Why does football (the world’s most popular sport) fail to measure up in Australia. Is it because of poor administration or is it simply the fact that we only like winners. We have won the Cricket World Cup, the Rugby World Cup, even the Netball World Cup. Does Australia’s insularity condemn football to always be inferior. Maybe we have to win the Football World Cup before we can be considered a legitimate contender.

Australian Rules and Thugby to blame... 

Professional Football is widely popular in Australia, the A-League however is not and having a league that is structured wildly different from the leagues people are actually watching doesn't help.

But the A-League is Professional Football in this country, everything else is either semi-professional or amateur.
Football doesn’t seem to be able to gain traction at any level, be it government level, media level, it just isn’t part of the national psyche.
I just don’t understand why a sport as widely popular as football fails to register as worthy at a national level.

+1000

this.

You can't keep starting up new leagues and hope that a professional game will miraculously take off.
The A-League is currently just one heart beat away from where the NSL was 16 years ago (but luckily for the A-League, the PM hasn't roped in the richest man in Australia to finish it off).
Personally, I don't think it's got anything to do with good or bad administration or who is in charge.  We finally have a football person in charge, very experienced too mind you, but he is not going to make a dot of difference to the professional game in Australia.
We have the hand we have been dealt, and that's all you get.

Its simple while more people play our great game in this country then any other sport people get bored. HAL started with a bang but 15 years later its the same shit. Unless we have something to get excited about something to fear something for the players to play for fan will keep dropping off. Bring in PR asap and watch the game change in all aspects. 

i havev said it before &i will say it it  again,our muchLoved game NEEDS  a Secand division A N D promoting &relagation NOW the question is why are TheFFA not doing anything  about it? 

Unlike the AFL and NRL, the A-League is no where near a top product of their respective sports.

The vast majority of football fans in this country prefer to follow an EPL, Serie A or a La Liga team as that’s where the top players are. Many countries face the same issues, but luckily for them, football is still seen as the top sport in many of those countries. 

What you smoking it is incredibly  popular - the Socceroos when they were good where the number 1 sporting brand in the country by a mile 

the problem is the AL is unpopular becuz like ive said on other forums it is a terribly structured competition and the 1st 4-5 years the AL was sub-par 

If anything the PL, World cup, Euros, Champions league are all incredibility popular people wake up at 3am to watch matches but dont want to watch SFC v WSW at 7:30pm on Saturday becuz the competition is f**ken a mile off what a football competition is meant to be 

The ALeague is a story of 2 missed opportunities. 
The first 2 seasons of the A-league combined with the 2006 WC success was the first squandered opportunity. Instead of building on this success immediately, the decision was made to do nothing to expand the game. Bugger all investment in the following seasons and the game went nowhere.
The next big opportunity was the season when Wanderers joined and we had Ono, ADP and Heskey in the league. Genuine football fans were again enthused, but the FFA decided to go to war with the active fans because they thought that attracting Big Bash and AFL followers was more important.

Also this +1. 

Hammer + nail.

Bang on the money mate.

I recall the time where active support was awesome across the league. That was at the time that the Marinators had already broken up but good performances and championships kept them coming. I recall Mariners games of 2008-2012 just being unimaginable now. 

Sydney derby was top. Melbourne had a very decent derby. Newcastle had travelling fans and Brisbane were playing beautifully. Such a disappointment it all crashed down. 

astute observations and I 100% agree with what you say ... I would add a third to your list the gamble to go after the world cup and direct revenue and management time and political and media favours while ignoring the A-L... 

Having said that and I agree I think its deeper than just a couple of things..

Exactly cannot agree more.
Football has too many people with agendas & not always for the good of the game.
The misconception that football is NOT big in this country, we should have been appealing to football fans, the passion the football fans have was totally missed by the Suits.

As I mentioned in the other thread yesterday the game has been too fractured for too long, someone has got beef over something or someone in the game and often than not the game gets nowhere.

Hate ethnic clubs or hate plastic franchises, its the same poor attitude.

Sport especially in our game is all about emotional connection, the league had two chances to get it right.

The 1st was the inception 1 team per city model 'build it and hope they come as Lowy mentioned at the start',but was ruined by the World Cup bid and lack of planning for the growth of the league after that.
The 2nd was the wave with ADP, WSW inception the league finally had real colour especially in the peak around 2014/2015.

