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Decentric 2
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+x+x+x+xWelcome to the forum. i think youth development has improved iut of sight for u14 but then most get lost in the next crucial seven or so years a nsd will help. If the government can subsidize rego for kids that would help too Thanks, registration costs have to come down, and subsidised registrations would be a good idea. So registration costs are too high ? Do you happen to know by just how much registration costs have increased over the last , say , 4 years? Haven't kept up with this, but a family member mentioned she will be paying $800 for her 8-year-old to play soccer. In my mind, way too much. I'm absolutely shocked! The most expensive clubs I've known have been $400 for senior players at NPL level, and usually about $50 - 80 for juniors!
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LFC.
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+x+xThat rego $800 at that age must be SAP at least or an academy. no way will local club grass roots football cost that much. Playing in O45’s as I do is on $400. My 2 grown boys different matter NPL and SL different scale. Sure thread starter makes some good and known points - NSL foundations laid but upper management sucked at the same time they were pigeon holed and didn’t know how to break out. Clubs also were their own worst enemy but at least kept producing quality players. Pretty similar today - some are badly run AL Clubs But thankfully they and NPL have improved with the times of training development but we need both levels working as one to the bottom that I’m afraid may or may not happen. NSD up and running meant for 24 can’t come soon enough for its existence if showing what’s expected may force change in the future of a pyramid. We can’t keep having 2 separate comps looking ahead 10/20yrs, will maintain resistance between both forces. Note also arnie has quoted lots need to change and improve development wise. I remember seeing a prominent Brisbane club charging $800 for miniroos. Between $500 to $800 is your standard price. SAP is $2,000 +. It's a bit like education in our country we narrow the stream and are left with a smaller base and wonder why we cannot compete on an international standard. The vast majority of people who won't pay those prices are left out or moved to other sports. Any clown telling kids we'll turn you into a professional at 8 to 12 is either lying or misleading people. Need more people involved in the game not fewer. yes my error I jumped in too quick typing without thinking enough. Your right be miniroo - yer SAP 2K up..... All still too much and thats one of the big probs in our game at Jnr/Teen levels at NPL. Also when you end up being one of the regular starters at NPL getting into Snrs some players have their fees wavered by the Club (not talking about those being paid) and others wouldn't know and pay. Its all how valuable you are and not what you know who you know.
Love Football
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Barca4Life
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+x+xWe have come along way but also we have plenty to improve on as well. With an NSD coming in along with the DTS there is room for improvement to further grow. Hopefully we see more investment into the game especially in youth development and grassroots which will keep the momentum going too. AMEN to that. https://twitter.com/OptusSport/status/1598267426059100162 That's fantastic by Optus Sports.
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Razor Ramon
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+x+xIf the government can subsidize rego for kids that would help too Do you happen to know by just how much rego fees have increased over the last , say , 4 years ? What's the cost of the registration fees now days? $1000? , $1500? $2000?
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Bunch of Hacks
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+xIt's been nearly 20 years since the Crawford report (2003), was released, outlining how football in Australia needed to be reformed, and when I think about it, I think football in Australia has progressed quite well, although there are still many issues that need to be addressed. With the positives, since 2005, Australia has qualified for five successive World Cups, if someone told me prior to 2005, that Australia would qualify for the World Cup five times in a row, I'd think they were crazy. Putting Australia in the Asian confederation was the best decision ever made, although qualifying via Asia is harder, it's a much fairer system than the old Oceania route, where once the Socceroos breezed past the weak Oceania teams, it basically came down to, two very tough games against either a South American or European opponent (eg,Scotland in 1985). Also, playing against quality Asian teams will lift the standard of the Socceroos, I'd rather beat Japan 2-1, than some weak Oceania team by 10,20 nil etc. Although the A-League has had it issues (and still does), it's a massive improvement on the old NSL it replaced, for the first 10 odd years of the A-League the crowds were generally pretty good, even regular season matches like your local derbies (Sydney FC v Western Sydney Wanderers), were often sold out (this never happened in the NSL), and I recall attending a regular season match back in late 2016 between Sydney FC v WSW at the Olympic stadium and the attendance was 61,000. As for the negatives, junior development has been neglected, and the decision to scrap the football division of the old AIS (Australian Institute of Sport) has been a disaster, the AIS produced many great footballers, and I hope the management of Football Australia are seriously looking at issue of junior and elite player development. Another serious issue is the increasing cost of playing football for amateur players, the beauty of football is that it's working class man's sport that should relatively cheap to play, jacking up player registration costs will drive people away from football. And before the old NSL apologists start beating their chests on how "good" the old NSL supposedly was (some of it was OK, but it was mostly crap), FACTS don't give two shits about your feelings, the Socceroos never qualified for any WC during the 27 failed years the NSL (1977-2004), and the crowds were mostly pathetic (in terms of numbers,not the ethnicity). Just my 2c worth. Great first post and agree with all your points and add that Frank Lowy was responsible for nearly all of this yet his name is often the source of derision on this forum. The man should be held up as a hero! On top of all the above we successfully hosted an Asian Cup which we also won under his watch. WSW won the Asian Champions league and we have had household names play for our A league clubs including Del Piero, Yorke, Juninho, Heskey, Harry Kewell and now Nani - the NSL never attracted such names save a 40 yr Ian rush and Beardsley making a couple of guest appearances There have been mistakes inc the failed WC bid, almost all the expansion teams around 2009-10 inc Gold Coast, Nth Queensdland and the 'Heart'. The 2 next teams around that time to take things up a level and create genuine derby's should always have been Western Sydney and a S/E Melbourne! The way the FFA engaged all the stakeholders and the fans with the formation of WSW was absolutely perfect but it just should have happened earlier than it did instead of these other teams. The 'Heart' meanwhile stood for absolutely nothing and had no point of differentiaion vs Victory. The natural divide in Melbourne is North of the yarra vs South of the Yarra. Victory were already playing at Docklands too which is connected to the Northern and Western train lines, wheras AAMI park is connected to the Eastern and southern train lines. A smple name change and basing their training facilities out of say Dandenong or Monash Uni would have completely altered how that team ended up being viewed and wold have created a North of the yarra v South of the yarra rivalry. Youth development has largely been neglected too as ppl are pointing out. A fully professional and commercially successful national league (at least relative to the NSL) has meant that players have far less incentive to move overseas which reduces our national playing pool. Moreover we have less teams than the NSL and more foreign players again reducing our national pool. Coaches thus far in the history of the A league have been relatively reluctant to play youth instead recycling Matt Simon, Matt Thompson and Mitch Nicholls etc etc to club after club after club
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LFC.
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+x+xAnd before the old NSL apologists start beating their chests on how "good" the old NSL supposedly was (some of it was OK, but it was mostly crap), FACTS don't give two shits about your feelings, the Socceroos never qualified for any WC during the 27 failed years the NSL (1977-2004), and the crowds were mostly pathetic. Just my 2c worth. Feisty opening post from a newby. I think the major flaw in your argument is that Oz was trapped in Oceania during the entirety of the relevant period. This was also the period when FIFA went out of their way to make sure Israel couldn't make the WC Finals after what happened at the Munich Olympics (there may have been other Middle East political reasons also). Accordingly, they obliged Israel to play off against the Oceania champion, an arrangement to which we meekly submitted, and then forced the winner of that tie to play off against (usually) a Euro or Sth American superpower. This was because FIFA didn't give a fuck about Oceania but did not, under any circumstances want Israel at the finals. This meant we had little chance of qualifying, no matter how good our player pathways. In fact, the first time we qualified in 32 years was via Oceania in a playoff against Uruguay. This was the so-called Golden Generation, almost all of whom were bred and born in the NSL. The NSL made a huge contribution to Oz football and the many ethnic clubs that featured in the NSL kept the flickering flame of football alive in this country. It may have had its problems, much exacerbated by the anti-football media which feared (and continues to fear) the Sleeping Giant, but there's no denying the NSL produced some brilliant Socceroos. So yes, on many grounds, football has improved in the last 20 years but it could have been so much better. Hopefully we are at last on the brink of something really big. Your summary above is far more palatable than SR's on the NSL to me. Its not just about being in Oceania and FIFA not giving a toss obviously the local hurdles, be it bad management that I agree with but also the game not having much respect here in good ol boganville as it was and all the complexities behind the scenes. Another point he mentioned that I can't agree is having produced the GG and yours saying so - called. Give it a break like D2 plucking out all the negatives of players back then, ofcourse there is when your looking from a 2022 perspective. There was great legend players who were part timers long before the GG that might I add unlike the last 20yrs of travelling abroad to better Clubs wasn't the norm for the Warrens/Richards/Alston/Schaefer etc barring Baartz trialing with United for one. Its still amazing they made it in '74 under all the circumstances - how anyone bags out not making it for 32yrs being part timers and messed up local system/not much external support are taking the piss imo. Then he mentions about lack of crowds, well any derby I went to with the ol man was packed, APIA/Marconi/Cros v's Serbs (yes that got out of hand) playing the Greeks was packed like come on - no diff to today but in smaller grounds and then you had low numbers attending, obviously it had run its course and many couldn't agree on enything put forward, again the big issue not having a strong upper management. The failing NSL as a comp was/is our foundation that many many players put their bodies and livelyhood on the line for the love of the game more than anything else, I give huge kudos to them getting bugger all money, being dis repected by Joe Public and the bogan loving media. Warren such a spokesman as known and others, Arnie got his DNA from those days ( yes I'm talking up to the guys about the Aussie DNA through the cup) that now he's applauded finally having had so so so many against him, more so the newbie younger supporters but now he's welcomed with open arms lol....... Yes we have progressed due to coaching acuman and all that is available today being prepared game by game, we punched above our weight that makes a great storey and provides HOPE as long as this current weak FA finally get things in order below ALM levels for thats the breeding ground full stop. D2's analysis at times blows me away like quoting the Asian Cup flop of 07, we have been flops since 06 buddy, thankfully been matched and bettered in '22. There is a good saying when I read alot of your summary's and talking up of today, your ambition far outweighs your talent. Thats us right now riding on the high of the last couple of weeks.
