I see some of the IQ levels of the Victory fans here are below that of the temperature currently had in the UK!

Exactly what you see everytime you go to Etihad stadium. A bunch of halfwit people running around, t-shirts off looking for everything else other than the purity that is football. Ruined the experience for me whenever I go. Some of the stuff in the stands was worst than the tactics used by Ernie Merrick!

I see a few of those have made it to this forum.

Can't wait for the Heart to come on the scene, and by the way, we will ruin a lot more than just your current rivalries!

By the way, looks like a great performance by your mob today in Newcastle. One of ours had caused havoc all game, well done Matty Thompson!

I still believe that Heart will get around 12k average, with Victory continuing around the 20k mark. There will be a few bumps - derby games, rivalries with the Sydney teams, etc.

I strongly suspect that the 12k will consist of:

6k ex-Victory.
4k dual memberships.
2k 'new' supporters - ie/ those who never go on the Victory train

In other words - the new franchise will bring around 2k supporters to the game. Not bad considering one of the key criteria put down by the FFA when negotiating the franchise rights was the need to bring 'new' supporters to the game.

do you really think that 4k will be dual memberships?

to me i would say that would be the minority
but this isnt my field...

Commentators linked both Clint Bolton and Ljubo Milicevic to Melbourne Heart today. Would be two decent signings to say the least and ones sure to annoy the crap out of both Sydney and Victory supporters.

As an outsider who is only interested in what the extra team can do for football in this country I am not too perturbed where the spectators come from. What I am more interested in is football being able to break free of the domination of AFL in Melbourne. Half a million bums on seats in A-League games in Melbourne will advance that cause quite nicely. Coupled with a 95,000 sellout at the Socceroos World Cup send off in May it can only be good for the sport.

I can't help but think that the original plan to set the team in the expanding south-east corridor would have created a natural geographic support base. A lot of supporters not overly keen to travel an hour (plus) from Berwick, etc., may be willing if they felt they were supporting 'their' team. Meanwhile, the 'I don't like Victory' crowd would still have had a side to follow.

I suspect that in the same way West Sydney was passed over in order to leave room for expansion, the South East of Melbourne has been left for future expansion.

Ultimately, the AFL domination of Melbourne is not going to be broken by adding further cookie-cutter franchises.

I still don't get how people can support a club from scratch that doesn't representing anything.

The only thing I can think of is that these so-called Heart supporters posting on here are part of a marketing campaign organised by the franchise which is designed to drum up support, stir a bit of shit and manufacture a rivalry.


Edited by johnny come lately: 10/1/2010 10:43:48 PM

Watch it there. Having been privy to some of the stuff on the Heart forum I wouldn't say some of your supporters are the sharpest tools in the shed. If you reckon there will be no argy bargy from halfwit Heart fans you're quite naive to say the least.

And again you bring up the tactics by Ernie Merrick! Find a real reason to support a football club and not what is fed to you by some 'syndicate' which still represents nothing.

Edited by ClintSakura: 10/1/2010 10:50:22 PM

Girls, Girls.

Come down. You need period pain tablets or what?

Heart' aint gonna be shit.

They gonna drill up some conspiracy, that they have all the wogs' on there side, that they will take over the city, and Victory will be dead within 5 years.

I suspect, highly the other way around.

Someone said we should of put the club in South East Melbs.
AND I TOTALY FARKEN' AGREE!
Who on earth, would support a team, which has come from nothing, when the most successfull team, with the best fans, and the best crowds, is sitting at there door step.
If they had situated it in the South East corner, it would of actualy stiired shit up.
North-South rivalry, i mean cm'on.

But nup.
Heart' aint gonna be shit.
Nuff' said.
I'm worried about WESTSYD, tbh.

Edited by LickMyLovePump: 10/1/2010 11:22:02 PM

:-({|=

The last three posts illustrate my earlier point about some Victory fans.

It is -10 degrees in some parts of the UK! :cool:

I have illustrated my reasoning for following the new club earlier in this thread. Take time to read it, if you cannot read as yet, get someone to read it for you. It's basic reasoning and there are a few of us out there. Not everyone got fully behind the Victory. I agree with Benjamin on his belief of about 12,000 fans for the Heart in the first season. Once we begin and our style of play is formed under the great John van't Schip, many more will follow. True lovers of the beautiful art called Football will flock to see the sport played the way it should be played.

Also on Merrick's tactics, majority of Victory fans are frustrated with it, have been for a long, long time. Next time you go to a game take time in listening to other fans around you, get a feel of the general consensus on your team. Listening to call back callers and reading forums is great, but go to a game and converse with the diehard's.

