The "let's hang the bishop" vigilante bandwagon


The "let's hang the bishop" vigilante bandwagon

Author
Message
mouflonrouge
mouflonrouge
Rising Star
Rising Star (875 reputation)Rising Star (875 reputation)Rising Star (875 reputation)Rising Star (875 reputation)Rising Star (875 reputation)Rising Star (875 reputation)Rising Star (875 reputation)Rising Star (875 reputation)Rising Star (875 reputation)Rising Star (875 reputation)Rising Star (875 reputation)

Group: Forum Members
Posts: 861, Visits: 0
I'm no Catholic so I don't really have a horse in this race. But, I do see the anti Christian Godless hordes just ganging up against what they thought would be "an easy kill" against Christianity as a whole. 

There is a lot of virtue signalling here - you know, the look at me being outraged at alleged Sexual Abuse. 

I will be clear about my stance. I do not believe Cardinal Pell committed any Sex Abuse crimes against anyone. In other words, I believe he is 100% innocent. 

At best, he may be guilty of inaction at various times as Bishop in Australia some decades in the past. 

I think the mass hysterical Godless Masses are about to get an arse kicking. He came to Australia to defend his name and his legacy - a strong legacy of Christianity and helping people and families. A legacy the Godless hordes do not have and never will have. Many of the Godless hordes never thought they would see the day, but Cardinal Pell has proven himself to be a lot more astute and brave than they are and he does have something to defend and protect. So he is in Australia, to fight, to defend his legacy and himself. Clear indication that as far as he is concerned, he is innocent and will fight to protect his innocence. 

Now all the accusers and detractors will have to put up or shut up in a Court of Law. Let's hear about all the alleged instances of "Sexual Abuse" and let's take a look at and scrutinise the evidence rather than conduct a "Trial by Media" and a war against Christianity as a whole! :)

God Bless cardinal Pell. I will be praying for you Good Man. 
Edited
4 Months Ago by mouflonrouge
paulbagzFC
paulbagzFC
Legend
Legend (41K reputation)Legend (41K reputation)Legend (41K reputation)Legend (41K reputation)Legend (41K reputation)Legend (41K reputation)Legend (41K reputation)Legend (41K reputation)Legend (41K reputation)Legend (41K reputation)Legend (41K reputation)

Group: Forum Members
Posts: 41K, Visits: 0
Top kek.

2 pages max.

-PB

http://i.imgur.com/6NzMzeY.png

Bundoora Brah
Bundoora Brah
Legend
Legend (10K reputation)Legend (10K reputation)Legend (10K reputation)Legend (10K reputation)Legend (10K reputation)Legend (10K reputation)Legend (10K reputation)Legend (10K reputation)Legend (10K reputation)Legend (10K reputation)Legend (10K reputation)

Group: Forum Members
Posts: 9.8K, Visits: 0
he's a pedo apologist at best.  and so are you if you think defending pedo's helps your religion.

Expansion - FTA - P&R - Transfer Fees - NOW





mouflonrouge
mouflonrouge
Rising Star
Rising Star (875 reputation)Rising Star (875 reputation)Rising Star (875 reputation)Rising Star (875 reputation)Rising Star (875 reputation)Rising Star (875 reputation)Rising Star (875 reputation)Rising Star (875 reputation)Rising Star (875 reputation)Rising Star (875 reputation)Rising Star (875 reputation)

Group: Forum Members
Posts: 861, Visits: 0
inala brah - 27 Jul 2017 10:00 AM
I am also sure that you don't have any of the facts either. You just he's a pedo apologist at best.  and so are you if you think defending pedo's helps your religion.

That's defamatory.

My stance against Pedophilia is harder than yours.

But I am not a vigilante. I believe in due process. Cardinal Pell has come to Australia to defend his name and to be a part of this due process. 

Due process is probably what he applied when he held the Highest Catholic Office in Australia. I will leave the Courts to decide on that one because I don't have any of the facts. I am pretty sure you don't have any of the facts either. You just fire from the hip, in a hysterical and unhinged manner. Labeling me as pedo apologist is all you can do. Sad really! 