Love Football
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Arthur
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+xIt's been nearly 20 years since the Crawford report (2003), was released, outlining how football in Australia needed to be reformed, and when I think about it, I think football in Australia has progressed quite well, although there are still many issues that need to be addressed. With the positives, since 2005, Australia has qualified for five successive World Cups, if someone told me prior to 2005, that Australia would qualify for the World Cup five times in a row, I'd think they were crazy. Putting Australia in the Asian confederation was the best decision ever made, although qualifying via Asia is harder, it's a much fairer system than the old Oceania route, where once the Socceroos breezed past the weak Oceania teams, it basically came down to, two very tough games against either a South American or European opponent (eg,Scotland in 1985). Also, playing against quality Asian teams will lift the standard of the Socceroos, I'd rather beat Japan 2-1, than some weak Oceania team by 10,20 nil etc. Although the A-League has had it issues (and still does), it's a massive improvement on the old NSL it replaced, for the first 10 odd years of the A-League the crowds were generally pretty good, even regular season matches like your local derbies (Sydney FC v Western Sydney Wanderers), were often sold out (this never happened in the NSL), and I recall attending a regular season match back in late 2016 between Sydney FC v WSW at the Olympic stadium and the attendance was 61,000. As for the negatives, junior development has been neglected, and the decision to scrap the football division of the old AIS (Australian Institute of Sport) has been a disaster, the AIS produced many great footballers, and I hope the management of Football Australia are seriously looking at issue of junior and elite player development. Another serious issue is the increasing cost of playing football for amateur players, the beauty of football is that it's working class man's sport that should relatively cheap to play, jacking up player registration costs will drive people away from football. And before the old NSL apologists start beating their chests on how "good" the old NSL supposedly was (some of it was OK, but it was mostly crap), FACTS don't give two shits about your feelings, the Socceroos never qualified for any WC during the 27 failed years the NSL (1977-2004), and the crowds were mostly pathetic (in terms of numbers,not the ethnicity). Just my 2c worth. Yes and No on balance. Simplistic view on WCup qualification, catch phrases such as NSL never qualified for a World Cup, which has more to do about Peter Hore than anything else. Simplistic view on NSL era, as is common with so many false narratives. Note the a major piece of the Crawford Report recommendations was that the NSL (the term for the first tier at the time) be run independently of the FFA. That took a political war to finally happen and changes in the FA Board. Ask questions, learn your history, happy to assist otherwise we have false narratives and the potential to repeat these errors. Welcome to forum.
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bettega
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Australian football is around the same place today as where it was in 1900.
The so-called progress is illusory.
The AFL has just signed a $4.5 billion deal, and the NRL will get the same when they next renew their broadcast deal.
A-League will continue to struggle trying to maintain a $50 mill per annum broadcast deal in real terms.
We're left constantly calling for more government money - as if government money can make up a $4.5 billion shortfall.
The truth is that we are no better off than where we were back in 1900.
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tsf
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Most popular sport in the country and growing. If you said that 30 years ago people would laugh.
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Monoethnic Social Club
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+xMost popular sport in the country and growing. If you said that 30 years ago people would laugh. We ALWAYS had a fairly high participation rate though......
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LFC.
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+x+xMost popular sport in the country and growing. If you said that 30 years ago people would laugh. We ALWAYS had a fairly high participation rate though......
Love Football
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grazorblade
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+x+xMost popular sport in the country and growing. If you said that 30 years ago people would laugh. We ALWAYS had a fairly high participation rate though...... Speaking of which im curious about the trend. Is there a plot available for participation over time. i hear football surged over the last twenty years
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SR1968
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+x+x+xAnd before the old NSL apologists start beating their chests on how "good" the old NSL supposedly was (some of it was OK, but it was mostly crap), FACTS don't give two shits about your feelings, the Socceroos never qualified for any WC during the 27 failed years the NSL (1977-2004), and the crowds were mostly pathetic. Just my 2c worth. Feisty opening post from a newby. I think the major flaw in your argument is that Oz was trapped in Oceania during the entirety of the relevant period. This was also the period when FIFA went out of their way to make sure Israel couldn't make the WC Finals after what happened at the Munich Olympics (there may have been other Middle East political reasons also). Accordingly, they obliged Israel to play off against the Oceania champion, an arrangement to which we meekly submitted, and then forced the winner of that tie to play off against (usually) a Euro or Sth American superpower. This was because FIFA didn't give a fuck about Oceania but did not, under any circumstances want Israel at the finals. This meant we had little chance of qualifying, no matter how good our player pathways. In fact, the first time we qualified in 32 years was via Oceania in a playoff against Uruguay. This was the so-called Golden Generation, almost all of whom were bred and born in the NSL. The NSL made a huge contribution to Oz football and the many ethnic clubs that featured in the NSL kept the flickering flame of football alive in this country. It may have had its problems, much exacerbated by the anti-football media which feared (and continues to fear) the Sleeping Giant, but there's no denying the NSL produced some brilliant Socceroos. So yes, on many grounds, football has improved in the last 20 years but it could have been so much better. Hopefully we are at last on the brink of something really big. Your summary above is far more palatable than SR's on the NSL to me. Its not just about being in Oceania and FIFA not giving a toss obviously the local hurdles, be it bad management that I agree with but also the game not having much respect here in good ol boganville as it was and all the complexities behind the scenes. Another point he mentioned that I can't agree is having produced the GG and yours saying so - called. Give it a break like D2 plucking out all the negatives of players back then, ofcourse there is when your looking from a 2022 perspective. There was great legend players who were part timers long before the GG that might I add unlike the last 20yrs of travelling abroad to better Clubs wasn't the norm for the Warrens/Richards/Alston/Schaefer etc barring Baartz trialing with United for one. Its still amazing they made it in '74 under all the circumstances - how anyone bags out not making it for 32yrs being part timers and messed up local system/not much external support are taking the piss imo. Then he mentions about lack of crowds, well any derby I went to with the ol man was packed, APIA/Marconi/Cros v's Serbs (yes that got out of hand) playing the Greeks was packed like come on - no diff to today but in smaller grounds and then you had low numbers attending, obviously it had run its course and many couldn't agree on enything put forward, again the big issue not having a strong upper management. The failing NSL as a comp was/is our foundation that many many players put their bodies and livelyhood on the line for the love of the game more than anything else, I give huge kudos to them getting bugger all money, being dis repected by Joe Public and the bogan loving media. Warren such a spokesman as known and others, Arnie got his DNA from those days ( yes I'm talking up to the guys about the Aussie DNA through the cup) that now he's applauded finally having had so so so many against him, more so the newbie younger supporters but now he's welcomed with open arms lol....... Yes we have progressed due to coaching acuman and all that is available today being prepared game by game, we punched above our weight that makes a great storey and provides HOPE as long as this current weak FA finally get things in order below ALM levels for thats the breeding ground full stop. D2's analysis at times blows me away like quoting the Asian Cup flop of 07, we have been flops since 06 buddy, thankfully been matched and bettered in '22. There is a good saying when I read alot of your summary's and talking up of today, your ambition far outweighs your talent. Thats us right now riding on the high of the last couple of weeks. I make no apologies for my scathing attack on the old NSL, and I say that as someone who loyally followed the NSL from 1977 to 2000, when I then gave up on the NSL, because it was as clear as day, that it was dying a slow and painful death. To be fair some of the NSL was OK, and there were some good teams that were worth paying money to see eg, Adelaide City, South Melbourne Hellas, Marconi (late 80's, early 90's), Sydney Olympic,Perth Glory, Sydney/Melbourne Croatia. But lets be brutally honest, football back then was the WORST run sport in Australia by a country mile (at all levels ie.ASF and SA), and like I said in one of my previous replies, some of my Greek-Australian friends who were mad Sydney Olympic fans would often tell me how appalled at how badly their club was run, as myself an Italian-Australian, I was just as appalled at how badly Apia and Marconi were, although in fairness to Marconi they were in some financial trouble but they have turned that around, and they have a great social club (I recently ate there and the food was great, and the club has been renovated and it's a nice place to visit). As for APIA, if that club was run by people who actually knew what they were doing, they could have been one of the most successful licensed clubs in New South Wales, but it wasn't, and it went broke. I'm sorry but the NSL crowd numbers were for the most part poor, yeah sure the odd ethnic/local derbies often got crowds over 10K, and some of the NSL grand finals were sell outs or close to them, but the A-League crowds (between 2005-2017), dwarf those of the old NSL (Sydney FC v WSW local derbies often got sold out crowds of between 20K (if played at the old Paramatta Stadium), and 40K (when played at the old SFS), in October 2016, when Sydney FC played WSW at the Olympic Stadium at Homebush, the attendance was 61K (a regular game), the old NSL couldn't get anywhere near those numbers, even for the NSL Grand Finals (from memory the biggest NSL Grand Final attendance was around 43K Perth Glory v Sydney Olympic at Subiaco Oval in Perth, WA). I understand and appreciate that there is still a "sheilas, wogs and poofters" bogan mentality to football, and that the bogan media (which I don't watch anymore, in fact I stopped watching TV, except for football more than ten years ago), hates football (especially the AFL loving channel 7), but it has to be said that football in Australia now is in a much better place than what it was prior to 2005.
