Pros and Cons of the 1- 4-3-3 System of Play [FFT Blog]


Pros and Cons of the 1- 4-3-3 System of Play [FFT Blog]

Author
Message
Begbie
Begbie
Amateur
Amateur (503 reputation)Amateur (503 reputation)Amateur (503 reputation)Amateur (503 reputation)Amateur (503 reputation)Amateur (503 reputation)Amateur (503 reputation)Amateur (503 reputation)Amateur (503 reputation)Amateur (503 reputation)Amateur (503 reputation)

Group: Forum Members
Posts: 502, Visits: 0
LarneTim;17967684 wrote:
test.
test
Denback
Denback
Under 7s
Under 7s (19 reputation)Under 7s (19 reputation)Under 7s (19 reputation)Under 7s (19 reputation)Under 7s (19 reputation)Under 7s (19 reputation)Under 7s (19 reputation)Under 7s (19 reputation)Under 7s (19 reputation)Under 7s (19 reputation)Under 7s (19 reputation)

Group: Forum Members
Posts: 19, Visits: 0
People really don't get it , all talking about tactics , if you have to teach the U-10 to play a system ?
The 1:4:3:3 or whatever variation is just a tool to create opportunities for player to develop , explore and making their own football decisions.
Choosing for this development tool gives the player an ideal attribute to find solutions , technical and tactical without to much influence of the coach , he is only there to supply the session for the kids and control the organisation.
I am getting so tired about the discussion : We need a Brazilian or German or Spanish or New Zealand curriculum or we need an Australian curriculum , whatever that might be.
What we need is to bring back the street football at our training fields and help the kids/girls to play football like playing on the street without some coach shouting on the side line
jedirat
jedirat
Under 7s
Under 7s (1 reputation)Under 7s (1 reputation)Under 7s (1 reputation)Under 7s (1 reputation)Under 7s (1 reputation)Under 7s (1 reputation)Under 7s (1 reputation)Under 7s (1 reputation)Under 7s (1 reputation)Under 7s (1 reputation)Under 7s (1 reputation)

Group: Forum Members
Posts: 1, Visits: 0
•   Finding athletic players to play the system.

hmmm... what do you mean by athletic? Yes FCB players have good stamina, but I do not think they are athletic by aussie coaches standards! Most of them would never get picked by any aussie coach to play due to their size and average build.

It all lies in skill, intelligence and hard work. It is far easier to teach flat-static formations like 442 as player do not need to think much or have good awareness...

Problem in Australia is that coaches are asked to play 433 but they do not pick (or have available) right "material"...

It is like if you asked a drummer play violin... they are both musicians but need different set of skills...
dirk vanadidas
dirk vanadidas
Pro
Pro (3.1K reputation)Pro (3.1K reputation)Pro (3.1K reputation)Pro (3.1K reputation)Pro (3.1K reputation)Pro (3.1K reputation)Pro (3.1K reputation)Pro (3.1K reputation)Pro (3.1K reputation)Pro (3.1K reputation)Pro (3.1K reputation)

Group: Forum Members
Posts: 2.9K, Visits: 0
[quote=Decentric
Must admit I often don't get past the Game Training to the Training Game.[/quote]

surely you can link the sessions through the week and not restart from fresh each time?
So that you do items 1,2,4 in session one and then 2,3,4 in session two.

Europe is funding the war not Chelsea football club

Gregory Parker
Gregory Parker
Fan
Fan (65 reputation)Fan (65 reputation)Fan (65 reputation)Fan (65 reputation)Fan (65 reputation)Fan (65 reputation)Fan (65 reputation)Fan (65 reputation)Fan (65 reputation)Fan (65 reputation)Fan (65 reputation)

Group: Forum Members
Posts: 65, Visits: 0
Agreed, I have problems with this as well! Last night I introduced a new pass pattern which involved the whole team with overlaps from the 2 and 5. This took longer than I though and I limited the Training Game.

We only have a limited time with the players. Chunk the topic down and be very specific and organised. The 5 Ws.
Decentric
Decentric
Legend
Legend (23K reputation)Legend (23K reputation)Legend (23K reputation)Legend (23K reputation)Legend (23K reputation)Legend (23K reputation)Legend (23K reputation)Legend (23K reputation)Legend (23K reputation)Legend (23K reputation)Legend (23K reputation)

Group: Awaiting Activation
Posts: 22K, Visits: 0
Gregory Parker wrote:
After doing coaching sessions at a Western Sydney Club (Mt. Druitt Town Rangers FC) recently it was indeed refreshing to see a club that has embraced the national curriculum. The club has recently added a womens program as well which is showing promise.

This is what I observed:
- all teams play a 1-4-3-3 system.
- training sessions consist of pass patterns (including dynamic stretching), positional games, training game and game training (with warm down)
- all players know their position by number
- players showing great ability are played up a year.
- coaches aspire to attain AFC Licences

The style of play is very attacking and exciting. There is genuine excitment within the club and a culture of constant improvement and progression.

Well done and trust your youth teams take out the club championship.


It sounds good.

There are still a lot of recalcitrants around though.

Must admit I often don't get past the Game Training to the Training Game.
Gregory Parker
Gregory Parker
Fan
Fan (65 reputation)Fan (65 reputation)Fan (65 reputation)Fan (65 reputation)Fan (65 reputation)Fan (65 reputation)Fan (65 reputation)Fan (65 reputation)Fan (65 reputation)Fan (65 reputation)Fan (65 reputation)

Group: Forum Members
Posts: 65, Visits: 0
After doing coaching sessions at a Western Sydney Club (Mt. Druitt Town Rangers FC) recently it was indeed refreshing to see a club that has embraced the national curriculum. The club has recently added a womens program as well which is showing promise.

