FFA National Curriculum for u10/11


FFA National Curriculum for u10/11

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dirk vanadidas
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Does anyone want to share their experience/observations of these age groups.
The most popular formation is 332 and even 422 not many play 323, but then again do clubs inform coaches ?

Europe is funding the war not Chelsea football club

krones3
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dirkvanadidas wrote:
Does anyone want to share their experience/observations of these age groups.
The most popular formation is 332 and even 422 not many play 323, but then again do clubs inform coaches ?


I play
4121 with wing backs

---------------KEEPER
--------R DEF----------L DEF
R WING-----------------------L WING

-------------HOLDING MID

---------AT MID---------AT MID

------------------9


My wingbacks push high up the park.
Possession is the key to the game and quick recovery up front.
It is an extremely pressing attacking set up which results in a very high goal score.


I push the kids to win the ball at every kick off and every other restart. Ie goal kicks
Long kicks are not allowed neither are balls in the air




Edited by krones3: 30/5/2011 06:50:14 AM

Edited by krones3: 30/5/2011 06:52:45 AM

Edited by krones3: 30/5/2011 06:55:49 AM
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dirkvanadidas wrote:
but then again do clubs inform coaches ?


Do the vast majority of coaches genuinely care or have the knowledge to implement supposed leading edge tactical formations from a text book?

At this age group I loosely prefered 352 - player roles a significantly more higher priority than a zone on the park.

Little value in belting individual player expression out of the poor buggers in the pursuit of following the dutch bible.


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Judy Free wrote:
dirkvanadidas wrote:
but then again do clubs inform coaches ?


Do the vast majority of coaches genuinely care or have the knowledge to implement supposed leading edge tactical formations from a text book?

At this age group I loosely prefered 352 - player roles a significantly more higher priority than a zone on the park.

Little value in belting individual player expression out of the poor buggers in the pursuit of following the dutch bible.



I don't usually read any posts of yours anymore, but this one is amazing. Are you winding us up?

Krones and Dirk were talking about 9 a side formations. You responded with an eleven a side formation. Then you suggest a very abstract formation, 3-5-2, for an eleven a side.

How do you impart this on the training track?

What sequential stages do you use for the 3-5-2 for 10 year olds?

What shape midfield do you use in your 3-5-2?

This demonstrates no understanding of the age group's cognitive learning capabilities, whatsoever.

Thankfully you've retired from junior/youth coaching. You desperately need to do some updated FFA, or KNVB courses in Holland, to learn about young footballers' cognitive development. Yet you pontificate on others' programmes, rarely proffering any football programmes yourself.

Thankfully guys like Arthur, Krones, Dirk, Aussiesrus, Andy et al, are using some decent stuff to coach juniors/youth.

Go and show Han Berger, or our state FFA TD, what you would do with 10 year olds!!!!

Years ago when you were extolling the virtues of Frank Arok as a tactical coach, Bob Rizzi, who had played under Arok, said you really demonstrated lack of knowledge about football. With these 3-5-2 suggestions for ten year olds, it is hard to disagree.



Edited by Decentric: 30/5/2011 09:35:33 PM
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dirkvanadidas wrote:
Does anyone want to share their experience/observations of these age groups.
The most popular formation is 332 and even 422 not many play 323, but then again do clubs inform coaches ?



I only used it once, as I've only played 9v9 once. I thought the FFA edict was 3-3-2. I did that then found it was 3-2-3.

I had two triangles with two strikers in a flat front two.


It is easier to set up 3-2-3 in three flat lines. Triangles are easily created when the team has possession of the ball.
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Decentric wrote:
Years ago when you were extolling the virtues of Frank Arok as a tactical coach, Bob Rizzi, who had played under Arok, said you really demonstrated lack of knowledge about football. With these suggestions, he has proved to be correct.


Bob who?

FFS, decentric. :lol:

And you scratch your head often wondering why you get treated like a total doofus at every turn.



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Decentric wrote:
This demonstrates no understanding of the age group's cognitive learning capabilities whatsoever.


Seriously, WTF are you rabbiting on about. :lol:

I'd say this merely demonstrates the massive differences in player quality (and probably intellectual) between Sydney and Tasmania.
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Judy Free wrote:
Decentric wrote:
This demonstrates no understanding of the age group's cognitive learning capabilities whatsoever.


Seriously, WTF are you rabbiting on about. :lol:

I'd say this merely demonstrates the massive differences in player quality (and probably intellectual) between Sydney and Tasmania.



This is European teaching and learning practice.

Senior Aussie national coaches have been frustrated at a lack of A League players' understanding of different formations. Here you are trying to impart to 10 year olds what senior domestic professional players struggle to do with national coaches!!!!!

This is why Arnold and Verbeek preferred our European-based players.

Arnold and Postecoglou are value adding more sophisticated tactical practice to senior A League players.

Muscat, Corica, Veart, Tobin, Vidmar, Durakovic, all had KNVB training to bring Australia's A League youth teams into 21st century European practice.

I simply cannot believe that you think young Sydney players, even if elite, have this level of tactical understanding. If they did/do, why isn't it inculcated and assimilated as they progress to senior level?

You also have no idea of children's capabilities and learning development theory. I'm gobsmacked!!!

Edited by Decentric: 30/5/2011 03:10:22 PM
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Decentric wrote:
Senior Aussie national coaches have been frustrated at a lack of A League players' understanding of different formations. Here you are trying to impart to 10 year olds what senior domestic professional players struggle to do with national coaches!!!!!


Right up there with your best work. :lol:

Decentric wrote:
Muscat, Ciorica, Veart, Tobin, Vidmar, Durakovic all had KNVB training to bring Australia's A League youth teams into 21st century European practice.