Both moments blown as the game took its eye off the ball and the game hasnt recovered since.

Emotion connection is not being force fed into something you should like, or where they want take advantage of you for marketing purposes like those active supports but to also turn their back on them, emotional connection is something you feel about that product or experience where you will spend more time and money it as its part of your life and thats what sport is all about.

Another word is Passion, remember the 'passion is not a crime' line?

And this is something the game has never embraced whether its been in the NSL or aleague club, the suits have never embraced the passion with it means to support a team like in our sport just so they appease the small element of people that dont understand our game. (Cheers David Gallop!)

Professional football is popular in Australia.

We’ve just made some poor assumptions and decisions over the last 50 years.

Over the last 15 years we thought a professional league based on Australian sporting culture would do it.
In fact we promised the owners riches beyond compare, setting a policy course that doesn’t meet our expectations nor the expectations of those who invested in the League.

We thought marquees would be a game changer.

We thought if only there was less or no ethnic clubs then the Australian masses would see less of an impediment to crossing over to the beautiful game.

They thought getting rid of  active support, seen as rowdy and symbolic of the ethnic Football days as the way to attract the threatre goer.

We thought World Cup qualification would be the game changer and everyone would just hop over to the true football.

We think winning a World Cup will do the trick without any thought or consideration in what is needed to achieve that.

The owners brought over Scudamore to tell them how to make the game more popular, but didn’t like what they were told.

The journey to what we want for the game here is a long one. And we’ve lost a lot of time, sidetracked by distractions of grandeur.

We have to be more Club focused, Clubs are the engine of the game the World over, they are the marquee. Great players have come and gone through Real Madrid, but people support Real Madrid not the galaxy of stars that have passed through.

To win a World Cup our players need to be playing and dominating in the top 5 leagues of Europe. With the top 5 clubs in those leagues.

To get those players to those clubs and leagues we have to have a vibrant and competitive league here, that includes transfer fees, promotion Relegation, a connected pyramid, diverse and innovative player development especially at the youngest ages (I’m talking ages 4 to 12), parental education on how they can best help the kids get the skills they need just to enjoy the game. We have to come to the realization that not every kid is elite, but if they stay in the game taught to love it they will be the next administrator or sponser or coach etc.
we have to stop saying, AL you are the professional clubs, NPL you are the development clubs, Community you are for the masses. Telling Clubs this is your territory, and the people in this territory belong to you. Clubs siloed into a specific roles is like creating an East German sports model without the drugs. Even those  clamoring for age restrictions on clubs In competition don’t get it, just playing youth in the AL NPL or wherever isn’t the game changer people think if the kids aren’t good enough they’re not good enough.

And we can’t have arbitrary player payments regulations, Licensing conditions etc etc that don’t reflect the financial capacity and level of the game. We have to have more of an organic approach and that takes time. Like the Japanese who have a 100 year plan.

So my point we need to accept we are in the long game, there is no silver bullet, there is not one thing we can do that will change our circumstances, but there are many small things we can do and build on. In particular we need to equal regulations for all Clubs within a free market framework.
Could write a lot more on this but I think I’ve put my view across.

Very well said Arthur, that makes too much sense for the non believers. 

I agree 

thought no one thought marquees where going to save the league - 90% of the marquees where crap - other then Fowler/York/ADP non of the other 'marquees' were really marquees

“I played for the biggest club [in the Netherlands], so you think clubs will see you easily. But my career went half good and half/half…

“People say New Zealand, Australia are not so good. But to be fair, it made me into the player I am today.

“In Holland, you learn to play with the ball and you have it a lot.

“But in Australia, you need to fight and become a man. My skills are there, but in Holland you lack the fighting part of the game.

“It helped me quite a lot.”

https://sport360.com/article/football/arabian-gulf-league/344707/if-you-saw-luis-suarez-in-training-he-wouldnt-do-a-lot-but-in-a-game-he-went-2000-per-cent

too macho for the refined Eurosnobs?

I love how people are turning this thread in to an “A-League is not popular” thread. 

To answer that question it would require undertaking some actual analysis and critical thinking. And we all know there can't be any of that nonsense. We can't turn the microscope on ourselves. We can only look at external issues of which we have no control over.

one word... Eurosnobs. 