This is what I observed:
- all teams play a 1-4-3-3 system.
- training sessions consist of pass patterns (including dynamic stretching), positional games, training game and game training (with warm down)
- all players know their position by number
- players showing great ability are played up a year.
- coaches aspire to attain AFC Licences

The style of play is very attacking and exciting. There is genuine excitment within the club and a culture of constant improvement and progression.

Well done and trust your youth teams take out the club championship.
thupercoach
thupercoach
World Class
World Class (8.4K reputation)World Class (8.4K reputation)World Class (8.4K reputation)World Class (8.4K reputation)World Class (8.4K reputation)World Class (8.4K reputation)World Class (8.4K reputation)World Class (8.4K reputation)World Class (8.4K reputation)World Class (8.4K reputation)World Class (8.4K reputation)

Group: Forum Members
Posts: 8.3K, Visits: 0
dirkvanadidas wrote:
thupercoach wrote:
dirkvanadidas wrote:
thupercoach wrote:
I may be coaching some U12s next season in what I believe is the last time they'll be playing less than 11 a side, it's a 9 a side comp I believe.

Modern orthodoxy demands that I play a 2-3-3 but I believe I can teach them triangles aplenty with an easier to learn 2-4-2. Their previous coach had them in a 2-3-3 but they learnt sweet FA as he isn't a football person.

Any thoughts why I shouldn't?



NC says 3-2-3 and its a piece off piss when you go to 4-2-3-1 at 11 aside, easiest transition ever to 11 aside after playing 323 for 2 years.


Oh, 3-2-3... Never thought of that one...

OK, what do the defenders do then? (other than defend of course) Is any of the 3 expected to push up in that system? (I'd be concerned if they weren't) Who defends behind the wide strikers? - or do they drop with the play, forming a 3-4-1 defensively?

Also, how rigid is the system regarding keeping the "wingers" out wide? How much can I encourage a wide player to cut in, something I am happy to do?

If I had to play that system I'd get one of the wide defenders to push up and support the wide attacker with the other wide defender tucking in. Defensively I'd get the wide attacker to drop with the play on his side and keep the other one free for when we get the ball back, but ready to drop once the play switches to his side.

I tend to coach attacking more than defensive when coaching kids - they can learn to defend when they're older but the movement and passing is something that needs to be imprinted on their brain as early as possible IMO.

That's what makes sense to me anyway.

Another question - how do you switch from 3 at the back at 9 a side to 4 at the back at 11 a side? One of my reasons for preferring 2-4-2 is that the wide guys can learn to play fullback as well as learning to play winger. Just a thought.



how do you play out from back with 2 defenders ?
i encoraged the cb to be a ball playing cb and notjust a stopper,sometimes the mid would drop for the cb when he went forward and then lost posession similr to tilting midfield in 433, rb and lb push up and support rw lw and take all throws and free kicks on their side.
2 mids, 1 stay 1 go when attacking just like the 6 and 8 at 11 aside, both drop when defending
rw and lw press the oppo rb and lb when they play out cf press cb,
so the areas the rb rw lw lb and cf are the same as 11 aside,

all you get at 11 is xtra cb, and a permanant ataccking mid, the other roles and space you cover remain the same.

wingers will naturally at the age take the ball to the side of thier strongest foot which normally means outside for a right foot rw conversely left foot left winger.


No argument with any of it, will give it a go. Re CBs - they are there mainly to defend but also to pass the ball to the wide guys and DM. I try to give them a run in another position as well, so it isn;t a case of two kids staying at the back the whole season. I generally aim to give the boys a couple of positions to learn and master rather than just one, or indeed a multitude which is also the wrong thing to do.

In the 3-2-3 when the CB pushes up you can just get the two wide defenders to compress a bit, and the DM ready to drop when you lose the ball.

On another note, at 6 a side last Saturday my boys played two triangles in a row (at the back) with the same players and got themselves to the point where the triangle was all they were thinking about, and probably would've played another one if I hadn;t told them to look up and pass it to someone else...:lol: :lol:

Well I found it funny anyway...
dirk vanadidas
dirk vanadidas
Pro
Pro (3.1K reputation)Pro (3.1K reputation)Pro (3.1K reputation)Pro (3.1K reputation)Pro (3.1K reputation)Pro (3.1K reputation)Pro (3.1K reputation)Pro (3.1K reputation)Pro (3.1K reputation)Pro (3.1K reputation)Pro (3.1K reputation)

Group: Forum Members
Posts: 2.9K, Visits: 0
thupercoach wrote:
dirkvanadidas wrote:
thupercoach wrote:
I may be coaching some U12s next season in what I believe is the last time they'll be playing less than 11 a side, it's a 9 a side comp I believe.

Modern orthodoxy demands that I play a 2-3-3 but I believe I can teach them triangles aplenty with an easier to learn 2-4-2. Their previous coach had them in a 2-3-3 but they learnt sweet FA as he isn't a football person.

Any thoughts why I shouldn't?



NC says 3-2-3 and its a piece off piss when you go to 4-2-3-1 at 11 aside, easiest transition ever to 11 aside after playing 323 for 2 years.


Oh, 3-2-3... Never thought of that one...

OK, what do the defenders do then? (other than defend of course) Is any of the 3 expected to push up in that system? (I'd be concerned if they weren't) Who defends behind the wide strikers? - or do they drop with the play, forming a 3-4-1 defensively?

Also, how rigid is the system regarding keeping the "wingers" out wide? How much can I encourage a wide player to cut in, something I am happy to do?

If I had to play that system I'd get one of the wide defenders to push up and support the wide attacker with the other wide defender tucking in. Defensively I'd get the wide attacker to drop with the play on his side and keep the other one free for when we get the ball back, but ready to drop once the play switches to his side.

I tend to coach attacking more than defensive when coaching kids - they can learn to defend when they're older but the movement and passing is something that needs to be imprinted on their brain as early as possible IMO.

That's what makes sense to me anyway.