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SR1968
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+xMost popular sport in the country and growing. If you said that 30 years ago people would laugh. True, but how do we get those huge numbers of mostly amateur players to attend A-League matches?
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SR1968
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+xAustralian football is around the same place today as where it was in 1900. The so-called progress is illusory. The AFL has just signed a $4.5 billion deal, and the NRL will get the same when they next renew their broadcast deal. A-League will continue to struggle trying to maintain a $50 mill per annum broadcast deal in real terms. We're left constantly calling for more government money - as if government money can make up a $4.5 billion shortfall. The truth is that we are no better off than where we were back in 1900. You're 100% correct with regards to the massive amounts of money both the AFL and NRL receive (in terms of TV money), in comparison to football, but to suggest that football in Australia is in the same place where it was in 1900 is ridiculous (Australia was a much different nation 122 years ago). I'm sorry, but Australia has progressed in Football, prior to 2005, the Socceroos couldn't qualify for a World Cup if their lives depended on it (except 1974), and now we have qualified for 5 in a row, how is that not progress?
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Monoethnic Social Club
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+x+x+x+xAnd before the old NSL apologists start beating their chests on how "good" the old NSL supposedly was (some of it was OK, but it was mostly crap), FACTS don't give two shits about your feelings, the Socceroos never qualified for any WC during the 27 failed years the NSL (1977-2004), and the crowds were mostly pathetic. Just my 2c worth. Feisty opening post from a newby. I think the major flaw in your argument is that Oz was trapped in Oceania during the entirety of the relevant period. This was also the period when FIFA went out of their way to make sure Israel couldn't make the WC Finals after what happened at the Munich Olympics (there may have been other Middle East political reasons also). Accordingly, they obliged Israel to play off against the Oceania champion, an arrangement to which we meekly submitted, and then forced the winner of that tie to play off against (usually) a Euro or Sth American superpower. This was because FIFA didn't give a fuck about Oceania but did not, under any circumstances want Israel at the finals. This meant we had little chance of qualifying, no matter how good our player pathways. In fact, the first time we qualified in 32 years was via Oceania in a playoff against Uruguay. This was the so-called Golden Generation, almost all of whom were bred and born in the NSL. The NSL made a huge contribution to Oz football and the many ethnic clubs that featured in the NSL kept the flickering flame of football alive in this country. It may have had its problems, much exacerbated by the anti-football media which feared (and continues to fear) the Sleeping Giant, but there's no denying the NSL produced some brilliant Socceroos. So yes, on many grounds, football has improved in the last 20 years but it could have been so much better. Hopefully we are at last on the brink of something really big. Your summary above is far more palatable than SR's on the NSL to me. Its not just about being in Oceania and FIFA not giving a toss obviously the local hurdles, be it bad management that I agree with but also the game not having much respect here in good ol boganville as it was and all the complexities behind the scenes. Another point he mentioned that I can't agree is having produced the GG and yours saying so - called. Give it a break like D2 plucking out all the negatives of players back then, ofcourse there is when your looking from a 2022 perspective. There was great legend players who were part timers long before the GG that might I add unlike the last 20yrs of travelling abroad to better Clubs wasn't the norm for the Warrens/Richards/Alston/Schaefer etc barring Baartz trialing with United for one. Its still amazing they made it in '74 under all the circumstances - how anyone bags out not making it for 32yrs being part timers and messed up local system/not much external support are taking the piss imo. Then he mentions about lack of crowds, well any derby I went to with the ol man was packed, APIA/Marconi/Cros v's Serbs (yes that got out of hand) playing the Greeks was packed like come on - no diff to today but in smaller grounds and then you had low numbers attending, obviously it had run its course and many couldn't agree on enything put forward, again the big issue not having a strong upper management. The failing NSL as a comp was/is our foundation that many many players put their bodies and livelyhood on the line for the love of the game more than anything else, I give huge kudos to them getting bugger all money, being dis repected by Joe Public and the bogan loving media. Warren such a spokesman as known and others, Arnie got his DNA from those days ( yes I'm talking up to the guys about the Aussie DNA through the cup) that now he's applauded finally having had so so so many against him, more so the newbie younger supporters but now he's welcomed with open arms lol....... Yes we have progressed due to coaching acuman and all that is available today being prepared game by game, we punched above our weight that makes a great storey and provides HOPE as long as this current weak FA finally get things in order below ALM levels for thats the breeding ground full stop. D2's analysis at times blows me away like quoting the Asian Cup flop of 07, we have been flops since 06 buddy, thankfully been matched and bettered in '22. There is a good saying when I read alot of your summary's and talking up of today, your ambition far outweighs your talent. Thats us right now riding on the high of the last couple of weeks. I make no apologies for my scathing attack on the old NSL, and I say that as someone who loyally followed the NSL from 1977 to 2000, when I then gave up on the NSL, because it was as clear as day, that it was dying a slow and painful death. To be fair some of the NSL was OK, and there were some good teams that were worth paying money to see eg, Adelaide City, South Melbourne Hellas, Marconi (late 80's, early 90's), Sydney Olympic,Perth Glory, Sydney/Melbourne Croatia. But lets be brutally honest, football back then was the WORST run sport in Australia by a country mile (at all levels ie.ASF and SA), and like I said in one of my previous replies, some of my Greek-Australian friends who were mad Sydney Olympic fans would often tell me how appalled at how badly their club was run, as myself an Italian-Australian, I was just as appalled at how badly Apia and Marconi were, although in fairness to Marconi they were in some financial trouble but they have turned that around, and they have a great social club (I recently ate there and the food was great, and the club has been renovated and it's a nice place to visit). As for APIA, if that club was run by people who actually knew what they were doing, they could have been one of the most successful licensed clubs in New South Wales, but it wasn't, and it went broke. I'm sorry but the NSL crowd numbers were for the most part poor, yeah sure the odd ethnic/local derbies often got crowds over 10K, and some of the NSL grand finals were sell outs or close to them, but the A-League crowds (between 2005-2017), dwarf those of the old NSL (Sydney FC v WSW local derbies often got sold out crowds of between 20K (if played at the old Paramatta Stadium), and 40K (when played at the old SFS), in October 2016, when Sydney FC played WSW at the Olympic Stadium at Homebush, the attendance was 61K (a regular game), the old NSL couldn't get anywhere near those numbers, even for the NSL Grand Finals (from memory the biggest NSL Grand Final attendance was around 43K Perth Glory v Sydney Olympic at Subiaco Oval in Perth, WA). I understand and appreciate that there is still a "sheilas, wogs and poofters" bogan mentality to football, and that the bogan media (which I don't watch anymore, in fact I stopped watching TV, except for football more than ten years ago), hates football (especially the AFL loving channel 7), but it has to be said that football in Australia now is in a much better place than what it was prior to 2005. Sure, as long as you are not one of the "old soccer" crowd.....
