hmmm

+1 to Decentric's post. No-one has replied to it yet either :-k


It's an interesting issue, considering what's coming up. How easy is it in Asia? The Asian teams have done well at the WC, as did NZ, which is relevant because part of qualifying through Asia involved playing NZ.

Teams who beat Asian teams & NZ at WC:

Brazil
Argentina
Germany
Netherlands
Portugal
Cote d'Ivoire

Not a bad group of teams there, certainly no disgrace in being beaten by any of them I think (except, admittedly, for some of the scorelines)

Teams who couildn't beat Asian teams or NZ at WC, and would therefore probably testify that qualifying through Asia is no walk in the park, despite what people on this forum keep saying:

Italy
Serbia
Denmark
Paraguay
Ghana
Cameroon
Slovakia
Greece
Nigeria

Our results at the 2007 Asian Cup (before Pim was there) would also suggest Asia is not a walk in the park.


In hindsight, could've been 6 I guess. I assume you're talking about beating Ghana and Serbia. Maybe a day will come where Australia pencil in an 'automatic 3 points' each against Serbia and Ghana, but that day certainly hasn't come yet.


Like most people here, I would've picked a different squad, and can see how we should've gone about the Germany game differently, but in my opinion, we most likely would've lost that game regardless of the line-up, tactics or the manager.

Remember that Hiddink with Russia couldn't avoid defeat to Germany in 2 attempts (home & away) in WC Qualifying, and he had a pretty handy group of players to choose from there.

It shouldn't really matter what we think of Pim now, because he's leaving anyway, but I can say with near certainty that if people aren't happy with our results under Pim, they are setting themselves up for another disappointment with our next coach. There is a good chance he won't be able to deliver on our now sky-high expectations.

thought this was a serious thread for sec.

Decentric, thanks for your post - my thoughts also. It'll be tough for the next manager through Asia to get the same level of results.

P 33
W 18
D 9
L 6

The 2011 Asian Cup is a criticle juncture for the Socceroos. Winning it provides a tournament of high quality for our players in the 2013 Confed Cup - remember it is the 2010 squad who were mostly blooded in 1997. Finishing in the top 4 means that you don't have to qualify next time round, double edged as these qualifiers would instead be only friendlies.

Edited by Mr: 25/6/2010 05:49:43 PM

+1000

i have the fucking right to believe that the ripple effect can cause such events to happen.
and no, 4-0 loss to germany, or any team, is out of character for them. they can play better. we have the players, we have the talent. we have seen them play well, but it was the tactical decisions which fucked it up.

if they had played against germany, like they did last night against serbia right off the bat, then a win would have been possible, a draw more realistic.

MOST of the game with 10 men? wasn't he out on the 56th minute, when they were 2-0 down, then from there germany slotted another 2?

germany were not impressive at all. we were liturally not intimidating them nor playing the way we should have. if we have done so, then it would have been a different outcome.

but like i said in my previous post "COULD HAVE, SHOULD HAVE, IT DOESNT MAKE A FUCKING DIFFERENCE NOW"....incase you missed it.

Any link for the Dutch media interview?

sorry Pim, not good enough, not your fault i blame our FFA, i'd even be worried about Argentina getting out of the group stage if you were their coach, and if that interview with the Dutch press is true then good ridance muppet

News starting to filter through about Verbeek having a press conference after Germany game with Dutch media and baggin Australian players, and Australian Football.

Make no mistake this balding dick had nothing to do with the last two results it was all about the boys

To provide an alternative view there are a few things worth considering.


Compare 2006's World Cup group.

Japan

Croatia

Brazil

2010

Ghana

Serbia

Germany


It is highly plausible that Ivory Coast was a better side than Japan in 2006.

it is highly plausible that Serbia is better than Croatia was in 2010.

Germany is probably not as agood as Brazil in 2006.

It is highly probable this year's group was tougher. Independently considered the second hardest group by pundits in other parts of the world, with us considered the weakest team.


We suffered the controversial dismissal of Cahill in the 55th minute in the first match. Australia had its best period of the match in the 45 minute to 55 minute period before Cahill was sent off.

We suffered another equivocal send off in Kewell at the 23rd minute mark. Addy of Ghana committed a worse tackle than Cahill did in the German match when he was ejected from the pitch.
Kewell had two penalty appeals turned down before he was sent off. He was playing well. With a different referee we could have been playing 11 v 10 with a penalty awarded and Ghana's penalty dismissed.
Wilkshire had the best chance to score which wasn't converted in the Ghana game. If he had converted we would be going through to the next round.