Another question - how do you switch from 3 at the back at 9 a side to 4 at the back at 11 a side? One of my reasons for preferring 2-4-2 is that the wide guys can learn to play fullback as well as learning to play winger. Just a thought.



how do you play out from back with 2 defenders ?
i encoraged the cb to be a ball playing cb and notjust a stopper,sometimes the mid would drop for the cb when he went forward and then lost posession similr to tilting midfield in 433, rb and lb push up and support rw lw and take all throws and free kicks on their side.
2 mids, 1 stay 1 go when attacking just like the 6 and 8 at 11 aside, both drop when defending
rw and lw press the oppo rb and lb when they play out cf press cb,
so the areas the rb rw lw lb and cf are the same as 11 aside,

all you get at 11 is xtra cb, and a permanant ataccking mid, the other roles and space you cover remain the same.

wingers will naturally at the age take the ball to the side of thier strongest foot which normally means outside for a right foot rw conversely left foot left winger.

Europe is funding the war not Chelsea football club

thupercoach
thupercoach
World Class
World Class (8.4K reputation)World Class (8.4K reputation)World Class (8.4K reputation)World Class (8.4K reputation)World Class (8.4K reputation)World Class (8.4K reputation)World Class (8.4K reputation)World Class (8.4K reputation)World Class (8.4K reputation)World Class (8.4K reputation)World Class (8.4K reputation)

Group: Forum Members
Posts: 8.3K, Visits: 0
dirkvanadidas wrote:
thupercoach wrote:
I may be coaching some U12s next season in what I believe is the last time they'll be playing less than 11 a side, it's a 9 a side comp I believe.

Modern orthodoxy demands that I play a 2-3-3 but I believe I can teach them triangles aplenty with an easier to learn 2-4-2. Their previous coach had them in a 2-3-3 but they learnt sweet FA as he isn't a football person.

Any thoughts why I shouldn't?



NC says 3-2-3 and its a piece off piss when you go to 4-2-3-1 at 11 aside, easiest transition ever to 11 aside after playing 323 for 2 years.


Oh, 3-2-3... Never thought of that one...

OK, what do the defenders do then? (other than defend of course) Is any of the 3 expected to push up in that system? (I'd be concerned if they weren't) Who defends behind the wide strikers? - or do they drop with the play, forming a 3-4-1 defensively?

Also, how rigid is the system regarding keeping the "wingers" out wide? How much can I encourage a wide player to cut in, something I am happy to do?

If I had to play that system I'd get one of the wide defenders to push up and support the wide attacker with the other wide defender tucking in. Defensively I'd get the wide attacker to drop with the play on his side and keep the other one free for when we get the ball back, but ready to drop once the play switches to his side.

I tend to coach attacking more than defensive when coaching kids - they can learn to defend when they're older but the movement and passing is something that needs to be imprinted on their brain as early as possible IMO.

That's what makes sense to me anyway.

Another question - how do you switch from 3 at the back at 9 a side to 4 at the back at 11 a side? One of my reasons for preferring 2-4-2 is that the wide guys can learn to play fullback as well as learning to play winger. Just a thought.
dirk vanadidas
dirk vanadidas
Pro
Pro (3.1K reputation)Pro (3.1K reputation)Pro (3.1K reputation)Pro (3.1K reputation)Pro (3.1K reputation)Pro (3.1K reputation)Pro (3.1K reputation)Pro (3.1K reputation)Pro (3.1K reputation)Pro (3.1K reputation)Pro (3.1K reputation)

Group: Forum Members
Posts: 2.9K, Visits: 0
thupercoach wrote:
I may be coaching some U12s next season in what I believe is the last time they'll be playing less than 11 a side, it's a 9 a side comp I believe.

Modern orthodoxy demands that I play a 2-3-3 but I believe I can teach them triangles aplenty with an easier to learn 2-4-2. Their previous coach had them in a 2-3-3 but they learnt sweet FA as he isn't a football person.

Any thoughts why I shouldn't?



NC says 3-2-3 and its a piece off piss when you go to 4-2-3-1 at 11 aside, easiest transition ever to 11 aside after playing 323 for 2 years.

Europe is funding the war not Chelsea football club

thupercoach
thupercoach
World Class
World Class (8.4K reputation)World Class (8.4K reputation)World Class (8.4K reputation)World Class (8.4K reputation)World Class (8.4K reputation)World Class (8.4K reputation)World Class (8.4K reputation)World Class (8.4K reputation)World Class (8.4K reputation)World Class (8.4K reputation)World Class (8.4K reputation)

Group: Forum Members
Posts: 8.3K, Visits: 0
I may be coaching some U12s next season in what I believe is the last time they'll be playing less than 11 a side, it's a 9 a side comp I believe.

Modern orthodoxy demands that I play a 2-3-3 but I believe I can teach them triangles aplenty with an easier to learn 2-4-2. Their previous coach had them in a 2-3-3 but they learnt sweet FA as he isn't a football person.

I'd be getting the wide kids to double up as fullbacks and wingers; ensuring that of the two central midfielders one always stays and the other supports in attack (not designated roles, either will be allowed to do so); and of the two strikers one will always be dropping a touch to link with the midfield and spread the play (again not a designated striker). Which means there is plenty of opportunity to create triangles all over the field and for plenty of flexibility.

I've been coaching the boys in the summer 6 a side comp and they've improved out of sight, learning to pass the ball and really getting what football is about. So I am sure I can get them to continue the passing game on the bigger pitch without the 2-3-3 which I believe isn't going to be of help to them.