Let's hope the Heart bring back beauty to this, the beautiful game.....

"The Heart ain't gonna be shit", your having a laugh! Also can you tell your English teacher that she should be ashamed, damn!

I am not a marketing ploy, I am not here on behalf of anyone other than myself. I am an ordinary football fan who has fallen in love with the new club. As I said earlier, I am not the only one.

Also, again, well played Matty Thompson. Great signing by the Heart, a little preview of things to come. ;)

There'll be plenty of "new fans" - far more than 2k I suspect.

Isnt the whole A League based on people supporting a club from scratch that doesnt represent anything. The new Heart team will fit in perfectly

You know both Melbourne and football better than I do but 4K dual? Why would so many back two teams regularly? (I know people in Manchester did several decades ago, and maybe AFL fans often back two teams, but the idea of a third of the fans backing the other team seems weird to me. Victory seem to have different supporter groups (compared to the cove in sydney), is there any word some of these groups are planning to move over to heart en masse? Considering Victory seem to have about a 22K fan group but are capable of producing double.
(like the 50K that turned up for a Sydney match in season 2) it appears they have a lot of fans that are not too hardcore for victory. I would guess that is where most of the fans would come from.

How long do you guys think Van't Schip will stick around for? And Merrick? He's not going to be there forever. You'll find that especially after yesterday's performance some aren't pleased with our tactics, but that doesn't mean we run off to support another team. The ups and downs are what supporting a team is all about.

You haven't even seen the team play yet or what players you're going to get, and a Dutch coach does not guarantee beautiful football.

The reality is that your squad is still going to be made up of A-Leaguers from other squads, perhaps a few state league players and maybe a few imports who will most likely be hit and miss like most other A-League clubs.

You'll still have players like Sarkies and Hoffman running around. Will those who have had no interest in watching A-League standard football come out to see A-League players simply in a different strip? You can't dress up shit as a piece of chocolate. The challenge not just for Heart, but for the whole league, is to try and get those who watch European football to A-League games.

Honestly I applaud Van't Schip's appointment, I just think that there is this weird assumption that just because he is Dutch, his team are going to play an unbelievable brand of football when most of what will be at his disposal is already running around in the league.

How will you deal with it when Van't Schip arrives and you end up watching the club version of Pim's Borearoos ?

IPs checked, none match. All appears legit.



The A-League was built on one-team one-city, so the theory was that supporters were getting behind the team that represented their home city. The Heart are the only team in the entire competition (including the state leagues if I'm not mistaken) who do not represent a specific location.



It may not be as high as 4k, but I believe there will be a lot of dual membership simply because, as everyone keeps saying, Melbourne people love their sport. I know people who make a point of going to every AFL game in the city - if that AFL mob are happy to do 2 games a weekend, it's perfectly reasonable to believe that sum will do every weekend.

As for the 20-30k who turn up sometimes, but not all the time - they would qualify as part of the 'ex-Victory'.

Good call. The assumption that Van't Schip will deliver attacking, free-flowing football simply because he's Dutch, is dubious. You can only work with the players available.

I'm not buying it. Too much of a coincidence that four people all of a sudden join up and start to crap on about Heart. Having said that, I guess it's what I would do to engage with the footballing community and cultivate a brand/rivalry if I was in their position. Good luck with that.



What Benjamin said, but I take your point HELLAS.

Seems to me that Heart are being set up on the same basis as every other club. They are being set up to represent Melbourne. The original intention of the A-League was to include 2 clubs from Melbourne and Sydney but the FFA could not find franchises that were prepared to take the risk. They even had to nurse Victory into existence by waiving part of their entrance payment until they could afford to pay it. It was when they couldn't find 2 franchises in Melbourne and Sydney that O'Neill started talking Rugby Union speak about one team per city.

Edited by gyfox: 11/1/2010 10:12:16 AM

The problem is though, that Victory have 5 years on Heart, and they already have the 'Victoria' brand. So how is MH then relevant? Sure, they could play attractive football, but that's easier said than done, as has been pointed out earlier in this thread. Plus it's something Victory can copy - who have been exciting to watch anyway for the most part.

They should be representing a defined neighbourhood of Melbourne - eg Mornington area or Northern suburbs. Then they can engage with the local football community and clubs etc, build a social club there etc etc. Then they can build their fan base from there, and it will mean something, they will represent something.