Good grief, decentric.

Have you ever watched any of these blokes coach?

Tobin and Corica couldn't coach a choko vine to climb a tin carport. :lol:

Decentric wrote:
You also have no idea of children's capabilities and learning development theory.


Clearly your entire existance is based on theory.

I bet you keep a copy of the kama sutra on your bedside table.

Decentric wrote:
I'm gobsmacked!!!


I wouldn't doubt that for a picosecond.
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Judy Free wrote:


At this age group I loosely prefered 352 - player roles a significantly more higher priority than a zone on the park.





This 3-5-2 was discussed in depth after I posed the 3-5-2 as a suitable formation for youth at the KNVB course.

KNVB coaches Derkson and Schans considered it totally inappropriate for any level of football, except for professional football teams. Rob Baan concurred. Kelly Cross was in the room and said nothing.

They argued that with the extraordinary amount of running required by the wide wing backs in the 3-5-2 shape, no team other than a professional team could be fit enough to cover the amount of ground necessary to keep the shape compact at all times. Even if it were plausible you have provided no sequential and incremental plan for players to learn it on the training track.

Yet here we have you extolling its merits as a useful formation on a national football forum. It is beyond the physical capabilities, and the conceptual abilities, of 10 year olds to play this formation properly.

I will give you Schans' email address, Rob Baan's email address and KNVB head office contact details to describe the 3-5-2 benefits to 10 year olds. You can also write to Han Berger telling him the salient advantages of playing 3-5-2 with 10 year olds.

They will all suggest you urgently need to acquire some developmental football theory to learn TIC, and apply it appropriately to all ages in an approved FFA course, or a KNVB course in the Netherlands.

My two co-coaches at FFE both previously used 3-5-2 as youth/junior formations. Sagely, they had the football intelligence to see the flaws in practice after I pointed out, via pre-eminent KNVB coaches, its failings for juniors/youth.
One of these guys has 35 years coaching experience. The other is a FFA C Licence holder and has played for Egypt and AEK Athens.

If these guys are intelligent enough to immediately see their flawed practices, why aren't you?

It really annoys me

Edit:No personal attacks on fellow forum users. Criticise the idea, not the person.

I suppose you have at least put up some football content in this post.](*,)






Edited by Joffa: 30/5/2011 05:52:40 PM

Edited by Decentric: 30/5/2011 09:38:22 PM
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Decentric wrote:
Edit:No personal attacks on fellow forum users. Criticise the idea, not the person.
.



Quite amusing reading your drivel here how it is apparently much much better to teach 8 out field players a system than 10 out field players. That's only two players diff, you demented old theorising numpty. :lol:

Sheesh.

Oh and FWIW any theoretical system you put on paper, or mark out with cones in the sheds and subsequently trot out onto the park can be torn into teeny weeny bits and pieces any time the oppo players or coach wish to take advantage of your teams individual weaknesses. But you knew that, didn't you?


Edited by judy free: 30/5/2011 04:09:51 PM

Edited by Joffa: 30/5/2011 05:53:27 PM
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Judy Free wrote:

Oh and FWIW any theoretical system you put on paper, or mark out with cones in the sheds and subsequently trot out onto the park can be torn into teeny weeny bits and pieces any time the oppo players or coach wish to take advantage of your teams individual weaknesses. But you knew that, didn't you?


Edited by judy free: 30/5/2011 04:09:51 PM


Great question chips
Should an U10’s coach go out to pick an opposition team to pieces or play a winning style of football that develops his own players?


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krones3 wrote:


Great question chips
Should an U10’s coach go out to pick an opposition team to pieces or play a winning style of football that develops his own players?



An alternative, KNVB method, but you need to make your own decisions Krones, is this. Mark out the playing formation with the same coloured cones in an area 2m x 3m.

Mark out your formation exemplified in a 3-2-3 for 9 a side, or 4-3-3 or a with a one screener midfield triangle for 11v11.

Then make your players step on each cone. So that the whole team is in this small area. It is tactile or kinaesthetic. It helps most kids to understand the desired formation better. Using a board/clipboard can be too abstract.
At half time you can also demonstrate the opposite team's formation with different coloured cones. I've seen Ricky Herbert adopt this KNVB technique with Phoenix.

This can be done only a few metres away from the sideline.

What a coach should have been doing is using the match formation on the training ground.

Good luck.

Edited by Decentric: 30/5/2011 06:01:29 PM
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krones3 wrote:


Should an U10’s coach go out to pick an opposition team to pieces or play a winning style of football that develops his own players?



Using appropriate KNVB, or FFA, TIC methodology, simplify the game by making it more of a question of skill. The result is unimportant. The way they play is important and whether they enjoy the game or not. Development of players takes precedence over results.

Too many complex tactics on the training ground turns kids off.

Don't worry too much about opposition coaches' formations at under 10 level.
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I never concern myself with the tactics or individual skills of my opponent’s players.
I never ever change my style of play for my opponent.
I play attacking, flowing, possession, play on the ground defending from the front, playing out from the back , using the width of the park, my keeper is only allowed to throw the ball and is a different kid each week.
I observe my opponent playing weeks before I come up against them so I can set my players in the best position to win and develop. I try to insure I never win by more than 5 goals so as not to dishearten the opposition kids.

What I do do is to watch what my players do in the game at try to correct that on training nights.
Ie last game I saw a player (C back) unable to cut and turning the ball inside so as to get on his good foot.
This training session I will cover step over’s, dribbling, some players will work on lofted passes (they faired poorly in the skills test) and some will work on cuts to the outside of the field and using both feet all will finish with a small sided game.

