Apologies for the triple post, but I'm ridiculously optimistic for the new season if we can line up like this:




That is a top quality team, and far more balanced without RVP.

OMFG! this is proof he's joining Arsenal! Why else would he be getting into a car?

Looks like he just got out of said car, could be a sign deal is off.

to be honest would have preferred him to go to Spurs but don't really care, hopefully someone will make a decent youtube montage from him now as all you find at the moment is some of his free kicks (One against Real Madrid is awesome) even though he scored the most goals from outside the box in La Liga last season (around 7 I think). You should probably thank Levy for for this as they should have just gone and sold Modric for Real's original price then bought Cazorla quickly instead of dropping out as I would see him as a slight upgrade from Modric.

Edited by moofa: 30/7/2012 09:28:50 PM

I simply posted a picture. Read into it what you will. Im more convinced of the reports by the spanish newspaper who is officially affiliated with Malaga that claim a deal is 100% done.

I don't care what anyone says but a great prospect as a gk is not going to deliver you a title. ws is too carefree to be in the same league as casillas, buffon etc... he plays like a barthez. Great shot stopper but world class he ain't.

Not having to earn his place with competition from another strong keeper is not going to do him any favours in the long run. just my opinion.

We could have Gordan Banks in goal and we still won't win the league. Really not a big problem area to be honest; we need extra quality everywhere imo but the big thing for me is the lack of real quality without RVP/Fabregas/Nasri. How many players in our squad can you call world class? None really to be honest.

Don't know why you're picking on Chesney. In fact, I think you're the only person to have criticised him as an Arsenal keeper in about a year. The English press has been behind him lately and he's gotten a lot of praise from some big critics like our own Bob Wilson who called Chesney the "answer to our goalkeeping problems". He wasn't so nice to Almunia or Flappyhandski.

+1

Not picking on Szeszny per se, I mentioned our defence as a whole but was just called to explain my inclusion of WS in my overall criticism. My point, and I truly believe it's valid, is that he is not world class and not someone we can rely on to deliver us a title. Dortmund didn't rely on langerak for the Bundesliga nor should we be calling on a 21yo to hold our defence together. He's not Casillas (who was playing for RM and Spain in his early 20's) who is simply a freak.

If the Cazorla rumours are to be believed I don't think you could get away with saying he isn't world class.. whatever that means these days.
If Nasri is world class then I'm not sure what that makes Cazorla?
RVP out with Cazorla, Giroud, Podolksi and maybe Sahin? coming in doesn't leave us with too much to complain about.


I have to admit I think Szczesney gets a little tincy wincy bit overrated by Arsenal fans.
I'm optoimistic he will be great in the future but still has a long way to go.

Stats never show the whole story since theres many other factors to consider, but:
http://www.barriesview.com/2012/05/201112-premier-league-goalkeeper-stats
Wojciech has one of the worst save percentages of the first choice keepers in the EPL last year.

De Gea has a 78% save rate compared to Schzezneys 63%.
Ofcourse Szczesney may have other better attributes like dealing with long balls and commanding of the box yada yada, but those are still not good stats.

Said it yourself, stats are bollocks.

I don't see how Podolski/Giroud/Cazorla/Sahin are world class. Good players sure, but RVP/Fabregas and to some extent Nasri (certainly on the back of last season's form) could walk into any team on the planet. You simply cannot say the same about the players you've mentioned.

Look at our old sides: Sol Campbell, Thierry Henry, David Seaman, Patrick Viera, Dennis Bergkamp, Robert Pires, Cashley... these guys could've walked into most teams in the world. You just can't say the same about our lads today.

Forget winning the title, top four is our ambition.

Didn't actually say the stats are bollocks. They do mean something.

Also didn't say those four are world class. Just Cazorla. Could argue for Podolski or Sahin too depending on your definition of world class.
Santi is definitely better than Samir, cmon...


If you compare our signings to City and Chelsea ofcourse you're going to be underwhelmed. Those are basically cheats of the system that are hopefully being stamped out now with the new rules.
If you're not going to be happy unless our team is made up of the very best in the world and looks as impressive as the invincibles.. then you're never going to be happy.

Edited by neanderthal: 30/7/2012 11:58:22 PM

That's right, I want our team to be made up of the very best. I'm an Arsenal supporter not an accountant.

You said that stats "don't take into account other important factors". Lies damned lies and statistics right?

You can't possibly argue that Podolski is as good as Robin Van Persie. When I talk about world class, I mean real class. Players that can walk into just about every team on the planet. I mean players like Rooney, Aguero, Yaya Toure, Fabregas, David Silva, half the Barcelona squad... They're top class players and frankly Podolski/Sahin don't even compare. I've never really seen Cazorla, but at 28 and still at a mid-table Spanish side he can't be in the same class as Fabregas and RVP- I hope I'm proven wrong but I very much doubt it.