First of all, your probably right. Who knows how the new coach will play, going on from what he has said is that he wants to bring the gameplan that will give us something we can all appreciate. But as of yet, its still the unknown. He may well be another Pim, we won't want that.

Ernie Merrick's tactics have been in question for years now from fans, and of course it is no reason to jump ship from the Victory, but a few people will leave the Victory and this is a factor. For whatever reason they never appreciated Merrick and the style of play he brought to the club, me, I got frustrated now and again but didn't think it was actually too bad. It is not at all a reason for why I have crossed to the Heart, but I know people who did have this as a factor amongst many others.

Really I am just trying to generate a bit of a rivalry here on this forum, the thought that we can have two Melbourne teams and not consider it a rivalry is sad, when you think in the long term this could be the best thing for Football in this state and in the country. The one team, one town was a very good philosophy to launch the A-League, now it needs to grow and move to the next step. The Melbourne Heart will be good for the Melbourne Victory just like the new Sydney team will be great for Sydney.

Benjamin - thanks for checking the IP addresses, don't really appreciate being called a liar but this is a forum and I expect some moronic behavior. Looks like some still have doubts, whatever.

At the end of the day, we hope the A-League keeps improving for the game in this country. I think having all these new clubs join the league can only be a good thing. Getting more quality people in will also help.

Anyone know when we are expecting the Heart Syndicate to announce the name, colours, logo etc?

Yes Victory have a 5 year advantage but that doesn't mean that they own the market. Victory were given a 5 year guarantee that they would not have a competitor in the Melbourne market. That time is over. Now it is time for them to compete and Heart has been given task of being their competitor. It is up to Heart to decide how they want to compete in the Melbourne market. Let the market decide if they like the product that Heart put forward. If the FFA had its preference the two would have been competing for the same market from Day 1 and the market would have sorted itself out. This business that Heart should only be able to compete for part of the market was never part of the deal.


Edited by gyfox: 11/1/2010 10:54:48 AM

Yes, Victory certainly don't own the market. And I agree, we need competition for Victory, I personally believe Melbourne could support at least 3 or 4 clubs in the not too distant future. Certainly the market will decide. But I question the strategy that they are adopting. They will have to offer something different to Victory. So far, everything they have proposed can be copied. A geographical differentiation is something that cannot be copied. They could easily represent a neighbourhood of 1 million people (which is more than what a lot of other A-league clubs have to draw on) and use a targeted marketing campaign to this demographic. This way, they will have a clear differentiation with Victory.

I accept what you are saying but I believe that the target markets should be for Melbourne/Victoria # 3 and 4. Melbourne is big enough for 2 general clubs. The fact that Heart will have their admin and training outside the centre of the city is enough at this stage of expansion of top flight football in Melbourne.

The difficulty in Melbourne in establishing on geographical grounds is that venues in Melbourne have gone through a 30 year rationalisation that has concentrated all the venues in the city centre. There is no way any new club could play in a second class venue and be seen by the market as an equal.

Edited by gyfox: 11/1/2010 11:13:27 AM

Well if a new club can come and get another 12K without hurting the regular Victory numbers too badly it has to be seen as a good thing.

I think the rovers will do well. We will steal a little from Sydney FC but probably create a little more interst in the area. A lot of people (myself included) have struggled to get behind SFC. I think in a years time we will see more new rover supports just like we are starting to see new heart supporters.

oh, and welcome to the forums all new heart supporters

But Victory isn't a general club, it represents Melbourne (Victoria even) - look at its strip, the big V. Heart is a general club, it doesn't represent anyone - maybe a style of football but that is yet to be seen.

Yeah I agree about the centralised stadiums, it's likely that all Melbourne clubs will play there. However it's not to say that a club can't have a training base/social club in a specific area, engage with local clubs and community, get some local investment into the club (like NQF have done - with a population base of ~160K), integrate themselves into one area of Melbourne. At the moment they are a virtual team.

Heart to flunk next year.
Manager sacked.
4k crowds.
Merge with Auckland City.
Dies.

Hey I heard Victory lost on the weekend?

Hey i heard we are Second on the later with a game in hand.
I also heard we are currently playing the best title defense in the History of the A-League.
Hey i also heard we have won the Championship twice. Hey i also heard we have ended up Premiers twice.


I Heard we're going to Asia this year.

are you?
=]

Edited by LickMyLovePump: 11/1/2010 01:22:06 PM

It no more represents Melbourne than Heart will. It is a general club just the same as every other team in the League. Seems to me that you are taking the view that Victory is some sort of elitist club. It isn't! It is just a successful club at the moment.