Forgive me if I sound arrogant but the style of football I wish to play is clear in my mind and it will look as close to the style barca play as I can make it. Those who say it is not possible to play like barca forget we are not playing against man u. I have spent three years getting these kids to play this way and encouraging them to always use their skills on the field and at futsal I expect HOPE to loose most of them to academies of football in 2 years time.
If I loose over half my team to academies in 2013 I will consider it a success.

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Decentric wrote:
krones3 wrote:


Should an U10’s coach go out to pick an opposition team to pieces or play a winning style of football that develops his own players?



Using appropriate KNVB, or FFA, TIC methodology, simplify the game by making it more of a question of skill. The result is unimportant. The way they play is important and whether they enjoy the game or not. Development of players takes precedence over results.

Too many complex tactics on the training ground turns kids off.

Don't worry too much about opposition coaches' formations at under 10 level.


Parents of skillful kids expect some reasonable results on the field. The secret is balance between development and winning.
.

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krones3 wrote:

I observe my opponent playing weeks before I come up against them so I can set my players in the best position to win and develop. I try to insure I never win by more than 5 goals so as not to dishearten the opposition kids.



How do you do this?

I ask because this was a problem for me when I've coached, not at rep level, but with women and junior suburban association games.

I've tried to organise it two ways after advice from old hands. The kids hated me doing it one way, but parents were happy.

If someone has a better way of producing more even games, I'm all ears.
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Judy Free wrote:
dirkvanadidas wrote:
but then again do clubs inform coaches ?


Little value in belting individual player expression out of the poor buggers in the pursuit of following the dutch bible.



cos i suppose they all play unstructured street football or equivalent round your way ?

Europe is funding the war not Chelsea football club

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Judy Free wrote:
dirkvanadidas wrote:
but then again do clubs inform coaches ?


Do the vast majority of coaches genuinely care or have the knowledge to implement supposed leading edge tactical formations from a text book?





you raise a good point , but round here the age groups have 3 ability bandings so you should expect some sort of coach knowledge for the upper bandings, so how would deal with it ?



Europe is funding the war not Chelsea football club

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Decentric wrote:
krones3 wrote:

I observe my opponent playing weeks before I come up against them so I can set my players in the best position to win and develop. I try to insure I never win by more than 5 goals so as not to dishearten the opposition kids.



How do you do this?

I ask because this was a problem for me when I've coached, not at rep level, but with women and junior suburban association games.

I've tried to organise it two ways after advice from old hands. The kids hated me doing it one way, but parents were happy.

If someone has a better way of producing more even games, I'm all ears.

All our games are played at the same centre so watching other teams is not hard.
I move players out of position and use substitutes to slow he score line.
It is hard however mainly due to the fact that the opposition lower their heads.



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krones3 wrote:
I never concern myself with the tactics or individual skills of my opponent’s players.
I never ever change my style of play for my opponent.


krones3I wrote:
I observe my opponent playing weeks before I come up against them so I can set my players in the best position to win and develop.


Eh?

Youv'e lost me.
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krones3 wrote:
I play attacking, flowing, possession, play on the ground defending from the front, playing out from the back , using the width of the park


I've never met a coach who has set out to do otherwise. :lol:

Edited by judy free: 30/5/2011 10:15:39 PM
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Judy Free wrote:
krones3 wrote:
I never concern myself with the tactics or individual skills of my opponent’s players.
I never ever change my style of play for my opponent.


krones3I wrote:
I observe my opponent playing weeks before I come up against them so I can set my players in the best position to win and develop.


Eh?

Youv'e lost me.

Set my players in positions to win but not by too much and to develop areas of their game that need developing.
I look at the level of the oppersition not tactics or inderviduals.I would never say to a 10yr old that his opposite number is doing this or that. I expect or demand he work it out for himself.


But my style of play stays the same always.



Edited by krones3: 30/5/2011 09:21:09 PM
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Judy Free wrote:
krones3 wrote:
I play attacking, flowing, possession, play on the ground defending from the front, playing out from the back , using the width of the park


I've never met a coach who has claimed to do otherwise. :lol:


In my case you know I will accept nothing else. I would and have rather lose than change it.


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krones3 wrote:
Decentric wrote:
krones3 wrote:

I observe my opponent playing weeks before I come up against them so I can set my players in the best position to win and develop. I try to insure I never win by more than 5 goals so as not to dishearten the opposition kids.



How do you do this?

I ask because this was a problem for me when I've coached, not at rep level, but with women and junior suburban association games.

I've tried to organise it two ways after advice from old hands. The kids hated me doing it one way, but parents were happy.

If someone has a better way of producing more even games, I'm all ears.

All our games are played at the same centre so watching other teams is not hard.
I move players out of position and use substitutes to slow he score line.
It is hard however mainly due to the fact that the opposition lower their heads.




LIke many coaches, I've also put good players in defence and stopped them from advancing beyond the half way line.

I've also put them on the bench for lengthy periods. I've also played the weakest players in striking positions.

Another strategy I learnt from an junior association president is one I like, but the kids hate.

If they go 3-0 up, I ask for three passes before they shoot. Every time they score another goal, I lift the pass count by another one. I've even disallowed goals from my team - probably completely against the association rules, if they haven't accrued enough passes. This has sometimes galvanised the other team rather than dropping their heads.

If I've refereed, it is easier to control it. Kids I've coached have been really annoyed with me, but I've had good parents who have been very supportive. It has also fostered good relationships with other coaches.

The worst thing is when you are refereeing and see the despondent faces of the kids who've been on the end of some terrible hidings.
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Decentric wrote:
I've even disallowed goals from my team - probably completely against the association rules, if they haven't accrued enough passes.


