One of the issues that arises is that the mods often say they are constantly in a lose/lose scenario. If they come down harder on aberrant behaviour, they are criticised. If they are more lenient they are criticised.  Mods lose either way, which is undesirable. 

It has come to my attention from communication with a mod, that there are many lurkers on 442 who are too intimidated to post. This is bad. 

This forum definitely needs new blood.  We have lost 20-40 odd  good posters who used to constructively discuss football since changing to Inside Sport - Thupercoach, Ton Of Bricks, Canehdrian, Eastern Glory, U4442282, Neanderthal, Cool Cat, Aussiesrus, etc, etc, appear to have left. They haven't been adequately  replaced in terms of quantity of quality.  

A few years back when there was a direct access from 442 articles, there was a peak. There was a constant influx of new members. Some ongoing animosities were minimised by posters encountering each other less often. The new blood often provides new perspectives - hence greater diversity in discussion.

I for one would support mods being harsher on behaviour deemed as bullying new members. An influx  of new posters, maybe more sensitive ones, would create  a bigger, better forum. I suppose with the advent  of the mute system it could minimise trollers' and bullies' influence for more sensitive members. 

  In the weighting of argument by creating greater freedom of speech, as opposed to excessive intervention for aberrant behaviour, I'd suggest the latter course of action by mods in order to grow the forum.

The axiom of the forum in the rules is respond to the idea, not attack the person. In football parlance, play the ball not the man, if you will.

It must be a tough job moderating, but I'd prefer to see a heavier handed approach to induce new thinner - skinned/sensitive members' participation on the forum.

Thoughts? 

Excessive use of the mute system would surely destroy any ongoing dialogue on the forum.

Every forum has people who lurk for a while before posting. Surely it's not up to mods to create a safe space so that favoured candidates can join the forum. I don't think any of the stuff that goes on here is excessively scary- apart from decentric's use of multis.

As for that list of posters who were supposed to be good  and have now departed...Aussiesrus wasn't even a "real" poster- he was only on the forum to promote something.

Only mute those you don't want to have dialogue with,

1. saves getting tempted by their twattishness, and
2. cuts down the number of rude responses newbies end up trawling through

It improved my experience no end.

Not sure what muting has to do with encouraging the growth of 442, but I agree with you totally about enjoying the forum through having the mute mechanism.

Of the umpteen thousand posters on 442, I only have 5 on the mute system. One has to the pretty obnoxious to get into my mute group. At any given time there would only be 3 of these 5 who are active as at least 2 would be banned.

I'd surmise that by us muting a few obnoxious posters, we'd lessen the acrimonious exchanges, which would hopefully encourage more timid prospective members to join.  Also, those obnoxious posters who are muted by a number of the forum, will surely tire of few, or even no responses, to their posts as people can't see them.

I think most reading this would agree we need more posters and new blood, not trolls, on the forum.

Agreed, it has all gone downhill since I became mod :lol:

Also, I contribute a lot of the forum issues to the lack of :lol: working

Definitely. :lol:

Mods need to provide chaperoning to new members. :lol:

So the likes of decentric are going to decide who is "obnoxious", and then recommend that others mute them as well??

Yeah, that's pretty democratic isn't it?

I agree with pv4, they should bring back the emoticons like lol and wink etc. Without them, some people can't detect irony or jesting.

Shame with only PV4, Told Ya So Timmy and I voicing opinions, we can't give a clear indication to the mods of whether they should be more rigorous or not with protecting newer, more timid posters if they join 442. 

Come on, give us your view.

Do some think we don't need the forum to grow at all? 

Other opinions have been given, but decentric is too up himself to read them (lol)

A few people on here are obnoxious, but none so bad that I'd want to use the mute button. I don't think it is up to people like decentric, or the mods, to call for extensive mutings.

He reads them.  Don't worry about that.  

Can't you see he is deliberately trolling you, myself and others.  He's read every post.  

He's trolling.

Ironic wouldn't you say?

Yes, I'm fully aware of that.

The only protected species in here is seemingly decentric..

Not sure why the ppl with the keys to this place tolerate and encourage the lunatic - I can only assume the mods enjoy his arselicking PM's. And, I would dare any moderator here to tell me they haven't received one such PM from decentric LOL.

In short, he remains your biggest obstacle to growth and engaging a wider and more educated football audience.

I suppose multis could exploit a rule but if a poster has fewer than 200 posts perhaps a mod can give a warning to anyone who is a jerk to them

Sounds like a reasonable idea.

If any mods are reading this, can this be implemented? 

