RJL25
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afromanGT wrote:RJL25 wrote:afromanGT wrote:Yeah, no shit you're wasting your time. But how are you meant to get 2-3 years experience in any industry when all the entry level positions want someone with experience? Go through 2-3 years of unpaid internship to get your foot in the door? Well bad news with that one, people need money. They can't all live with their parents into their thirties. What industry are we talking about? Many industries. I've never had the problem personally - hospo doesn't quite work like that. But I hear it from a lot of my friends who were looking for work in 9-5's and gave up on their choice career, hung the degree in the toilet and went to TAFE to study a trade. Yep helloooo thats me right there! Although I did get into my choice of career, but just hated it so much that I had to get out. One thing though I found with uni graduates, is that they think just because they have a degree that they will just walk straight into the job they want, but it doesn't happen like that! A lot of the guys who did the degree I did thought they would just walk straight into being a stock broker, financial planner or whatever, not realising that they still had to do jobs like para planning and assistant type jobs first. People don't realise that a degree doesn't mean you get to skip the shit kicker stage of your career, it just means that your qualified to get the shit kicker job! Edited by RJL25: 16/10/2012 09:26:29 PM
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chillbilly
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afromanGT wrote:Yeah, no shit you're wasting your time. But how are you meant to get 2-3 years experience in any industry when all the entry level positions want someone with experience? Go through 2-3 years of unpaid internship to get your foot in the door? Well bad news with that one, people need money. They can't all live with their parents into their thirties. Pretty much every single graduate position I can find lists 2-3 years experience as a requisite. Since a lot of people are finding the 12 weeks experience needed to graduate my degree hard to find I don't know where the graduate with 2-3 years is going to come from.
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afromanGT
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Baby boomers are a bunch of arseholes. They told us when we were growing up "Go get a degree, you don't want to be flipping burgers the rest of your life", and now we go tens of thousands of dollars into debt, get the degree and they call us pretentious and self-entitled because we refuse to flip burgers.
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RJL25
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chillbilly wrote:afromanGT wrote:Yeah, no shit you're wasting your time. But how are you meant to get 2-3 years experience in any industry when all the entry level positions want someone with experience? Go through 2-3 years of unpaid internship to get your foot in the door? Well bad news with that one, people need money. They can't all live with their parents into their thirties. Pretty much every single graduate position I can find lists 2-3 years experience as a requisite. Since a lot of people are finding the 12 weeks experience needed to graduate my degree hard to find I don't know where the graduate with 2-3 years is going to come from. Some people get the experience by working in the industry while at uni. But I personally never seen a job ad that specifically states "graduate position" or "graduate program" that requires 2-3 years experience, but thats just me and the industry I've come from.
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RJL25
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afromanGT wrote:Baby boomers are a bunch of arseholes. They told us when we were growing up "Go get a degree, you don't want to be flipping burgers the rest of your life", and now we go tens of thousands of dollars into debt, get the degree and they call us pretentious and self-entitled because we refuse to flip burgers. It's not about flipping burgers, but a degree still doesn't entitle you to skipping the entry level positions. Thats were a lot of uni graduates get it wrong, they think the degree entitles them to skip past the entry level position, without realising that all the degree does is qualify them for the entry level position.
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afromanGT
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RJL25 wrote:afromanGT wrote:Baby boomers are a bunch of arseholes. They told us when we were growing up "Go get a degree, you don't want to be flipping burgers the rest of your life", and now we go tens of thousands of dollars into debt, get the degree and they call us pretentious and self-entitled because we refuse to flip burgers. It's not about flipping burgers, but a degree still doesn't entitle you to skipping the entry level positions. Thats were a lot of uni graduates get it wrong, they think the degree entitles them to skip past the entry level position, without realising that all the degree does is qualify them for the entry level position. Horse hockey. That's not the expectation everyone goes in with. You get the degree to be able to work in the industry or whatever. But you've got guys going "nup, you need 2-3 years experience" - or in the case of my degree just telling everyone that they won't cut it in the industry because they're trying to protect their final paychecks and to go back to flipping burgers.