And your association referees allow you to do this?
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dirkvanadidas wrote:
Judy Free wrote:
dirkvanadidas wrote:
but then again do clubs inform coaches ?


Little value in belting individual player expression out of the poor buggers in the pursuit of following the dutch bible.



cos i suppose they all play unstructured street football or equivalent round your way ?


Where did I say that?
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Decentric wrote:
krones3 wrote:
Decentric wrote:
krones3 wrote:

I observe my opponent playing weeks before I come up against them so I can set my players in the best position to win and develop. I try to insure I never win by more than 5 goals so as not to dishearten the opposition kids.



How do you do this?

I ask because this was a problem for me when I've coached, not at rep level, but with women and junior suburban association games.

I've tried to organise it two ways after advice from old hands. The kids hated me doing it one way, but parents were happy.

If someone has a better way of producing more even games, I'm all ears.

All our games are played at the same centre so watching other teams is not hard.
I move players out of position and use substitutes to slow he score line.
It is hard however mainly due to the fact that the opposition lower their heads.




LIke many coaches, I've also put good players in defence and stopped them from advancing beyond the half way line.

I've also put them on the bench for lengthy periods. I've also played the weakest players in striking positions.

Another strategy I learnt from an junior association president is one I like, but the kids hate.

If they go 3-0 up, I ask for three passes before they shoot. Every time they score another goal, I lift the pass count by another one. I've even disallowed goals from my team - probably completely against the association rules, if they haven't accrued enough passes. This has sometimes galvanised the other team rather than dropping their heads.

If I've refereed, it is easier to control it. Kids I've coached have been really annoyed with me, but I've had good parents who have been very supportive. It has also fostered good relationships with other coaches.

The worst thing is when you are refereeing and see the despondent faces of the kids who've been on the end of some terrible hidings.


Would be good if you could allow the other team more players on the park.
Less space and more pressure for your team.



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Judy Free wrote:
Decentric wrote:
I've even disallowed goals from my team - probably completely against the association rules, if they haven't accrued enough passes.


And your association referees allow you to do this?


I have been the referee, usually in the second half if we played weak teams.

The other team fielded the ref in the first half.


The only stakeholders who would have wanted to lodge a complaint would've been the kids from my team.

They wouldn't have known how to lodge a complaint either!!!
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krones3 wrote:
Decentric wrote:
krones3 wrote:
Decentric wrote:
krones3 wrote:

I observe my opponent playing weeks before I come up against them so I can set my players in the best position to win and develop. I try to insure I never win by more than 5 goals so as not to dishearten the opposition kids.



How do you do this?

I ask because this was a problem for me when I've coached, not at rep level, but with women and junior suburban association games.

I've tried to organise it two ways after advice from old hands. The kids hated me doing it one way, but parents were happy.

If someone has a better way of producing more even games, I'm all ears.

All our games are played at the same centre so watching other teams is not hard.
I move players out of position and use substitutes to slow he score line.
It is hard however mainly due to the fact that the opposition lower their heads.




LIke many coaches, I've also put good players in defence and stopped them from advancing beyond the half way line.

I've also put them on the bench for lengthy periods. I've also played the weakest players in striking positions.

Another strategy I learnt from an junior association president is one I like, but the kids hate.

If they go 3-0 up, I ask for three passes before they shoot. Every time they score another goal, I lift the pass count by another one. I've even disallowed goals from my team - probably completely against the association rules, if they haven't accrued enough passes. This has sometimes galvanised the other team rather than dropping their heads.

If I've refereed, it is easier to control it. Kids I've coached have been really annoyed with me, but I've had good parents who have been very supportive. It has also fostered good relationships with other coaches.

The worst thing is when you are refereeing and see the despondent faces of the kids who've been on the end of some terrible hidings.


Would be good if you could allow the other team more players on the park.
Less space and more pressure for your team.




I'm not suere even the most supportive of parents would be happy with that, particularly with about 6 subs.

Oh I see what you mean. Let the opposition play all their players, like 4 extra.

Good idea, but the pitch becomes more crowded.

Edited by Decentric: 30/5/2011 11:27:23 PM
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Decentric wrote:
Judy Free wrote:
Decentric wrote:
I've even disallowed goals from my team - probably completely against the association rules, if they haven't accrued enough passes.


And your association referees allow you to do this?


I have been the referee, usually in the second half if we played weak teams.

The other team fielded the ref in the first half.


OK, I assume then you re not talking about competitive games where league tables are kept.
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krones3 wrote:
I would never say to a 10yr old that his opposite number is doing this or that. I expect or demand he work it out for himself.


Ten year old's require guidance, especially when an individual is getting hammered/skinned/outplayed by an opposing player.


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Judy Free wrote:
krones3 wrote:
I would never say to a 10yr old that his opposite number is doing this or that. I expect or demand he work it out for himself.


Ten year old's require guidance, especially when an individual is getting hammered/skinned/outplayed by an opposing player.



A coach can shuffle personnel.

One can also change a formation. Again it is important not to make things to complex for 10 year olds, if one follows KNVB TIC or contemporary FFA TIC.

I was forced to complicate things in an under 12 rep team. Half the team was underage.

State Championships for under 12s were 11 v 11.

10 year olds played 9 v9, which was more comfortable and age appropriate.

I have been criticised publicly, using my real name, by the coach the following year for my under 11 and under 12 players not understanding why they played 4-3-3.

One always learns from constructive criticism. I would have preferred them to play 9 v9, but that was taken out of my hands.