Any thoughts why I shouldn't?


dirk vanadidas
dirk vanadidas
Pro
Pro (3.1K reputation)Pro (3.1K reputation)Pro (3.1K reputation)Pro (3.1K reputation)Pro (3.1K reputation)Pro (3.1K reputation)Pro (3.1K reputation)Pro (3.1K reputation)Pro (3.1K reputation)Pro (3.1K reputation)Pro (3.1K reputation)

Group: Forum Members
Posts: 2.9K, Visits: 0
from anon at passdribbleshoot,

4-3-3 Exploiting Space
This was written with adults in mind, but is still a great learning tool for all coaches.
A (hopefully) comprehensive guide to recognise attacking movements with 433 and to improve your overall decision making with the ball.
Though the audience for this guide is intended for the novice and intermediate level, more experienced players may find useful insights. I would like to stress that everything in this guide is my own opinion and whilst I do have my own philosophy on how the game should be played, I have tried to be as thorough as possible to accommodate for a broader range of playing styles.
Introduction
I will be breaking this guide into sections as it will be quite long. I have drawn diagrams in situations where a visual is needed to help illustrate the points I am making. In all examples the reading is the red ‘attacking’ team and the opponent is the blue ‘defending’ team. I will assume that the reader also has basic footballing knowledge. As far as playing style goes, this article will favour possession based teams and players who are patient. When I say possession, I don’t mean players who constantly pass the ball across their back four and think they’re Barcelona. I’ve summed up a quick list, of what I feel, are the prime qualities of attacking in a 433 system:
Score goals – It sounds so obvious, but it needs reiterating. You can pass the ball about and have the team look smooth, but if the score is 0-0 it doesn’t matter. You need purpose to your passing and movement. If you’re not scoring goals but can keep the ball, some of the ideas in this article will be helpful for you.
Patience – I mentioned this earlier and I’m mentioning it again. Holding sprint, contain and second man press all day means you are not patient. Whether you are attacking or defending, it usually is just a case of waiting for your opponent to make a mistake. Some of the attacking ideas in this guide will hope you spot the mistakes and take advantage of them when you do. Even if you spot a mistake, don’t panic and rush to exploit it because usually in doing so you’ll make a mistake of your own. Keep calm and play your game.
Ego – What I mean here is your ability to accept defeat and learn from it. The worst thing you can do when you make a mistake is not learn from it. If you lose a game, even if you were the better player, you can still take something away from it. I know it’s just a game and FIFA can be annoying at times, but getting angry when you play often just leads to more mistakes being made.
Sweat – I’m going to mention sweaty goals right here and get it out the way at the beginning. I am not saying that every 1v1 you get you should immediately look to cross. If the opportunity presents itself for a ground through ball/pass and it’s a clean run through on goal, I am going to take it. Messi wouldn’t complain about scoring a tap in and neither should you. The easiest way to score a goal is if the goal is empty, so why not do just that? If you get sweaty goals scored against you, then you probably aren’t as good at defending as you think you are. Relax, it happens to everyone.
Setting up
I am not going to tell you which players to go out and buy as everyone has their own preferences but I do suggest the following for improving your ability to best use 433.
Passing – Your players don’t need to be world beaters, but they should be comfortable in possession.
Pace – I’m not promoting pace abuse, but you will need quick wingers. The back four also needs to be relatively quick. Full backs with good stamina help massively as they can be up and down the flanks, providing you with consistent out-balls. The higher up the pitch you have your backline the more mobile your CBs need to be.
CBs – I tend to have hybrids of strength and speed players here, so they can cover each other well. People have other preferences granted, usually a brick wall and a sweeper, but like I said earlier, this article is my own opinion. At least one CB should have a strong long passing stat (possibly even the driven pass trait). While I will talk about short passing primarily in this guide, longer passers are useful for hitting long diagonals in the event of plan B, or if there’s a big gap that screams for a ball over the top.
Midfield trio – I usually line up with a combination of passer/creator/destroyer, with the destroyer being the CDM (or middle of the three). It is a single pivot midfield, which means I will be using one holding midfielder and not two (like in 4231). My CDM will be a competent passer and should (hopefully) be more physical than the other two midfielders. This is the most important role in the team and it should be a player you are really comfortable on the ball with.
The number 9 – This is your lone striker. Everyone will have their preference and will tell you who they think is best. I personally like anyone who is a good finisher and has good movement (basically anyone who scores goals).
Objectives
If you’re not scoring goals, then the objective is pretty simple: Score more goals. The easiest way to score is to get a 1v1 with the keeper (naturally), but you need to get in that situation. You get there by taking advantage of the space offered to you, usually offered up by the opponent making a mistake. This guide is here to help you recognise, create and exploit the aforementioned ‘space’.
Usually to be able to get the ball into workable space, you need to have the ball in your midfield trio so you can then dictate the play. Having the ball in your defence limits your passing options, as does having it with your front three. The most options come from having the ball in your midfield three, so naturally having the most options means you have a greater variety of ways to exploit your opponent.
When I say midfield trio, these are the players I am referring to:

We’ll start with the absolute basics. All attacks have a beginning and that often means starting from the goalkeeper.
Playing out from the back
You typically play out from the back because you want control. It’s slower than a punt up the pitch, but it has a more guaranteed outcome. Depending on the type of goalkeeper you selected, some will have better throwing than others and some will have better kicking than others. I tend to lean towards keepers with better kicking. If I have the time and space, I will always drop the ball to the goalkeepers feet and pass the ball out. I personally find that passes with the feet are a lot easier to aim than throws.
I will walk through 3 examples to get the ball from your keeper to the midfield trio. All have their time and place. You should pick the one that offers the safest route (the one with players in the most space). Fortunately, all of these situations have the same player movement.
These are the movements you need to look out for. Not all players will move, which is why some options will become more favourable than others.

Your holding midfielder should drop between the centre backs to create a 3v2 at the back. The CBs spread out to allow space for the CDM. They also drag out the opposition strikers giving more room to your other CMs. The fullbacks push forward to give more options.
Short options:

Either roll/pass the ball out to one of the three options. The option you pick should be the player you are most comfortable on the ball with given the level of pressure he will be under. If you feel you can turn quickly with your CDM and lose the two strikers, then this is the quickest way to get the ball into your midfield trio. I don’t recommend trying to dribble your way out, but if there is space behind the CDM and you can get a clear pass to him then by all means go for it. If not the CB with the most space is the best option.