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RJL25
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afromanGT wrote:RJL25 wrote:afromanGT wrote:Baby boomers are a bunch of arseholes. They told us when we were growing up "Go get a degree, you don't want to be flipping burgers the rest of your life", and now we go tens of thousands of dollars into debt, get the degree and they call us pretentious and self-entitled because we refuse to flip burgers. It's not about flipping burgers, but a degree still doesn't entitle you to skipping the entry level positions. Thats were a lot of uni graduates get it wrong, they think the degree entitles them to skip past the entry level position, without realising that all the degree does is qualify them for the entry level position. Horse hockey. That's not the expectation everyone goes in with. You get the degree to be able to work in the industry or whatever. But you've got guys going "nup, you need 2-3 years experience" - or in the case of my degree just telling everyone that they won't cut it in the industry because they're trying to protect their final paychecks and to go back to flipping burgers. I just don't accept that, if you've got the degree and you want to work in the industry hard enough, you'll make it. Sometimes though it means taking a lower level job in the industry just to get the foot in the door, sometimes it means taking a job that isn't within a 10 minute drive from your home, sometimes it means taking a $40k entry level job rather then holding out for the $60k+ job you were promised by your uni lecturers, no one says its easy to get your start, but it's certainly not impossible. Edited by RJL25: 16/10/2012 10:13:06 PM
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afromanGT
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Well yeah, if you want to work in the industry enough you'll make it. But in the modern age nobody can AFFORD to work unpaid internship for 12 months to get their foot in the door. It's fucking bullshit.
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RJL25
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afromanGT wrote:Well yeah, if you want to work in the industry enough you'll make it. But in the modern age nobody can AFFORD to work unpaid internship for 12 months to get their foot in the door. It's fucking bullshit. Who said anything about unpaid internships? Except for the first 6 months of my degree, I worked paid work in the industry during my entire degree. I don't think they even do unpaid internships anymore? Pretty sure they're illegal, minimum wage laws and all that
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afromanGT
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How old are you anyway, mate? 29?
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RJL25
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afromanGT wrote:How old are you anyway, mate? 29? 27, why?
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afromanGT
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So it's been a good 7 years since you were at entry-level position anyway.
I've got a bunch of friends who've gone through the above crap and can't get jobs for my aforementioned reasons.
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RJL25
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afromanGT wrote:So it's been a good 7 years since you were at entry-level position anyway.
I've got a bunch of friends who've gone through the above crap and can't get jobs for my aforementioned reasons. I finished uni at 24, my degree took 6 years because it was part time while I worked full time to pay the bills So actually, I'm only 3 years out of date, and still have friends at uni right now, one who is finishing this year Edited by RJL25: 16/10/2012 10:43:34 PM
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afromanGT
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But you said yourself that you were working in the industry. So you haven't been in an entry level position for the better part of 7 years.
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RJL25
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afromanGT wrote:But you said yourself that you were working in the industry. So you haven't been in an entry level position for the better part of 7 years. I was working below even an entry level position while at uni. Sometimes you have to take shit jobs to get a good job, its called life. Don't tell me its not possible Afro, I did it, all my mates did it, but bottom line is that a lot of people have inflated opinions of what kind of job they will get straight out of uni, they don't realise that all they've got is a peice of fucking paper, you still need to start at the bottom!
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afromanGT
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I know all about working from the bottom, I started out as a bussy.
But you still haven't explained how people our age are meant to get 2-3 years experience doing a job that employers stipulate requires 2-3 years experience.
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notorganic
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afromanGT wrote:I know all about working from the bottom, I started out as a bussy. You started as a bussy and worked your way up to being a casual bartender that makes minimum wage. You're a great example to humanity man - keep up the good work.
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notorganic
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I'd call it more schadenfreude than comedic.