I find it quite funny how many gooners seem to underrate Nasri now. Don't forget that we were all banging on about how great he was two years ago. Clubs don't pay 20 odd million quid for a player in the last year of his contract, even if it is City. When he left, we lost class; there's no way to sugercoat that.

Our club is on the downhill slide irrespective of clubs 'cheating the system'. The silverware is just as shiny in City's trophy cabinet and the experience as their fans illustrated is still just as exhilarating. There's so many problems with how our club is run: in five years we have earned 30 million pound profit in the transfer market, buying/selling. We're the only club apart from the Toon to have sold more than we have spent and frankly it shows in our decline.

You can't win the league on bargain buys.

:lol: We got one good 4-5 month period out of Nasri, he was decidedly average for the rest of his time at the club. One good 6 month period in 3 seasons does not make you world class. Robin is not much different, with one good season out of 8, but at least the periods when he was on the pitch the rest of the time he showed he had the potential to be world class if he could stay fit.

And at least Robin, unlike Nasri, didn't go completely missing the 2nd half of the season.

You lot have changed your tone on RVP. What happened to best striker in the world?

Oh well I'm both so theres our difference :P


Just because something doesn't tell the full story doesn't mean its not a good indicator.


Definitely didn't say that.
What I might argue is that one "world class" player isn't as good as four that are up there.


He turned down Real Madrid a few years ago claiming that he was happy at Villarreal.

Cazorla: "There are many other things in football besides Real Madrid. It's clear that it is possible to say "no" to them, There is no doubt that they are a great team, but I also feel very satisfied and valued at my club. I hope I can continue growing at Villarreal because I am young and I’m only starting off with the national team."

Shows his character as well.


To add to what SydCro said, last year with City he had about 2 standout performances all year. The rest he was easily City's least impressive regular playing attacker.

I remember reading a stat that in 2010-11 (his "breakthrough" year) the games he started we had a lower average points per game than when he didn't start. Cesc on the other hand there was a colossal drop in points per game when he didn't start.



That's only really become true very recently (and hopefully will change). AFC has never been a big spending club but won the top flight 13 times. Even the Invincibles were mostly made up of bargain buys and we didn't even have a stadium debt to pay back.
I think about 80% of that starting side was either free or tops of 3ish mill.



If we don't sign Cazorla and/or a Sahin type quality midfielder I'll feel the same as you. I just find it over the top to still be complaining given that this could be our best transfer window in a very long time and easily our biggest gross spend ever.

Guys like RVP, Cesc and Nasri might be considered world class when they leave/left Arsenal, but they definitely weren't world class when they joined. I'm not sure that there is reason to be negative about our current transfer dealings...

I'm sure you would have been equally negative when wenger started...

"In Bergkamp's second season at Internazionale, the club changed managers again, appointing Ottavio Bianchi. Bergkamp endured a disappointing campaign, troubled with stress injuries and fatigue from the 1994 World Cup. He managed to score five goals in 26 appearances. Off the field, Bergkamp's relationship with the Italian press and fans became uncomfortable. His shy persona and his propensity to go home after matches was interpreted as apathy.[23] Because of his poor performance on the pitch, one Italian publication renamed their award given to the worst performance of the week, L'asino della settimana (Donkey of the Week) to Bergkamp della settimana.[16][24] Internazionale ended the league season in sixth position and failed to retain the UEFA Cup. The club was eliminated in the second round. In February 1995, the club was purchased by Italian businessman and fan Massimo Moratti, who promised to invest heavily in the squad.[25] Bergkamp's future in the first team was uncertain following the signing of Maurizio Ganz a month after the takeover.[26]"

"Henry left Monaco in January 1999, one year before his friend and teammate David Trezeguet, and moved to Italian Serie A club Juventus for £10.5 million.[1] He played on the wing,[8] but he was ineffective against the Serie A defensive discipline in a position uncharacteristic for him, and scored just three goals in 16 appearances.[9]"

Wenger has a knack in signing no name players and making them names. How he took viera ,henry ,toure,pires and turned them into class players is astounding . Hell kos looked like a fuck up but hasn't he turned around

He was one of the best strikers in the world last season, and when he can stay fit there is no doubt he is one of the best strikers in the world. I don't see anyone denying that. It's just unfortunate that we got 1 full season out of 8.

Fascinating how awful Nasri is now... I don't mean to sound horrible, but it really is a case of gooners turning a blind eye to a hard truth lately. Look at all the responses, I've really struck a nerve here. Sleel is right, look how quick you've all changed your view on RVP!

Name me a single player who is better then him in our squad, excluding RVP? In three months time it will be 'Walcott, world class' and in 12 it will be 'good for one season, Chamakh is better'...