The posters you raised have been replaced by posters who are obsessed with being anti-ffa

personally I'm not for or against the ffa. Couldn't care less about them one way or another*. But it does make the forum seem monotonous and dull

*Of course if the ffa block a plausible proposal for a 2nd division my opinion might sour. Ironically that could be the best thing to happen to the forum :D

Hadn't considered this, but it makes sense.

My advice to everyone is if you have an issue with a user, take it to PM with them. 

If the PMs can't resolve your issue, mute them.

If the PMs become attack-based or violate rules etc, please report them via PM to a mod.

Please do not publicly post the content of a PM without getting the green light by the person PM-ing you. PMs are PRIVATE messages that don't belong in the public eye. Again, see the line above if things go to shit in your PMs. 

You all have Inala B to thank for his down to earth, common sense thoughts because I have learnt from this and have decided I am going to reopen the Multi Speculation thread. But if it goes to shit again, it's getting not only closed but deleted. That is your full-disclosure warning. 

I like to think I personally, and the mods, don't iron-hammer things too often and without decent enough reason. I am happy to learn and improve always though. 

Remember as always - any issues, please PM me or any other mod. Cheers.

I can't remember the user who asked, sorry.

I deleted the public showing of a PM. I think I've done it twice now.

My quoted text is why I did it.

Solve your issues with a user via PM. If that doesn't work, mute them. If PMs get out of hand, privately give evidence to a mod and we will hopefully deal with them. We are all big kids here, we can sort out our issues or at the very least get to a point where we agree to disagree.

I have no doubt who the perpetrator of this action is.

The likely perpetrator has a history of cutting and pasting PMs for attention seeking reasons in order to gain maximum traction in the objective of creating conflict.

If he had in any way been concerned he would've sent a PM to a mod privately.

You have been played for a  fool. Said poster usually boasts about 442 mod inefficacy elsewhere on the inter web. He has been banned from here before this by a mod for the same action. If the mod panel meets to discuss issues, then you surely would've been aware of this? Obviously not all mods are currently active which is an inherent  problem in the current functioning of the 442 forum.

I'm well aware of what's happening mate and I'm no fool. I don't need to hear any more about what's happened in the past or on other forums, everyone has been given a final warning. Nothing more needs to be discussed on the matter.

One issue with AF is having certain opinions just starts an absolute shitstorm. Examples:

- Supporting the Phoenix being in the league.
- Not supporting a 2nd division in the A-League

I tend to lurk on a lot of AF articles simply because I know that if I make a certain comment very specific users will make very consistent comments that kill any kind of discussion.

All they have to do, and I've said this many times, is delete the post and put in italics "Off topic, post removed".

Done.  1000% improvement across the forum within a few days.

There'd be no point shitposting because it would be deleted and blokes would get sick of wasting their time.  Instead threads get locked down or devolve into, as you said "shitstorms".  

Indeed.

I tire of the constant threads that just become public places to attack each other over opinions. God help you if you make a comment arguing against a 2nd division at the moment.

The discussion of actual football is less than what it was. I still follow the A-League even though I no longer have a team in the league and I like to discuss it.

1000 times better than muting everyone because they're only shitposting some of the time and you don't know when they've made a reasonable post or not if you can't see them.

Off topic, ad hominen attacks would disappear overnight. 

I agree, some people just disagree on certain topics and can be respectful on others.

I've argued against Div 2 in terms of timeline and have been astonished at the passion opposing this point of view.

Mind you, I've become pretty friendly with one poster who took such exception to my position.

I expect this is a recurring theme.  People turn away from personal attacks. Personal attacks are counterproductive.

On somewhere like Big Soccer there would've been a lot more mod intervention to prevent this occurring, but don't I think they  have an active Australian section and would not have the traffic that 442 does.

public warnings would be good as well.  just deleting the posts makes it hard to actually understand what happened and for other to recognise what is a bad thing to do.  quoting the offending post and saying - "if this shit continues you will have your post deleted and cop a ban for a couple days" would be good.  it gives a way to publicly set some standards which sends a message.

Good points raised.

Those two issues have almost been done to death. I think it is bad that specific users can inadvertently kill a thread. I'd like to be informed if I was guilty of doing this and contributing to killing a thread.

I'm quite concerned that this forum showing worrying signs of contracting to the point of no return. The points  you've raised reinforce that view, Beth FC. Some forum mates of mine are becoming bored with the topics.  I see this as evidence of too few posters posting,  resulting in too little generation of new threads and providing new perspectives.

I've seen three Aussie football forums die.

1. TWG 

The owners didn't care about it after a while and it really died a death. 