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afromanGT
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notorganic wrote:afromanGT wrote:I know all about working from the bottom, I started out as a bussy. You started as a bussy and worked your way up to being a casual bartender that makes minimum wage. You're a great example to humanity man - keep up the good work. At no point did I indicate that I thought I'd reached the top, merely that I'd started from the bottom, champ. But as usual you feel the need to come along and act like a douchebag to feel better about the life decisions that you made.
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notorganic
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That's a really cool story mate. Thanks so much for sharing.
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afromanGT
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Displaying your usual amount of wit and cleverness there. Do you keep it in a thimble?
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Eastern Glory
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11.mvfc.11 wrote:notorganic wrote:afromanGT wrote:I know all about working from the bottom, I started out as a bussy. You started as a bussy and worked your way up to being a casual bartender that makes minimum wage. You're a great example to humanity man - keep up the good work. Somtimes your dickery is justified and comedic, but there's no need to be a dick just cause. This.
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Eastern Glory
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jlm8695 wrote:WGMG: Not knowing if I want to take a gap year next year after finishing Year 12 this year. My plan is to enroll in the course I want to do, defer it for a year, work a shit load then travel. Have no idea where I want too travel to, or where I could find a job. Work your ass off then travel, that's what i`m doing on my gap year right now. Cannot speak highly enough of it. PM me bro!
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zimbos_05
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RJL25 wrote:
What qualifications do you have?
My sister works in recruiting, and she says the single biggest mistake people make when applying for jobs is thinking that meeting most of the job requirements will be enough. It's not.
If there are 5 job requirements or pre-requisites, then they want you to meet all 5, not 4, not 4 and some of the fifth, but all 5.
If you only have 4, and another applicant has all 5, then your not even going to get an interview let alone any serious consideration for the job.
You just have to put yourself in the employers mind, yes I know that many skills can be taught on the job, but if the employer could hire someone who already knows how to do the job completely, why would they hire someone who they will have to invest time into training up?
I don't mean to sound like a know it all or anything, but I just feel bad for people applying for jobs that they never had any chance of getting. I'm not saying that thats what your doing, just wanted to put that out their in case you are.
Edited by RJL25: 16/10/2012 08:33:53 PM
I have a Diploma in Business Marketing and about 2 subjects left till i finish by Bachelor of Journalism degree. I know not much and it makes sense when people want experience in a sense and obviously going to go for the candidate with the lot in terms of their wants. Like afro says, hard to get experience when every job wants that 2 - 3 years experience. This annoys me more because it then means i need to stay in my current job till i finish my degree at least, and i cant do that. I cant stand my job, only staying there for the money because i need some, but yeah.
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afromanGT
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notorganic wrote:I'd call it more schadenfreude than comedic. You can't denote something that YOU are doing as Schadenfreude.
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RJL25
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afromanGT wrote:I know all about working from the bottom, I started out as a bussy.
But you still haven't explained how people our age are meant to get 2-3 years experience doing a job that employers stipulate requires 2-3 years experience. Yes I did, you do as I did, you work in the industry while at uni. Seems kind of pointless to me to be working at Macca's or Coles while studying law when you could be working as a part time shit kicker in a law firm for the same wage. THAT is how you get your experience. Too many poeple think "i'm just gonna go to uni, scrape through with 4's and get my peice of papaer with a GPA of 4.1 and a resume saying I was a crew trainer at McDonalds and I'll walk straight into a $60k plus grad position! DOESN'T FUCKEN HAPPEN LIKE THAT! Getting your degree is only part of it, for employers, they're tripping over applicants with degrees, you need something to differentiate yourself from the rest of the uni graduates, and demonstrating a willingness to learn the industry your intending to forge a career in by taking part time work in the industry while studying is the obvious way to do that. No one is going to give you your career, you've got to go out there and make it!
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RJL25
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zimbos_05 wrote:RJL25 wrote:
What qualifications do you have?
My sister works in recruiting, and she says the single biggest mistake people make when applying for jobs is thinking that meeting most of the job requirements will be enough. It's not.
If there are 5 job requirements or pre-requisites, then they want you to meet all 5, not 4, not 4 and some of the fifth, but all 5.