Also know as real football fans who have common sense and like the sport. 

piss off

Constructive observations, especially from clockwork orange. I agree, no silver bullet sadly. It’s a slow road back. Let’s get to 14 or maybe 16 teams quickly then put a five year plan in place for a second division pro/rel.  Aim for this to all be in place by 2030, with public commitments and milestones. I really want some old surviving NSL clubs back in the mix. What a club like South Melbourne would do, notwithstanding the counter arguments, would be awesome and very symbolic. A brilliant gesture to the old guard but also there are commercial opportunities to be exploited.  

South Melbourne has had three bites at it (entering the A-League), and at least for the 2nd and 3rd tries, missed out to inferior bids.
Damage done I'd say.

the fact that spots in the top league are decided based on how glossy your bid is versus being earnt through on field performance says it all. In setting up the Al, a honeymoon with no p/r is understandable, but the overarching strategy of protecting the owners investment has basically killed the league for me. there is no ambition amongst many of the clubs and with no consequences there is no incentive to actually try.

Reddy juggling the ball un-challenged before half time last season sums up situation with AL perfectly, it is a meaningless competition and when the players themselves dont take it seriously, why would anyone expect the football public to.

Because its progress and development has constantly being restrained by self-serving, chip on the shoulder, utter fuckwits on every side of the fence. 

The irony of multiculturalism and diversity being seen as a positive in every aspect of Australian life except mens football is not lost on me.  In most other cultural and social areas ‘the ethnics’ are celebrated but in football we have actively shunned them. Bizarre and backward thinking. And out of step with modern Australia. But it’s not irretrievable.

But we happy to taste the food though! 

Funny country.

Well exactly, because the foreign food beats the potatoes and steak I was raised on, easily. But so does football influenced by Greeks, Italians, Croatians, Serbs and Germans. Oh well, we are a bloody weird mob. 

they spent more time and money on Cahill than promoting the league.

Kids need stars/idols to get behind... we have none.

Because the A League is a minor league in this country. Our best seasons with eyeballs on the league werre when we had marquees that would put bums on seats and good active support. Now we got neither, and i doubt we will be able to get decent marquees again. 

Define popular? We were averaging 10k for years, there is nothing wrong with that.

In my opinion  what makes a sport ‘popular ‘ is that it is immediately identifiable by the average ‘joe blow’. When the A-league, the Socceroos or the Matildas are mentioned  it’s ‘blank looks’ by the majority of the populace. Whereas cricketers, ‘footy’ players of any of the other codes even tennis players are instantly recognised. Perhaps it is down to a lack of publicity ( must admit even my wife knows who Tim Cahill is and she has zero interest in football).

The Aleague is probably at the level somewhere in between league 1 and 2. The amount of publicity those leagues get locally in comparison to the A-League is probably the same. The cricketers, footy players and tennis players are the pinnacle of those sports so its no surprise the average joe is familiar with them. When Del Piero came, everybody took notice. Go to Japan and Korea, baseball is the national sport and everybody knows who they are. Football is 2nd in those countries so it isn't that bad. Unfortunately in this country, we have much more competition. I shall re-iterate, the A-league was going fine, until the clowns pissed of the fans. Expansion was slowly, but surely, on the horizon. 

You're right, there's is nothing really wrong with averaging 10k across the first 15 seasons of the A-League (maybe even a bit above that).
If the league can continue with those numbers, there is nothing wrong with that.
What is a problem is getting ratings which are large as the number of people in the stadium - that's a real problem, because it affects both broadcast revenue and sponsorship.

Further to the above, this is where the A-League stands, in terms of attendances, with comparable leagues world wide:

Eredivisie	Association football	Netherlands	1	2018–19	18	306	5,496,857	17,964	[35]
Russian Premier League (RPL)	Association football	Russia	1	2018–19	16	240	4,032,184	16,801	[36]
Scottish Premiership	Association football	United Kingdom	1	2018–19	12	198	3,171,149	16,016	[37]
National Rugby League (NRL)	Rugby league	Australia  New Zealand	1	2019	16	201	3,175,871[38]	15,800	[39]
Championnat de France de rugby à XV (Top 14)	Rugby union	France	1	2018–19	14	187	2,734,738	14,624
Premiership Rugby	Rugby union	United Kingdom	1	2018–19	12	135	1,958,402	14,507	[40]
Super Rugby	Rugby union	New Zealand  South Africa  Australia  Argentina  Japan	International clubs competition	2017	18	142	2,049,912	14,436	[41]
Indian Super League (ISL)	Association football	India	1	2018–19	10	81	1,049,674	12,959	[42]
Pakistan Super League	Twenty20 Cricket	Pakistan	1	2018	6	34[31]	398,765	11,728	1
Primeira Liga	Association football	Portugal	1	2018–19	18	306	3,561,484	11,639	[43]
Swiss Super League	Association football	Switzerland	1	2018–19	10	180	2,018,707	11,278	[44]
Currie Cup Premier Division	Rugby union	South Africa	1	2014	8	43	478,392[45]	11,125	[46]
Belgian First Division A	Association football	Belgium	1	2018–19	16	240	2,580,516	10,752	[47]
Speedway Ekstraliga	Motorcycle speedway	Poland	1	2018	8	62	650,069	10,484	[48]
A-League	Association football	Australia  New Zealand	1	2018–19	10	135	1,407,151	10,423	[49]
Campeonato Nacional de Liga de Segunda División (La Liga 2)	Association football	Spain	2	2018–19	22	462	4,583,763	10,418	[50]
I-League	Association football	India	2	2017-18	10	90	832,665	10,280	[51]
KBO League	Baseball	South Korea	1	2019	10	720	7,286,008	10,119	[52][53][54]
Turkish Super League	Association football	Turkey	1	2016–17	18	306	2,531,639	9,700	[55]
Mexican Pacific League	Baseball	Mexico	1	2019–20	10	333	3,170,417[56]	9,521	[13]
Ekstraklasa	Association football	Poland	1	2017–18	16	296	2,802,483	9,468	[57][58]
Liga 1	Association football	Indonesia	1	2019	18	306	2,863,876	9,359
China League One	Association football	People's Republic of China	2	2019	16	240	2,199,279	9,202	[59]
Allsvenskan	Association football	Sweden	1	2019	16	240	2,198,794	9,162

Sweden has a similar football involvement population as us and the Allsvenskan averages around the high 9k with 16 teams
Their kids like ours grow up idolizing the premier league and it's stars and use the Allsvenskan as a platform to get into better leagues.

Eurosport Sweden, an arm of the Discovery Communications-owned pan-European sports broadcaster, has concluded an exclusive deal to show Swedish soccer’s top-tier Allsvenskan starting in 2020.

The deal also includes exclusive coverage on Eurosport of Swedish soccer’s second-tier Superettan.

The deal is reported to be worth SKr540 million ($61.5 million) per season, around double the present outlay from TV4 and C More.(about 85 mil AUD)

Sweden's 3 biggest clubs have facebook likes similar or below Australia's 3 biggest clubs which is some indication of engagement.

WSW and Sydney being homeless hasn't helped and WSW and Victory being basket cases also has an effect.
I think the A-League goes ok but if the FFA spent less time the last 10 yrs trying to woo the mainstream and more effort in catering to the existing football
population then i don't think we would have the rot we have now.

Football is popular the AL on the other hand...

The A-league isn't popular let be honest becuz from day one it was shit - 70-80% football fans said it at the time - the structure, the quality on the park, the jokes of marquees, lack of P/R, plastic feel of the clubs etc - From personally experience im a MVFC fan but all my friends that watch football Serie A/EPL have Zero interest in the AL becuz they dont respect it. 

Even though the quality has got better it always has have this  unshakable notion it is a 'shit' league - regardless of it improving it wont shake off this tag of being a shit product for the majority of football fans in this country becuz it has so many inferior features compared to overseas leagues.

It doesnt help that the Socceroos are shit and the AL isnt producing talent that is marketable for the sport like basketball has atm with Simon etc.  

If the AL was producing players playing in top leagues, playing UCL it would win back some favor but you see A-L players (or former AL) playing for Socceroos and they are getting done by teams like UAE - no one respects the league or the national team becuz it isnt preforming 

Sport is a 'results' based industry football has huge potential but the AL is dead imo 

I'd scrap the AL and start again becuz it will always been seen as a dud i've said it before it is the FFA who is to blame Lowry, Gallop etc f**ked football with the dumbest model possible that is so far away from what a football league should look like that most actual football fans are turned off the sport. 