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SR1968
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+x+x+x+x+xAnd before the old NSL apologists start beating their chests on how "good" the old NSL supposedly was (some of it was OK, but it was mostly crap), FACTS don't give two shits about your feelings, the Socceroos never qualified for any WC during the 27 failed years the NSL (1977-2004), and the crowds were mostly pathetic. Just my 2c worth. Feisty opening post from a newby. I think the major flaw in your argument is that Oz was trapped in Oceania during the entirety of the relevant period. This was also the period when FIFA went out of their way to make sure Israel couldn't make the WC Finals after what happened at the Munich Olympics (there may have been other Middle East political reasons also). Accordingly, they obliged Israel to play off against the Oceania champion, an arrangement to which we meekly submitted, and then forced the winner of that tie to play off against (usually) a Euro or Sth American superpower. This was because FIFA didn't give a fuck about Oceania but did not, under any circumstances want Israel at the finals. This meant we had little chance of qualifying, no matter how good our player pathways. In fact, the first time we qualified in 32 years was via Oceania in a playoff against Uruguay. This was the so-called Golden Generation, almost all of whom were bred and born in the NSL. The NSL made a huge contribution to Oz football and the many ethnic clubs that featured in the NSL kept the flickering flame of football alive in this country. It may have had its problems, much exacerbated by the anti-football media which feared (and continues to fear) the Sleeping Giant, but there's no denying the NSL produced some brilliant Socceroos. So yes, on many grounds, football has improved in the last 20 years but it could have been so much better. Hopefully we are at last on the brink of something really big. Your summary above is far more palatable than SR's on the NSL to me. Its not just about being in Oceania and FIFA not giving a toss obviously the local hurdles, be it bad management that I agree with but also the game not having much respect here in good ol boganville as it was and all the complexities behind the scenes. Another point he mentioned that I can't agree is having produced the GG and yours saying so - called. Give it a break like D2 plucking out all the negatives of players back then, ofcourse there is when your looking from a 2022 perspective. There was great legend players who were part timers long before the GG that might I add unlike the last 20yrs of travelling abroad to better Clubs wasn't the norm for the Warrens/Richards/Alston/Schaefer etc barring Baartz trialing with United for one. Its still amazing they made it in '74 under all the circumstances - how anyone bags out not making it for 32yrs being part timers and messed up local system/not much external support are taking the piss imo. Then he mentions about lack of crowds, well any derby I went to with the ol man was packed, APIA/Marconi/Cros v's Serbs (yes that got out of hand) playing the Greeks was packed like come on - no diff to today but in smaller grounds and then you had low numbers attending, obviously it had run its course and many couldn't agree on enything put forward, again the big issue not having a strong upper management. The failing NSL as a comp was/is our foundation that many many players put their bodies and livelyhood on the line for the love of the game more than anything else, I give huge kudos to them getting bugger all money, being dis repected by Joe Public and the bogan loving media. Warren such a spokesman as known and others, Arnie got his DNA from those days ( yes I'm talking up to the guys about the Aussie DNA through the cup) that now he's applauded finally having had so so so many against him, more so the newbie younger supporters but now he's welcomed with open arms lol....... Yes we have progressed due to coaching acuman and all that is available today being prepared game by game, we punched above our weight that makes a great storey and provides HOPE as long as this current weak FA finally get things in order below ALM levels for thats the breeding ground full stop. D2's analysis at times blows me away like quoting the Asian Cup flop of 07, we have been flops since 06 buddy, thankfully been matched and bettered in '22. There is a good saying when I read alot of your summary's and talking up of today, your ambition far outweighs your talent. Thats us right now riding on the high of the last couple of weeks. I make no apologies for my scathing attack on the old NSL, and I say that as someone who loyally followed the NSL from 1977 to 2000, when I then gave up on the NSL, because it was as clear as day, that it was dying a slow and painful death. To be fair some of the NSL was OK, and there were some good teams that were worth paying money to see eg, Adelaide City, South Melbourne Hellas, Marconi (late 80's, early 90's), Sydney Olympic,Perth Glory, Sydney/Melbourne Croatia. But lets be brutally honest, football back then was the WORST run sport in Australia by a country mile (at all levels ie.ASF and SA), and like I said in one of my previous replies, some of my Greek-Australian friends who were mad Sydney Olympic fans would often tell me how appalled at how badly their club was run, as myself an Italian-Australian, I was just as appalled at how badly Apia and Marconi were, although in fairness to Marconi they were in some financial trouble but they have turned that around, and they have a great social club (I recently ate there and the food was great, and the club has been renovated and it's a nice place to visit). As for APIA, if that club was run by people who actually knew what they were doing, they could have been one of the most successful licensed clubs in New South Wales, but it wasn't, and it went broke. I'm sorry but the NSL crowd numbers were for the most part poor, yeah sure the odd ethnic/local derbies often got crowds over 10K, and some of the NSL grand finals were sell outs or close to them, but the A-League crowds (between 2005-2017), dwarf those of the old NSL (Sydney FC v WSW local derbies often got sold out crowds of between 20K (if played at the old Paramatta Stadium), and 40K (when played at the old SFS), in October 2016, when Sydney FC played WSW at the Olympic Stadium at Homebush, the attendance was 61K (a regular game), the old NSL couldn't get anywhere near those numbers, even for the NSL Grand Finals (from memory the biggest NSL Grand Final attendance was around 43K Perth Glory v Sydney Olympic at Subiaco Oval in Perth, WA). I understand and appreciate that there is still a "sheilas, wogs and poofters" bogan mentality to football, and that the bogan media (which I don't watch anymore, in fact I stopped watching TV, except for football more than ten years ago), hates football (especially the AFL loving channel 7), but it has to be said that football in Australia now is in a much better place than what it was prior to 2005. Sure, as long as you are not one of the "old soccer" crowd..... No, I'm someone that loves football and just wants to see it grow in Australia.
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Monoethnic Social Club
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+x+xMost popular sport in the country and growing. If you said that 30 years ago people would laugh. True, but how do we get those huge numbers of mostly amateur players to attend A-League matches? Why would you want them to? As long as they are playing some form of football and follow some sort of football locally, why specifically do they have to attend the league also?Why worry about the ROI of 11 franchises? To what end?
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Monoethnic Social Club
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+x+x+x+x+x+xAnd before the old NSL apologists start beating their chests on how "good" the old NSL supposedly was (some of it was OK, but it was mostly crap), FACTS don't give two shits about your feelings, the Socceroos never qualified for any WC during the 27 failed years the NSL (1977-2004), and the crowds were mostly pathetic. Just my 2c worth. Feisty opening post from a newby. I think the major flaw in your argument is that Oz was trapped in Oceania during the entirety of the relevant period. This was also the period when FIFA went out of their way to make sure Israel couldn't make the WC Finals after what happened at the Munich Olympics (there may have been other Middle East political reasons also). Accordingly, they obliged Israel to play off against the Oceania champion, an arrangement to which we meekly submitted, and then forced the winner of that tie to play off against (usually) a Euro or Sth American superpower. This was because FIFA didn't give a fuck about Oceania but did not, under any circumstances want Israel at the finals. This meant we had little chance of qualifying, no matter how good our player pathways. In fact, the first time we qualified in 32 years was via Oceania in a playoff against Uruguay. This was the so-called Golden Generation, almost all of whom were bred and born in the NSL. The NSL made a huge contribution to Oz football and the many ethnic clubs that featured in the NSL kept the flickering flame of football alive in this country. It may have had its problems, much exacerbated by the anti-football media which feared (and continues to fear) the Sleeping Giant, but there's no denying the NSL produced some brilliant Socceroos. So yes, on many grounds, football has improved in the last 20 years but it could have been so much better. Hopefully we are at last on the brink of something really big. Your summary above is far more palatable than SR's on the NSL to me. Its not just about being in Oceania and FIFA not giving a toss obviously the local hurdles, be it bad management that I agree with but also the game not having much respect here in good ol boganville as it was and all the complexities behind the scenes. Another point he mentioned that I can't agree is having produced the GG and yours saying so - called. Give it a break like D2 plucking out all the negatives of players back then, ofcourse there is when your looking from a 2022 perspective. There was great legend players who were part timers long before the GG that might I add unlike the last 20yrs of travelling abroad to better Clubs wasn't the norm for the Warrens/Richards/Alston/Schaefer etc barring Baartz trialing with United for one. Its still amazing they made it in '74 under all the circumstances - how anyone bags out not making it for 32yrs being part timers and messed up local system/not much external support are taking the piss imo. Then he mentions about lack of crowds, well any derby I went to with the ol man was packed, APIA/Marconi/Cros v's Serbs (yes that got out of hand) playing the Greeks was packed like come on - no diff to today but in smaller grounds and then you had low numbers attending, obviously it had run its course and many couldn't agree on enything put forward, again the big issue not having a strong upper management. The failing NSL as a comp was/is our foundation that many many players put their bodies and livelyhood on the line for the love of the game more than anything else, I give huge kudos to them getting bugger all money, being dis repected by Joe Public and the bogan loving media. Warren such a spokesman as known and others, Arnie got his DNA from those days ( yes I'm talking up to the guys about the Aussie DNA through the cup) that now he's applauded finally having had so so so many against him, more so the newbie younger supporters but now he's welcomed with open arms lol....... Yes we have progressed due to coaching acuman and all that is available today being prepared game by game, we punched above our weight that makes a great storey and provides HOPE as long as this current weak FA finally get things in order below ALM levels for thats the breeding ground full stop. D2's analysis at times blows me away like quoting the Asian Cup flop of 07, we have been flops since 06 buddy, thankfully been matched and bettered in '22. There is a good saying when I read alot of your summary's and talking up of today, your ambition far outweighs your talent. Thats us right now riding on the high of the last couple of weeks. I make no apologies for my scathing attack on the old NSL, and I say that as someone who loyally followed the NSL from 1977 to 2000, when I then gave up on the NSL, because it was as clear as day, that it was dying a slow and painful death. To be fair some of the NSL was OK, and there were some good teams that were worth paying money to see eg, Adelaide City, South Melbourne Hellas, Marconi (late 80's, early 90's), Sydney Olympic,Perth Glory, Sydney/Melbourne Croatia. But lets be brutally honest, football back then was the WORST run sport in Australia by a country mile (at all levels ie.ASF and SA), and like I said in one of my previous replies, some of my Greek-Australian friends who were mad Sydney Olympic fans would often tell me how appalled at how badly their club was run, as myself an Italian-Australian, I was just as appalled at how badly Apia and Marconi were, although in fairness to Marconi they were in some financial trouble but they have turned that around, and they have a great social club (I recently ate there and the food was great, and the club has been renovated and it's a nice place to visit). As for APIA, if that club was run by people who actually knew what they were doing, they could have been one of the most successful licensed clubs in New South Wales, but it wasn't, and it went broke. I'm sorry but the NSL crowd numbers were for the most part poor, yeah sure the odd ethnic/local derbies often got crowds over 10K, and some of the NSL grand finals were sell outs or close to them, but the A-League crowds (between 2005-2017), dwarf those of the old NSL (Sydney FC v WSW local derbies often got sold out crowds of between 20K (if played at the old Paramatta Stadium), and 40K (when played at the old SFS), in October 2016, when Sydney FC played WSW at the Olympic Stadium at Homebush, the attendance was 61K (a regular game), the old NSL couldn't get anywhere near those numbers, even for the NSL Grand Finals (from memory the biggest NSL Grand Final attendance was around 43K Perth Glory v Sydney Olympic at Subiaco Oval in Perth, WA). I understand and appreciate that there is still a "sheilas, wogs and poofters" bogan mentality to football, and that the bogan media (which I don't watch anymore, in fact I stopped watching TV, except for football more than ten years ago), hates football (especially the AFL loving channel 7), but it has to be said that football in Australia now is in a much better place than what it was prior to 2005. Sure, as long as you are not one of the "old soccer" crowd..... No, I'm someone that loves football and just wants to see it grow in Australia. Just "football" as some sort of abstract concept? Do you not have a club you follow?