No, you can't win the league on bargain buys. The spending on players has gone up over time, but I can assure you that 11 million in 1999 for Thierry Henry was actually quite a big amount for a footballer back then. Dennis Bergkamp broke our transfer record; he was, and is still imo, Arsenal's biggest signing ever. It was really big news and the English press treated it as such. He was signed by a caretaker manager before Arsene Wenger.

Our response to 'spend some fucking money' only a season ago was that Wenger is "prepared to spend when he has the money", as proved by his early years. I submit to this view. But we cannot possibly say that one day and "we never spent big" the next.

Our 'sustainable' financial system doesn't work! All it appears to do is sustain our downhill cycle into mid-table and raise ticket prices (which are going up again!) for supporters. Why don't we just go the whole way and call it 'fan and player financed' financial system.

We've become a feeder club.

You're so negative it's almost funny, Ken :lol:

Tbf most fans were criticising Nasri and his performances in the 2nd half of last season. He was incredible in the first half of the season, and went missing completely in the 2nd half. Like I said before, one great half a season does not suddenly make you a world class player. At least with RvP we saw when he was fit that is a world class player, it's just unfortunate that, up until last season, those moments have been to few and far between.I mean you can't say Nasri at any point last season at City got even close to his form in the first half of the 2010/11 season with us.

My view on RvP has not changed one bit. He's a world class player, one of the best strikers in the world, but is incredibly injury prone. 1 injury free season in 8 isn't the best record. No one has ever doubted his talent, that is without question, though there will always be doubts and questions about how long he can stay fit for. We should just count ourselves lucky the club stood by him for years and we got at least 1 incredible season out of him.

Edited by sydneycroatia58: 31/7/2012 10:37:55 PM

Now that's harsh, he did well at Manchester City in a team of very good players. He often started, had nine assists and scored five goals. That's not bad considering all the talent around him.

The fact is, and I don't want to sound like a twat, but you didn't answer my question: Who in the Arsenal squad is better than Samir Nasri, excluding RVP?

Well it's an impossible question to answer because you can only compare him with the players we have who play out wide. Of which none have played like he did for that half a season. You can't for example compare him to Jack or Arteta. It'd be like comparing Robin and Koscielny or Vermaelen, all 3 are some of the best players at the club, but you can't say which one is better.

In the end, out of all the big name players we have lost in the last few years, Nasri was probably the easiest to replace. I think whatever impact his loss had on the actual team was way overplayed last season.

Edited by sydneycroatia58: 1/8/2012 12:10:59 PM

Obviously the supporters of a club are going to be a little bias. But let's not get sidetracked.
I think even most City supporters who know their stuff would admit Cazorla is better than Nasri.

Having said that, Nasri has a fuck tone of potential. Won't be surprised if in the next few years he goes on to earn that "World Class" tag.


I'd confidently say Mikel Arteta is currently better than Nasri (if you go on actual performances rather than hype). If we're allowed to say players in vastly different positions (relative to their position) then Sagna definitely takes it.
There could be arguments for others but let's not go there

Speaking of Sagna he must surely be considered a "World Class" rightback? You don't make it into the team of the year in the best league in the world every second season if your not world class.
Fullbacks just get no love.


Saying we're in a downhill cycle to mid table is a big exaggeration. We went up a spot last season. What it's sustaining is our champions league spot and giving the appearance that we have a real chance at the title for periods most seasons.
Agree that it's not Ideal, but I think you've gone a little overboard.
I'm optimistic that with the new financial rules and our stadium debt being paid off we will start to challenge seriously again soon.





In other news.. it's been 48 hours, it's next month and we still havn't heard a peep about Cazorla signing. My confidence in this happening just halved.

This is especially highlighted by the fact that when Nasri played we averaged less points per game (in his best ever season).
Would be interesting to see if that stat was true last season for City too. I wouldn't be surprised.

can people answer me this , do you prefer our old number 8 or our new one? loved nasri but like sc stated he was meh for 3 years

Cazorla deal may actually happen, and for a record fee.
A few journalists that are close to Malaga claiming it's as good as done. Sid Lowe the Spain based Brit from ESPN Presspass also pretty convinced.
One of the Malaga journalists and Lowe both have wikipedia pages so...... obviously that makes anything they say unquestionable.




New one.
When Mikel is out we're atrocious, we won 1 game without him all season?. When Nasri was out we were marginally better off.
Can't argue with numbers.

Sky Sports reporting that Cazorla is due to fly in for a medical and to complete a deal in the next few days

Edited by sydneycroatia58: 1/8/2012 09:39:55 PM

http://northlondonisred.co.uk/arsenals-defence-and-defending-arsenal/#more-996