What I strongly do believe, is that pell is an innocent man and has had to deal with a lot of vitriol being flung his way by the hysterical and unhinged Godless masses. 
Edited
4 Months Ago by mouflonrouge
Scotch&Coke
Scotch&Coke
Rising Star
Rising Star (923 reputation)Rising Star (923 reputation)Rising Star (923 reputation)Rising Star (923 reputation)Rising Star (923 reputation)Rising Star (923 reputation)Rising Star (923 reputation)Rising Star (923 reputation)Rising Star (923 reputation)Rising Star (923 reputation)Rising Star (923 reputation)

Group: Forum Members
Posts: 886, Visits: 0
Had a few beers mate?
mouflonrouge
mouflonrouge
Rising Star
Rising Star (875 reputation)Rising Star (875 reputation)Rising Star (875 reputation)Rising Star (875 reputation)Rising Star (875 reputation)Rising Star (875 reputation)Rising Star (875 reputation)Rising Star (875 reputation)Rising Star (875 reputation)Rising Star (875 reputation)Rising Star (875 reputation)

Group: Forum Members
Posts: 861, Visits: 0
Scotch&Coke - 27 Jul 2017 10:58 AM
Had a few beers mate?

Nope! You?
Edited
4 Months Ago by mouflonrouge
marconi101
marconi101
Legend
Legend (16K reputation)Legend (16K reputation)Legend (16K reputation)Legend (16K reputation)Legend (16K reputation)Legend (16K reputation)Legend (16K reputation)Legend (16K reputation)Legend (16K reputation)Legend (16K reputation)Legend (16K reputation)

Group: Forum Members
Posts: 15K, Visits: 0
What does God think?

GET GOD ON THE PHONE
mouflonrouge
mouflonrouge
Rising Star
Rising Star (875 reputation)Rising Star (875 reputation)Rising Star (875 reputation)Rising Star (875 reputation)Rising Star (875 reputation)Rising Star (875 reputation)Rising Star (875 reputation)Rising Star (875 reputation)Rising Star (875 reputation)Rising Star (875 reputation)Rising Star (875 reputation)

Group: Forum Members
Posts: 861, Visits: 0
marconi101 - 27 Jul 2017 11:40 AM
What does God think?

GET GOD ON THE PHONE

George Pell is another Pontius Pilot victim (if you look at it, the story is the same) and hence he is walking in the same footsteps as JC with head held up high and with such pride and conviction.

Humankind has come full circle and soon, Christians will be the leppers and scorn of a Godless society but that is His method of sorting the Chaff from the Wheat. All we need now is the feeding of Christians to hungry Lions at half time at AFL matches to keep families and children amused whilst the eat their meat pie. 



Edited
4 Months Ago by mouflonrouge
mcjules
mcjules
World Class
World Class (7.6K reputation)World Class (7.6K reputation)World Class (7.6K reputation)World Class (7.6K reputation)World Class (7.6K reputation)World Class (7.6K reputation)World Class (7.6K reputation)World Class (7.6K reputation)World Class (7.6K reputation)World Class (7.6K reputation)World Class (7.6K reputation)

Group: Moderators
Posts: 7.5K, Visits: 0
Not sure why we need another George Pell thread when there's a perfectly decent long standing one. I'll lock it in an hour unless there are reasoned objections.



mouflonrouge
mouflonrouge
Rising Star
Rising Star (875 reputation)Rising Star (875 reputation)Rising Star (875 reputation)Rising Star (875 reputation)Rising Star (875 reputation)Rising Star (875 reputation)Rising Star (875 reputation)Rising Star (875 reputation)Rising Star (875 reputation)Rising Star (875 reputation)Rising Star (875 reputation)

Group: Forum Members
Posts: 861, Visits: 0
mcjules - 27 Jul 2017 12:08 PM
Not sure why we need another George Pell thread when there's a perfectly decent long standing one. I'll lock it in an hour unless there are reasoned objections.

I would like to make a reasoned objection.