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Remote Control
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+x+xAustralian football is around the same place today as where it was in 1900. The so-called progress is illusory. The AFL has just signed a $4.5 billion deal, and the NRL will get the same when they next renew their broadcast deal. A-League will continue to struggle trying to maintain a $50 mill per annum broadcast deal in real terms. We're left constantly calling for more government money - as if government money can make up a $4.5 billion shortfall. The truth is that we are no better off than where we were back in 1900. ... Australia has progressed in Football, prior to 2005, the Socceroos couldn't qualify for a World Cup if their lives depended on it (except 1974), and now we have qualified for 5 in a row, how is that not progress? It' s quite incredible , isn' t it ? FIVE consecutive World Cup qualifications , after all those years of failure . I wonder what changed ?
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Monoethnic Social Club
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+x+x+xAustralian football is around the same place today as where it was in 1900. The so-called progress is illusory. The AFL has just signed a $4.5 billion deal, and the NRL will get the same when they next renew their broadcast deal. A-League will continue to struggle trying to maintain a $50 mill per annum broadcast deal in real terms. We're left constantly calling for more government money - as if government money can make up a $4.5 billion shortfall. The truth is that we are no better off than where we were back in 1900. ... Australia has progressed in Football, prior to 2005, the Socceroos couldn't qualify for a World Cup if their lives depended on it (except 1974), and now we have qualified for 5 in a row, how is that not progress? It' s quite incredible , isn' t it ? FIVE consecutive World Cup qualifications , after all those years of failure . I wonder what changed ? Go back to the SR1968 persona Paulie, those etch-a-sketch posts are so hard to read sometimes...
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hahahaha444
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Everyone gets excited around the world cup. We have not progressed at all.
Football in Australia is being held back by its own people for a reason. It is the world game and number one in most countries in the world.
I still remember going to exciting NSL games and then reading about a riot on Monday morning at the same game which I must have missed somehow.
If we want to compare the NSL and The A League - lets put them on a level playing field first. Take away the TV coverage, throw in weekly negative biased media and then we can talk.
Its nice to get excited, but until we address the real issues that killed the NSL and continue to hold the world game (loved in every country except here for some reason) and bring in people not afraid to go up against the AFL etc.
Lowy said all the right things, removed the big bad NSL and had a 5 year plan, which became a 10 year plan, and now its been 18 years with nothing to show for it. Who can we blame now?
There is more going on behind the scenes than anyone would care to address or even mention.
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PGR
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+xEveryone gets excited around the world cup. We have not progressed at all. Football in Australia is being held back by its own people for a reason. It is the world game and number one in most countries in the world. I still remember going to exciting NSL games and then reading about a riot on Monday morning at the same game which I must have missed somehow. If we want to compare the NSL and The A League - lets put them on a level playing field first. Take away the TV coverage, throw in weekly negative biased media and then we can talk. Its nice to get excited, but until we address the real issues that killed the NSL and continue to hold the world game (loved in every country except here for some reason) and bring in people not afraid to go up against the AFL etc. Lowy said all the right things, removed the big bad NSL and had a 5 year plan, which became a 10 year plan, and now its been 18 years with nothing to show for it. Who can we blame now? There is more going on behind the scenes than anyone would care to address or even mention. Good try Mono, "hahahahahahaha"
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Footyball
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+x+x+x+xAnd before the old NSL apologists start beating their chests on how "good" the old NSL supposedly was (some of it was OK, but it was mostly crap), FACTS don't give two shits about your feelings, the Socceroos never qualified for any WC during the 27 failed years the NSL (1977-2004), and the crowds were mostly pathetic. Just my 2c worth. Feisty opening post from a newby. I think the major flaw in your argument is that Oz was trapped in Oceania during the entirety of the relevant period. This was also the period when FIFA went out of their way to make sure Israel couldn't make the WC Finals after what happened at the Munich Olympics (there may have been other Middle East political reasons also). Accordingly, they obliged Israel to play off against the Oceania champion, an arrangement to which we meekly submitted, and then forced the winner of that tie to play off against (usually) a Euro or Sth American superpower. This was because FIFA didn't give a fuck about Oceania but did not, under any circumstances want Israel at the finals. This meant we had little chance of qualifying, no matter how good our player pathways. In fact, the first time we qualified in 32 years was via Oceania in a playoff against Uruguay. This was the so-called Golden Generation, almost all of whom were bred and born in the NSL. The NSL made a huge contribution to Oz football and the many ethnic clubs that featured in the NSL kept the flickering flame of football alive in this country. It may have had its problems, much exacerbated by the anti-football media which feared (and continues to fear) the Sleeping Giant, but there's no denying the NSL produced some brilliant Socceroos. So yes, on many grounds, football has improved in the last 20 years but it could have been so much better. Hopefully we are at last on the brink of something really big. Your summary above is far more palatable than SR's on the NSL to me. Its not just about being in Oceania and FIFA not giving a toss obviously the local hurdles, be it bad management that I agree with but also the game not having much respect here in good ol boganville as it was and all the complexities behind the scenes. Another point he mentioned that I can't agree is having produced the GG and yours saying so - called. Give it a break like D2 plucking out all the negatives of players back then, ofcourse there is when your looking from a 2022 perspective. There was great legend players who were part timers long before the GG that might I add unlike the last 20yrs of travelling abroad to better Clubs wasn't the norm for the Warrens/Richards/Alston/Schaefer etc barring Baartz trialing with United for one. Its still amazing they made it in '74 under all the circumstances - how anyone bags out not making it for 32yrs being part timers and messed up local system/not much external support are taking the piss imo. Then he mentions about lack of crowds, well any derby I went to with the ol man was packed, APIA/Marconi/Cros v's Serbs (yes that got out of hand) playing the Greeks was packed like come on - no diff to today but in smaller grounds and then you had low numbers attending, obviously it had run its course and many couldn't agree on enything put forward, again the big issue not having a strong upper management. The failing NSL as a comp was/is our foundation that many many players put their bodies and livelyhood on the line for the love of the game more than anything else, I give huge kudos to them getting bugger all money, being dis repected by Joe Public and the bogan loving media. Warren such a spokesman as known and others, Arnie got his DNA from those days ( yes I'm talking up to the guys about the Aussie DNA through the cup) that now he's applauded finally having had so so so many against him, more so the newbie younger supporters but now he's welcomed with open arms lol....... Yes we have progressed due to coaching acuman and all that is available today being prepared game by game, we punched above our weight that makes a great storey and provides HOPE as long as this current weak FA finally get things in order below ALM levels for thats the breeding ground full stop. D2's analysis at times blows me away like quoting the Asian Cup flop of 07, we have been flops since 06 buddy, thankfully been matched and bettered in '22. There is a good saying when I read alot of your summary's and talking up of today, your ambition far outweighs your talent. Thats us right now riding on the high of the last couple of weeks. I make no apologies for my scathing attack on the old NSL, and I say that as someone who loyally followed the NSL from 1977 to 2000, when I then gave up on the NSL, because it was as clear as day, that it was dying a slow and painful death. To be fair some of the NSL was OK, and there were some good teams that were worth paying money to see eg, Adelaide City, South Melbourne Hellas, Marconi (late 80's, early 90's), Sydney Olympic,Perth Glory, Sydney/Melbourne Croatia. But lets be brutally honest, football back then was the WORST run sport in Australia by a country mile (at all levels ie.ASF and SA), and like I said in one of my previous replies, some of my Greek-Australian friends who were mad Sydney Olympic fans would often tell me how appalled at how badly their club was run, as myself an Italian-Australian, I was just as appalled at how badly Apia and Marconi were, although in fairness to Marconi they were in some financial trouble but they have turned that around, and they have a great social club (I recently ate there and the food was great, and the club has been renovated and it's a nice place to visit). As for APIA, if that club was run by people who actually knew what they were doing, they could have been one of the most successful licensed clubs in New South Wales, but it wasn't, and it went broke. I'm sorry but the NSL crowd numbers were for the most part poor, yeah sure the odd ethnic/local derbies often got crowds over 10K, and some of the NSL grand finals were sell outs or close to them, but the A-League crowds (between 2005-2017), dwarf those of the old NSL (Sydney FC v WSW local derbies often got sold out crowds of between 20K (if played at the old Paramatta Stadium), and 40K (when played at the old SFS), in October 2016, when Sydney FC played WSW at the Olympic Stadium at Homebush, the attendance was 61K (a regular game), the old NSL couldn't get anywhere near those numbers, even for the NSL Grand Finals (from memory the biggest NSL Grand Final attendance was around 43K Perth Glory v Sydney Olympic at Subiaco Oval in Perth, WA). I understand and appreciate that there is still a "sheilas, wogs and poofters" bogan mentality to football, and that the bogan media (which I don't watch anymore, in fact I stopped watching TV, except for football more than ten years ago), hates football (especially the AFL loving channel 7), but it has to be said that football in Australia now is in a much better place than what it was prior to 2005. All of what you say is true but, there are fans out there that don't support ALeague teams, but they support they're former NSL teams. They're family members supported them and there is a historical significance associated with these teams with history. Why would the establishment exclude the better run clubs like South Melbourne, Apia and Sydney/Melbourne UTD from a chance to 'participate?' The politicians that run FA/Apl need to start respecting Australian football/soccer alot more by becoming inclusive and have your newer teams as well, they are not at fault with any exclusions.