When the ball is with the CB, he has 3 options. The favoured option is to play the ball out to the fullback, who can then pass it inside to the midfield trio. The other options are either the CDM if they are still dropping deep, or back to the keeper. Either way, you’ve still got the ball. When the CBs are spread wide and the CDM drops in, it gives them more freedom to bring the ball out from the back, something Gerard Pique does excellently for Barcelona in real life. Handy information if you’re struggling to break down packed defences, which should become more relevant later on.
The long option:

The long option bypasses the CBs and goes straight to the fullbacks. The pass/throw should be well weighted so that it is easy to control and keep possession. Once at the fullback they should pass the ball inside to the CM, or back to the CB if there is no option inside.

The space between the lines
Now that you’ve gotten the ball to your midfield trio and are comfortable keeping it; the next step is to force a move forward and create attacking space. The most dangerous space is between the opponent’s midfield and defence. As highlighted:

When inside this zone, you’re reliant on either a clever piece of movement from your front three or a mistake from your opponent. Your opponent will make a mistake by moving a player forward out of their defence, which will leave space in behind that player. The idea is to exploit that space making driving runs with your players and then playing a through ball in the channels or over the top.
Naturally to make it easier to exploit this space, it is optimal to make this space bigger. We can do this by dropping the CMs deeper and pushing the fullbacks forward. Essentially making a 5 man wall across the pitch, meaning you can easily keep the ball until a player makes a driving run.

Driving runs – Movements to look out for
I’m not going to describe at length how to ping the ball around your midfield, but you should recycle the ball until one of your players makes a driving run. This should be fairy noticeable with the new attacking AI. The driving runs can come from pretty much anywhere. If the runs come from fullback then you can create overloads on the wings and one-two your way forward.

It can come from one of the midfielders too. You have 3v2 in this zone, so it is possible to rotate and pass it around. A light chip over the top and a run through could also work. Drifts from your CMs or a drive forward from your CDM. Plenty of options here:

My personal favourite is having one of the wingers drive inside. It is probably the most direct method possible. As I outlined earlier, if one of the CBs has a solid long passing stat, they should be to hit long diagonals to the wingers. The drive inside naturally forces one of the CBs to react; leaving a great chance you can get a through ball off to either your striker or opposite winger:

You can even utilise the standard false 9 movement and drive the wingers in behind:

Ball retention
The main purpose of 433 is to be able to keep the ball until openings occur. The best openings that you’ll get, in all honesty, are on the counter-attack. This is because a disorganised defence is a lot easier to break down than a structured one. The reason why I don’t adopt playing on the counter is because I feel I’m much better attacking than I am defending. If you’re a competent defender, playing on the counter could be worthwhile, although the idea of letting the opponent attack frequently doesn’t sit right with me. My belief throughout my footballing career is that if my team has the ball, the opponent cannot score. Like I stated earlier, this doesn’t mean passing the ball needlessly around my defence. But if I’m passing it needlessly around my wingers and midfield, it’s cause I’m looking for an opening or I’m content to protect a lead and invite the opponent to make another mistake.
Tiki-Taka couldn’t really thrive in the UT12 environment because the pace of the game was too fast. While there is an emphasis on quick passing, the progression up the pitch was fairly steady. The slow build up was made even slower by the reluctance of players to make off the ball runs and static marking. With the attacking AI improvements in FIFA13 and hopefully a reduction in pace, it definitely is something to consider for UT13 and/or H2H gameplay.
As far as passing is concerned, 433 is just a series of triangles. The idea being that the player on the ball has at least 2 options all the time.
The only other piece to the tiki-taka puzzle is tempo control. You need to keep the midfield ticking over so it doesn’t become static. By letting the ball do the work, you should hardly need to sprint. By recycling the ball it gives new opportunities to spot mistakes made by the opponent and more chances to see driving off the ball movements. Slow and steady build up until you’re ready to pounce and then the transition from ball retention to goal throat must be swift. If it’s at the same controlled pace then attacks should be relatively easy to defend.



Europe is funding the war not Chelsea football club

scorpio17
scorpio17
Under 7s
Under 7s (1 reputation)Under 7s (1 reputation)Under 7s (1 reputation)Under 7s (1 reputation)Under 7s (1 reputation)Under 7s (1 reputation)Under 7s (1 reputation)Under 7s (1 reputation)Under 7s (1 reputation)Under 7s (1 reputation)Under 7s (1 reputation)

Group: Forum Members
Posts: 1, Visits: 0
I have this year seen the benefits of a good youth team playing in a 1-4-3-3 formation.
My 14 year old son is playing in a 12 team 14th Grade Junior Premier League in 2012. This year the teams coach decided to alter the formation from the standard 1-4-4-2 formation that had been played over the previous two years (the team's top position over past two years being 5th) to a 1-4-3-3 formation.
After the 1st Round of 11 games in their League this year, his team is unbeaten with 11 wins from 11. (GF 54, GA 9). The coach also switched some players playing positions around as well. My son who is a tall fast, fit, right footed Striker/Midfielder (but who is also very good off both feet) was switched to play at left Back. I, like most of the parents and team members (including my son) was surprised by this positional switch, but it has paid off as my son has set up a number of goals by using his speed to overlap his left sided wide attacker and cross balls into the box (with his left foot). His team has found that the more balls that go into the opponents box, the more chances that are created, and consequently the more goals that are scored. Also, by having 3 players in the central midfield area my son's team has proved to be hard to break down for opposing teams.
The only downside in that the two players on each flank put in a lot of hard work going up and back down their respective sidelines when either attacking or defending. As my son's team's two left sided players are amongst the fittest the team's two reserves usually have to fill in at Right Back and Right Striker to maintain the team's momentum.
Decentric
Decentric
Legend
Legend (23K reputation)Legend (23K reputation)Legend (23K reputation)Legend (23K reputation)Legend (23K reputation)Legend (23K reputation)Legend (23K reputation)Legend (23K reputation)Legend (23K reputation)Legend (23K reputation)Legend (23K reputation)

Group: Awaiting Activation
Posts: 22K, Visits: 0
The 1-4-3-3 with one screener in the midfield triangle.