2. Gippo Sports

Two of us actively  tried to grow the forum, but most of the membership were indifferent. I recruited 20 odd posters. All but one left. It has very little football  specific traffic.


3. Anarchy Football

Started off with circa 1000 members. It must only have about 15 active members now.

I had a lot of discussion with one FA owner about rebooting the site with the potential of him making money. He thought it was a little  too hard and too big a job, but liked the thought of earning a revenue stream.



 I've been involved in a team running a football site before, and a mate runs a very successful site based on one state's football milieu. There is monetary opportunity.


The best thing about football forums is the immediacy, greater knowledge about other state football scenarios and networking. The biggest gap in my coaching knowledge was filled with one poster cutting and pasting some European powerhouse clubs' academy training ground exercises on 442. I've  disseminated them as widely as possible in my home state.

If  442 dies, there are no national football forums left. Big Soccer has too many sections and is not as Australia specific.

2. Gippo Sports


Gippo only has some two dozen or so active posters... some are currently in Iran to support the Socceroos.

I think the Nix are really unfairly pilloried on this forum.

I'm fed up with Nix bashing.

For those who've visited NZ its a pretty good country to visit. I have a strong feeling we make Nix fans feel unwelcome on 442. Why? 

Showing any kind of support for the Nix on this forum = comments of "create your own league" and "get out of our AFC league" etc. etc.

As I said before, there are a number of you that are carrying baggage from another forum and there's been a lot of shit flung from both sides. Because of that banning one member or another would be unfair. Let's draw a line in the sand. Any more harassment from any of you to anyone else will be dealt with swiftly.

I also do not understand why one person's choice to not read someone else's posts is such an affront to some. However, posting that you've muted someone is not clever and people can see that you're being passive aggressive. Cut it out.

BETHFC post sums up my take overall..
Been around for a while but I don't post much for there are too many smart arse's on here.
The place is a skeleton to what it once was, in some case's good, notorganic for eg was his own worst enemy to outsmart others and didn't handle getting back his own, people similar on political views at the same time - like gtfo both sides have good and bad points just as in the football topics, you can't be so one eyed suck it up. 
Those in the know belittle you on any subject and as mentioned the topic goes off track and into banter this banter that. Hey nothing like some fun but too many of you take things OTT and screw things right up. One up man ship - seriously you can't win everything.
HAL to PL to NSL, its all being football supporters but can't live together can we.
The FFA are the enemy and most of the Fox commentators know F all and it goes on and on and on.
An interesting subject just goes to shit.
So many keyboard experts but its going nowwhere lol.
The Multis are pathetic. Grow up.
Its all negative.

This is really bad you feel this way.

Basically, I try to find points of agreement, than disagreement. I'd like to think there are many on 442 willing to accept points of difference, agree to disagree and then move on.

Point taken. Many others hold this view. There is probably a consensus on this from what I've read. 

Agree with this.

Posts about "Phoenix shouldn't be in the A League" etc have just become silly and pointless.

There are still just enough people here to know what is going on to make it worthwhile, I suppose....

Good to see some favourable response's.
Decentric, I do find some of knowledge and views very interesting to read but I know if I object to parts of the Youth Curriculum you would only see it your way for eg.......for thats the stamp you have planted on your head from the powers above but just as any job/passion we follow the direction issued.. Leave that for another thread one day I'm just bringing up an example.
As a part timer around here I find the multis just painfully confusing to explain, by your comment about other football forums of the past falling apart and this goes for the other culprits re multis your all turning away possible regular members of the future. The place is such a mish mash of crap typical of school yard behavior I don't blame other lurkers looking and thinking bugger joining 442.
Its funny when I think about it and the FFA/HAL NO to promotion relegation currently and all the other subjects etcetc - this place is just as fecked up as the governing bodies/hidden agendas, so who's better than who.
NONE are.
If you wish this place to hang onto the last core its got right now there needs to be a huge change right now for it to grow for the cancer has been eroding many many members..

I'm just about to  start a big thread in Performance to see what  is occurring in other parts of Australia in different football milieus regarding coaching. There are a few, just a few, strange things that occur and I will highlight a few of these in this thread. Others will probably arise too. I've learnt a lot from other coaches, but maybe they haven't done some basic stuff they should've.

The worst thing about the  curriculum is I've been persuaded by evidence based research, from FIFA and UEFA Technical Departments at FFA and KNVB courses. Perplexingly, most of the trained coaches on this forum must have been asleep in those conferences. Through FFA we have embarked on a pathway that has no alternative if we want to be world powerhouse other than Italy.

Unless someone has a clear alternative pathway, I struggle to be persuaded - only on this issue.

