fatronaldo we lost 2-0 to brazil not 4-0 and we had decent goal difference.

If we move on there's a few positives to take forward for the remaining games. Germany will quite easily beat Serbia and Ghana by the same scoreline, lets not rely on it but it will make it easier for us over the next two matches. If we beat Ghana and Germany open them up, its all to play for. Serbia are out, full stop. Apart from getting behind our own team, lets hope Germany can do a job for us. Its far from over guys.

I hope Pim brings Dave Carney into the mix for the Ghana game, we need the creativity, he is our x factor, not Nikita

eannot rely on the GER V GHA result. Especially if Germany have already qualified. Germany will rest players, will ommit players on yellow cards, and will not attack with the same gusto and flair that they did against us.

WE MUST WIN BOTH OF OUR NEXT GAMES TO HAVE ANY CHANCE OF THE NEXT ROUND!!

Last world cup against Brazil we played well against them. We shut their main player down well and should've scored a few. i especially remember Kewells chance that he fucked up where the goals were open. As for this game. Even though Cahill was red carded, germany were still the better team and we didnt deserve to win. It was good to see Emerton get a good run and he looked alright. Garcia as well, who was unlucky not to score. when Ruka came on I thought he did really well. His speed was very hard on the Germans. I really would like to see him start against ghana. Our defence was shit, especially niell. Someone wanna tell me why the fuck Cahill was the lone man up front in the first place? Its as we asupected. Pim couldn't give a sit about us. He said that we had all 23 players fit and available. Well that should mean we should;ve been able to play our full strenght line up, so why the fuck did he send out a line up which was missing bresc, kewell and or even kennedy.

May as well add my 2c

But same as everyone said.

Cahill is not a lone striker.
Garcia did surprizingly well.
Moore is useless
Holman should start he provided something in attack and linked well with ruka

Pim has no clue.

Germany will open up Ghana even with a 'b' team

Vince Grella: "F..ck no-one died. It's a game of football. They are very good. We knew they were going to be a tough opposition. We just have to sleep it off and start again tomorrow." haha love vinnie, his just cut he didnt get sent off 1st.

Bosnich


http://www.foxsports.com.au/football/video/0,,Castrol%20Edge%20Report_36306,00.html

And by the way, we can rely on Germany playing a full strength side (or close to) for the Ghana game, they will not want to run the risk of a round of 16 clash with England (Provided England start playing football).

End result - we cannot rely on this but Germany can assist us provided we bring the goods for the next two matches.

Disgusting performance by some key experienced players, especially Grella, Neill, Moore and Chipperfield. Ghana will cut as apart if changes are not make, Holman was one of the only players to look dangerous after he came on.
My team for Ghana, playing a 352, though we know Pim is to much of a dick to do that:
Schwarzer
Beauchump, Neill, Milligan
Culina, Wilkshire
Emerton, Holman, Bresiano
Kewell, Kennedy
With a team like this we actually give the impression that we plan to attack and look dangerous, Ruka could come on for Kewell late in the game for extra mobility and pace, and Milligan and Beauchamp get the nod just because they have the pace and mobility to play in a 3 man backline

Edited by manufan4life: 14/6/2010 04:09:26 PM

It wasn't Verbeek's fault, in my opinion. The players simply did not do their jobs well & let the coach & each other down. :oops:

I can see what he was trying to achieve by playing with Garcia, which was that he is more mobile than Kennedy & could run & pressure the German defenders from the front. Kennedy doesn't do the same & he can't run that much. Garcia was playing as centre forward with Cahill in behind.

Harry wasn't an option just yet apparently. I suspect Pim was gonna use him off the bench if the situation was right. ( Later on 3 - 0 down with 10 men was not the time or place to use a recuperating Harry). Pim saved him wisely for Ghana & Serbia. [-o<

Not starting with Bresciano & Kennedy also makes sense. Kennedy has been in so-so form in the lead up games, he's good in the air but so are the German central defenders. Bresciano has been a bit underdone & so playing Culina in his place was made to help Chipperfield cope with Lamm down that side. It didn't work & it was the worst I have seen Chippers play. Valeri had been playing well in the warm up games & deserved his spot. Indeed Valeri & Wilkshire didn't go to water like Moore, Schwarzer, Neill & Chippers did.