The tactical work we did on the training track, with the limited opportunities when the whole team trained together, was decisive in performance.
The kids probably didn't enjoy trying to learn midfield triangles and the nuances of 4-3-3 at 10 years of age either. It was very challenging. They did enjoy success in competition though, winning the ultimate prize.

Fun and games where skill is paramount are important ingredients for 10 year olds.

I like the way Krones always tries to play attacking football. His players will enjoy it. I would like to emulate him, but in bigger competitions, results can take precedence. Unfortunately, it is how coaches and players are appraised by too many in the football milieu.

Yet junior football should always be about development. I'm guilty of playing a defensive combination in the latter parts of a match to win a state competition. If we had pursued all out attack all the time, other teams had better players and we wouldn't have won any games at all.
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Judy Free wrote:
krones3 wrote:
I would never say to a 10yr old that his opposite number is doing this or that. I expect or demand he work it out for himself.


Ten year old's require guidance, especially when an individual is getting hammered/skinned/outplayed by an opposing player.



Had this argument with a P22 coach just before pulling my son out. His last game down in Sydney he was playing in a mix matched side up an age group and was getting absolutely skinned playing left back. He was 8 years old and lets just say game sense wasn't his strong suit back then. In a situation like that some coaching input from the sideline would have been very beneficial for him at that stage of his development. Most adults still need a reminder from time to time so I'm not sure why they strictly forbid it at P22. In saying that I like the idea of a coach having a reduced role and parents no role at all on game day.
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neverwozza wrote:
Judy Free wrote:
krones3 wrote:
I would never say to a 10yr old that his opposite number is doing this or that. I expect or demand he work it out for himself.


Ten year old's require guidance, especially when an individual is getting hammered/skinned/outplayed by an opposing player.



Had this argument with a P22 coach just before pulling my son out. His last game down in Sydney he was playing in a mix matched side up an age group and was getting absolutely skinned playing left back. He was 8 years old and lets just say game sense wasn't his strong suit back then. In a situation like that some coaching input from the sideline would have been very beneficial for him at that stage of his development.


Absolutely.

neverwozza wrote:
Most adults still need a reminder from time to time so I'm not sure why they strictly forbid it at P22.


Probably due to the ineptitude of the coaches atb at P22 - easier for them to say or do nothing.

neverwozza wrote:
In saying that I like the idea of a coach having a reduced role and parents no role at all on game day.


It's really not overly difficult to communicate with your players during the course of a match without looking like an armwaving sideline lunatic. If the kids respect the coach (and respects needs to be earnt, even from juniors) they will fully understand and appreciate the sideline guidance.

As for the role of parents? They are no more than taxi drivers for your players. They should not be engaged in convo at any level (I'm taking elite level football here).
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Judy Free wrote:
dirkvanadidas wrote:
but then again do clubs inform coaches ?


Do the vast majority of coaches genuinely care or have the knowledge to implement supposed leading edge tactical formations from a text book?

At this age group I loosely prefered 352 - player roles a significantly more higher priority than a zone on the park.

Little value in belting individual player expression out of the poor buggers in the pursuit of following the dutch bible.



Judy Free (whose comments I read and I like immensely) is now called the Playing Standards Bitter :)
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To be fair Judy the P22 coaches at the Central Coast are brilliant. It is run out of the mariners academy and there is a lot of personal development being taught as well. I used to have a laugh at my sons old coach because he wasn't allowed to give instruction but most of the time his body language would get the message across to the boys anyway.
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Decentric wrote:
krones3 wrote:

I observe my opponent playing weeks before I come up against them so I can set my players in the best position to win and develop. I try to insure I never win by more than 5 goals so as not to dishearten the opposition kids.



How do you do this?

I ask because this was a problem for me when I've coached, not at rep level, but with women and junior suburban association games.

I've tried to organise it two ways after advice from old hands. The kids hated me doing it one way, but parents were happy.

If someone has a better way of producing more even games, I'm all ears.


Hi Decentric,

If you playing 9-A-Side introduce 6 consecutive passes before the goal can be scored...ensure that 1 each of the passes comes out of your formation..assuming you are playing 3-2-3 IE: one pass from the back three, one from the middle & one from the front.
Or take the gloves & GK strip off your GK and play the GK in the box with feet only...sure the opponenet will go over the top and may be able to score a hand full of goals during the game but best to conceed a few goals if you are scoring many.
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MEDUSA wrote:
Decentric wrote:
krones3 wrote:

I observe my opponent playing weeks before I come up against them so I can set my players in the best position to win and develop. I try to insure I never win by more than 5 goals so as not to dishearten the opposition kids.



How do you do this?

I ask because this was a problem for me when I've coached, not at rep level, but with women and junior suburban association games.

I've tried to organise it two ways after advice from old hands. The kids hated me doing it one way, but parents were happy.

If someone has a better way of producing more even games, I'm all ears.


Hi Decentric,

If you playing 9-A-Side introduce 6 consecutive passes before the goal can be scored...ensure that 1 each of the passes comes out of your formation..assuming you are playing 3-2-3 IE: one pass from the back three, one from the middle & one from the front.
Or take the gloves & GK strip off your GK and play the GK in the box with feet only...sure the opponenet will go over the top and may be able to score a hand full of goals during the game but best to conceed a few goals if you are scoring many.


Good day.

Have we met before on the Science of Football?

The 6 pass sequence with each line counting sounds complex.

Nevertheless, the keeper with no gloves and just feet is an excellent idea and easy to do. Why didn't I think of it?
#-o
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I would much rather give the opponent more players.
1 it allows me to, maintain the integrity of my style of play
2 it allows me to hone the skills of my players
3 it places my players under major pressure in less space.

All of this I do on the training field when I wish to expose my player’s weaker points.
Increase pressure and reduce space.