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Remote Control
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+x+xMost popular sport in the country and growing. If you said that 30 years ago people would laugh. True, but how do we get those huge numbers of mostly amateur players to attend A-League matches? Well , you see , there' s this amazing new website called " KeepUp " .. .
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PGR
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+x+x+x+x+xAnd before the old NSL apologists start beating their chests on how "good" the old NSL supposedly was (some of it was OK, but it was mostly crap), FACTS don't give two shits about your feelings, the Socceroos never qualified for any WC during the 27 failed years the NSL (1977-2004), and the crowds were mostly pathetic. Just my 2c worth. Feisty opening post from a newby. I think the major flaw in your argument is that Oz was trapped in Oceania during the entirety of the relevant period. This was also the period when FIFA went out of their way to make sure Israel couldn't make the WC Finals after what happened at the Munich Olympics (there may have been other Middle East political reasons also). Accordingly, they obliged Israel to play off against the Oceania champion, an arrangement to which we meekly submitted, and then forced the winner of that tie to play off against (usually) a Euro or Sth American superpower. This was because FIFA didn't give a fuck about Oceania but did not, under any circumstances want Israel at the finals. This meant we had little chance of qualifying, no matter how good our player pathways. In fact, the first time we qualified in 32 years was via Oceania in a playoff against Uruguay. This was the so-called Golden Generation, almost all of whom were bred and born in the NSL. The NSL made a huge contribution to Oz football and the many ethnic clubs that featured in the NSL kept the flickering flame of football alive in this country. It may have had its problems, much exacerbated by the anti-football media which feared (and continues to fear) the Sleeping Giant, but there's no denying the NSL produced some brilliant Socceroos. So yes, on many grounds, football has improved in the last 20 years but it could have been so much better. Hopefully we are at last on the brink of something really big. Your summary above is far more palatable than SR's on the NSL to me. Its not just about being in Oceania and FIFA not giving a toss obviously the local hurdles, be it bad management that I agree with but also the game not having much respect here in good ol boganville as it was and all the complexities behind the scenes. Another point he mentioned that I can't agree is having produced the GG and yours saying so - called. Give it a break like D2 plucking out all the negatives of players back then, ofcourse there is when your looking from a 2022 perspective. There was great legend players who were part timers long before the GG that might I add unlike the last 20yrs of travelling abroad to better Clubs wasn't the norm for the Warrens/Richards/Alston/Schaefer etc barring Baartz trialing with United for one. Its still amazing they made it in '74 under all the circumstances - how anyone bags out not making it for 32yrs being part timers and messed up local system/not much external support are taking the piss imo. Then he mentions about lack of crowds, well any derby I went to with the ol man was packed, APIA/Marconi/Cros v's Serbs (yes that got out of hand) playing the Greeks was packed like come on - no diff to today but in smaller grounds and then you had low numbers attending, obviously it had run its course and many couldn't agree on enything put forward, again the big issue not having a strong upper management. The failing NSL as a comp was/is our foundation that many many players put their bodies and livelyhood on the line for the love of the game more than anything else, I give huge kudos to them getting bugger all money, being dis repected by Joe Public and the bogan loving media. Warren such a spokesman as known and others, Arnie got his DNA from those days ( yes I'm talking up to the guys about the Aussie DNA through the cup) that now he's applauded finally having had so so so many against him, more so the newbie younger supporters but now he's welcomed with open arms lol....... Yes we have progressed due to coaching acuman and all that is available today being prepared game by game, we punched above our weight that makes a great storey and provides HOPE as long as this current weak FA finally get things in order below ALM levels for thats the breeding ground full stop. D2's analysis at times blows me away like quoting the Asian Cup flop of 07, we have been flops since 06 buddy, thankfully been matched and bettered in '22. There is a good saying when I read alot of your summary's and talking up of today, your ambition far outweighs your talent. Thats us right now riding on the high of the last couple of weeks. I make no apologies for my scathing attack on the old NSL, and I say that as someone who loyally followed the NSL from 1977 to 2000, when I then gave up on the NSL, because it was as clear as day, that it was dying a slow and painful death. To be fair some of the NSL was OK, and there were some good teams that were worth paying money to see eg, Adelaide City, South Melbourne Hellas, Marconi (late 80's, early 90's), Sydney Olympic,Perth Glory, Sydney/Melbourne Croatia. But lets be brutally honest, football back then was the WORST run sport in Australia by a country mile (at all levels ie.ASF and SA), and like I said in one of my previous replies, some of my Greek-Australian friends who were mad Sydney Olympic fans would often tell me how appalled at how badly their club was run, as myself an Italian-Australian, I was just as appalled at how badly Apia and Marconi were, although in fairness to Marconi they were in some financial trouble but they have turned that around, and they have a great social club (I recently ate there and the food was great, and the club has been renovated and it's a nice place to visit). As for APIA, if that club was run by people who actually knew what they were doing, they could have been one of the most successful licensed clubs in New South Wales, but it wasn't, and it went broke. I'm sorry but the NSL crowd numbers were for the most part poor, yeah sure the odd ethnic/local derbies often got crowds over 10K, and some of the NSL grand finals were sell outs or close to them, but the A-League crowds (between 2005-2017), dwarf those of the old NSL (Sydney FC v WSW local derbies often got sold out crowds of between 20K (if played at the old Paramatta Stadium), and 40K (when played at the old SFS), in October 2016, when Sydney FC played WSW at the Olympic Stadium at Homebush, the attendance was 61K (a regular game), the old NSL couldn't get anywhere near those numbers, even for the NSL Grand Finals (from memory the biggest NSL Grand Final attendance was around 43K Perth Glory v Sydney Olympic at Subiaco Oval in Perth, WA). I understand and appreciate that there is still a "sheilas, wogs and poofters" bogan mentality to football, and that the bogan media (which I don't watch anymore, in fact I stopped watching TV, except for football more than ten years ago), hates football (especially the AFL loving channel 7), but it has to be said that football in Australia now is in a much better place than what it was prior to 2005. All of what you say is true but, there are fans out there that don't support ALeague teams, but they support they're former NSL teams. They're family members supported them and there is a historical significance associated with these teams with history. Why would the establishment exclude the better run clubs like South Melbourne, Apia and Sydney/Melbourne UTD from a chance to 'participate?' The politicians that run FA/Apl need to start respecting Australian football/soccer alot more by becoming inclusive and have your newer teams as well, they are not at fault with any exclusions. They were not excluded, but they excluded themselves. They need to understand that it can't be business as usual and run their club with a smell of an oily rag and fit in with the big boys. The TV money that these ex NSL now want to put their hands on was a result of the changes and the clubs / league growing up to what it is today (although it is acknowledged there's still a way to go). @ SR1968 - regarding sell out crowds at NSL grand finals. Only ever occurred when at least one multi ethnic / broad based club participated such was their appeal vs mono-ethnic clubs. Of the top priorities that need to happen for further improvement are IMO: 1. Much longer season (across the board) that will enhance skills and toughen players mentally and physically 2. Coaching / training techniques (across the board) to drive better ball control and distribution under pressure 3. NSD 4. P&R only when the NSD is fully professional
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LFC.
