Ironically Tilio is being monitored by Nick Montgomery and Hibs where Boyle plays. Would love a loan move from Celtic to Hibs for Tils

Wow opening game between Qatar and Lebanon is at Lusail.

Australia play India where we played Argentina. Second game is at a stadium not used at the world cup.
Uzbekistan game is at very familiar territory where we played all 3 group games. 

Good to hear.

If Leckie is unavailable as a rugged, bulldozing right winger, for the Socceroos, I think Tulio could be the best option for Right Wing ATM.

He just needs some solid game time somewhere.

What is the HIbs pitch like? I've finally seen some English Lower league games after an absence of a few years. Astonishingly, some League One and Two teams play on good pitches. They must be able to afford artificial heating under the grass, or play on synthetic pitches

Ironically, Tilio going to a club where Boyle plays, I think Tilio is better ATM, given  Boyle has not scored for a long time for the Roos, unless he scored in the 8 goals in the fist WCQ in Aus a few weeks ago. Mabil appears to be one of the better scoring options in that position ATM.

I've thought this. Irvine at Ten, with Baccus and O'Neill as defensive Mids.

However, the   rotating midfield triangle confuses other teams , if  Irvine rotates roles when he moves up in  a line with the likes Metcalfe or McGree. He acts as a box to box midfielder.

Just lately, I've thought there are a number of others who have better passing and moving capabilities, with quicker handling speed than Irvine. Jackson may be  best used as a threat around the box with clever passes, vision, aerial prowess and late runs into the box.  

https://www.espn.com.au/football/story/_/id/39189588/2023-afc-asian-cup-guide-coaches-ones-watch-every-team

What qualities do you like in Irvine as a 10? I think he's a goal threat but mostly from set pieces with his head. He doesn't really scream 10 to me. 

Like I said, I don't think I want to sacrifice our 10 just to include Irvine. He's just not a 6 for the national team. St Pauli often play with a diamond. If he's a 6 he's like a scared horse and stumbles over the ball or just boots it away. 

As a 10 for Australia against Ecuador his help with the press saw those good turnovers where Mabil scored. His stature gives defenders a second thought on who to mark because of his aerial presence. 

Honestly though, I think Irvine could be used for bench impact and closing down games. He doesn't necessarily need to start. 

The difference between McGree and Irvine against Bahrain was night and day; Irvine is a great presser with a great workrate but he just doesn't have the technical ability that the rest of our midfield candidates do. When we're trying to break down deep defenses he really doesn't offer much apart from his energy and physical presence, which doesn't justify his spot noting that we have a clinical, proven goalscorer in Fornaroli who IMO we should be building the team around for the Cup. Irvine is the perfect player for 20 years ago, but I think we have to move on to proper techincal players that can both break down a deep defense and play through a press; McGree, Robertson, etc should be our future

Break down deep defence?  Yes but don't forget Palestine & Bahrain in 2nd half they attacked us and we were struggling to dominate the game also. We just don't have a good midfield to dominate the whole game.

shouldn't thread title be changed to 2024 not 2023.

Well looking forward to games starting up on the weekend.

HTF Qatar are defending Champs - anyway host NT as per WC so home advantage will be a good 12th man for them and favourable draw by the look of it.

I'll be curious to watch how Klinsmann manages SK and Mancini for Saudi.

Looking like we will meet Saudis in Qrtr's.

Don't think I'll bother for host 3am Sat koff so bring on 10.30pm Roos vs India.

Pre Asian cup games last night
Indonesia 0-5 Iran

Holy Moly Look at Japan's last 10 games:
v JOR 6-1 (in QTR)
v THA 5-0 (H)
v SYR 5-0 (in KSA)
v Myanmar 5-0 (H)
v TUN 2-0 (H)
v CAN 4-1 (H)
v TUR 4-2 (in BEL)
v GER 4-1 (A)
v PER 4-1 (H)
v El Sal 6-0 (H)
So W10 D0 L0 GF 45 GA 6

Irvine as number Ten.

* When they have the ball, Ball Possession Opposition, Irvine has the engine/endurance, like Metcalfe, and Brett Holman used to, to track back and keep the team shape compact, when the opposition has the ball in the Attacking Transitions ( the 6 second phase when they regain the ball) and their phases of Ball Possession.

* When they have the ball, he closes down space well, forcing turnovers which are invaluable in the attacking third and half.  The more technically gifted , Hrustic, rarely does this. 

* Irvine is also a physically strong unit, and puts himself about.

* Has good game sense and vision. He might not always be able to execute his objective, because of his slower handling speed, but he interplays with teammates well, as opposed to Hrustic, who doesn't do it as effecitvely.