The other thread was about Cardinal Pell not returning home to face the music and using his medical condition as an excuse for not returning.

The subject of this thread is something entirely different. It is about my general opinion that there seems to be a lot of vitriolic abuse flung towards the Catholic Church today. Tomorrow it will be someone else's turn.

I am not at all against the Catholic Church facing the music if there is evidence that some people are victims of Sexual Abuse. However, this debate has become extremely irrational and toxic and the Cardinal has had to endure an unfair "Trial by Media"

He has also return to Australia to clear his name. Something I can only respect him for. 

It would be a terrible shame if this thread is closed, especially since the other thread was mocking Cardinal Pell with a high degree of unfairness. My view seems contrarian to many here, but Cardinal Pell has out trumped that view by coming to Australia. This is truly amazing. And good luck to the fellow.

I am so pleased he has come to Australia because I want to get to the bottom of all the hyperbole and allegations and to see what is true and what is not. 
Edited
4 Months Ago by mouflonrouge
paulbagzFC
paulbagzFC
Legend
Legend (41K reputation)Legend (41K reputation)Legend (41K reputation)Legend (41K reputation)Legend (41K reputation)Legend (41K reputation)Legend (41K reputation)Legend (41K reputation)Legend (41K reputation)Legend (41K reputation)Legend (41K reputation)

Group: Forum Members
Posts: 41K, Visits: 0
Double Yawn.

-PB

http://i.imgur.com/6NzMzeY.png

mouflonrouge
mouflonrouge
Rising Star
Rising Star (875 reputation)Rising Star (875 reputation)Rising Star (875 reputation)Rising Star (875 reputation)Rising Star (875 reputation)Rising Star (875 reputation)Rising Star (875 reputation)Rising Star (875 reputation)Rising Star (875 reputation)Rising Star (875 reputation)Rising Star (875 reputation)

Group: Forum Members
Posts: 861, Visits: 0
Just scening the Mass medfia, it seems difficult to find a report that is well balanced. George Pell is after all, the most hated man in Australia according to some, so don't qworry about any evidence. 

This has turned out to be a "witch hunt". I just can't believe that our society has become so angry and vitriolic in the process. The anger and hatred is palpable. We never use to be like that but things are getting out of hand. 