Even at its worst the NSL was better then what we have now ill stand by that and i didnt like the NLS but i love the national team - regardless of not making world cups we actually always had some top talent in the starting XI - those players were developed via the NSL system so i at least respected it and so did many others. I cant say the same for the AL.

It was a very respectable and relatively popular league with a decent slice of the summer pie and then S Lowy and Gallop went to war with its own fans.

The game has never recovered since.

Ill give you that WSW introduction with Popa in charge we were looking decent for a while 

But we are talking about the whole 15 years of the AL not just periods where it looked like it had a spark that could become a fire.  

Yep.... but to be fair I did notice 2 fans in Swans jerseys at an ALeague game last year, so they’d probably count that as a massive success!

I agree Allsvenskan is a good benchmark for us.
They have some advantages but their population is one third of ours and they have strong competition from other sports as well.
That's a pretty lucrative TV deal they have managed to put together (I guess it's only marginally higher than what our was before it was halved).
We should really be aiming for the same sort of dollars.

Agreed. In any case, their NT looks a lot stronger than the Socceroos. Some of that might be luck, but some of that is bound to be down to development system, Allsvenskan vs A-League and  and broader football culture.

If you look at that squad and add definitely Daniel Arzani and, maybe Ajdin Hrustic and Trent Saisbury, that's a very decent squad (whether it's Australia or whether it's Sweden).

Sweden's a lot smaller than Australia and football does face competition from ice hockey and things like bandy. In saying that, the level of competition is surely nothing compared to the awful, awful consequences of AFL and rugby league.

I wish people would get over the supposed benefit that marquees provided. Even the USA has realised that consistently growing support is how you develop the league rather than individual high value players. The marquee/designated player is meant to be the cherry on top and not the sole method of development. 

I hope for Australia's brand of football to be built around a variety of styles. Football with a mishmash of various different types of of footballers. Some robust defenders and midfielders, some defenders and midfielders with great football IQ whose positioning and passing allows the team to dictate (not to the point of being terrified of surrendering possession in the final third). Some attacking players who want to craft the "team goal" who takes minimal touches before passing and, as a team, manage to pass the ball into the back of the net (having outmaneouvred the opposition). And some attacking players (particularly a striker) who are a bit selfish with the ball and, using great dribbling ability, speed and an accurate shot, will take opponents on 1 vs 1.

To that end, we need a football environment that encourages all these types of footballers, including the slightly selfish 1 vs 1 type. And Australian football certainly shouldn't discourage footballers who are athletic (fast), even if they're tall.

Organically attempting to play football in the manner of Barcelona (while, to an extent, misinterpreting how Barcelona actually play football) + lacking the pathways for developing footballers + lacking decent coaches + lacking a competitive professional competition + lacking things such as street football = recipe for mediocrity.

Small wonder the broader Australian public isn't inspired by football in Australia.

In terms of more players that like the 1v1 the problem is that Australian sporting culture like team players and not selfish players. I.e they get called ball hogs

The Mbappe story which is on Optus sports explains the French like to develop individuals with flair and discipline over hard working team players, whilst here it’s the opposite.

Even Mombearts said it that Australian players are not taught to be more aggressive with their mentality rather they are told to stop after they dribble. 

Its a cultural problem that needs addressing.

+1

It might be a kind of manifestation of "tall poppy syndrome".

And it's such a stupid mentality. Thierry Henry (1.88m tall) was one of the best 1 vs 1 players in history, imo. His ball control was immaculate, he was incredibly fast and agile with absurd acceleration. He was also very strong. And then there was his the accuracy of his finishing. He could just spot weaknesses (whether in a defensive line or with the goalkeeper) and he'd exploit those weaknesses.

Absolutely prolific. Jamie Carragher reckons he was one of the best. He said

Sometimes as a defender against some of the top players we had at that time; Alan Shearer, Didier Drogba, Wayne Rooney, Robin van Persie – there’s not a lot you can do in certain situations because they were that good. But in his prime, Henry would simply run past you and there wasn’t a lot I could do.

and

I’ve used this analogy before and I make no apology for using it again. When he hit top gear and ran past you, it was like trying to chase after someone on a motorbike.

And yet despite these demonstrations of remarkable 1 vs 1 talent and plenty of shooting, Henry was a team player who contributed a huge number of assists. In the 2002-2003 season, he contributed 23 assists. But no. In Australia, you're either a ball hog or a selfless team player. Yet another false dichotomy that holds back Australian football.