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Judy Free wrote:
krones3 wrote:
I would never say to a 10yr old that his opposite number is doing this or that. I expect or demand he work it out for himself.


Ten year old's require guidance, especially when an individual is getting hammered/skinned/outplayed by an opposing player.



Guidance comes on the training pitch i would not let a kid get skinned but i would never rob him of his right to learn for himself or the opportunity to strive for better from himself.


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krones3 wrote:
Judy Free wrote:
krones3 wrote:
I would never say to a 10yr old that his opposite number is doing this or that. I expect or demand he work it out for himself.


Ten year old's require guidance, especially when an individual is getting hammered/skinned/outplayed by an opposing player.



Guidance comes on the training pitch i would not let a kid get skinned but i would never rob him of his right to learn for himself or the opportunity to strive for better from himself.



The teaching and learning process does not stop when the ref blows his whistle at match kickoff. Match day guidance not only reinforces good habbits but accelerates the learning process. You don't want to give up this opportunity, krones.

I think the prob with 99% of junior coaches (even some knowledgeable ones) at Sat morning kickoff, their blood pressure rises, they ball watch, and become completely incapable of imparting anything of genuine assistance to the kids.
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Judy Free wrote:
Decentric wrote:
Judy Free wrote:
Decentric wrote:
I've even disallowed goals from my team - probably completely against the association rules, if they haven't accrued enough passes.


And your association referees allow you to do this?


I have been the referee, usually in the second half if we played weak teams.

The other team fielded the ref in the first half.


OK, I assume then you re not talking about competitive games where league tables are kept.



League tables are totally unnecessary for juniors.

At rep level for state championships, they are needed, but that is all.
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3-2-3 is by far the best

Roles change when you have the ball compared to when you don't have the ball.

Gk - 1/3/4

back 3 = 5/4 - 3/4 - 3/2

Mid 2 = 6 - 8

Front 3 = 7- 9/10 - 11

Thats how I describe the roles.

GK becomes a CB once he makes the first pass from a GK.
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[quote=FMVS]3-2-3 is by far the best

quote]
LOL :oops: :oops: :oops:
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FMVS wrote:
3-2-3 is by far the best

Roles change when you have the ball compared to when you don't have the ball.

Gk - 1/3/4

back 3 = 5/4 - 3/4 - 3/2

Mid 2 = 6 - 8

Front 3 = 7- 9/10 - 11

Thats how I describe the roles.

GK becomes a CB once he makes the first pass from a GK.


the 2 midfielders would become attacking in a 433 so i would go to a point backwards midfield , the centre back in the 3 can become dm or cb at 11 aside, the rest is self explanotory.

Europe is funding the war not Chelsea football club

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I've posted this on another thread but I'll copy it here as the original poster has asked for coaches experiences at this level and it seems this may be the appropriate thread.

I coach under 8's and 10's and have found the 10's a lot of fun now that they are playing "positions" and "strategy" albeit on a small scale.

I tend to set my under 10's up (only 9 on the field) as a 1-3-3-2 against opposition that are equal to us (or our skill level) and 1-1-3-2-1 against some of the better teams. The one at the back being a sweeper and not marking which means they play a lone striker. I've only adopted this formation twice this season after copping a 9-nil shellacking off one of the better sides in Brisbane. I've told my boys I don't mind them losing as long as we're competitive. That game wasn't competitive.

The week after we adopted the sweeper formation and only went down 2-nil to another good side. The advantage I've found with playing the 2 formations is that if you want to revert to only 3 at the back with no sweeper you simply move the "spine" forward one position. So your central midfielder goes forward to make up 2 at the front and your sweeper moves into centre defence. Alternatively you can just throw your sweeper up front and it reverts to 1-3-3-2 because, lets face it, every 9 year old wants to score goals and thinks they're Lionel Messi.

I may or may not be on the right track but I tell my lads to compress (move up the park) when they have the ball to give them less space and to spread out when we've got it for the converse reasons. (This is simplified of course but remember they are only 9 years old.)

Edited by munrubenmuz: 27/6/2011 02:19:54 PM


Member since 2008.


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Judy Free wrote:
krones3 wrote:
I never concern myself with the tactics or individual skills of my opponent’s players.
I never ever change my style of play for my opponent.


krones3I wrote:
I observe my opponent playing weeks before I come up against them so I can set my players in the best position to win and develop.


Eh?

Youv'e lost me.


I'm new to this section of the forum and I'm enjoying it immensely except for the mindless trolling that seems to be occurring between 2 or 3 posters against 1 particular bloke over a number of threads. As a rule of thumb if your post doesn't add any value to the thread how about you keep it to yourself?

Disagreements about certain points, outright rebuttals, drawn out analysis all good but simply saying "that's shit" or "you're dreaming" or "what would you know" adds nothing to the conversation.

The above quoted post is a perfect example but I could've easily selected dozens more.

I've read about 200 of you comments Judy Free and out of those you could count on 1 hand the number of times you've contributed positively and imparted some knowledge to the topic at hand. It's obvious you have an axe to grind against some posters. Just start up a big fat website that says I don't like X, Y, Z and be done with it.

You're driving the rest of us nuts.

Say your piece, disagree with it all you like but at least explain why you are disagreeing so we can then make a judgement about which of you blokes are talking out of your arses and which of you are just shit-stirring wankers.

Flame away. (I've got big shoulders.)

Edited by munrubenmuz: 27/6/2011 02:43:58 PM


Member since 2008.


Judy Free
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Munrubenmuz wrote:
Flame away. (I've got big shoulders.)


New dawn.

