Yeah i hear that 'Qatar Superstars League' (QSL) is a mighty strong domestic competition.:-s

Edited by Vaughn2111: 25/5/2010 11:00:44 PM

:lol:

We beat Ireland which was full of EPL players, Japan which you admitted and drew with the Dutch who have one of the strongest squads in the World Cup. Maybe you forgot...

Edited by Woodbonk: 25/5/2010 11:00:32 PM

As I've said on countless occasions, he's tactically inept. He HAS the players there to play very nice football. Does he use them? No.

Like Kuwait, China, Indonesia, Singapore and the other glamorous nations that we failed to beat?

He actually had to beat a team ranked inside the top 50 in the world to do so.

Like victories over Kuwait, China, Indonesia, Singapore...oh...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't our notorious 4-2-3-1 formation originally chosen to suit all of our better players- the likes of Grella, Culina, Cahil, Kewell, Bresciano and Viduka?

Why is it that this formation is soo overused for our national team?

It is true, Scotty Mac doesn't fit into this system (Ans its not fucking Pim's system) but why is it that the Australian management team is reluctant to change this formation?

We seem to be relying a lot on the fitness of a mid ranking player in the Turkish league for our success. Most of our players play in lower level European leagues. You're kidding yourself if you think we can challenge the world's best.

BTW You forgot the Irish game and Japan as well.

The thing about Hiddink at the world cup is yes he only played with one striker...and then he subbed on Cahill, Kennedy and Aloisi...with Thompson in reserve.

Forgot about Ireland, I;ll admit.

And against Holland, we were very lucky. A penalty and a red card won that game for us.

C'mon its not 'luck' when we win and poor coaching when we lose. We won and that's it. I give Pim credit for those results. Wait till Arnold takes over you can go ballistic then.

We played with one up front because Viduka is exactly the kind of player who is best at that role. We had two DMs playing at the peak of their game playing in top leagues (Grella and Culina).

Now, Grella is out of fitness and form, Dukes is gone.

We're reluctant to change it because Pim doesn't know how to do anything else. All his eggs are in one basket now.

:lol: If Arnold picks the job back up I'll just laugh at the hopelessness of it all.

Haha its worse than a nightmare.

That's exactly what it is. Our win over the Netherlands and Japan were nothing but luck. The only reason we've been winnning is because Schwarzer is in the best form of his career and that can't last forever.

There's no way Arnold will take over again.

We rely on a mid-ranking player being able to support Timmy Cahill, it doesn't matter who it is, but it so happens that time and again it's Harry Kewell. Because the lad has the ability to be one of the best on his day.

The reason we play 4-2-3-1 is because pim can't put together a coherent attacking 4-3-3 because he doesn't grasp the concept of attacking football. We were playing 4-1-2-2-1 switching to 4-4-2 under Hiddink and it worked because of the way Hiddink had the lads playing, which is far removed from what Verbeek does.

It's all Pim's System, as head coach he takes responsibility for this and plays the players in their most effective formation. Which isn't happening. We don't have the players to play 4-2-3-1 effectively anymore because we don't have Viduka, adjustments SHOULD have been made, but they haven't.

It is way too late to be changing systems now...we live and die now with our 4-2-3-1

This is what i was trying to get at. Apologies if my 'rookie-ness' didn't portray this point properly. :lol:

Also, i despise our 4-2-3-1 being called 'Pim's system', becasue its not. It's a recycled formation that is redundant now. The label of 'his system' just shows how unimaginative he is with formations, and the dropping of Macdonald furthers this point as we now have no variation in our striking dept.

Yeah, you're right. It's way too late now to have tactical adaptability and flexibility.

You know what ill be overseas when the World Cup is on soooo....if the boys play shit and look very boring then thank god i wouldnt have see what the reaction will be like if we get smashed by Germany, Ghana and co. THEWWWW!!!

scott mcdonald is rubbish, glad pim woke up and made the call, next one i would cut with regret is bresciano, i see us having too many mf and he isn't fit nor "got it atm, would rather see the energetic oar and vidosic make the cut

I tend to think everyone is judging him in his performances for Australia alone. Realistically, he is the best performing Australian stiker in league competition.