One of the things about more input from more posters, is it effects  and refines my views over time. Sometimes I like viewing discussions where I have little background knowledge.  This occurs  in the cricket section or in those discussions where some know about football finances. Just like you've clarified what is probably a consensus on multis. Stuff I've done a year or so ago, simply as a piss take, may still have ramifications.

I'd also be interested for Kevin Airs to provide some input.

What are the 442 traffic numbers now, compared to years ago with actual number of visits over a month/week, KA? This is your site. Surely, you have a vested interest in traffic numbers.

When I was involved in a football website, we had between 100 and 600 per day according to Google Analytics. A mate of mine has a state based football site and he gets 2000 different individuals a day in the season.

I thought KA told me about five years ago 442 received 30 000 individual hits from unique accounts per week, or probably a month. How do the figures compare now, KA?

For gawd's sake mrjules, there's no need to sound so pompous and patronising...

So it's just a return to the status quo, then... nobody on the forum is allowed to criticise decentric's endless twaddle, even if it is done in an objective and constructive way.

I'll stop accusing him of having multis, but I'm not going to stop calling him out for talking nonsense.

It's only patronising because everything needs to be spelled out to you (plural form of you). It reminds me of how I have to explain things to my own children.

You are absolutely allowed to challenge his ideas, especially in an objective and constructive way. I'm trying to find where I or anyone else has said you can't but I'm coming up empty...

Strange... I was always under the impression that you were about 16 years old. But now you have pointed out what a mature adult you are obviously you'll get much more respect (!?)

If you had the slightest idea what goes on on  this forum, you would know that "challenging decentric's ideas" inevitably leads to abusive PMs from the said gentleman.

Mate, last time. If he sends you an abusive PM anytime from now, send me or another mod a screenshot and we'll deal with it.

McJules you and a few inexperienced mods are being played for  fools by some cynical trollers (namely one), who are chronologically older, with a degree of animal cunning and street smarts that exceed your admirable degree of cognitive acumen and supposed even-handedness. It manifests as naivety. 

I don't believe there is a nasty bone in your body, which is an admirable trait. However, there are those elsewhere on the interweb who will see your arguments vindicating your actions as a green light to troll 442.

There is a palpable animosity displaced towards 442 in one cesspit on the interweb, with me being a  target. Kevin Airs and Joffa are also despised by the same degenerates. These nefarious scum play by different rules, none, and will be soon be inundating this place and will be anointing you, McJules, as their new poster boy to manipulate.

If one looks at facts, I've posted 15 000  plus posts on this forum as Decentric, which have demonstrated a level of civility, as I attempt to do in face to face contact off forum.

To use two PMs, one where I called a couple  of cynical stalkers, 'obnoxious dickheads', which nobody could else could see needs more information to provide a prudent context. Moreover, to use a few posts by some tongue in cheek multis to use satire to parody a poster bullying  a kid,  to advance my claims as a troublemaker on 442 , is folly .  If one evaluates a 15 000 post history, my posting  record is the antithesis of trolling, cynicism and bullying.

In the case of aggressors, Iraq and Germany, invading  Kuwait and Poland, even handedness was a cop out, because some wanted to perpetrate  conflict when others didn't. This is the scenario here. McJules, you are capitulating to weak arguments put forcefully, trying to appease those who perpetrate conflict. In doing so you are being played for a fool.  

 I don't need to read the unmuted posts (you suggested I unmute them, McJules) because when one is stalked (which Kevin Airs told me is a bannable offence in itself circa 7 years ago) over years and years, one comes to recognise  a  posting style and the same recurring message in the same gobbledygook.

I'll happily take my leave and you can deal with the avalanche of nefarious new trollers, McJules, who you advance in this thread as having equal destabilisation qualities as me on 442.

Before I go I may raise a few points suggesting the mod panel actually define what behaviours/actions transgress forum protocols, establish forum rules and adhere to them - consistently. This occurs in any professional organisation.

 Some mods are not as loyal to each other as they should be.

And - don't appear to do much work, or even visit the forum. If mods worked together collegially, establishing a consensus of rules, they would become cohesive through the process of working together to produce a manifesto that is a shared, common goal.

 I've even seen mods bastardised on this forum, with no back up from other mods, apart from PV4.  This mod bastardisation has occurred because he has done same things that I,  and other posters do consistently, such as cutting and pasting articles. This  is grossly unfair.

 I've also seen mods bastardising one poster in one thread. Just because most of us disagree with him, he still has a right to express a different opinion.

 I've seen mods continuing polemics over time, with the same adversaries. These threads have never been locked if a mod is involved in a polemic, like they do to everybody else.