I have however found a nice piece from the Herald Sun:
George Pell is the most hated man in Australia, if the media is to be believed. He has been called "scum", a "coward", "sociopathic" and a protector of pedophile priests. The royal commission into child sex abuse in institutions virtually called him a liar to his face last week. It called excuses "implausible " - the excuses that he knew nothing of the pedophile priests around him and was lied to by the bosses and colleagues who protected them. But just as implausible, it seems to me, is that George Pell - the third most senior Catholic in the world - would knowingly turn a blind eye while his colleagues raped children, and that he would then tell lie after lie about it over four days in the witness box last week. Moreover, he would do all this without the royal commission being able to discover a single proof of it. And to add to that implausibility, Pell would be party to this ghastly cover up, yet would later create the first church fund to compensate victims, reform church procedures to ensure pedophile priests could never flourish in the Australian church, and then move to the Vatican to clean up astonishing financial corruption reaching to almost the very top. So which of these two improbable scenarios should you believe? Pell the monster or Pell the innocent and reformer? Let me tell you what I have finally concluded after extensive investigation and sometime agonising reflection. I have heard Pell give 19 hours of evidence under hostile cross examination. I've read extensively the case against him put by prominent media figures. I've spoken to five victims. I have met Pell four times in the past, albeit never for long. I have read some of his sermons. I've spoken to friends and colleagues of his. Last week I spoke to Pell for about six hours in Rome, including one hour before the Sky News camerasone hour before the Sky News cameras, during which I put to him every question that was bothering me. On Friday I even sat in on a private meeting at the Vatican between Pell and priests from America and Australia as he spoke very frankly about corruption in his church. Importantly, I have questioned my own predisposition to give Pell the benefit of the doubt, and last week even wrote a piece damning his recordwrote a piece damning his record after he made a shocking comment in the witness box - a comment I and most other journalists misinterpreted as meaning he'd had no interest in abused children. I felt seduced by the media praise when I did this, and know I would have been hailed as a hero if I'd kept kicking him, rather thanapologising after I rechecked the transcript and realised my mistakeapologising after I rechecked the transcript and realised my mistake. But in the end, I had to follow the evidence and make a judgement of the man I came to know pretty well. And it is this: George Pell is innocent. Pell was not part of a cover-up of pedophile priests. He is not a "coward". He is not "scum". He is not as emotionless as he seems. Moreover, I find it almost impossible to believe Victoria Police is now taking seriously claims that Pell himself abused between five and 10 boys, not one of whom has come forward to the royal commission. And, yes, he is the victim of a witch hunt. It is true that he was blind as a priest in Ballarat to tiny warning signs and at times showed a lack of initiative in chasing up vague complaints. But how many more people were just as guilty, or far more? The evidence to the royal commission shows that even parents of those hundreds of victims did not believe their own children, or did not know they'd been abused or did not go to the police. Even when the son of a policeman was molested by the worst pedophile priest, Gerald Ridsdale, no charges were laid. None of the policemen in three towns where Ridsdale molested children knew of the pedophilia or took action. None of the drinkers of the Apollo Bay pub - who the royal commission said knew Ridsdale molested children - went to the police. The Solicitor General of Victoria decline to prosecute another pedophile priest. None of the parents of children who swam naked in a river with one priest insisted on his sacking. Virtually no country journalists knew of the pedophile priests in their towns or reported it. So why is it Pell, of all these people, who has been grilled for such marathon lengths of time - when he was neither a perpetrator nor a proven protector of pedophiles? You may be still convinced Pell did cover up and is now lying about it. But test yourself, to make sure you are not being unjust to an individual in your fury at his church. Watch my interview with George Pell.Watch my interview with George Pell. Is this the monster you mean? UPDATE Apologies. I had the wrong link to the interview. Watch itherehere. I blame jet lag.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/blogs/andrew-bolt/pell-is-innocent-see--for-yourself/news-story/3ec0d63bc52fa5e64d91d878d99c8033





Edited
4 Months Ago by mouflonrouge
mcjules
mcjules
World Class
World Class (7.6K reputation)World Class (7.6K reputation)World Class (7.6K reputation)World Class (7.6K reputation)World Class (7.6K reputation)World Class (7.6K reputation)World Class (7.6K reputation)World Class (7.6K reputation)World Class (7.6K reputation)World Class (7.6K reputation)World Class (7.6K reputation)

Group: Moderators
Posts: 7.5K, Visits: 0
paulbagzFC - 27 Jul 2017 1:06 PM
Double Yawn.

-PB

Yes but he makes a reasonable point about the validity of the thread staying open.

The topic itself is pretty meh however it's pretty funny when a virtue signaller accuses others of virtue signalling.



localstar
localstar
Semi-Pro
Semi-Pro (1.3K reputation)Semi-Pro (1.3K reputation)Semi-Pro (1.3K reputation)Semi-Pro (1.3K reputation)Semi-Pro (1.3K reputation)Semi-Pro (1.3K reputation)Semi-Pro (1.3K reputation)Semi-Pro (1.3K reputation)Semi-Pro (1.3K reputation)Semi-Pro (1.3K reputation)Semi-Pro (1.3K reputation)

Group: Forum Members
Posts: 1.3K, Visits: 0
Rent an Anti-Papist mob....no worries! Plenty of people in Australia ready to jump on that bandwagon..
mouflonrouge
mouflonrouge
Rising Star
Rising Star (875 reputation)Rising Star (875 reputation)Rising Star (875 reputation)Rising Star (875 reputation)Rising Star (875 reputation)Rising Star (875 reputation)Rising Star (875 reputation)Rising Star (875 reputation)Rising Star (875 reputation)Rising Star (875 reputation)Rising Star (875 reputation)

Group: Forum Members
Posts: 861, Visits: 0
mcjules - 27 Jul 2017 1:50 PM
paulbagzFC - 27 Jul 2017 1:06 PM

Yes but he makes a reasonable point about the validity of the thread staying open.