Interesting point with Bresciano, i agree that he his not in the best form however we need his experience in the World Cup. It would be irrational to cut him from the squad, not too outrageous if he sits out of the starting side for a few games.

Edited by Vaughn2111: 26/5/2010 12:01:36 AM

Realistically, I'd say trotters has never actually seen Bresc or McDonald play outside of a handful of socceroos games.

I reckon if we weren't in Asia, and playing against Uruguay in the play-offs, I don't think we would have won this time around.

Last World Cup I had so much confidence that we would get through the group stage, we were well prepared.

This time around I have no confidence that we will get through our group, and Pim saying that we can't win the world cup is a stupid statement, I know his being realistic but how do the players feel, they would be thinking he doesn't believe it them, I don't care if your Fiji the manager should never say your not going to win it when your one of the 32 teams competing in the world cup.
but gee I hope I'm wrong

Edited by Bourkie11: 26/5/2010 12:20:46 AM

afromanGT your the reason i never feel i can actually say what i think on this site anymore, bloody moron, ive watched both for many years, literally scott can;t hack it at international level! never mind these excuses about Pim's system and secondly bresch is one of my favourite players but i feel he is just not up to it and his position could be taken by someone that is fit and ready to go. so fuck off mate.

His reasons for that were legitimate, we haven't got the depth and the talent that the world class teams have. However Pim saying we won't win the WC is completely different to not believing in his players, he made that very clear.
In fact many of the players have come out and said that if we play to our potential anything can happen in the knockout stages, so this indeed is a reflection that there is some form of internal belief that we can achieve something.

Afroman/Trotter: lets try to argue the point, not the user making it.

It's probably more that you turn into a whiney bitch whenever someone questions your contention, but whatever you gotta keep telling yourself. This is a forum, not a love fest. People are going to disagree with you. So stop being a fucking whiny little c,unt and harden the fuck up, alright?

You genuinely believe that a player played out of position or using tactics that dont' work for them means they're automatically shit?

Do you really think Torres would be half the player he is if people kept firing crosses at his face. Or Messi would be half as prolific at left back?

Your statement shows how little you understand about the tactical side of football. When you've got one player up front, he's a poacher and he gets NO support, of course he's not going to score. But he still managed to bring other players into the game the other night and that's a mark of his quality.

Of course Bresciano's position could be filled by someone who is fit. But the question is, can they bring as much to the table as he does with his technical ability and vast knowledge and experience? The answer is no, not really. There are very few players who can play between the lines on the right side with the same competence he has.

Fuck I hate Pim and his tactics and selections for his one dimensional defensive scrap for a point.

Why didn't the prick decide to leave for Moroccan lamb before the WC and not after!

I think you will find that Bresc will be given a chance to prove his fitness and form. Garcia is there as his cover and will go as one of the extra four, along with Oar and Holland. The last to be dropped will probably be Milligan. I think Lowry has to go as cover for Chippers. Carney is simply not a LB - but does add something in attack - and we need whatever we can get there.

Unlike many here I actually think that 4-2-3-1 does play to our strengths. To do well at a World Cup you have to have defence first. Realistically with Schwarzer, Chippers, Lucas, Wilkshire and anyone but Moore, plus two screeners we have that.

I think that dropping McDonald was a big mistake. I agree he doesn't fit out system. The problem comes though when we have to get points out of a game ala the Japan game in 2006. 4-2-3-1 will not work then. The system WILL change in that instance, and we won't have Scott there.



Edited by patjennings: 26/5/2010 01:14:26 AM

Who do you play up front then, Pat? And do you play kewell and bresc as natural wingers or more as inside forwards pushing up inside (hee hee).

I can see Verbeek playing this formation (assuming everyone is fit):
Kewell
Bresciano Emerton
Cahill
Grella Culina
Chipperfield Neill Moore Wilkshire
Schwarzer

This gives him the option of using Kennedy and Rukavytsya if we are chasing the game (I actually think Pim might surprise us by using more than one striker if we find ourselves in that situation)
I also realise that Kewell isn't a natural forward, but he has played comfortably there before in the past.

Probably better off putting Wilkshire at LB, Vidosic on the right wing and Emerton at RB.

Pim can't get his head around the concept of multiple strikers on the pitch in one game, that's never going to happen.