..X................X...............X.................X.....

............................X

................X......................X

....X.......................X.........................X

This was used by AU in attack against Gamba.





1-4-5-1



X................X...............X.................X.....

............................X

..X..............X......................X............X

...........................X.........................


This 1-4-3-3 becomes a 1-4-5-1 in defence when the two wingers (in AU's case Vidosic and Ramsey) move back and play in a line with the two attacking mids.










Edited by Decentric: 21/3/2012 03:23:01 PM
Decentric
Decentric
Legend
Legend (23K reputation)Legend (23K reputation)Legend (23K reputation)Legend (23K reputation)Legend (23K reputation)Legend (23K reputation)Legend (23K reputation)Legend (23K reputation)Legend (23K reputation)Legend (23K reputation)Legend (23K reputation)

Group: Awaiting Activation
Posts: 22K, Visits: 0
AU's performance against Gamba is an example of the 1-4-3-3 used very effectively as a defensive combination. They used a 1-4-5-1 in defence and a 1-4-3-3 in attack.

Aussiesrus, if you are reading this, this 1-4-5-2 is what I've always contended is a very good system to keep bodies in midfield with numerical advantage over the 1-4-4-2 with the flat midfield in particular, and even the diamond midfield.


The 1-4-5-1 system in defence, which reverted to a 1-4-3-3 in attack, was brilliant in organisation. The four in the midfield line, with Malik sitting behind, was superb. One or two players pressured the Gamba ball carrier, which caused a turnover for Malik or a CB to intercept.
The distancing between and within the lines was excellent. The shape was kept superbly throughout the game.

The back four also had the luxury of the full backs not chasing the Gamba wingers wide because aerial crosses were easy for the AU defenders. The structured the game so Gamba had space to cross on the flanks. They did and suffered the consequences.

I would give all AU players a 10 out of 10 for their off the ball work in defence.

What was also very impressive, was that AU kept the ball in neat triangles almost better than I've seen from an an Aussie club team before. They had less time and space from intense squeezing and full pressing by Gamba.


Forget domestic competition, the HAL, AU are the best Aussie club performers on the biggest stage.

It was also good that Djite received accolades for an excellent defensive game. Australian pundits/fans are too quick to denigrate a striker if s/he doesn't score goals.

Arthur
Arthur
World Class
World Class (5.5K reputation)World Class (5.5K reputation)World Class (5.5K reputation)World Class (5.5K reputation)World Class (5.5K reputation)World Class (5.5K reputation)World Class (5.5K reputation)World Class (5.5K reputation)World Class (5.5K reputation)World Class (5.5K reputation)World Class (5.5K reputation)

Group: Forum Members
Posts: 5.1K, Visits: 0
Gregory Parker wrote:
Playing a sweeper in the traditional 1-4-3-3 system is not recommended. The main reason is that there are not dedicated wide midfielders. This is a major weakness of the system as eluded to in this blog. The wingback should move across into these wide areas to defend. The centre backs move across and should be staggered. The wingback on the opposite side moves across as well. The midfield players do move across in the defensive phase, however loosing a central presence is a recipe for disaster. The system will quickly fall apart. Playing a modern zonal defensive system also negates the use of sweeper and provides a team with good structure and compact shape over a man marking system with higher physical demands.


While a sweeper not so much nowadays especially with flat back fours and players are expected to act "naturally" as a sweeper in some cases. But what about the libero?

Is Mascherano playing at centre back for barcelona a "de facto" Libero?

There is a trend of playing midfielders in defence because they offer better passing options while now adays teams defend in mass or numbers rather than relying on defensive players so you coaches feel it is less of a risk to do so.

But is it no different to when Beckenbauer and Baresi played this role?

Are these midfielders turned centre backs actually pushing into midfield in certain stages of the game to create a 3-4-3 situation and therefore outnumber and take control of the midfield when the situation arises.

I wonder if in Europe at the highest levels if now we have a game much more like chess. Where we have a beginning game/stratergy a middle game and an end game. By playing more mobile players we can adapt to the differing stages of the match and provoke our opponents into making errors or out numbering them in certain stages of the match such as defence (beginning of the game 4-3-3) then midfield (to gain control of the match 3-4-3) then attack (to finish off an opponent or risk everything for a draw or win 2-5-3).

Edited by Arthur: 15/3/2012 03:57:59 PM
Decentric
Decentric
Legend
Legend (23K reputation)Legend (23K reputation)Legend (23K reputation)Legend (23K reputation)Legend (23K reputation)Legend (23K reputation)Legend (23K reputation)Legend (23K reputation)Legend (23K reputation)Legend (23K reputation)Legend (23K reputation)

Group: Awaiting Activation
Posts: 22K, Visits: 0
Gregory Parker wrote:
I have Mr Cross's presentation. I had discussions with a few coaches over this matter. Was it man on man or a highly developed zonal system or pressing to shut down space? You would only consider such a system in highly developed players.

Zonal defending is a great way to start our players understanding a structure or methodology on the field. As for set plays, what system is best????????????????




I've usually used players to defend zonally, keeping a certain shape. Of course if there are few forwards to mark one can push up with the full backs, so a 1-4-3-3-can even become a 1- 2- 4 -4 in attack.


At corners every player has zone responsibility. I don['t know whether it is best or not though.
Gregory Parker
Gregory Parker
Fan
Fan (65 reputation)Fan (65 reputation)Fan (65 reputation)Fan (65 reputation)Fan (65 reputation)Fan (65 reputation)Fan (65 reputation)Fan (65 reputation)Fan (65 reputation)Fan (65 reputation)Fan (65 reputation)

Group: Forum Members
Posts: 65, Visits: 0
I have Mr Cross's presentation. I had discussions with a few coaches over this matter. Was it man on man or a highly developed zonal system or pressing to shut down space? You would only consider such a system in highly developed players.