The topic itself is pretty meh however it's pretty funny when a virtue signaller accuses others of virtue signalling.

Well thank you for keeping the thread open.

But I wish to clarify. There is no virtue signalling from my end. If George Pell is guilty, then let him fall on his sword. I am open to the possibility and would want nothing less if he is in fact guilty. The crimes being alleged are appalling, and I wouldn't want anyone to get away with committing such perverted acts. And as I said, I have no emotional connection with Catholicism at all.

Now, I do not believe he is guilty. He is certainly not behaving like a guilty man. He has come to face the music after all, and he is adamant about clearing his name. That is truly quite amazing. If he was guilty, then I doubt he would have done that.

In addition, I do not believe a senior member of the Catholic Church would cover up and protect other clergy who have committed sinister perverted crimes against other individuals. 

This is however the only way we will get to the truth. The matters will be going to trial and every bit of evidence will be dissected with a sharp scapel. The Media frenzy ends here and now we will learn the facts. :)
Edited
4 Months Ago by mouflonrouge
mouflonrouge
mouflonrouge
Rising Star
Rising Star (875 reputation)Rising Star (875 reputation)Rising Star (875 reputation)Rising Star (875 reputation)Rising Star (875 reputation)Rising Star (875 reputation)Rising Star (875 reputation)Rising Star (875 reputation)Rising Star (875 reputation)Rising Star (875 reputation)Rising Star (875 reputation)

Group: Forum Members
Posts: 861, Visits: 0
localstar - 27 Jul 2017 1:53 PM
Rent an Anti-Papist mob....no worries! Plenty of people in Australia ready to jump on that bandwagon..

Hit the nail. I always considered all the conjecture to be from a "Rent a Crowd"

Apparently, we mustn't send any Christmas cards either in case we offend someone. 
Edited
4 Months Ago by mouflonrouge
Kamaryn
Kamaryn
Pro
Pro (2.5K reputation)Pro (2.5K reputation)Pro (2.5K reputation)Pro (2.5K reputation)Pro (2.5K reputation)Pro (2.5K reputation)Pro (2.5K reputation)Pro (2.5K reputation)Pro (2.5K reputation)Pro (2.5K reputation)Pro (2.5K reputation)

Group: Forum Members
Posts: 2.4K, Visits: 0
I'm no fan of the Roman Catholic church or Pell, (I am a Christian though) yet I am extremely skeptical that he did anything. The amount of false allegations that have come forward about him and proven wrong have made me give him even more benefit of the doubt (as if he wasn't entitled to it already). Furthermore, he was the first Australian Catholic to start doing something about child abuse. It might not have been enough in the eyes of many, but he just doesn't seem to be in the cover-up category, let alone the perpetrator one.



433
433
World Class
World Class (5.5K reputation)World Class (5.5K reputation)World Class (5.5K reputation)World Class (5.5K reputation)World Class (5.5K reputation)World Class (5.5K reputation)World Class (5.5K reputation)World Class (5.5K reputation)World Class (5.5K reputation)World Class (5.5K reputation)World Class (5.5K reputation)

Group: Forum Members
Posts: 5.4K, Visits: 0
If God is all knowing and omnipotent, why does he allow children to be raped by the papacy?
switters
switters
World Class
World Class (5.7K reputation)World Class (5.7K reputation)World Class (5.7K reputation)World Class (5.7K reputation)World Class (5.7K reputation)World Class (5.7K reputation)World Class (5.7K reputation)World Class (5.7K reputation)World Class (5.7K reputation)World Class (5.7K reputation)World Class (5.7K reputation)

Group: Forum Members
Posts: 5.6K, Visits: 0
433 - 27 Jul 2017 9:45 PM
If God is all knowing and omnipotent, why does he allow children to be raped by the papacy?