So, the game starts, all not bad for about 10 mins. Moore makes a mistake, they cut us open Schwarzer timid, lets the goal in. ( Theory Schwarzer, never exactly a brave keeper in commanding his area has talked himself into problems with wearing stupid camera glasses re these Jubalani balls, making him more hesitant than ever ).
We keep attacking, in our original plan to keep Germany on the back foot and honest. Try to play offside again & cop a second goal.
Then Cahill gets himself sent off ( Mexican quick draw ref aside ) amongst other indisciplined " poor us " displays.

2 - 0 with ten men, Pim brings on Holman & Ruka who can run all day, like the wind to try to cover that we are 10 men with plenty of time to go against a very good German team.
3 - 0, damage is already done, 4 - 0. Game ends. #-o

Our defence for the first 50 mins was offside trap, German attacker stands just offside, our defence play offside, German midfielder runs through defence from onside, pass comes to that player, our defence screaming offside re 1st attacker who is not interfering with play, goal. Defence have hurt feelings & eat some worms. ](*,) Repeat over again.
Moore gets himself yellow carded for abuse & Neill lucky not to be.

Bad day at the office but Pim's fault was earlier, in selection choosing Moore for the squad, then playing him. Moore & Neill are too slow to play together, if Moore was to be picked at all it should have been as a back up to Neill. Ogenovski should have been there instead or, Beauchamp ( I thought I would never say that ).

Best Aussie players were Emerton, Wilkshire, Valeri. Boy we have missed Emerton previously. He showed nous, composure & skill & did his job. Only the other two did likewise. =d>

Harry wasn't ready to play at the start, for the whole of this game. Kennedy wasn't going to outplay two tall German central defenders. Scott McDonald isn't mobile enough to have done the job up front in the circumstances of this game.

Simply put you can't get a result at the World cup against Germany when only 3 or so of your starting players do their job. =;


Where are you Riv? You normally have something positive & insightful to say.

Well, lets start from the beginning, shall we?

There were a few suprises (and mistakes, in my opinion) in the lineup. I think everyone shares the belief that Cahill should not have started up front.
I can see why Pim was in that corner though. Kennedy has been playing poorly, and Kewell is not fit. Just a shame he didn't have another experienced striker in the squad for a situation like this...

The defining trait of Cahill's game is the fact the always arrives late in the box. This makes him hard to pick up and is the reason he scores so many goals. Playing as lone striker, he is the focus of the defence, and it is harder for him to lose his man. I know it worked well when he played it for Everton last season, but he always had players coming forward to help him out.

I'm also baffled with the decision to include Garcia. A player who played less than 20 games for Hull this season, and was just coming off the back of a fairly bad injury.

He said he dropped Bresciano in favour of Culina on the left, so he could contain Lahm. He then switched Culina and put Garcia to the left. Interesting move, Pim.

Now, lets look at the game in general.

The decision to play a high defensive line was a very, very dangerous game indeed. With the explosive pace of the Germans, and our lack of it, it was always going to be hard to contain them. They had so many runners always moving into the channels, it was impossible to stay with all of them.

However, we stood off the ball carrier too often, in favour of tracking the runners. This let the carrier wait for the perfect time to play a pass, and with the quality of the Germans, more often than not they found the man they were looking for.

Khadira and Schweinsteiger (sp?) ensured that the transition from defence was instantaneous. With one ball they could completely split us open. The two holding midfielders also got forward to support the play a lot.

Chippers has come into a lot of stick but I don't think he was at fault for too much. He made an error or two early on, but I thought he played alright. I certainly wouldn't start Carney ahead of him. Carney at left back is a liability.

Valeri had quite a good game, and didn't make any glaring errors that I can recall. Grella did not look assured once again, but didn't make any howlers like he did against the USA.

Emerton was fantastic, a beacon amongst the rest of the murk on the field. Never afraid to take the man on, and almost always did something with the ball.

I think Pim made a few key errors this game and the Germans exposed our weaknesses with a ferocity that we have never seen. This doesn't mean we will definitely lose the next two games - We just need to show some of our trademark Australian spirit and come out firing against Ghana. I hope we are allowed to.