It definitely tall poppy syndrome.

I remember people were criticising Arzani when he first broke through at Melb City that he doesn't have an end product, even though he does something which is quite rare in Australian attackers which beat players via the dribble but he doesnt do anything with it which is completely false.

But people wanted to point what he doesnt have at this stage of his young career rather than celebrate what he does really well.

Its no wonder in country we dont develop strong dribblers regardless of their size because they seen as risk takers which oddly enough people think can affect the sequence of play which its actually the opposite. 

I recall that young Aussie winger who played at the u17 World Cup last year and is at Sporting Lisbon, he has got excellent dribbling skills but he left around 11 or 12, maybe his family felt he would not be the same player if he stayed, who knows.

Australians also generally are not real good at sport - even though they have some weird belief they're the greatest sportspeople on earth,. Look at Aussie rules, Ffs you can come from overseas and be a professional in a year at it - they're not even good at their own sport. Maybe football hasn't taken off massively because it's too much of a challenge to actually get good at?

The Aussie Rules example doesn't really back up your point, imo. The reason you can come from overseas and become professional at Aussie Rules (as an adult) is that there's a sheer lack of technique compared to football, tennis, cricket, etc.

For those other sports, there's so much technique involved that athleticism on its own isn't enough. Generally, most pros (and probably almost every world-class player) started playing the sport at a young age. That's basically the only way for your level of technique to be world-class at the sport.

Aussie Rules is literally all about athleticism and/or size/strength (depending on position), helped along by great sports conditioning and focus on HIIT/stamina. Technique doesn't matter.

Imo, relative to population size, Australians competing in sport at the highest level are (or have been) very good. Sure the sports we've been good at aren't always the most global of games. But the reality is there's only one truly global game and that's football. So if we're to argue that Australia's not good at sport, then the same goes for all countries except Brazil, Germany, Italy, France, Argentina, etc.

I'd argue that Ben Simmons and Patty Mills are outstanding at sport and exceedingly athletic. Then if you look at tennis, the "SpAussie" Alex de Minaur is considered one of the quickest (if not the quickest) on the men's tour. Then in cricket, the hand-eye co-ordination and reflexes of Steve Smith are essentially unsurpassed in that sport at present. Bit further back, and there's Ricky Ponting, Greg Chappell and, ultimately, Don Bradman. And then there's all those tennis players (Rod Laver, Roy Emerson, Tony Roche, John Newcombe, etc.) and swimming (Ian Thorpe, Grant Hackett, Susie O'Neill, Kyle Chalmers, etc.). And then some of the athletic Aussie Rules players who, unfortunately, didn't play football instead, such as Cyril Rioli. Australian sport bleeds talent to a code which isn't played outside VIC/SA/WA.

Australians aren't the "best" at sport on the planet. No nation can reasonably make that claim. Currently, Australia's the equivalent of an average European country. But it's categorically untrue to suggest that Aussies are "not real good at sport" or that haven't been "real good at sport" in the past. Another false dichotomy although I don't single you out there, tsf, I mean another false dichotomy that prevails in Australian society.

I am an Australian and keen sports fan and continuing participant, and I have to say I've long had an issue with the bullshit that the media spins around Australia as somehow an exceptional country in sports performance.  We are, at very best, mid table also rans in any genuinely global sport.

The stats in fact show we are to a worrying degree a nation of obese couch potatoes.  

I agree that we're a nation of obese couch potatoes, particularly suburbs at a socio-economic disadvantage. But being that and excelling at elite sport isn't mutually exclusive. Look at the US.

It would be better if our obese couch potatoes were more involved in sport. Most importantly, it'd be good for their physical health and mental wellbeing. But it would also just make the player pool even bigger.

I have to say I've long had an issue with the bullshit that the media spins around Australia as somehow an exceptional country in sports performance.

Murdoch press, innit. That and the fact Australia's an island/continent in the middle of nowhere which has only been inhabited by Europeans for two and a bit centuries. People look at the United States and Europe and feel that there's lack of a "national narrative" (for white Australians, at least) and society wants to feel that their country is on the map. Sport is one means by which they seek to put it on the map. Personally, I think they should take pride in the multiculturalism of Australia and think of the national narrative in those terms.