Australia's victory againt Serbia is our greatest performance at a World Cup. It was more open football in the second half.

We had more unfavourable refereeing decisions than favourable ones over the three matches..

Australia got 4 points, the same as 2006. This time we played three halves out of six with 10 men, in a more difficult group. The 4 points we got can be considered to have been more meritorious than 2006 if one value adds.

Most other teams at the World Cup played a 4-2-3-1, a derivative of 4-3-3. The two screener system is common in Europe to counter the great ability of modern teams to counterattack.

The match plan in the forst game was plausible. If it had come off Verbeek would have been labelled a genius. The players claimed they didn't execute the plan effectively against Germany.

Given the logistics, qualification for the Asian and World Cup was very difficult in Asia.

This World Cup we have seen new players who have not been previously considered good enough who've stepped up and are still young enough.

Holman
Valeri
Wilkshire
Beauchamp

For the record I've extolled Holman's virtues for the last two tears. The only difference is at the moment he has been clinical around goal as opposed to profligate. His profligacy was what upset fans.

Verbeek took over a squad demoralised after a poor Asian Cup performance with a coach, Graham Arnold, who thought it would be very difficult to qualify through Asia.

Many outside this country consider we have too high an expectation for the Socceroos. Few of them play in the top teams in Germany, Spain, Italy, England and France. Few of our players are in teams who are in the last 16 UEFA Champions' League teams.

Top European club managers don't rate our players.

In the last World Cup nobody knew about us. Nobody rated us and probably did scant homework and preparation for us. We slipped under the radar. There wouldn't have been many videos around showing how we play. This time our opponents had all the Asian qualifiers to scrutinise us playing competitive matches. Before the 2006-2010 epoch we basically played friendlies as preparation.

All in all this encapsulates Verbeek's tenure as coach. He made us a difficult team to beat. Our worst result was against one of the top teams in the world Germany. They also played very good football against us. If Garcia had scored in the first few minutes when it was cleared off the line, the young German players could've panicked.

When one elucidates all these factors maybe some can see Verbeek's tenure in a different light.
Guus Hiddink couldn't qualify with Russia. This a nation which boasts the 6th strongest domestic league in Europe. Guus' tenure of Russia was a failure. He didn't qualify for the 2010 WC with a good team.

Guus had no logistical problems in traversing Asia, like Pim. He had to travel very short distances with his team.

Asian teams look like the big improvers at this year's World Cup. We qualified top in Asia.

Just presenting a different view.


Edited by Decentric: 24/6/2010 10:20:48 PM

+ 1 =d>

Thanks Pim for your great work in getting us to the World Cup. You did it with virtually the same core of players as the 2006 team. We were unable to provide you with any rising talent, so it was the same old line up I'm afraid. Despite this, you did wonders to get us there and to just miss out on the last 16.

The people on this thread will only 'get it' when they get a dose of Graham Arnold again.

Shouldn’t this thread be in Extra Time :(?

afro, I coudn't be bothered doing a re-re-re-requote, but just a couple of things:

- the fool who follows the fool refers to the FFA, our governing body, they appointed Pim
- Pim had the balls to continually choose Holman over Carle, the majority of fans and media criticised him over it, including myself.
- Kewell's a big boy now, and a professional footballer. I'm sure he knows the handball rules without Pim having to instruct him.
- Of course Pim must have learnt a hell of a lot, but he's not going to give us the satisfaction of making a public statement about it.
- Finally you're completely wrong about Hiddink singing the anthem, here I found your video for you. (and you say I make outrages claims?)
[youtube][/youtube]

Thank you for numbing the creativity and attacking flair out of our team and reverting to a system that did not suit our players and produced awful football. Add to that many a confusing player selection and his stunt against germany and afraid we wont be missing you pim. Dont let the door hit you on the way out.

Yes, but unlike a normal person making mistakes. He stated that he hadn't learned anything. Any normal human being would have learned something from that. TO admit fault and say you haven't learned anything suggests that you'd do the same thing over again, which is to say...well, you're a fucking moron aren't you?

Pim is the kind of man who would stick a fork in a power socket and when electrified, do it all over again.