Rukavystya impressed me a lot when he came on. Had some very nice touches. Holman was also quite good when he came on, but once they got the 3rd and 4th he quietened down, as he didn't see much of the ball.

Ozil is an absolute machine. Incredible player. They have so many amazing players who are all under 25. Khadira, Ozil, Mueller and Neuer to name but a few.



Don't let your heads drop boys, it's not over yet!!!



Edited by imnofreak: 14/6/2010 04:24:18 PM

cahill deserved to get a red he's a dirty twat, could of broken that germans legs, trying to say he lost his balance what a mug he his and he's ruined your whole world cup...he got away with it on leo bertos but your at the world cup now and he finally got found out...enjoy it on the telly Tim!!

Exactly. Don't blame Verbeek, he has little to chose from. Even the US has more players in European Leagues than we do. Our Harry is not at Barcelona, he's at Galatasaray. Cahill and Schwarzer are our only world class players now. We have A leaguers running around against Bayern Munich players.

Verbeek is an excellent coach who had to take a chance with his formation. It nearly worked. Had Garcia scored, as he should have, the story may have been different.

If we have a world class squad and then lose we could blame the coach but we haven't.

I have repeated myself time and time again....Grella has not had a good game in an Australian jersey since July 2006.

Yep perfect time to shake things up in a World Cup opener against the best team in the group.

don't blame pim fella's, i blame the FFA's bargain hunting foray's in getting a quality coach for the greatest show on earth, the writing was on the wall during our asian qualies. Guus was money well spent, this other guy has no idea,

You must have double vision. There were 18,000 there. That's why they had to shut-up-shop with an hour to go. The maximum capacity was 18,000.

AS A NATIONAL TEAM COACH IT IS PIMS RESPONSIBILITY TO PLAY A SYSTEM THAT SUITS HIS PLAYERS, NOT TRY CHANGE THE PLAYERS TO SUIT HIS SYSTEM. sick of fucking pim getting given the benefit of the doubt. yes our chances of winning were minimal whatever the system and the players did awful but we could have done much better then that with better player selection and adaquete tactics.

If pim insists on playing his 4-2-3-1 AT LEAST INCLUDE THE 1 STRIKER. Cahill plays great coming in behind the striker and was clearly frustrated being up front. GARCIA, GRELLA, MOORE, CHIPPERS have gotta go. move culina back to his central dm position, include a striker and we might play more acceptable. my line up using pims system (which really looks more a 4-4-1-1 lately) for ghana would be.

............Schwarzer..............
Wilkshire..Neill..Beauchamp..Carney
..........Culina....Valeri.........
Emerton...................Bresciano
..........Holman...................
.................Kennedy...........

That is assuming Kewell and Cahill arent available. Almost want to put ruka instead of Kennedy as he looked impressive but we seem to be mainly using long balls and set pieces for goal chances so kennedy needs to be there for headers. Really hope we can turn it around i am dissapointed some in this forum seem to have given up on the team i have no faith in the manager but i believe in the players and hope we can turn it around. i will still be there freezing my ass off in the city for the serbia and ghana games no matter what! CMON SOCCEROOS!

Edited by jamo91: 14/6/2010 05:03:32 PM

imnofreak is right. its not over til its over. if verbeek learns his lesson and plays kewell, bresciano, emerton, and kennedy from the whistle, we have a chance. the defense was exposed so at the very least they will know what to improve upon / changes will hopefully be made.

i hope australia crushes ghana and restores the pride of australian football. COME ON SOCCEROOS!

Germany 4-0 Australia: Germany excellent, but quality exaggerated by poor Australian tactics
June 14, 2010

The first-half line-ups
We’ve now seen half of the 32 teams that will be contesting this tournament, and whilst we haven’t yet sampled the three most exciting sides – Holland, Brazil and Spain – it is undeniable that Germany have been by far the most impressive so far.

The starting XIs

Germany lined up as predicted – with an attacking band of three behind Miroslav Klose. In defence Philip Lahm started in the right-back role he’s become used to at Bayern this season, whilst his club teammate Holger Badstuber came in on the left.