You're hardly worth it.
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Judy Free wrote:
Munrubenmuz wrote:
Flame away. (I've got big shoulders.)


New dawn.

You're hardly worth it.


True to form. Added nothing of value.




Member since 2008.


Judy Free
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Munrubenmuz wrote:
Judy Free wrote:
Munrubenmuz wrote:
Flame away. (I've got big shoulders.)


New dawn.

You're hardly worth it.


True to form. Added nothing of value.



Catatonic yawn.

Get over yaself, mate.
Muz
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Judy Free wrote:
Munrubenmuz wrote:
Judy Free wrote:
Munrubenmuz wrote:
Flame away. (I've got big shoulders.)


New dawn.

You're hardly worth it.


True to form. Added nothing of value.



Catatonic yawn.

Get over yaself, mate.


True to form. Added nothing of value AGAIN.

Thought I was hardly worth it? Obviously 'worth it' enough to post more inane rambling nonsense.

Peanut!


Member since 2008.


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Isn't it ironic, dontcha think.

Derailed a half decent thread.

Three pips, tiger.


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Decentric wrote:
Judy Free wrote:
Decentric wrote:
Judy Free wrote:
Decentric wrote:
I've even disallowed goals from my team - probably completely against the association rules, if they haven't accrued enough passes.


And your association referees allow you to do this?


I have been the referee, usually in the second half if we played weak teams.

The other team fielded the ref in the first half.


OK, I assume then you re not talking about competitive games where league tables are kept.



League tables are totally unnecessary for juniors.

At rep level for state championships, they are needed, but that is all.



I'd disagree. All junior sports I ever played at a school or club level had league tables. It gives you a sense of competitiveness and allows you to measure against the opposition. Everyone likes a bit of friendly competition - it's the ugly kids, coaches, and parents that make it a liability.


Quote:
The teaching and learning process does not stop when the ref blows his whistle at match kickoff. Match day guidance not only reinforces good habbits but accelerates the learning process. You don't want to give up this opportunity, krones.

I think the prob with 99% of junior coaches (even some knowledgeable ones) at Sat morning kickoff, their blood pressure rises, they ball watch, and become completely incapable of imparting anything of genuine assistance to the kids.


This. I remember one of my high school coaches would give us a pep talk, some quick instructions before the match, then sit down and have a fag and open his thermos whilst we ran around like headless chooks.
dirk vanadidas
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[quote=
I'd disagree. All junior sports I ever played at a school or club level had league tables. It gives you a sense of competitiveness and allows you to measure against the opposition. Everyone likes a bit of friendly competition - it's the ugly kids, coaches, and parents that make it a liability.


[quote]

nothing like adding the fear factor for 3 points at u7 to stifle creatvity. England only just got rid of leagues for u7/8 thanks to the effort of one coach in cirencester.

In the lineker post mortum of the 2010 world cup he interviewed the special one
In England, you teach your kids how to win. In Portugal and Spain they teach their kids how to play” Jose Mourinho

Europe is funding the war not Chelsea football club

f1dave
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dirkvanadidas wrote:
[quote=f1dave]
I'd disagree. All junior sports I ever played at a school or club level had league tables. It gives you a sense of competitiveness and allows you to measure against the opposition. Everyone likes a bit of friendly competition - it's the ugly kids, coaches, and parents that make it a liability.


[quote]

nothing like adding the fear factor for 3 points at u7 to stifle creatvity. England only just got rid of leagues for u7/8 thanks to the effort of one coach in cirencester.

In the lineker post mortum of the 2010 world cup he interviewed the special one
In England, you teach your kids how to win. In Portugal and Spain they teach their kids how to play” Jose Mourinho



That's up to the coaches to teach creativity and technique and not just strength and booting it to the tall, fast kid. You can easily do that with a league table and a little trophy at season's end.

Australia dominated cricket for 15 years or so against England or so because of the fact that we do teach kids to win, not just "have a jolly good time, won't you". It's quite possible to do both and IMHO anyone who says otherwise is as bad as the "kick it long to Jimmy" coaches themselves.
krones3
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f1dave wrote:
dirkvanadidas wrote:
[quote=f1dave]
I'd disagree. All junior sports I ever played at a school or club level had league tables. It gives you a sense of competitiveness and allows you to measure against the opposition. Everyone likes a bit of friendly competition - it's the ugly kids, coaches, and parents that make it a liability.


[quote]

nothing like adding the fear factor for 3 points at u7 to stifle creatvity. England only just got rid of leagues for u7/8 thanks to the effort of one coach in cirencester.

In the lineker post mortum of the 2010 world cup he interviewed the special one
In England, you teach your kids how to win. In Portugal and Spain they teach their kids how to play” Jose Mourinho



That's up to the coaches to teach creativity and technique and not just strength and booting it to the tall, fast kid. You can easily do that with a league table and a little trophy at season's end.

Australia dominated cricket for 15 years or so against England or so because of the fact that we do teach kids to win, not just "have a jolly good time, won't you". It's quite possible to do both and IMHO anyone who says otherwise is as bad as the "kick it long to Jimmy" coaches themselves.


IMO you are wrong
We have no table in the outdoor winter comp and unfortunately a table in the summer futsal comp.
No table is important to creativity.
We can not control the actions of over the top coaches or parents but not having a table seems to help.

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Fair enough, we'll agree to disagree.
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as we now have the small sided games/football, as a progression up the field sizes there should be a progression up to a competive level. In Nepean (Penrith NSW) competition starts at U10, and I have followed the U10s tables for the couple of year' prior. It is my opinion that grading can never be right, as we talking about kids for which we have no prior years games to compare history. It also generaly the lower grades that have obvious teams that dont belong.