Chilugal agree that there are mistakes to be learnt from and the experiences of this cup should be used to build on in the future.

As far as Vinnie goes he was completly wrong, as Bill Shankly said "Some people believe football is a matter of life and death, I am very disappointed with that attitude. I can assure you it is much, much more important than that."

:d

Don't worry Tyson, it's a public forum. I'm just as disappointed as you, I don't know any Australian who isn't about the Germany result. In the end, the FFA chose Pim. Pim's a human being, he did his best and made mistakes on the way. If you're going to blame anyone, blame the FFA.

My opinion, thank the whole team, learn from the mistakes, and move on.

Actually, Grella says it best "F**k no one died. It's a game of football."

I'm not being bitter. That's the cold hard reality.

Re: Reason, it stands to reason that if Cahill hadn't been played up front he wouldn't have had lumps kicked out of him by Badsturber and wouldn't have been frustrated out of the game and wouldn't have been in that position to begin with.

I didn't particularly like the man. I didn't agree with his tactics and selection. I don't approve of his comments regarding the A-league. However credit where its due. He's taken us to the world cup. He's matched our best result (even though we didn't progress). He's helped us qualified for the Asian Cup. Furthermore he's also stole back a lot of the youngsters we thought were lost to other countries. So thanks Pim! Good luck and get a haircut.

afromanGT is on 100% on the money.

And Reason as far as him moving to the other side of the world and leaving his family, so f**king what? The guy is a professional coach, had spent many years away from home prior to that and gets paid $2 million a year to live in Australia and travel to Europe. The poor bloke my heart bleeds.

I think people have misinterpreted my sentiment in this thread, I am not disappointed by this world cup the boys were fantastic and put in some brilliant performances. Saying that I am disappinted by the coaching at this world cup, and I blame that for the first result against Germany. If it wasn't for the boys and their resilience we could have been badly embarressed and come home without a point.

I just don't think Pim is a very good coach, in fact I think he is a pretty bad one, thus why I am quite happy to see him fuck off.

Edited by Tyson_85: 24/6/2010 06:52:36 PM

I wrote ALL this:



And all you saw was this :



Nice one.

Some might say Frank Farina was our most succesful, he won the most trophies.

Some might say Les Scheinflug or Terry Venables were our most successful, they had the best win percentage.

Some might say that Guus Hiddink or Rale Rasic were our most successful, taking unfancied sides against superior opposition through qualifying to the world cup.

One thing's for sure, it's not Pim Verbeek.

People keep going on about how Pim qualified through asia. But qualifying through asia isn't nearly as hard as having to beat the 'runner up' qualifier from america. Qualifying through asia, four teams get a crack at the tournament, even five if you're lucky. To miss out there would be pathetic. To not be in the top five teams in asia would be embarrassing for australia and a cataclysmic failure.

It's no longer good enough to simply make it to the world cup. Good performances must come with it and the round of 16 should be a minimum expectation.

You can choose to remain bitter, truth is Pim is moving on and the players would want us to celebrate their successes. I'm going to enjoy the rest of the World Cup and hope Australia return to the big stage again.

Fuuuuuuuuuuck off.

Germany still could've beat us 4-0, such is how they were playing. We were playing most of the game with 10 men, after all.

"Thus also the frustration of being down 2-0 wouldnt have caused cahill to get his red either"

Are you Heineken in disguise, because this is probably one of the most retarded f*cking things ever uttered on this site.

While you're at at, why don't you blame Pim for Harry standing on the goal-line, and getting sent off for hand-ball?

What he said.

yes we can, and yes we fucking will.

no coach in their right state of mind continues to experiment once they are in the world cup.
a 1-0 loss would have been a more "acceptable" result than 4-0, and thus also the frustration of being down 2-0 wouldnt have caused cahill to get his red either.

yeah, could have, should have, its done, its over.

burt we deserve to shoot him like fucking red rover.

as they say, good riddance to bad rubbish.

Edited by coco84: 24/6/2010 06:14:47 PM

Pim Verbeek has been the most successful Australian National Team manager ever.

He moved to the other side of the World, away from his family to take up this post.

He got us to the World Cup (through Asia) and the Asian Cup.

He needs to be celebrated as such.

I can't believe how f*cking negative people are (well I can, this forum is full of f*ckwits)- there's no way you can blame not making the second round solely on Pim.

Well done, Pim - thank you very, very much for your efforts!