Brilliant post, Grazor.

Thanks for  the detail, mate.

Its not just a problem in the subcontintent he also struggles to dominate on 5th day wickets while doing well in unfavorable conditions.

Optimal bowling speed is a very important factor as you allude. Also is his skillset. I don't know as much about finger spinners as wrist spinners but the finger spinners in the subcontinent remind me of warne in the sense that they have have 5 variations for their turn

1. the big turner - warne would always hold a little back from his stock delivery so he could have a surprise ball
2. the stock delivery - this you wanted at least enough spin so that if it landed on leg/middle it would move towards off (i.e. do more than straighten) if you are a leggie facing a RH batsmen or an offie facing a LHer. Stuart macgill could get real fizz on the ball when pitching on off but struggled to get the ball to turn pitching on middle or leg. Its a lot more challenging facing a ball that goes across your stumps
3. the slider - a ball that looked like a stock delivery out of the hand but turned less
4. the straight one - either a toppie or a flipper for a leggie or an arm ball for an offie.
5. the wrongun/doosra

Having those 5 options as well as varying the point of release and the speed made it impossible to settle against warne and the better finger spinners in the subcontinent. You are never really in against them.

Hopefully someone can advise lyon. Even if we need to recruit a foreign offspin coach

It does seem to be the case.

Why?

Former Sri Lankan player , Russell Arnold, and former Aussie Test player, Brendan Julian, think that Lyon is often too quick through the air in the subcontinent for the big spinning ball. Given he has 200 Test wickets, one would expect him Lyon to be more successful in Sri Lanka, India , Pakistan and Bangladesh.

In circa 2005 -2006, when I didn't have pay TV, Warne, and I think MacGill, took heaps of wickets in the Sri Lankan series. Warne often bowled around 80kph, while MacGill 's speed was often 75kph. Lyon seems closer to 90 kph, but he has been effective in different conditions which seem harder.

Moreover, Julian thinks that Australia  needs more domestic spin friendly wickets. Importantly, he emphasised that Australian players  needs to become more competent in spin friendly conditions in matches when the pressure is on. 

What did they play before that?

I look forward to this summer when Australia smashes the visiting teams

And it's finally done.

Far out.

-PB

This was the third shortest test in the last 100 years. Debacle! 

Obviously our performance is poor but I was wondering how poor? In other words what is a realistic goal given the talents of the current generation and the fact that we play a bowling all rounder
I was curious about how much the home advantage affected some of our better players of spin

Mark waugh averaged 9 in 10 innings
Ponting 48 in 16 innings
slats 45 in 4 innings
Hayden got 40 in 8 innings
clarke got 42 in 5 innings
steve waugh got 16 in 5 innings
gilly got 45 in 8 innings

so while aggressive players seem to fare better in general you lose an average of around 10 points playing there. It is tough. 

So in leiu of that I think a realistic goal for this current australian team is 500 runs per test in spin or swing friendly conditions.

Not great but we can win some away games and be competitive with that. We will improve with experience but are unlikely to dominate like in past generations. A few of our batsmen still are quite green

The generation immediately before this (before smith, warner got settled and burns and khawaja weren't playing) probably were worse than this.

The big question I have though is why are sheild averages so poor the last decade or so?

Pitches or unfamiliarity of conditions can't be blamed there.
Any underage coaches care to comment?

I think it looks like if we do well from here our match score will be 300 which is very low.
In normal conditions you aim for 600 runs across the two innings. We might get less than half of that

one thing i'd like to do more is to have more variation in his turn
sub continent spinners have the big turner, the stock delivery, the one that turns slightly less (like warnes slider), the straight one and the wrongun.
If you just have a stock and a straight ball its like having a pace bowler who bowls 140+ having a slower ball at 100. Having more options allows for more subtlety and lets you take advantage of dominant conditions

What a shamozzle.

Embarrassing.

-PB

I love how when Windies and NZ were getting smashed everyone thought Australia where world beaters and the best. But some question marks need to be appearing over Burns and Mitch Marsh. Then go to consider if its really worth persisting with Voges. Other than that a third seamer coming in for Holland makes the bowling look far better. 

sux for smith
reviews should only be used to overturn howlers

Neither are we though :D

I like this
if you are in a hole like this you may as well just go out and enjoy yourself

you may not win this match but its important in difficult conditions to continue to enjoy your cricket or you can get stuck in a rut mentally

 South Africa isn't as great as they once were. 

Can you imagine the brutality if we were playing SA in SA? We would get absolutely dismantled. Though the subcontinental pitches are a big factor with this seemingly terrible result I suppose.

Looking at this team this could be a summer we even struggle at home. Pakistan have a strong bowling attack and South Africa won't fear coming here at all. Our top 7 needs a major overhaul.

Recently there have been a few, but I think without a doubt the best player to come out of there is Ole Mortensen. Played first class in England for over a decade and even played over in Aus. As for more recently, Amjad Khan has played for England but is actually Danish. He played for Denmark before England.

Any good scandis?

Some decent players! Most from subcontinental background obviously.

Let's start up a Scandi cricket team. I'm not Scandi (and I'm a lousy cricketer) but maybe they'll have me :)

Joke of a country. I'm out again.

Mate hang in Australia will be playing at home soon so we can go back to thinking theyre the best country in the world.

10/3

Joke of a country. I'm out.

Burns being horribly found out every innings this series. 

again lost a wicket just before stumps this time through a poor shot

Anyway we need to forget about the score and just enjoy our cricket as its difficult to win from here. Sometimes when you just aim to enjoy yourself you perform in a pressure situation

Sri Lanka bowled out for 237. Lead of 412. Starc finishes with 11 for the match. 

Lead over 400 now

Nathan Lyon (To Dilruwan Perera) - "Youre only test cricket because youre a cu*t"

This is in response to Perera slogging Lyon against the wind 

Games over then. Sucks to read these blind.