Zonal defending is a great way to start our players understanding a structure or methodology on the field. As for set plays, what system is best????????????????

Decentric
Decentric
Legend
Legend (23K reputation)Legend (23K reputation)Legend (23K reputation)Legend (23K reputation)Legend (23K reputation)Legend (23K reputation)Legend (23K reputation)Legend (23K reputation)Legend (23K reputation)Legend (23K reputation)Legend (23K reputation)

Group: Awaiting Activation
Posts: 22K, Visits: 0
Gregory Parker wrote:
Playing a sweeper in the traditional 1-4-3-3 system is not recommended. The main reason is that there are not dedicated wide midfielders. This is a major weakness of the system as eluded to in this blog. The wingback should move across into these wide areas to defend. The centre backs move across and should be staggered. The wingback on the opposite side moves across as well. The midfield players do move across in the defensive phase, however loosing a central presence is a recipe for disaster. The system will quickly fall apart. .



I wonder if you can use three zonally, with one who is spare acting as a distributor?


X--------------X---------------X


---------------X

The spare (sweeper) can be either of the CBs.











Edited by Decentric: 15/3/2012 03:43:39 PM
Decentric
Decentric
Legend
Legend (23K reputation)Legend (23K reputation)Legend (23K reputation)Legend (23K reputation)Legend (23K reputation)Legend (23K reputation)Legend (23K reputation)Legend (23K reputation)Legend (23K reputation)Legend (23K reputation)Legend (23K reputation)

Group: Awaiting Activation
Posts: 22K, Visits: 0
Barca4Life wrote:
Can anyone explain the type of 433 that the Olyroos used against Iraq last night, the reason why they struggled to create chances let alone score not a single goal for the whole entire campaign! :(

Why they struggled to score let alone playing the 433 poorly is really concerning for the future

Edited by Barca4life: 15/3/2012 02:59:26 PM



To play any system effectively you have to have effective players relative to one's opponents. ATM our opponents have had better players than us at Olyroo level.

Whether it is due to a particular age group not being as good as their predecessors relative to their opponents, I don't know. I would rather follow this route than revert to long ball into the mixer to gain some short term results though.

The Australian development system in terms of style of play and training methodology is similar to Holland and Germany. I'm not sure about the elite pathway for players as young as 12 though. Alfred Galustian and Brian Clough think that players need to be 16-17 to make an accurate appraisal.
Clough, not noted for modesty, claimed even he was mediocre at 15.
Barca4Life
Barca4Life
Legend
Legend (14K reputation)Legend (14K reputation)Legend (14K reputation)Legend (14K reputation)Legend (14K reputation)Legend (14K reputation)Legend (14K reputation)Legend (14K reputation)Legend (14K reputation)Legend (14K reputation)Legend (14K reputation)

Group: Forum Members
Posts: 13K, Visits: 0
Can anyone explain the type of 433 that the Olyroos used against Iraq last night, the reason why they struggled to create chances let alone score not a single goal for the whole entire campaign! :(

Why they struggled to score let alone playing the 433 poorly is really concerning for the future

Edited by Barca4life: 15/3/2012 02:59:26 PM
Decentric
Decentric
Legend
Legend (23K reputation)Legend (23K reputation)Legend (23K reputation)Legend (23K reputation)Legend (23K reputation)Legend (23K reputation)Legend (23K reputation)Legend (23K reputation)Legend (23K reputation)Legend (23K reputation)Legend (23K reputation)

Group: Awaiting Activation
Posts: 22K, Visits: 0
Gregory Parker wrote:
Playing a modern zonal defensive system also negates the use of sweeper and provides a team with good structure and compact shape over a man marking system with higher physical demands.




Gregory, did you attend Kelly Cross's presentations a few years ago?

He traversed Australia providing an analysis of Argentina's under 20s using man marking, as opposed to zonal marking, at a World Cup. They won it.
Gregory Parker
Gregory Parker
Fan
Fan (65 reputation)Fan (65 reputation)Fan (65 reputation)Fan (65 reputation)Fan (65 reputation)Fan (65 reputation)Fan (65 reputation)Fan (65 reputation)Fan (65 reputation)Fan (65 reputation)Fan (65 reputation)

Group: Forum Members
Posts: 65, Visits: 0
Playing a sweeper in the traditional 1-4-3-3 system is not recommended. The main reason is that there are not dedicated wide midfielders. This is a major weakness of the system as eluded to in this blog. The wingback should move across into these wide areas to defend. The centre backs move across and should be staggered. The wingback on the opposite side moves across as well. The midfield players do move across in the defensive phase, however loosing a central presence is a recipe for disaster. The system will quickly fall apart. Playing a modern zonal defensive system also negates the use of sweeper and provides a team with good structure and compact shape over a man marking system with higher physical demands.
Decentric
Decentric
Legend
Legend (23K reputation)Legend (23K reputation)Legend (23K reputation)Legend (23K reputation)Legend (23K reputation)Legend (23K reputation)Legend (23K reputation)Legend (23K reputation)Legend (23K reputation)Legend (23K reputation)Legend (23K reputation)

Group: Awaiting Activation
Posts: 22K, Visits: 0
Arthur wrote:

Basically they don't have one, the Uruaguayan top level teams will adopt a formation before a game based on the requirements of the result. In fact as the game progresses and the circumstances dictate what result is required the formation will change.

For example if they need a draw they will start with a 4-5-1 formation if the opposition scores they will change to 4-3-3 to pull a goal back.

So they are aware of formations and they use different formations to acheive results but seem more fluid in its use even during matches. It means their players very tactically aware and is a requirement of the game there.

I find it interesting talking to him as a country with only 3 million people have acheived a lot in the game.