If you only have 4, and another applicant has all 5, then your not even going to get an interview let alone any serious consideration for the job.
You just have to put yourself in the employers mind, yes I know that many skills can be taught on the job, but if the employer could hire someone who already knows how to do the job completely, why would they hire someone who they will have to invest time into training up?
I don't mean to sound like a know it all or anything, but I just feel bad for people applying for jobs that they never had any chance of getting. I'm not saying that thats what your doing, just wanted to put that out their in case you are.
Edited by RJL25: 16/10/2012 08:33:53 PM
I have a Diploma in Business Marketing and about 2 subjects left till i finish by Bachelor of Journalism degree. I know not much and it makes sense when people want experience in a sense and obviously going to go for the candidate with the lot in terms of their wants. Like afro says, hard to get experience when every job wants that 2 - 3 years experience. This annoys me more because it then means i need to stay in my current job till i finish my degree at least, and i cant do that. I cant stand my job, only staying there for the money because i need some, but yeah. I understand where your coming from, I can't offer any opinions on how to get started in journalism as I have no idea what so ever about the industry. Do they offer grad programs? If so, start applying for them, you'd be surprised how early thos applications open. I was applying for grad programs before I'd even started my final year!
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RJL25
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notorganic wrote:You started as a bussy and worked your way up to being a casual bartender that makes minimum wage. You're a great example to humanity man - keep up the good work. Thats low man, we all get you two don't get on, but fuck me theres a point at which your not actually insulting him, your just making yourself look like a massive fuckwit
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Roar_Brisbane
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RJL25 wrote:afromanGT wrote:I know all about working from the bottom, I started out as a bussy.
But you still haven't explained how people our age are meant to get 2-3 years experience doing a job that employers stipulate requires 2-3 years experience. Yes I did, you do as I did, you work in the industry while at uni. Seems kind of pointless to me to be working at Macca's or Coles while studying law when you could be working as a part time shit kicker in a law firm for the same wage. THAT is how you get your experience. Too many poeple think "i'm just gonna go to uni, scrape through with 4's and get my peice of papaer with a GPA of 4.1 and a resume saying I was a crew trainer at McDonalds and I'll walk straight into a $60k plus grad position! DOESN'T FUCKEN HAPPEN LIKE THAT! Getting your degree is only part of it, for employers, they're tripping over applicants with degrees, you need something to differentiate yourself from the rest of the uni graduates, and demonstrating a willingness to learn the industry your intending to forge a career in by taking part time work in the industry while studying is the obvious way to do that. No one is going to give you your career, you've got to go out there and make it! Your spot on. Currently in my course I need 200 hours of work experience for me to pass at the end of the degree.
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afromanGT
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RJL25 wrote:afromanGT wrote:I know all about working from the bottom, I started out as a bussy.
But you still haven't explained how people our age are meant to get 2-3 years experience doing a job that employers stipulate requires 2-3 years experience. Yes I did, you do as I did, you work in the industry while at uni. Seems kind of pointless to me to be working at Macca's or Coles while studying law when you could be working as a part time shit kicker in a law firm for the same wage. THAT is how you get your experience. Too many poeple think "i'm just gonna go to uni, scrape through with 4's and get my peice of papaer with a GPA of 4.1 and a resume saying I was a crew trainer at McDonalds and I'll walk straight into a $60k plus grad position! DOESN'T FUCKEN HAPPEN LIKE THAT! Getting your degree is only part of it, for employers, they're tripping over applicants with degrees, you need something to differentiate yourself from the rest of the uni graduates, and demonstrating a willingness to learn the industry your intending to forge a career in by taking part time work in the industry while studying is the obvious way to do that. No one is going to give you your career, you've got to go out there and make it! Both the lawyers I know won't hire a person studying law because they know that they can't commit their time adequately to being a legal aid or whatever. People are hesitant to hire someone who's studying because they know that their long-term goal isn't to be involved in the business. I mean, from an honest business perspective, would you hire someone knowing full well that in a year's time their plan is to be moving on?
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