However, between around the 1970s - 2004, overall, Australia was exceptional at sport (relative to population). Just as East Germany was until the collapse of the Berlin Wall (with the help of performance enhancing substances).

mid table also rans in any genuinely global sport.

The only truly global sport is football. Other international sports (basketball, tennis, swimming, cycling)... Australia is either reasonable or used to be. Then cricket isn't played in as many parts of the world as those sports. But where it is played, it's often more popular than those sport. It's the most popular sport in the second most populated country on the planet. Australia's average at cricket now, but used to be prolific.

I agree, though, that Australia's looking decidedly midtable in most international sports at present. But I would draw the distinction between an international sport and a global sport. The only truly global sport = football.

To borrow from Barca4Life's excellent words.

Here's footage of a footballer with individual "flair and discipline"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UECYEyENt84

and here's a footage of a team player who looks for the pass so that his team can score goals.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFhhRRgQucY

Whatddya know? It's the same guy. His name is Thierry Henry. So it is possible to be both those things. Perhaps, in Australia, we can encourage more individual flair and 1 vs 1 duels while also encouraging teamwork and possession based football? But maybe that's too complex.

Urghh, anybody know how to embed youtube videos? That's proving too complex for me right now.

I just copy the URL from the address bar. Then I go -> "+ Insert" -> Insert Video -> YouTube. And paste. But the video is never embedded. Just a blank space.

It looks like [YouTube]URL[/YouTube].

Where am I going wrong?

They don't seem to be embedding at all with the current software, unfortunately.

Cheers paladisious.

Ahh the old forum

Its a shame we couldnt see it, sigh.

But you still can, Barca4Life. Just click on each of the hyperlinks.

Thierry Henry Top 25 Goals: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UECYEyENt84

Thierry Henry - All 106 Assists: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFhhRRgQucY

You'll notice with the videos of the assists, a lot of the goals are down to Henry's vision and accuracy in passing. He finds the runs of Dennis Bergkamp, Freddie Ljungberg, Robert Pires, etc. Not unlike Aaron Mooy's passing. Very unselfish.

At 11:13, his pass is so good that Patrick Vieira is literally able to walk the ball over the line.

But the other interesting thing is that some of the assists come  from the individual runs that Henry does. He's so good that the opposition player tries to stick to him like glue. Sometimes Henry has 2-3 opponents trying to dispossess him. He evades them. As a result, the defensive line of the other team is fractured. Henry passes to a teammate. That teammates has isolated the goalkeeper and, sometimes, is able to pass the ball into the net for an easy goal.

The only way that anybody can develop high quality 1 vs 1 ability (for match situations) is:
(a) have the natural speed, agility and co-ordination (as Thierry Henry did). And
(b) to practise 1 vs 1 for hours and hours from a young age on one's own, with one's friends (street football), in all phases of training (including "phases of play" and practice matches) and in competitive matches. Think of the number of hours of practice it takes to perfect a skill.

Individualism needs to be encouraged, not just possession-based football. Are Australian footballers being told off for trying the 1 vs 1 route when there's a safer pass, or just for holding on to the ball for too long? If they aren't allowed to do this (even if they're just discouraged), Australia will find it hard to produce many strong 1 vs 1 footballers.

Cheers for the videos Quickflick.

Henry was special in his hey day wasn't he?

1v1 players are about risk, the same goes for players that are press resistant that like to make risk worthy pass or dribble to break a line or two instead of playing the safe option as a 2 touch robot which coaches want them to do in risk adverse situations on the pitch.

Thiago Alcantara is a great example of risk taking No.6/8.

When players that take risk often it could lead to mistakes which will happen, otherwise how could a player learn if they dont? They will learn better decision making and better execution if they are allowed to express themselves rather than get over coached in what to do and often than not it places fear into the players and eventually the player will not enjoy playing the game they feel they want to play.

It seems with the team oriented culture it does oddly enough encourage risk adverse styles of play and coaches and might be a major drawback in coach education in Australia.

Too emphasis on results instead of player development might have that consequence as well.

Well said. I think Henry was one of the greatest strikers in history.

I think that some people get overcoached and lose their individual flair and aggressiveness. I remember Massimo Luongo saying of Daniel Arzani something along the lines of he hasn't had his  individualism coached out of him.