* Late runs in the the box. I think it was Atkinson or Boyle who got to the bi line and passed from the right for Irvine to score a well taken goal from excellent positioning, from a hard to track late run into the box, against the UAE.

* Aerial threat - both set pieces and open play.

* Positioning- particularly  in the pen box. I  thought originally it was Irvine who provided the  headed assist, from O'Neill's pass/cross for Duke's goal against Bahrain, but it may have been Goodwin? He  has had quite a number of shots/goals from good anticipation and positioning in the pen box. 

* Adaptability for different game plans on the pitch. He can play as a Ten, or go back as a DM.  He even used to play CB when he was younger. The midfield triangle can be rotated. I  think  Irvine is a very clever and experienced player, who can adapt to different roles in the team. He has also improved a lot under his German coach at St Pauli.

* Leadership on the pitch. One has to know one's own game well to organise others.

Having said all this we desperately need players of Mooy, O'Neill, Hrustic's, Milligan's ( maybe McGree, Robertson and Baccus ?) technical ability in midfield  ( first touch, fast feet, quick handling speed)  to play fast pass and move sequences to build up through the  condensed midfields of better teams - and not be forced as much to launch accelerated attacks.

 

The big factor Irvine has over McGree, Metcalfe, O'Neill and Baccus, the other central midfielders, attacking and defensive, is vast experience in World Cups and Asian Cups.

I think the other mids have more talent than Irvine, long term, but this is a very big tournament.

Wow!

Impressive!

lets hope they have peaked lol....

I've had a look at most of the replays the Socceroos have played since the Qatar WC in  the last few weeks.

With the squad Arnie has chosen ( I'd like to have seen Circati selected based on his one Socceroos performance), I've chosen what  I think is the best Aus team based on form, when we have the ball.

However, Armie won't choose it, because it isn't quite experienced enough. It possibly isn't the best team in Ball Possession Opposition either, but it is the best team we have where technical qualities ( handling speed, first touch, running with the ball) are paramount.

.............................................Ryan

Atkinson..............Souttar..............Rowles.............Bos

................Baccus................................O'Neill
.......................................McGree

Tilio...................................Duke ..........................Goodwin 

I have  no doubt Arnie would want Irvine and Metcalfe in for a physical presence, and probably for  what they provide when the other team has the ball. They aren't the technicians that Baccus, O'Neill and McGree are though.

Against a big, physical team with big forwards, Burgess would probably be preferable to Rowles, with his extra height for aerial duels.

Behich provides experience at Left Back in big tournaments. I think  Arnie will  start him at LB.

Having a good look at the games against Mexico  and Argentina, Atkinson's ball winning has improved immeasurably.

Not sure how Tilio defends, but I think he is overtaking Boyle as a dribbler and ball carrier, given Boyle's penalty box predatory skills aren't as good as they were. Boyle is very experienced, but like Tilio, hasn't been a starter at a WC or Asian Cup.

Against Mexico we were good without the ball, but mediocre with it. With the cattle we had, we didn't play through the midfield. There were a lot of accelerated attacks down the flanks. Against Argentina, with the different cattle selected, we could build up through the midfield. O'Neill and Baccus were a tidy defensive midfield combo.  Er need player slie this to be able to build up patiently through midfield, rather than rely on accelerated attacks against them.

Commentators McBreen and Simon Hill thought Irvine had a good game against Mexico. But I thought it showed up his lack of nimbleness and quick enough handling speed on a number of occasions where he turned the ball over, despite him performing well  in other facets of play. When he has time and space on the ball he  often executes some  good things.

Against Argentina, O'Neill and Baccus were more composed on the ball in tight spaces in defensive midfield. I think McGree is more effective  centrally as a number Ten, than out wide.

A big decision is who to play as Ten? McGree or Irvine?

Mcgree is a million times better player than Irvine

* McGree

 -a better passer and mover in tight spaces.

- better dribbler

- better first touch

- better for the team to build up through the central midfield in more confined time and space.

- more nimble

- can play on flanks

-I'm biased towards McGree, because he is a more modern type of Aussie player, that 13 years ago his skill set was in shoort supply, as we hardly had any number Tens. Han Berger and Football Aus Tech Dept, desperately wanted to create players like McGree.

- Irvine starting to lose his cool with refs.



* Irvine

- more leadership through experience, although starting to lose it with refs.

- better aerialist offensively and defensively

- more muscular presence

- can play Defensive Midfield



* Similar ability

- both have good endurance, track back to keep the team shape compact

- both adaptable to play different positions

- both have plenty of game sense. That is why McGree is selected before Hrustic - a gifted technician.