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Group: Forum Members
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+x+x+x+x+x+xAnd before the old NSL apologists start beating their chests on how "good" the old NSL supposedly was (some of it was OK, but it was mostly crap), FACTS don't give two shits about your feelings, the Socceroos never qualified for any WC during the 27 failed years the NSL (1977-2004), and the crowds were mostly pathetic. Just my 2c worth. Feisty opening post from a newby. I think the major flaw in your argument is that Oz was trapped in Oceania during the entirety of the relevant period. This was also the period when FIFA went out of their way to make sure Israel couldn't make the WC Finals after what happened at the Munich Olympics (there may have been other Middle East political reasons also). Accordingly, they obliged Israel to play off against the Oceania champion, an arrangement to which we meekly submitted, and then forced the winner of that tie to play off against (usually) a Euro or Sth American superpower. This was because FIFA didn't give a fuck about Oceania but did not, under any circumstances want Israel at the finals. This meant we had little chance of qualifying, no matter how good our player pathways. In fact, the first time we qualified in 32 years was via Oceania in a playoff against Uruguay. This was the so-called Golden Generation, almost all of whom were bred and born in the NSL. The NSL made a huge contribution to Oz football and the many ethnic clubs that featured in the NSL kept the flickering flame of football alive in this country. It may have had its problems, much exacerbated by the anti-football media which feared (and continues to fear) the Sleeping Giant, but there's no denying the NSL produced some brilliant Socceroos. So yes, on many grounds, football has improved in the last 20 years but it could have been so much better. Hopefully we are at last on the brink of something really big. Your summary above is far more palatable than SR's on the NSL to me. Its not just about being in Oceania and FIFA not giving a toss obviously the local hurdles, be it bad management that I agree with but also the game not having much respect here in good ol boganville as it was and all the complexities behind the scenes. Another point he mentioned that I can't agree is having produced the GG and yours saying so - called. Give it a break like D2 plucking out all the negatives of players back then, ofcourse there is when your looking from a 2022 perspective. There was great legend players who were part timers long before the GG that might I add unlike the last 20yrs of travelling abroad to better Clubs wasn't the norm for the Warrens/Richards/Alston/Schaefer etc barring Baartz trialing with United for one. Its still amazing they made it in '74 under all the circumstances - how anyone bags out not making it for 32yrs being part timers and messed up local system/not much external support are taking the piss imo. Then he mentions about lack of crowds, well any derby I went to with the ol man was packed, APIA/Marconi/Cros v's Serbs (yes that got out of hand) playing the Greeks was packed like come on - no diff to today but in smaller grounds and then you had low numbers attending, obviously it had run its course and many couldn't agree on enything put forward, again the big issue not having a strong upper management. The failing NSL as a comp was/is our foundation that many many players put their bodies and livelyhood on the line for the love of the game more than anything else, I give huge kudos to them getting bugger all money, being dis repected by Joe Public and the bogan loving media. Warren such a spokesman as known and others, Arnie got his DNA from those days ( yes I'm talking up to the guys about the Aussie DNA through the cup) that now he's applauded finally having had so so so many against him, more so the newbie younger supporters but now he's welcomed with open arms lol....... Yes we have progressed due to coaching acuman and all that is available today being prepared game by game, we punched above our weight that makes a great storey and provides HOPE as long as this current weak FA finally get things in order below ALM levels for thats the breeding ground full stop. D2's analysis at times blows me away like quoting the Asian Cup flop of 07, we have been flops since 06 buddy, thankfully been matched and bettered in '22. There is a good saying when I read alot of your summary's and talking up of today, your ambition far outweighs your talent. Thats us right now riding on the high of the last couple of weeks. I make no apologies for my scathing attack on the old NSL, and I say that as someone who loyally followed the NSL from 1977 to 2000, when I then gave up on the NSL, because it was as clear as day, that it was dying a slow and painful death. To be fair some of the NSL was OK, and there were some good teams that were worth paying money to see eg, Adelaide City, South Melbourne Hellas, Marconi (late 80's, early 90's), Sydney Olympic,Perth Glory, Sydney/Melbourne Croatia. But lets be brutally honest, football back then was the WORST run sport in Australia by a country mile (at all levels ie.ASF and SA), and like I said in one of my previous replies, some of my Greek-Australian friends who were mad Sydney Olympic fans would often tell me how appalled at how badly their club was run, as myself an Italian-Australian, I was just as appalled at how badly Apia and Marconi were, although in fairness to Marconi they were in some financial trouble but they have turned that around, and they have a great social club (I recently ate there and the food was great, and the club has been renovated and it's a nice place to visit). As for APIA, if that club was run by people who actually knew what they were doing, they could have been one of the most successful licensed clubs in New South Wales, but it wasn't, and it went broke. I'm sorry but the NSL crowd numbers were for the most part poor, yeah sure the odd ethnic/local derbies often got crowds over 10K, and some of the NSL grand finals were sell outs or close to them, but the A-League crowds (between 2005-2017), dwarf those of the old NSL (Sydney FC v WSW local derbies often got sold out crowds of between 20K (if played at the old Paramatta Stadium), and 40K (when played at the old SFS), in October 2016, when Sydney FC played WSW at the Olympic Stadium at Homebush, the attendance was 61K (a regular game), the old NSL couldn't get anywhere near those numbers, even for the NSL Grand Finals (from memory the biggest NSL Grand Final attendance was around 43K Perth Glory v Sydney Olympic at Subiaco Oval in Perth, WA). I understand and appreciate that there is still a "sheilas, wogs and poofters" bogan mentality to football, and that the bogan media (which I don't watch anymore, in fact I stopped watching TV, except for football more than ten years ago), hates football (especially the AFL loving channel 7), but it has to be said that football in Australia now is in a much better place than what it was prior to 2005. Sure, as long as you are not one of the "old soccer" crowd..... No, I'm someone that loves football and just wants to see it grow in Australia. I’d say everyone has the same passionate interest there SR no matter the different pov’s. There is nothing to be sorry about talking about the past we’re all pretty knowledgeable there some more than me and you might I add. Both comps have had their highs and lows and Clubs that can’t run a chook raffle hello Jets amongst others cheeez there’s another common vein. we all know commercially since 05 it’s ahead leaps and bounds and backwards and you bloody well hope so for the bar wasn’t that high commercially , ofcourse crowds picked up a different way going to market. It improved 5steps forward then back 3, thankfully it rode off the back originally from 06 later to waver due to bad management and now back in the spotlight thanks to the diamond gen that no one is unhappy about that’s the happy place actually……. Commercially it’s way better off but it’s been in a hole for quite a number of years and our Roos track record qualifying x 5 isn’t success to me just making the numbers the last few but for making R16 in 06 and now, that’s some form of success. I wonder how many Moroccans put down their past 36yrs having made the R16 for the first time playing tomorrow.
Love Football
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Remote Control
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 1.4K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+xAnd before the old NSL apologists start beating their chests on how "good" the old NSL supposedly was (some of it was OK, but it was mostly crap), FACTS don't give two shits about your feelings, the Socceroos never qualified for any WC during the 27 failed years the NSL (1977-2004), and the crowds were mostly pathetic. Just my 2c worth. Feisty opening post from a newby. I think the major flaw in your argument is that Oz was trapped in Oceania during the entirety of the relevant period. This was also the period when FIFA went out of their way to make sure Israel couldn't make the WC Finals after what happened at the Munich Olympics (there may have been other Middle East political reasons also). Accordingly, they obliged Israel to play off against the Oceania champion, an arrangement to which we meekly submitted, and then forced the winner of that tie to play off against (usually) a Euro or Sth American superpower. This was because FIFA didn't give a fuck about Oceania but did not, under any circumstances want Israel at the finals. This meant we had little chance of qualifying, no matter how good our player pathways. In fact, the first time we qualified in 32 years was via Oceania in a playoff against Uruguay. This was the so-called Golden Generation, almost all of whom were bred and born in the NSL. The NSL made a huge contribution to Oz football and the many ethnic clubs that featured in the NSL kept the flickering flame of football alive in this country. It may have had its problems, much exacerbated by the anti-football media which feared (and continues to fear) the Sleeping Giant, but there's no denying the NSL produced some brilliant Socceroos. So yes, on many grounds, football has improved in the last 20 years but it could have been so much better. Hopefully we are at last on the brink of something really big. Your summary above is far more palatable than SR's on the NSL to me. Its not just about being in Oceania and FIFA not giving a toss obviously the local hurdles, be it bad management that I agree with but also the game not having much respect here in good ol boganville as it was and all the complexities behind the scenes. Another point he mentioned that I can't agree is having produced the GG and yours saying so - called. Give it a break like D2 plucking out all the negatives of players back then, ofcourse there is when your looking from a 2022 perspective. There was great legend players who were part timers long before the GG that might I add unlike the last 20yrs of travelling abroad to better Clubs wasn't the norm for the Warrens/Richards/Alston/Schaefer etc barring Baartz trialing with United for one. Its still amazing they made it in '74 under all the circumstances - how anyone bags out not making it for 32yrs being part timers and messed up local system/not much external support are taking the piss imo. Then he mentions about lack of crowds, well any derby I went to with the ol man was packed, APIA/Marconi/Cros v's Serbs (yes that got out of hand) playing the Greeks was packed like come on - no diff to today but in smaller grounds and then you had low numbers attending, obviously it had run its course and many couldn't agree on enything put forward, again the big issue not having a strong upper management. The failing NSL as a comp was/is our foundation that many many players put their bodies and livelyhood on the line for the love of the game more than anything else, I give