Are we on the cusp of a better generation?


Are we on the cusp of a better generation?

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jas88
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Decentric 2 - 26 May 2022 12:01 AM
From 2009 I started compiling stats for a while on  AL and ACL games, and Socceroo fixtures. 

Got any xG stats? cant find any, every league in world has them except a-league. Even though the people that invented them a partners with victory haha
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Barca4Life - 24 May 2022 1:55 PM
It depends on a few things but mainly it will come down to the clubs they play for and things like injuries don't get in the way of promising young players.

I do agree this is a promising generation, for me that stands out from this is so how some are technically gifted they are primary due to the curriculum influence but to the popularity of futsal which in my opinion should be encouraged more at all levels because its making a difference in the type of players we are developing i.e Rogic, Arzani, Tilio etc.

Another key point there is also an the new emergence of the African diaspora coming in it's giving us a different outlook compared to the past which was predominately European Australian.

But it's looking promising so far, hopefully we can continue to improve with more elite club academies, the NSD but also we get longer seasons with more games and continued improvements in good coach education and talent ID.

Lots of variables at play, firstly COVID allowed for more opportunity for younger players. The churn of an older generation of recycled players is coming to an end.
Disappointed for Tulio and Colakovski, both in my opinion should have received more game time.

Personally I think the quality was mostly there abouts, opportunity is a problem along with brave coaches who believe in youth.
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roosty - 24 May 2022 11:41 AM
2007: very excited about youth and prospects for the future
2008: very excited about youth and prospects for the future
2009: very excited about youth and prospects for the future
2010: very excited about youth and prospects for the future
2011: very excited about youth and prospects for the future
2012: very excited about youth and prospects for the future
2013: very excited about youth and prospects for the future
2014: very excited about youth and prospects for the future
2015: very excited about youth and prospects for the future
2016: very excited about youth and prospects for the future
2017: very excited about youth and prospects for the future
2018: very excited about youth and prospects for the future
2019: very excited about youth and prospects for the future
2020: very excited about youth and prospects for the future
2021: very excited about youth and prospects for the future
2022: very excited about youth and prospects for the future


Hit the nail on the head, great post
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SWandP - 24 May 2022 8:12 AM
Yes.  You should see what the kids are doing on the parks on the weekends.  The problem is the same as in the past:  at 16 years of age the great majority of the talent leaves the game.

Most always will.

However, if there is a clear path to a professional career, then the most driven (not always the most talented) will push on.  If there was an additional 300 places available, within country, for those kids to aspire to, then the wastage will reduce to less devastating levels.

The creation of that second division will be the formative step that elevates professional football from its baby knees to at least a stumbling toddler's gait.

Correct. Too many talented players fade away as the reality of a pathway/destination dries up.


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Decentric 2 - 26 May 2022 12:01 AM
Watched my first AL game  for some time a few weeks ago, between Western United and Melb Vic.

From 2009 I started compiling stats for a while on  AL and ACL games, and Socceroo fixtures. At the  time I spent weeks in an advanced  coaching course. All the new methodology they applied in analysing  our style of game, was that Aussie teams struggled to keep the ball,  having to  work too hard to keep the ball - and - the  play was in the transitions all the time.

Transitions, Defensive and Attacking, means the  phases of play between Possession and Ball Possession Opposition. In  2008 and until about 5 years later, Aussie teams, even the national team, struggled to pass the ball more than 180 times in a game.

In the game I watched a few weeks ago, Melb Vic had accrued 380 odd passes by half time. Western United accrued 199 by half time. This equates to circa 770 and 400 passes for an entire game! 

Football technique - first touch, passing the ball, body shape, both footedness, handling speed, movement off the ball, etc, has improved immeasurably for both teams to be able to maintain possession so much more easily than 10 -15 years ago. So the A L has improved decidedly in technical terms.

We are playing a more technical short passing game - but - it is a question of the rate we've improved compared to our Asian opponents.  

We have definitely improved our depth. The question is whether the guys at the very top are any better than previous generations.
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Watched my first AL game  for some time a few weeks ago, between Western United and Melb Vic.

From 2009 I started compiling stats for a while on  AL and ACL games, and Socceroo fixtures. At the  time I spent weeks in an advanced  coaching course. All the new methodology they applied in analysing  our style of game, was that Aussie teams struggled to keep the ball,  having to  work too hard to keep the ball - and - the  play was in the transitions all the time.