How did we ever beat Uruguay?


The 1-4-5-1 is the defensive version of the 1-4-3-3 with the attacking midfield of two screeners and the shadow striker.

The Dutch are very system orientated, but then again so is Postecoglou at Roar.
Arthur
Arthur
World Class
World Class (5.5K reputation)World Class (5.5K reputation)World Class (5.5K reputation)World Class (5.5K reputation)World Class (5.5K reputation)World Class (5.5K reputation)World Class (5.5K reputation)World Class (5.5K reputation)World Class (5.5K reputation)World Class (5.5K reputation)World Class (5.5K reputation)

Group: Forum Members
Posts: 5.1K, Visits: 0
I have a friend who coaches and is of Uruaguayan background. It is interesting to talk to him on the Uruaguayan philosophy on formations.

Basically they don't have one, the Uruaguayan top level teams will adopt a formation before a game based on the requirements of the result. In fact as the game progresses and the circumstances dictate what result is required the formation will change.

For example if they need a draw they will start with a 4-5-1 formation if the opposition scores they will change to 4-3-3 to pull a goal back.

So they are aware of formations and they use different formations to acheive results but seem more fluid in its use even during matches. It means their players very tactically aware and is a requirement of the game there.

I find it interesting talking to him as a country with only 3 million people have acheived a lot in the game.
Decentric
Decentric
Legend
Legend (23K reputation)Legend (23K reputation)Legend (23K reputation)Legend (23K reputation)Legend (23K reputation)Legend (23K reputation)Legend (23K reputation)Legend (23K reputation)Legend (23K reputation)Legend (23K reputation)Legend (23K reputation)

Group: Awaiting Activation
Posts: 22K, Visits: 0
krisskrash wrote:

If your wingers are tracking back this formation is almost like a 4-5-1 in defence and will not expose their flaws anymore than a 442



You should be able to see a diagram showing this in the KNVB thread on page 2 or 3.
Decentric
Decentric
Legend
Legend (23K reputation)Legend (23K reputation)Legend (23K reputation)Legend (23K reputation)Legend (23K reputation)Legend (23K reputation)Legend (23K reputation)Legend (23K reputation)Legend (23K reputation)Legend (23K reputation)Legend (23K reputation)

Group: Awaiting Activation
Posts: 22K, Visits: 0
mltezr wrote:
i am a player/coach of an all age men team.
for years we have used a 442 with a sweeper
but for a trial match i am interested in trying a 433, or more specifically a 4212 formation
however i do have some questions:


1. can you use a sweeper in a 433 formation?


http://au.fourfourtwo.com/forums/default.aspx?g=posts&t=53038

Have a look at this thread. It describes most of the variations in the 1-4-3-3 in diagrammatic form. How one can use it in defence and how one can use it in attack with variations.

There is a fair few diagrams towards the end of page 1 and on page 2. Ignore a few deliberate trolls.

Yes, you can play a sweeper in a 1-4-3-3 system by using the 3:1 defensive line. It can also be called the 1-3-4-3.

The 1-3-4-3 usually assumes a diamond shaped midfield, but I saw a club using 1-3-4-3 with a flat midfield recently.

I know Aussiesrus disagrees, and I respect his opinion having played at a very high level, but by using the triangles in midfield the 1-4-3-3 is good for controlling the game in midfield.


If you decide to use a sweeper, use the full backs and the other CB to mark players and use the sweeper to distribute when you can.

Effective full pressing and half pressing can negate the lack of skill in some of your experienced players, making it difficult for the position when in possession.

Have each line coach the line in front of them to stay in shape. The Keeper does the back four, at least one of the back four organises the midfield and so on.

Hope this helps.:)






Edited by Decentric: 15/3/2012 08:31:24 AM
mltezr
mltezr
Pro
Pro (2.9K reputation)Pro (2.9K reputation)Pro (2.9K reputation)Pro (2.9K reputation)Pro (2.9K reputation)Pro (2.9K reputation)Pro (2.9K reputation)Pro (2.9K reputation)Pro (2.9K reputation)Pro (2.9K reputation)Pro (2.9K reputation)

Group: Forum Members
Posts: 2.9K, Visits: 0
cheers for that

Edited by mltezr: 14/3/2012 08:51:32 PM
krisskrash
krisskrash
Hacker
Hacker (490 reputation)Hacker (490 reputation)Hacker (490 reputation)Hacker (490 reputation)Hacker (490 reputation)Hacker (490 reputation)Hacker (490 reputation)Hacker (490 reputation)Hacker (490 reputation)Hacker (490 reputation)Hacker (490 reputation)

Group: Forum Members
Posts: 465, Visits: 0
for years we have used a 442 with a sweeper
but for a trial match i am interested in trying a 433, or more specifically a 4212 formation
however i do have some questions:
1. can you use a sweeper in a 433 formation?

Your back four would be similar to what you are using now. Right Back- Sweeper - Stopper- Left Back. Sweeper would hang around 10 or so yards behind the stopper clearing loose balls, looking to be an option for the GK to play out to etc.

2. our right back player has never played football before, thus is not confident on the ball, has a bad first touch and panics while in control of the ball. however he is consistant in trying and is clearly improving in tackling the opponent. also our left back has a poor touch and also panics with the ball but is quite a good defender in terms of tackling and jockying. would a 433 formation isolate these two and show their flaws more than the 442 formation?


Give them confidence on the ball, praise them when they do well, and if they do well, give them constructive criticism. Get the more experienced guys in the team to do the same thing. In time their confidence and skill will grow. This can be specifically worked at in training by doing drills focused on playing the ball out from the back.

If your full backs are not confident on the ball at this stage or skilled. Get your defensive midfielders to always come to them to provide the short pass option, or get them to look to clear the ball.

If your wingers are tracking back this formation is almost like a 4-5-1 in defence and will not expose their flaws anymore than a 442
GO


Select a Forum....























Inside Sport


Search