Australia sprung a slight surprise in their starting line-up, as they fielded no conventional striker. Instead they played a loose 4-4-2 shape with Tim Cahill just behind Richard Garcia, who tended to drift towards his usual right-wing position.

German brilliance

Firstly, the Germans were fantastic. The technical quality of individuals was remarkable – almost every outfield player comfortable on the ball. Bastian Schweinsteiger and Sami Khedira passed the ball quickly and intelligently from the centre of midfield, whilst the timing of Lukas Podolski and Thomas Muller’s runs was exceptional. Philip Lahm provided a constant outlet on the right-hand side and Miroslav Klose’s movement upfront dragged the two Australian centre-backs around all game. Most impressive of all was Mesut Ozil, who picked up the ball in a variety of positions, but invariably ended up playing it into a dangerous area.

One has to question the tactics of Pim Verbeek, however. His decision to omit Josh Kennedy, their usual striker, hinted that he would try and pack the midfield with six players, or leave Cahill on his own upfront and get midfield runners supporting him. Instead, the reason Verbeek selected that XI was because he wanted intense pressing from the front of the pitch, with each Australian working hard to close down the Germany players, even when the centre-backs received the ball from Manuel Neuer on the edge of their own area.
The idea was to stop Germany building from the back, but their back four were relatively comfortable even when subjected to pressure from Australia’s forwards and wingers, with Lahm and Arne Freidrich in particular happy to take a touch and play a simple pass sideways, and Germany managed to play their way out of the back quite easily.



Not only was the pressing unsuccessful in forcing the German defence into mistakes, it also caused problems further back, in five separate ways.

Why Australia’s pressing failed

Firstly, if you ask your forwards to close down, you need your midfielders to do the same, to prevent an easy ball into midfield. The knock-on effect of this is that your defence then has to play a high line, to prevent players between the lines getting too much time on the ball. Therefore, Lucas Neill and Craig Moore were playing an extremely high defensive line against pacey players like Klose, Podolski and Muller, and it was so easy for Germany to knock the ball through the Australian backline to their forwards rushing onto the ball.

Secondly (on a related note), with Germany playing two direct wingers and three players capable of playing a defence-splitting pass, the high line of the Australian defence meant that the angle of the through-ball between the centre-backs and full-backs, towards an onrushing winger, was very easy. This is an extremely popular ball in modern football (at Barcelona, for example – Inter’s deep line against them in the second leg of their Champions League semi-final made it an impossible pass to play) and Muller and Podolski thrived on it all day.

Thirdly, and most crucially, it’s difficult to press effectively if you have a numerical disadvantage in the centre of midfield, as was the case for Australia in this game. In a straight 4-4-2 v 4-4-2, it’s relatively easy as each player has a direct opponent in front of them to close down. With a 4-4-2 v 4-2-3-1, however, Australia were leaving Germany’s main playmaker with time and space on the ball. Australia’s forwards pressed the centre-backs, their wingers pressed the full-backs – but when the central midfielders did the same to Khedira and Schweinsteiger, it left Ozil free. Or, even if they didn’t press them, it was still Germany’s three creative midfielders up against Australia’s two in the centre of midfield, with the Australian wingers out of the game in a defensive sense. Ozil was allowed the ball, and used it brilliantly.

Fourthly, it “forced” Germany to move the ball swiftly from defence to attack, which played into their hands considering the good technical qualities of their midfielders and the direct nature of their wingers. They were happy to conduct lightning-quick counter-attacks, and the fact Australia were actively attempting to move up the pitch suited Germany perfectly.


Finally, it’s simply not the way to play against Germany. “We always have trouble playing against teams that pack their defence, just as we did against Azerbaijan”, said Philip Lahm after his side could only draw with Finland last October. With this in mind, playing high up the pitch was precisely the opposite strategy of what was required.

Australia switch formation

Australia shifted to 4-3-3 for the final 15 minutes of the first half, and after being briefed on their new instructions by Verbeek at half-time, and with Brett Holman replacing the out-of-sorts Vince Grella, looked like getting more of a hold on the game in the second half. Germany no longer dominated possession because they didn’t have an extra man in the centre of midfield, with Carl Valeri dropping deep to pick up Ozil, who was less visible in the second half.