Transitions, Defensive and Attacking, means the  phases of play between Possession and Ball Possession Opposition. In  2008 and until about 5 years later, Aussie teams, even the national team, struggled to pass the ball more than 180 times in a game.

In the game I watched a few weeks ago, Melb Vic had accrued 380 odd passes by half time. Western United accrued 199 by half time. This equates to circa 770 and 400 passes for an entire game! 

Football technique - first touch, passing the ball, body shape, both footedness, handling speed, movement off the ball, etc, has improved immeasurably for both teams to be able to maintain possession so much more easily than 10 -15 years ago. So the A L has improved decidedly in technical terms.

We are playing a more technical short passing game - but - it is a question of the rate we've improved compared to our Asian opponents.  
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till we have a 2nd division and a get transfer fees to an acceptable level the league and the Socceroos will continue to be sub-par - as too many potential talents leave for rubbish leagues in west Asia or give up to easily in top European leagues for easy money in Asia or in the MLS 

the AL has improved but so has a number of leagues around the world from 'smaller' footballing nations have come up it is more competitive now then ever and we still have a 'sub-par' format after almost 2 decades of a professional league. 

these Kangaroos can play football - 
Ange P. (Intercontinental WC Play-offs 2017) 

KEEP POLITICS OUT OF FOOTBALL

Edited
3 Years Ago by Davstar
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jas88 - 25 May 2022 3:46 PM
Podiacide - 25 May 2022 11:52 AM

100% right! I think Teague is another one that might break through next year. He's played over 50 games now against professional men in a country he doesn't speak the language and he's only 20.

Is that the case? Would be stoked if so, but every online source I can find point to him only having started 13 games in the Portuguese 2nd Division, and being subbed on in 11 additional games.

Would absolutely love for him to kick on though. He was our best at Joeys level back in the day. 
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jas88 - 25 May 2022 3:46 PM
Podiacide - 25 May 2022 11:52 AM

100% right! I think Teague is another one that might break through next year. He's played over 50 games now against professional men in a country he doesn't speak the language and he's only 20.

Teague should have been one of the first picked for the u23's squad, but somehow was overlooked
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Jake Brimmer? 
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Podiacide - 25 May 2022 11:52 AM
roosty - 24 May 2022 11:41 AM

Xane Zianeddine (now working at an Apple store in Sydney) - 

Nothing the matter with putting your football career on the backburner to follow your dreams
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Podiacide - 25 May 2022 11:52 AM
roosty - 24 May 2022 11:41 AM

For me, the most promising o/s players who have reached their potential are those who have grinded away at lower leagues (often on loan), playing against adults, seemingly under the radar and slowly worked their way up to better clubs and better leagues.


100% right! I think Teague is another one that might break through next year. He's played over 50 games now against professional men in a country he doesn't speak the language and he's only 20.
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grazorblade - 25 May 2022 6:30 AM
We have been getting better for a while but that was disguised by the fact that cahill kept playing for a long time. Pre 2014 we also had a lot of golden gen play into their twilight which disguised how bad younger players were at the time


Completely agree with this. I think the fact that we had some great players papering over the cracks even into the later years disguised just how bad the team actually was. We were handing out caps to anyone who started a handful of games in any league in Europe. The fact that we can reject players playing at lower levels in Europe now shows how much things have changed. 
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roosty - 24 May 2022 11:41 AM
2007: very excited about youth and prospects for the future
2008: very excited about youth and prospects for the future
2009: very excited about youth and prospects for the future
2010: very excited about youth and prospects for the future
2011: very excited about youth and prospects for the future
2012: very excited about youth and prospects for the future
2013: very excited about youth and prospects for the future
2014: very excited about youth and prospects for the future
2015: very excited about youth and prospects for the future
2016: very excited about youth and prospects for the future
2017: very excited about youth and prospects for the future
2018: very excited about youth and prospects for the future
2019: very excited about youth and prospects for the future
2020: very excited about youth and prospects for the future
2021: very excited about youth and prospects for the future
2022: very excited about youth and prospects for the future


