Your opinion counts for nought around here...right or wrong ...people dont respect you here so either your posts are worth as much as a grain of salt

it doesnt need amending. defamation is defamation.

Do you ever think outside of the little bubble you live in.

I've asked a fair question.

Women get paid more for some "traditional" women's careers in some countries than they do here in Australia.

All I am saying is that it can't just be economics and economics only otherwise whatever is true here in Australia would be true overseas.

How about you apply a bit of Occam's razor yourself. Given economics is economics is economics how does this does that fit your narrative?

There must be other factors in play. It could be cultural, it could be that the work is not valued, it could be something else.

It's easy to scream SUPPLY AND DEMAND but that doesn't explain away why some other cultures pay women more than they do here for certain types of work.

And by the way an astrophyiscs degree is harder to get than a law degree but that's not reflected in the pay scales of the relative careers.



Edited by MUNRUBENMUZ: 15/5/2015 09:32:14 PM

i wouldnt be suggesting new laws...only for the existing defamation act to be amended to include this.

we have enough laws already
too many and some new ones that infringe upon our rights

we dont need any more

we already have defamation

i never said its not ok to take pics...as long as you dont stick allegations with it...leave it for the witness box in case the police deems the picture worthy of a crime.

laws to not take pics in public? no way

the police cant be the only ones with license to record history

She could be suffering from from severe anxiety or some sort of psycosis.

Society has to be careful about just posting images that misrepresent...regardless of gendet.

wrong accusations based on hearsay and pictures can destroy an innocent persons life to the extent that might not be able to ever get jobs as a result of s hate campaign....even if they were found to be innocent

its like putting a picture of someone who might look evil and saying that they did a crime.
there must be sterner laws which make people less triggerhappy of taking pictures that assume something has happened without any solid evidence

in fact anything that shows evidence should be submitted discreetly to police...because its no different why police shut down a crimr scene,..so evidence can be used to build a case and let them decide if charges are to be laid

its no different to spreading false rumours about someone in order to destroy their reputation

Edited by Socawho: 15/5/2015 07:10:21 PM

beware of white men everywhere!

we've got some legislation to sell you

Do you ever read the shit you write before you post it?

Are you seriously so deluded that you think there is some massive conspiracy to underpay women in careers they choose to go into?

Cut yourself with Occam's razor, and you'd see all your posturing about "societal values" and "attitudes towards women" is a load of shit. It's supply and demand. Any dumbfuck from the streets can be a nurse or a primary school teacher, so there is a gluttony of supply hence lower wages. Being an engineer or doctor etc takes lots of hard work and study, so there's only a small supply of these - hence their wages are higher.

Is that too hard to understand? Or am I just being a sexist by saying that engineering is harder than primary school teaching?

In what may be related to the OP it was interesting to see a story doing the rounds yesterday about a Melbourne woman claiming she was chased home from her tram stop by a man. Police scheduled a press conference for her to make a public announcement only to release the following statement shortly after:



The woman's story was that she tried a few evasive techniques like crossing the road, shortening and quickening pace etc to determine she was being followed, she also says he chased her all the way up her driveway. I get that she may have panicked and jumped to conclusions but not when she claims to have been actively pursued all the way up her driveway, just like the woman in the OP not just mistaking the mans actions as taking photo's of her kids, she claimed he boasted about it.

no need to resort to bullying

Youre copping it from all angles and you think im the village idiot. lol

the only people I see disparaging women's work are social justice warriors

And you're the 442 village idiot.

What happened to playing the ball?

I understand the arguments are complex and sometimes you have to think outside your box but it can be done.

i think mumbruz is actually a 442 staffer paid to wind all of us up

Dis thread lulz



-PB

I usually try and ignore you because you add nothing but I never said it was sexist. I asked some questions about the status quo.

If other countries pay traditional "women's" careers more than they do here it has to be more than economics.

It has to be because economics transcends borders. If it's not economics then its either perceptions and/or cultural differences or something else.

"Economics" by itself doesn't explain away the differences.

I hear you but I still believe there's an artificial, historical, ceiling for want of a better word based on the perception that "women's work" is not as valuable as a man's.

Just the way "women's work" is used disparagingly in normal conversations.

Things are much better now than they used to be that's for sure.

Progress is constantly being made.


Edited by MUNRUBENMUZ: 15/5/2015 04:30:34 PM

Says the bloke who thinks basic supply and demand economics is sexist.

Apparently, because I don't subscribe to your viewpoint, I am a 14 year old lesbian named Robin.

Run along fool and let the big people have a discussion.

There are plenty of male dominated, blue collar jobs that aren't particularly well paid. Mechanics, warehouse staff, truck drivers etc. Would these roles then not be over valued since they are usually preformed by men?

No the circumstances are the building/DIY industry generates more income than the child care industry. Therefore they can pay their employees better. Are football players more valuable than teachers or police officers or doctors? How much they get paid isn't a reflection of the contribution to society, even if it probably should be.

"The circumstances" appear that the Bunnings employee is more valuable than a child care worker.

Not at all.

I'm wondering why the work isn't valued more.

A teacher is paid heaps more in Singapore than Australia. Why? Because they're valued more.

Economically there doesn't seem to be a barrier to higher pay rates in Singapore. Yet suggest the same thing in Australia and we're told exactly that.

My question is more general than specific.

Are women paid less in female dominated positions because men think their work is not as worthy as work in a male dominated field?

After all it was only a few decades ago that women had to resign from their jobs once they were married.

Are low pay rates for women in woman dominated fields a hangover from the perception that women's work is not as important as men's?

Actually, it's exactly that. If it wasn't, then you wouldn't need to ask the questions you just have. I'm not advocating a Bunnings employee is more valuable to society than a child care worker, but how else do these circumstances appear?
If tomorrow the govt mandated all child care workers earned 100k per year, then fees would go through the roof and families would pull their kids from child care. Fees can only be as high as the market will bear, and the centres need to be able to pay their employees from that. The better question might be how much are parents really prepared to pay for someone to look after their kids. If child care ate up all your take home pay, their wouldn't be any point.
Are you suggesting there is some sore of mandate to ensure child care workers are paid less? Would a man working in child care earn more than a woman doing to same job?

Is that right?

A child care worker gets paid less than a Bunnings employee.

What's the more important role?

Who set those wage structures up?

Who doesn't value child care workers? Men or women?

If child care workers don't get paid more why is that? Are they not valued? Do people not want to pay those workers higher wages? If not, why not?

There's more to it than saying its just "supply and demand" or "economics".

whole thing is a media sensation like most topics that are brought up in this forum section

The myth is that there can ever be 100% gender equality. Genetically, men and women are different, have different strengths and weaknesses and can aspire to different goals. That doesn't mean equal pay for equal work shouldn't exist, of course it should, but how many women want to be miners or truck drivers? How many guys want to be nurses or kindergarten teachers? It's jut natural that some fields would be dominated by gender or the other. It's economics that decides how much people in those industries get paid, not some glass ceiling instituted by dominant males to keep women in line. Men are much more likely to work longer hours in more difficult or dangerous roles.
As an aside, my misses was once told she wouldn't be considered for a management position, cause, you know, she might go off and have babies or something. Scandalous right? Only the boss who told her that was also a woman.

The idea that men aren't objectified by women is ridiculous, as has been pointed out already in the thread. Any of those daytime talk shows that parade the latest Hollywood heartthrob in front of a hooting and whistling all female audience will tell you that.

Scoll, what do you think of Waleed Aly?

its non sequitur, logical fallacy time I see