What is the current mod panel position on stalking? It used to be a bannable offence according to KA.

What is the current mod panel position on derailment of threads and ensuring threads stay on topic? One rule which was admirably espoused by Joffa for a while was, "Attack the idea, not the person". KA also espoused this mantra with," Play the ball not the man". This should be a mod axiom. Sadly, it seems to have dissipated. Is there a current mod panel position on this?  

The mod panel, needs to establish some common rules  and adhere to them. The mods who are getting jaded should quit, like Erebus has. They should leave the job for newcomers, preferably with a history of football forums over the past 10 - 12 years, not appoint naive cybergeeks.

In this case some trollers have played you for a fool, McJules, and successfully derailed a thread. You've inadvertently nurtured the derailment. The analogy I use, is sadly, you've been a student teacher in the playground, dealing with issues that should  have been dealt with by senior staff.

Kevin Airs where are you? You used to show a bit of leadership in the past and post on the forum, even getting HAL players to appear to converse with 442 posters which was good. Where are all the journos like Aidan Ormond, and most recently Ben Somerford who used to participate on the forum? Where are the articles written by 442 posters?

Some of the points raised raised in this post, may well be contributing factors for diffident posters failing to participate  on this forum.

This forum is in the inexorable downward spiral, with ever decreasing traffic. There should be an attempt to induce those diffident  lurkers to post, particularly if they are too intimidated. This thread to date has exemplified the mod panel's ineptitude to resolve conflict by some deliberate troublemakers.

This thread has raised issues like the bastardisation  of City, Nix and CCM fans,  the hegemony of Victory fans, the increasing cynicism and negativity of posters,  the loss of some good guys. Unfortunately, I don't think there is the will from KA and staff to change anything. This usually equates to the owners losing interest, or/and are not making the income they hoped they would.

So basically drivel masquerading as "fact". 99% of the above is conjecture, opinion, outright lies and falsehoods.

The only fact I can see is the the note about having 15000 posts. 10 000 of which are in the last 3 years or so. Basically 10 posts a day cluttering up the forum proselytizing the latest 'milieu'. (But whatever, it's not a crime to be prolific, only annoying.)

Now remember he can't read this post McJules but having said that one should be able to defend one's self in the court of public opinion. How about you move on Decentric?

McJules has told you more than once.

Oh, one more thing, this is not your forum. 

Member since 2008.

What he said. I used  to respect d's opinion , now im shit scared of him.  Got  one abusive  pm from him and i was done. What will it take for mods to ban him? A 11.MVFC.11 style rant to k.a ?? Ffs everyone knows he is abusive but yet some mods would rather  have their heads in the  sand

I've just unmuted you, having seen nothing you've posted for some time.

I'm making every effort to engage as constructively as possible with you from now on and putting the past behind.

Bless.


- edited by pv4

You have sent your concerns via PM to mcjules, as far as I'm aware. That is the way this should be dealt with, and if it deserves punishment from the mods it will happen. 

Please move along from it in the meantime, cheers.

Good responses from mcjules to decentric's long, self-justifying manifesto.

Just well reasoned football comments from me for now on.

This reply and replies like it are part of the problem. Stop winding him up. FFS.

It's OK... he can't read them!

If you mute someone, you lose.

I'm probably gonna be taken away by the Illuminati for this but I'm gonna go out and say it: All the mods are a multi of JoFFA.

There seems to have been a pleasing number of new members joining the forum in the last week or so.

How about  regular posters other than me welcoming them to the forum?

They seem to have a few new perspectives, which is good.

... Because most regular posters are afraid of looking stupid by welcoming a multi to the forum.

I've seen a few posts by you that indicate you are the original poster, not a multi.  I've visited without logging in and you've posted some good stuff. I've reinstated you to active.

I'm saying nice things about your interesting posts about Chinese football. I'm moving forwards and forgetting the past, Localstar.

I'm going to continue to welcome posters at the risk of them being multis. There seem to be a number of new posters who seem to be posting earnestly about football rather than trolling and trying to cause conflict, which is a good thing.

From what I understand the mentally & socially undesirable in the past in Australia were isolated from the community in incarceration in order that the rest of us didn't have to engage with them in any way. 

The policy of attempted integration of the mentally interesting into society means that attempting to engage in any positive way with these people results in interactions of the like which appear on these page. 

Bump.  Just a reminder.

2 years ago soliciting for a mod position.

ok, you've done some work last night over 3-4 threads leaving comments.
What are you looking to achieve at the end of this all for the good of the forum ?

A realisation that one of the most poisonous forumers has just been appointed a mod.