This!!!
After following O/S aussies abroad for a decade, for every 100 we get excited about only 1 or 2 really make their mark, another dozen go to ok leagues and do reasonable (which gets them selection for Socceroos), another third languish in lower leagues and eventually quit. Most others never play more than a handful of games. 
Even players that were signed by big clubs and hyped in overseas press as wunderkids have mostly failed to get anywhere. 
Arzani, Armenakas, Xane Zianeddine (now working at an Apple store in Sydney) - all were on the books of top 5 clubs in the world and all have been flops. 
Those on this forum awhile have seen it all before and have been bitterly disappointed. 
For me, the most promising o/s players who have reached their potential are those who have grinded away at lower leagues (often on loan), playing against adults, seemingly under the radar and slowly worked their way up to better clubs and better leagues. Harry souttar is a classic example and is now our best bet of getting a contract in top 4 leagues at a reasonably young age (if he recovers ok from injury). 
So many A league players show promise, go o/s to promising contracts only to not make the grade or be stuck in the youth sides (Italiano) and become massive disappointments. 
I won’t be truly excited till a young player like mcgree is getting regular solid minutes in a top league. But we need to face the fact that our players reaching this level will likely be very few and far between. 
I know he is a bit older than most in the discussions of this thread but I can see Jay Rich Baghelou becoming at least a solid championship player maybe reaching EPL if he continues his current trajectory. He developed incredible resilience pulling himself up from very low level leagues in England before taking his opportunity in Crystal Palace academy to keep learning his craft. (He only switch from striker to defender a few years ago too). 

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milan_7 - 25 May 2022 10:01 AM
tsf - 24 May 2022 12:16 PM

I actually think CB is one of our best areas, maybe not by depth but Souttar is already our best CB at 23 and Rowles has been excellent and looks to be the next Sainsbury (and is importantly a left footer, with most coaches wanting a left sided centre back nowadays he'll go far). Popovic has also been unbelievable since he broke through at Adelaide. Agree about DM though, out of Stensness, Devlin & Gomulka I think Gomulka goes the furthest.

I would have added Keanu Baccus to that group but I don't like his recent move. I think he could improve a lot under a top manager, something he hasn't had for a long time, if ever. 
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tsf - 24 May 2022 12:16 PM
What we are missing is the most important part of teams - good centre backs and DMs

Don't mean to sound glum, but I can't think of one player I am overly excited about. However, I am coaching kids and we are turning kids away and they love the game so hopefully we see the fruits. 

I actually think CB is one of our best areas, maybe not by depth but Souttar is already our best CB at 23 and Rowles has been excellent and looks to be the next Sainsbury (and is importantly a left footer, with most coaches wanting a left sided centre back nowadays he'll go far). Popovic has also been unbelievable since he broke through at Adelaide. Agree about DM though, out of Stensness, Devlin & Gomulka I think Gomulka goes the furthest.
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The whole world is also improving though so I am a rather cautious in the future generation if what we deem as 'gold' is the rest of the world's 'bronze'?


Everybodys favourite lurker.

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We have been getting better for a while but that was disguised by the fact that cahill kept playing for a long time. Pre 2014 we also had a lot of golden gen play into their twilight which disguised how bad younger players were at the time
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Just on the keepers. We are far from a golden generation. As Ron Corry noted in this video. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VahwXe_N_V0&t=1s

Bosnich, Schwarzer and Kalac were all playing against each other from about the age of 13 playing in the western suburbs of Sydney with a number of other very good keppers around as well. This generation of keepers have Ryan and possibly the unavailable Langerak that I could think about as at or even approaching that level and then it falls away dramatically.
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Barca4Life - 24 May 2022 1:55 PM
It depends on a few things but mainly it will come down to the clubs they play for and things like injuries don't get in the way of promising young players.

I do agree this is a promising generation, for me that stands out from this is so how some are technically gifted they are primary due to the curriculum influence but to the popularity of futsal which in my opinion should be encouraged more at all levels because its making a difference in the type of players we are developing i.e Rogic, Arzani, Tilio etc.

Another key point there is also an the new emergence of the African diaspora coming in it's giving us a different outlook compared to the past which was predominately European Australian.

But it's looking promising so far, hopefully we can continue to improve with more elite club academies, the NSD but also we get longer seasons with more games and continued improvements in good coach education and talent ID.

Yes this is going to be a deep well of talent I think. Even in local football the African lads that are fresh off the boat and coming through have heaps of talent. They've definitely lifted the standard around the place. They play a different sort of football too. More razzle dazzle, wanting to 'own' players (showing my age here with the yoof lingo) by nuttying them and all the rest of it. (Take too many touches sometimes. Would drive me bananas if I were coaching. )

They bring a lot of family and friends to the games too which makes it better again.  