I would suggest that U10 & U11s could play under a swiss pairing system. This way it means that over the year the teams would sort themselves out and then teams would have more close games. This would mean that chances are your team can't win the comp and can concentrate on improving your team.

Then as the ages progres you can have the better teams playing regular comp and the lower grades remaining in the swiss pairing system.

This gives kids a step between non competitive and traditional competitive.
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gavinh73 wrote:
as we now have the small sided games/football, as a progression up the field sizes there should be a progression up to a competive level. In Nepean (Penrith NSW) competition starts at U10, and I have followed the U10s tables for the couple of year' prior. It is my opinion that grading can never be right, as we talking about kids for which we have no prior years games to compare history. It also generaly the lower grades that have obvious teams that dont belong.

I would suggest that U10 & U11s could play under a swiss pairing system. This way it means that over the year the teams would sort themselves out and then teams would have more close games. This would mean that chances are your team can't win the comp and can concentrate on improving your team.

Then as the ages progres you can have the better teams playing regular comp and the lower grades remaining in the swiss pairing system.

This gives kids a step between non competitive and traditional competitive.

great ideas but it is not the kids that have a problem.
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gavinh73 wrote:
This gives kids a step between non competitive and traditional competitive.


I have never seen uncompetitive game in ssf, the only non competitive game was in the u17 world cup.

'leagues' are ok as long as the results arent published and teams can play similar ability teams

Europe is funding the war not Chelsea football club

icoulddoitbetter
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The only time I use a structure for my U10 team is during kick-offs (I let the kids sort it amongst themselves and encourage them to rotate) or during set pieces i.e. corner kicks.

I use a simple 'space in attack'/'all mark in defence' ideology to teach co-operative attack and defence when in play.

I don't see the point of forcing children into a shape unnecessarily and unnaturally ..it is counter productive in their development as a player.

That being said these are not Representative players..they are competitive though. They will probably start using a set formation next season. But by that stage, using my current approach, children will naturally develop into a certain position they feel comfortable in.

This method also allows kids to learn by experience. "Why did the other team score those goals" .. no it was not because the 3 kids I put as defenders stuffed up, it was because the whole team did not do their job. Marking up 1 on 1 in defense and creating situations where we have more players than the other team in an area.

Edited by icoulddoitbetter: 29/6/2011 05:38:49 PM

Edited by icoulddoitbetter: 29/6/2011 05:42:35 PM
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icoulddoitbetter wrote:
The only time I use a structure for my U10 team is during kick-offs (I let the kids sort it amongst themselves and encourage them to rotate) or during set pieces i.e. corner kicks.

I use a simple 'space in attack'/'all mark in defence' ideology to teach co-operative attack and defence when in play.

I don't see the point of forcing children into a shape unnecessarily and unnaturally ..it is counter productive in their development as a player.

That being said these are not Representative players..they are competitive though. They will probably start using a set formation next season. But by that stage, using my current approach, children will naturally develop into a certain position they feel comfortable in.

This method also allows kids to learn by experience. "Why did the other team score those goals" .. no it was not because the 3 kids I put as defenders stuffed up, it was because the whole team did not do their job. Marking up 1 on 1 in defense and creating situations where we have more players than the other team in an area.


All credit to you.

Your ideology sits well with me.

Broadly, you should set your U10's out as forwards, midfield and defenders, with 'one instruction' individual roles.

Anything else is a distraction and classic "majoring in the minor shit".


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Hey Judy, you forgot to include in your post "you're shit, your team is shit, your coaching system is shit, and the FFA are shit. Things were better in my day."

Because, you know, all you do is troll rather than have an opinion... ;)
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f1dave wrote:
Hey Judy, you forgot to include in your post "you're shit, your team is shit, your coaching system is shit, and the FFA are shit. Things were better in my day."

Because, you know, all you do is troll rather than have an opinion... ;)


:d

My 442 aim is to educate those who are football challenged.

I am reasonably happy with the progress that's currently being made.
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Judy Free wrote:
f1dave wrote:
Hey Judy, you forgot to include in your post "you're shit, your team is shit, your coaching system is shit, and the FFA are shit. Things were better in my day."

Because, you know, all you do is troll rather than have an opinion... ;)


:d

My 442 aim is to educate those who are football challenged.

I am reasonably happy with the progress that's currently being made.

:lol: It also helps you have stopped going in with both feet off the ground and studs showing :lol: Other than when Muscat-like you have the red mist descend because of Decentric's existence!

The thing about football - the important thing about football - is its not just about football.
- Sir Terry Pratchett in Unseen Academicals
For pro/rel in Australia across the entire pyramid, the removal of artificial impediments to the development of the game and its players.
On sabbatical Youth Coach and formerly part of The Cove FC

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General Ashnak wrote:
:lol: It also helps you have stopped going in with both feet off the ground and studs showing :lol:


There's some truth in that.

General Ashnak wrote:
:Other than when Muscat-like you have the red mist descend because of Decentric's existence!


Nah.

He may be a bit of a wet-behind-the-ears doofus but he is essentially harmless.

Speaking of D, I wonder he's busy doing a bit of reverse engineering of the cayenne vee bee thingy, in an effort to statistically claim that the Joeys were desperately unlucky?

I'll keep a watch on this space. :lol:


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http://www.footballqueensland.com.au/index.php?display=item&id=1475

Paul lonton developing talented indigenous kids.

god help us.

Most hopeless development coach in Queensland history.
GO

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                                             General Ashnak wrote: :lol: It also helps you have stopped going in...
Judy Free - 14 Years Ago
                                             http://www.footballqueensland.com.au/index.php?display=item&id=1475...
krones3 - 14 Years Ago


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