huge kudos to them getting bugger all money, being dis repected by Joe Public and the bogan loving media. Warren such a spokesman as known and others, Arnie got his DNA from those days ( yes I'm talking up to the guys about the Aussie DNA through the cup) that now he's applauded finally having had so so so many against him, more so the newbie younger supporters but now he's welcomed with open arms lol....... Yes we have progressed due to coaching acuman and all that is available today being prepared game by game, we punched above our weight that makes a great storey and provides HOPE as long as this current weak FA finally get things in order below ALM levels for thats the breeding ground full stop. D2's analysis at times blows me away like quoting the Asian Cup flop of 07, we have been flops since 06 buddy, thankfully been matched and bettered in '22. There is a good saying when I read alot of your summary's and talking up of today, your ambition far outweighs your talent. Thats us right now riding on the high of the last couple of weeks. I make no apologies for my scathing attack on the old NSL, and I say that as someone who loyally followed the NSL from 1977 to 2000, when I then gave up on the NSL, because it was as clear as day, that it was dying a slow and painful death. To be fair some of the NSL was OK, and there were some good teams that were worth paying money to see eg, Adelaide City, South Melbourne Hellas, Marconi (late 80's, early 90's), Sydney Olympic,Perth Glory, Sydney/Melbourne Croatia. But lets be brutally honest, football back then was the WORST run sport in Australia by a country mile (at all levels ie.ASF and SA), and like I said in one of my previous replies, some of my Greek-Australian friends who were mad Sydney Olympic fans would often tell me how appalled at how badly their club was run, as myself an Italian-Australian, I was just as appalled at how badly Apia and Marconi were, although in fairness to Marconi they were in some financial trouble but they have turned that around, and they have a great social club (I recently ate there and the food was great, and the club has been renovated and it's a nice place to visit). As for APIA, if that club was run by people who actually knew what they were doing, they could have been one of the most successful licensed clubs in New South Wales, but it wasn't, and it went broke. I'm sorry but the NSL crowd numbers were for the most part poor, yeah sure the odd ethnic/local derbies often got crowds over 10K, and some of the NSL grand finals were sell outs or close to them, but the A-League crowds (between 2005-2017), dwarf those of the old NSL (Sydney FC v WSW local derbies often got sold out crowds of between 20K (if played at the old Paramatta Stadium), and 40K (when played at the old SFS), in October 2016, when Sydney FC played WSW at the Olympic Stadium at Homebush, the attendance was 61K (a regular game), the old NSL couldn't get anywhere near those numbers, even for the NSL Grand Finals (from memory the biggest NSL Grand Final attendance was around 43K Perth Glory v Sydney Olympic at Subiaco Oval in Perth, WA). I understand and appreciate that there is still a "sheilas, wogs and poofters" bogan mentality to football, and that the bogan media (which I don't watch anymore, in fact I stopped watching TV, except for football more than ten years ago), hates football (especially the AFL loving channel 7), but it has to be said that football in Australia now is in a much better place than what it was prior to 2005. Sure, as long as you are not one of the "old soccer" crowd..... No, I'm someone that loves football and just wants to see it grow in Australia. our Roos track record qualifying x 5 isn’t success to me Geez , what do you call Failing to qualify for 32 years then ... ?
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Enzo Bearzot
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Group: Forum Members
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3 things.
1. A full pro domestic league
2. The discovery that good coaches make a big difference following Hiddink's appointment.
3. From this World Cup, the realization that results matter more than anything else.
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Enzo Bearzot
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 4.5K,
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+x+x+x+x+xAnd before the old NSL apologists start beating their chests on how "good" the old NSL supposedly was (some of it was OK, but it was mostly crap), FACTS don't give two shits about your feelings, the Socceroos never qualified for any WC during the 27 failed years the NSL (1977-2004), and the crowds were mostly pathetic. Just my 2c worth. Feisty opening post from a newby. I think the major flaw in your argument is that Oz was trapped in Oceania during the entirety of the relevant period. This was also the period when FIFA went out of their way to make sure Israel couldn't make the WC Finals after what happened at the Munich Olympics (there may have been other Middle East political reasons also). Accordingly, they obliged Israel to play off against the Oceania champion, an arrangement to which we meekly submitted, and then forced the winner of that tie to play off against (usually) a Euro or Sth American superpower. This was because FIFA didn't give a fuck about Oceania but did not, under any circumstances want Israel at the finals. This meant we had little chance of qualifying, no matter how good our player pathways. In fact, the first time we qualified in 32 years was via Oceania in a playoff against Uruguay. This was the so-called Golden Generation, almost all of whom were bred and born in the NSL. The NSL made a huge contribution to Oz football and the many ethnic clubs that featured in the NSL kept the flickering flame of football alive in this country. It may have had its problems, much exacerbated by the anti-football media which feared (and continues to fear) the Sleeping Giant, but there's no denying the NSL produced some brilliant Socceroos. So yes, on many grounds, football has improved in the last 20 years but it could have been so much better. Hopefully we are at last on the brink of something really big. Your summary above is far more palatable than SR's on the NSL to me. Its not just about being in Oceania and FIFA not giving a toss obviously the local hurdles, be it bad management that I agree with but also the game not having much respect here in good ol boganville as it was and all the complexities behind the scenes. Another point he mentioned that I can't agree is having produced the GG and yours saying so - called. Give it a break like D2 plucking out all the negatives of players back then, ofcourse there is when your looking from a 2022 perspective. There was great legend players who were part timers long before the GG that might I add unlike the last 20yrs of travelling abroad to better Clubs wasn't the norm for the Warrens/Richards/Alston/Schaefer etc barring Baartz trialing with United for one. Its still amazing they made it in '74 under all the circumstances - how anyone bags out not making it for 32yrs being part timers and messed up local system/not much external support are taking the piss imo. Then he mentions about lack of crowds, well any derby I went to with the ol man was packed, APIA/Marconi/Cros v's Serbs (yes that got out of hand) playing the Greeks was packed like come on - no diff to today but in smaller grounds and then you had low numbers attending, obviously it had run its course and many couldn't agree on enything put forward, again the big issue not having a strong upper management. The failing NSL as a comp was/is our foundation that many many players put their bodies and livelyhood on the line for the love of the game more than anything else, I give huge kudos to them getting bugger all money, being dis repected by Joe Public and the bogan loving media. Warren such a spokesman as known and others, Arnie got his DNA from those days ( yes I'm talking up to the guys about the Aussie DNA through the cup) that now he's applauded finally having had so so so many against him, more so the newbie younger supporters but now he's welcomed with open arms lol....... Yes we have progressed due to coaching acuman and all that is available today being prepared game by game, we punched above our weight that makes a great storey and provides HOPE as long as this current weak FA finally get things in order below ALM levels for thats the breeding ground full stop. D2's analysis at times blows me away like quoting the Asian Cup flop of 07, we have been flops since 06 buddy, thankfully been matched and bettered in '22. There is a good saying when I read alot of your summary's and talking up of today, your ambition far outweighs your talent. Thats us right now riding on the high of the last couple of weeks. I make no apologies for my scathing attack on the old NSL, and I say that as someone who loyally followed the NSL from 1977 to 2000, when I then gave up on the NSL, because it was as clear as day, that it was dying a slow and painful death. To be fair some of the NSL was OK, and there were some good teams that were worth paying money to see eg, Adelaide City, South Melbourne Hellas, Marconi (late 80's, early 90's), Sydney Olympic,Perth Glory, Sydney/Melbourne Croatia. But lets be brutally honest, football back then was the WORST run sport in Australia by a country mile (at all levels ie.ASF and SA), and like I said in one of my previous replies, some of my Greek-Australian friends who were mad Sydney Olympic fans would often tell me how appalled at how badly their club was run, as myself an Italian-Australian, I was just as appalled at how badly Apia and Marconi were, although in fairness to Marconi they were in some financial trouble but they have turned that around, and they have a great social club (I recently ate there and the food was great, and the club has been renovated and it's a nice place to visit). As for APIA, if that club was run by people who actually knew what they were doing, they could have been one of the most successful licensed clubs in New South Wales, but it wasn't, and it went broke. I'm sorry but the NSL crowd numbers were for the most part poor, yeah sure the odd ethnic/local derbies often got crowds over 10K, and some of the NSL grand finals were sell outs or close to them, but the A-League crowds (between 2005-2017), dwarf those of the old NSL (Sydney FC v WSW local derbies often got sold out crowds of between 20K (if played at the old Paramatta Stadium), and 40K (when played at the old SFS), in October 2016, when Sydney FC played WSW at the Olympic Stadium at Homebush, the attendance was 61K (a regular game), the old NSL couldn't get anywhere near those numbers, even for the NSL Grand Finals (from memory the biggest NSL Grand Final attendance was around 43K Perth Glory v Sydney Olympic at Subiaco Oval in Perth, WA). I understand and appreciate that there is still a "sheilas, wogs and poofters" bogan mentality to football, and that the bogan media (which I don't watch anymore, in fact I stopped watching TV, except for football more than ten years ago), hates football (especially the AFL loving channel 7), but it has to be said that football in Australia now is in a much better place than what it was prior to 2005. All of what you say is true but, there are fans out there that don't support ALeague teams, but they support they're former NSL teams. They're family members supported them and there is a historical significance associated with these teams with history. Why would the establishment exclude the better run clubs like South Melbourne, Apia and Sydney/Melbourne UTD from a chance to 'participate?' The politicians that run FA/Apl need to start respecting Australian football/soccer alot more by becoming inclusive and have your newer teams as well, they are not at fault with any exclusions. Because there is a low ceiling to the fan base they can attract.
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