Member since 2008.


Edited
3 Years Ago by Munrubenmuz
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It depends on a few things but mainly it will come down to the clubs they play for and things like injuries don't get in the way of promising young players.

I do agree this is a promising generation, for me that stands out from this is so how some are technically gifted they are primary due to the curriculum influence but to the popularity of futsal which in my opinion should be encouraged more at all levels because its making a difference in the type of players we are developing i.e Rogic, Arzani, Tilio etc.

Another key point there is also an the new emergence of the African diaspora coming in it's giving us a different outlook compared to the past which was predominately European Australian.

But it's looking promising so far, hopefully we can continue to improve with more elite club academies, the NSD but also we get longer seasons with more games and continued improvements in good coach education and talent ID.
Edited
3 Years Ago by Barca4Life
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tsf - 24 May 2022 12:16 PM
What we are missing is the most important part of teams - good centre backs and DMs

Don't mean to sound glum, but I can't think of one player I am overly excited about. However, I am coaching kids and we are turning kids away and they love the game so hopefully we see the fruits. 

I like Stensness, Devlin and Gomulka at DM while at CB I have high hopes for Alex Popovic and Dan Hall.
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What we are missing is the most important part of teams - good centre backs and DMs

Don't mean to sound glum, but I can't think of one player I am overly excited about. However, I am coaching kids and we are turning kids away and they love the game so hopefully we see the fruits. 
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I know people are shitting on this thread but the big difference is the majority of this group is actually playing. Go back 7-8 years and I remember this forum was bleak, there would be 3-5 players who would actually be getting game time every weekend. 

Now we have numerous young players all over the place. It would be nice to have a couple of superstars but it much more important to have a wide depth and decent quality players across the park. 
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2007: very excited about youth and prospects for the future
2008: very excited about youth and prospects for the future
2009: very excited about youth and prospects for the future
2010: very excited about youth and prospects for the future
2011: very excited about youth and prospects for the future
2012: very excited about youth and prospects for the future
2013: very excited about youth and prospects for the future
2014: very excited about youth and prospects for the future
2015: very excited about youth and prospects for the future
2016: very excited about youth and prospects for the future
2017: very excited about youth and prospects for the future
2018: very excited about youth and prospects for the future
2019: very excited about youth and prospects for the future
2020: very excited about youth and prospects for the future
2021: very excited about youth and prospects for the future
2022: very excited about youth and prospects for the future


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bettega - 24 May 2022 12:50 AM
We say the exact same thing every couple of years, since season 1 of the A-League.
But 17 years on, and there are only a handful that have reached semi-decent heights.

So much this. There do seem to be more decent players than usual though (strikers in particular), and they're younger. Hopefully a couple more can kick on.

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dr. bellows - 24 May 2022 2:39 AM
You forgot about McGree who could be the best of the lot in 2026 if injuries don't drag him down. I'm a bit with bettega though - there will be the typical attrition rate where a percentage won't reach their expected potential due to injury, poor choice of club/league, lack of work ethic and willingness to sacrifice, or just simply being overhyped from the start. 

I don’t know how I forgot about him, I agree he’s the most exciting of them all! We have so many good 8’s we need a couple of 6’s (think Gomulka has big potential).

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jas88 - 24 May 2022 9:43 AM
The league needs to make sure we keep playing the youngsters bring in new rules if you have to, but a 2nd division is paramount to it working. 

If we have 16 pro teams, 16 semi pro teams aiming to become fully pro and 30-40 semi-pro teams in the State league sunder them vying for promotion, that is a lot of scope for most talented players to be funnelled up, no need for specific match day requirements around ages - in my opinion. Dont need to legislate change to give youth a go, just create more opportunities and it will/should happen naturally.
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The league needs to make sure we keep playing the youngsters bring in new rules if you have to, but a 2nd division is paramount to it working. 
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SWandP - 24 May 2022 8:12 AM
Yes.  You should see what the kids are doing on the parks on the weekends.  The problem is the same as in the past:  at 16 years of age the great majority of the talent leaves the game.

Most always will.

However, if there is a clear path to a professional career, then the most driven (not always the most talented) will push on.  If there was an additional 300 places available, within country, for those kids to aspire to, then the wastage will reduce to less devastating levels.

The creation of that second division will be the formative step that elevates professional football from its baby knees to at least a stumbling toddler's gait.

Bang on !!!!!! 100% agree.
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