- Both are good ball winners and close down space well when when opposition  has the ball.

I wish McGree hadn't been injured and had played more Socceroo games. Even though Irvine has improved late in his career at St Pauli, McGree is improving faster.

For the aforementioned reasons I agree with you that McGree is better, but there is not  a lot in it ATM.

 Arnie disagrees with us and will play Irvine!

Arnie might go for McGree at 10, Irvine at 8 (his best position) and O'Neill at 6. Tough on Baccus but I think Baccus could make an excellent rb, although wouldn't normally recommend a switch like that in a big tournament. Having said that, Degenek did a pretty good job there in the WC so those position switches can work but it's more of an adjustment going from dm to rb than cb to rb, imo. There's been a bit of talk that rb is a problem position for us but I know you're feeling positive about Atkinson in that role.

Degenek at RB, like Rowles as LB, is a solid physical, muscular ball winning full back, but they don't turn and chase as effectively as smaller, more nimble full backs.  Agree that Deg did a good job for us in Qatar performing this role.

Atkinson was much stronger as an attacking RB. What really impressed me against Argentina and Mexico, against classy wingers, was he held his own, dispossessing them quite a lot in 1v1s when the wingers had the more  favourable body position. His 1v1 defensive skills and physical toughness have improved in Scotland. Atkinson is reading and anticipating tackles better than he was. He seems stronger and uses his body better.

Baccus I think is playing better than Irvine as the 8, whereas I think Irvine is better at 10, but may be now superseded by McGree at 10?

Arnold has real selection headaches and more depth than we've ever had, apart  from central striker, and maybe keepers?

I think Irvine is a dead-set 8, very much in the Tim Cahill mould when he was in his prime, except not as good, obviously. Similar traits. I'm not all all convinced about him at 10. 
Yes, Baccus and O'Neill could both do a job at 8 but I think both are more comfortable at 6.

Went and looked up the 2019 squad since I didn't remember much about it.

Only Ryan, Behich and Irvine are still in this time around. It's already been 5 years but interesting to see just exactly how much it has changed.

Thought Gersbach would have been the number 1 left back by now.  What happened?

Thanks for posting.

Always interesting to post this sort of thing. Changes always seem to occur that are a surprise.

Can't believe that Ikon, who I thought was our best provider for balls in the  pen box, played in or dribbled in, supported by stats, hasn't kicked on?

Amini, Giannou, Risdon, Gersbach, Nabbout, Jeggo, Grant no longer figure, despite most being young enough. I think Grant and Risdon have been deemed too slow over the turf. Degenek has been moved on for intergenerational change.

I think Jmac has been defined as a striker very good in the A L and against modest  international opposition like Bangladesh, but struggles against higher quality, tighter, more physical international defences. He can't shake his markers to create  sufficient space, outpace them, or outjump them, like at a lower level. When JMac takes up good positions, the better international defenders are better individually at tracking him  and as part of a team unit, negating him.

I rated him as well. Career seems nowhere 

Amazing that he looked so good so early?

It often happens. Even now some of our stars at age 18-21 will  inexplicably fade as they progress in age. On the other hand some who are modest players when younger inexplicably kick on later in their mid 20s.

I think Jackson Irvine, Mitch Duke and Craig Goodwin, are improving even as they hit their early thirties, whereas other players are already on the slide at the same age, at the same stage of their careers.

At a football workshop with Melb Victory I  posed the question to Kevin Muscat, why this occurs? He responded that, 'It is very complex. We just don't know why it occurs -why players develop so differently?'

As a Socceroo, a bit like Hrustic, his game sense and ability to play cohesively with teammates, as a team unit, was at a lower level than most of the rest of the team.

agreed I thought Davo Jnr matured well, Gersbach as mentioned by Enzo, so much promise really looked he's coming and hasn't kicked on real shame for then one like King gets promoted and he just doesn't have it to play at NT level, lightweight AL is his standard if that.
Smith was another prospect when at LFC, sure I expected he to go out on loan or sold but the value he would have recieved being around LFC would have been first class and it showed promise the few games he got and look what became.

Behich said "Whether we're playing Argentina or coming up against India in our next game, we treat it like it's a final and we're going into every game to win.'

All I want to see is an early drive to put away deep lying teams. We tend to go in a bit slow and then get complacent and lost. Games against Kuwait always saw early goals. Try to strike early against Syria and Uzbekistan.

Uzbekistan aren't a weak team at all but just show the initiative in the form of shots on target instead of passing it around forever.