Very significant remark. And when you think about the last World Cup. We only looked like we might score when Arzani was on the pitch for his cameos. For 80% of the match, our risk-averse passing got us nowhere. The only way for there to be more Arzani-type footballers is for individualism to be encouraged. It shouldn't lead to footballers being told off. In many cases, it shouldn't even be checked.

And as the videos of Henry show, having footballers with these individual skills helps the team. It leads to better passing and more goalscoring opportunities. But it's not possible to develop those type of footballers if individualism is stamped out from the get-go. Individualism needs to be encouraged and coached effectively. And then tactically refined as the footballer gets older. That's how the Henry's are developed.

That’s why I like the French with their player development, they might not be like Spain, Germany or Holland and have a distinctive style of play but their preference for developing individuals over system based players over the years makes them one of the best exports of football talent in the world. 

Australia has always been the best or close to the best in almost every sport.

However with football we are light years behind the top 10 teams in the world and no amount of hard work can change that.

It's a pipe dream to think we can be a top 10 team so most fans aren't remotely interested in the game and watching our mediocrity.

Which bring some us back to the fact that we only like winners.

So do almost every other country.

I posted this on a different forum ill post it here 

You either got good players or you dont - we currently dont thus interest is at an all time low. 
I dont follow athletics and i dont care about Jamaica but i know who Usain Bolt is, becuz the athlete is a 'brand'.
Ive never watched a game of golf but i know who 'tiger woods' is etc

Sport on a professional level is a business and clubs/players/leagues are brands. 

Thus it is hard to market Australian football when we are rubbish. During 2006 golden Era Socceroos where on Weet Bix, Optus ads etc they were everywhere. Becuz when a fan typed in Kewell/Viduka/Cahill etc and saw the player scoring in the PL you where like this guy is class. Becuz the EPL itself is a 'massive brand' even if you dont like football you know that the PL is one of the best if not the best best league in the world u know Liverpool is one of the biggest clubs in the world - thus when you see Australians doing well in the PL it turns those players into a 'brand' themselves. 
It is why everyone was a lil disappointed Mooy has gone to the CSL when he could of kept playing in the PL
The easiest way to put it is 

If the EPL (or European football) is Nike. The AL are home brand runners but they are trying to charge Nike prices, they dont look as nice, they arent as flash so why buy them? The Brands within Australian football right now are rubbish bar the clubs are seen as rubbish becuz they are held back by a salary cap in a league with a joke of a structure, the socceroos are seen as rubbish becuz they lack star power. Even people who arent major EPL fans would say to me ill watch Brighton to see Mooy and Ryan play (last season)  

It is cut and dry in sport - need to realise we cant complete with 'top' leagues for quality but we can produce quality to play in those top leagues which overall lifts the brand that is the AL and Australian football. At the same time seeing AL players struggle to make it in Europe and fail to to do anything decent for the Socceroos hurts the brand that is the AL. If 10 players from the AL tomorrow went to the PL and did well in the league it would be the best marketing for the AL becuz people would be like 'maybe' this league is better then we give it credit for. At the same time now that the AL development is toilet it reaffirms the notion that the league is shit

The big issue i have with GA not only is he a incompetent manager the Socceroos manager himself could be a 'brand' ill give another example
Marcello Lippi manages China i couldnt name one player that players for China but i know any team managed by team will be tactically decent and defensively solid

Despite the constant disappointments and incompetence, the ALeague still has average attendances in excess of many Euro leagues. 

@spongebob 

can I ask which 3 Swedish clubs you used as reference?

10k average crowds is pretty damn great and something I would have only ever dreamed of 20 years ago ...... but over all general popularity.... I don't know about that.
It's all about numbers through the turnstiles, eyeballs on screens, revenue streams, this, profits that... merch merch merch and more merch,,,,,
As someone posted above we have a comparable league in terms of metrics to most European nations but where the difference lies n my humble opinion is that here it's all about the league and not about actual club culture, I mean I just read an article about a 14 year old kid starting an active supporters group in Canberra years ago hoping to get a team there? WTF is he actively supporting? Am I the only one that thinks this is crazy? In countries like Turkey, Sweden etc from the previous list maybe there are other factors why people don't attend the game but I can  be pretty sure that 80% of the population would know who Besiktas or AIK where... can we say the same about us?
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