How effective it would have been in getting Australia back in the match, we shall never know, because it was game over as soon as Cahill was dismissed just before the hour.

Conclusion

Australia were poor both technically and tactically, and the loss of Cahill for the next game against Ghana (at least) is a huge blow. They lacked creativity in wide areas and a natural striker, and barely posed a goal threat aside from set-pieces.

Their lack of quality makes it difficult to judge Germany, but they did look very, very good. They retained the ball in midfield very well but also moved it forward quickly when needed, and the most impressive thing was that the players were all on the same wavelength despite the fact it is a relatively new XI.

They were not tested defensively and the two central midfielders rarely had to track any midfield runs or get tackles in, but each player was composed on the ball and understood their role well. Muller and Podolski worked hard on the flanks and Ozil was given something approaching a free role – drifting deep and to the right, and taking advantage of the fact no-one was picking him up. The next match against Ghana will be a much more rigorous test, but Germany are a fine team.


http://www.zonalmarking.net/2010/06/14/germany-4-0-australia-germany-tactics/#more-3515

The Maximum they could allow in for safety reasons was 18,000. It reached that level about an hour for kickoff. I agree, they could have aloud a few more people in, especially around the giant ball screen, but i spoke to a couple of cops and they said that the limit was 18,000 at that had been reached just after 3am.

We didn't lose because of Pim, he picked the best team he had available, albeit his tactics are $#!t.

We didn't lose because of Moore, Grella, Bresc, Chippers etc. It's not their fault they're too old, too slow, too injured, whatever. I actually applaud them for having the balls to step-up again when they shouldn't have to.

We lost because in 4 years NO-ONE else has stepped-up to replace the likes of Moore, Grella, Bresc, Chippers etc. I'm looking at you Sarkies, Milligan, Kilkenny, Brosque, Dilevski, Thwaite, McKain, Holman, Ward, Carney, Beauchamp, and all your too-many-to-mention mates)

In 1999 we finished second to Brazil in U17 world Cup. Today those players should be in their prime (28yo). How many of them are in the current world cup squad? ONE!

Scariest thing is, it's only gonna get worse.

I agree with everything you said, especially the EPL style tackling, which is not allowed anywhere else in the civilised world ( this does not include all English, Scottish, A league or local Sunday leagues ). When are we gonna wake up to that? It is just plain dumb. ](*,)

So your changing the line-up/general play that has been relatively successful (albeit very boring) for the last 2 and a half years to include a journeyman in garcia and play your best player out of position in cahill in order to take out one of your most creative players in bresciano and your striker that suits the longball/set piece game we played isnt pim's fault!?!?!

Yes quite a few players havent stepped up but beauchamp did look well when he played in the friendlies and moore has looked awful most of them. Jedinak has also looked good in patches compared to grellas awful form. There are a couple of players pushing the older players for spots but pim needs to give them a damn chance

Edited by jamo91: 14/6/2010 05:20:13 PM

Agreed imnofreak. Spot on with Emerton comments especially.

I must admit to having a bit of a chuckle at the result at 1st (mainly based on some of the comments chucked at NZ on this forum) but am now worried about our games against Italy & especially Paraguay(sp?) who are very quick in attack. NZs saving grace is that the right and left back are a lot younger & faster than Aus but are also a lot less experienced so we to could be in for a bit of a leason.

It was a bit of a footballing leason but I think if you guys learn from this you still have a more than fair chance of getting a result out of the next 2 games. A draw against Ghana is a must, I think you can win against Serbia but it may come down to goal difference in the end.

A great leason how to play the game, good passing, great running off the ball and good finishing. This is the style of play A Leagues clubs should be aiming for as opposed to the more physical game that is currently played.

The Socceroos just have to put the game behind them, learn from it & get back in the saddle.

Well very few of us expected to gain points of Germany. It was always going to be about progessing from our games with Ghana and Serbia. The worst thing is we lost 4-0, our confidence took a bit of a hit.

No point blaming kids that some of you are saying have not come on/developed. Pim and Arnold will not play them that's the problem. Our best kids are home in Australia on holidays from Europe. The way we played the whole side will be in Turkey playing for GALA' by start of July.

theyre not good enough man, gala is a quality side