 Its the same old 'the lord works in mysterious ways' lol
switters
switters
World Class
World Class (5.7K reputation)World Class (5.7K reputation)World Class (5.7K reputation)World Class (5.7K reputation)World Class (5.7K reputation)World Class (5.7K reputation)World Class (5.7K reputation)World Class (5.7K reputation)World Class (5.7K reputation)World Class (5.7K reputation)World Class (5.7K reputation)

Group: Forum Members
Posts: 5.6K, Visits: 0
edit
Edited
4 Months Ago by switters
Kamaryn
Kamaryn
Pro
Pro (2.5K reputation)Pro (2.5K reputation)Pro (2.5K reputation)Pro (2.5K reputation)Pro (2.5K reputation)Pro (2.5K reputation)Pro (2.5K reputation)Pro (2.5K reputation)Pro (2.5K reputation)Pro (2.5K reputation)Pro (2.5K reputation)

Group: Forum Members
Posts: 2.4K, Visits: 0
433 - 27 Jul 2017 9:45 PM
If God is all knowing and omnipotent, why does he allow children to be raped by the papacy?

I feel like the argument about God and evil is a bit of a catch 22.

For those who believe in a god, the existence of suffering and evil is used as an argument against his existence. However, for those who don't believe in a god, then good and evil do not objectively exist and are merely human constructs (or evolutionary byproducts), and so the objection to such great evils are without basis (unless one concedes god as a basis for objective morality, instead of mere subjective ethics). This isn't an answer to your question - merely a point that "the problem of evil" is actually an issue for all world views.

To me personally, this philosophical tension led me to believe there must actually be a god (for I was convinced that evil was real and not subjective). Now this wasn't the only reason I became a believer, but one of many arguments. A comical but helpful expression of this argument is found in the following comic: http://adam4d.com/evil-world/

Edit: Not wanting to have a philosophical debate on here - they rarely are a good use of anyone's time and I don't expect this to be different. Not because of the parties involved, but because of the medium. Internet forums don't allow the nuances that face-to-face conversations have, nor the instantaneous back and forth that allows for clarification and understanding. The reason I replied (against my better judgement) was to hopefully show that no one can claim the problem of evil isn't a concern for their world view, and to show that there are philosophical counter-arguments to this common argument - and in the end, neither side has a winning argument. Now if you want to know what I believe and why, or would like a book/lecture that I'd recommend that captures my view well, feel free to PM me.
Edited
4 Months Ago by Kamaryn
mouflonrouge
mouflonrouge
Rising Star
Rising Star (875 reputation)Rising Star (875 reputation)Rising Star (875 reputation)Rising Star (875 reputation)Rising Star (875 reputation)Rising Star (875 reputation)Rising Star (875 reputation)Rising Star (875 reputation)Rising Star (875 reputation)Rising Star (875 reputation)Rising Star (875 reputation)

Group: Forum Members
Posts: 861, Visits: 0
433 - 27 Jul 2017 9:45 PM
If God is all knowing and omnipotent, why does he allow children to be raped by the papacy?

There are 2 sides to the equation.

There is Good = God, and the is evil = Satan. And according to the Prophecy, Satan will appear in our world as a Man of God. The Wolf in sheep's clothing. 

Just like there is day and there is night. 

The 2 are in constant battle with you.  You are capable of both Good and Evil too. Evil exists everywhere you look. It's easy to find. And humans are capable of a lot of debauchery. All you have to do is look at the War in Syria. That is what evil can do. But if you look for it, you will also find Good, even in Syria. 

And furthermore, God gave man free will. He will not control man. It's your life to live. You can choose to be Good, or evil. But you will be held accountable. And there will be a price to pay. You seem to think God owes us in this life. He doesn't. People will still be poor, miserable, sick and die from Cancer. To us, it seems significant in our world, but to God, it isn't. He will provide something more eternal than this life we know, but he won't help you win the lotto in this life or become rich with earthly possessions and riches. 

Also, the papacy hasn't has not raped any children.

There are allegations of Sexual Abuse made against some priests. Big difference between this and the papacy. And the vast majority of these allegations are about touching. Basically, it is possible for a priest to land himself in hot water for merely hugging a child which use to happen all the time in the old days. These days, no Catholic Priest will dare to even touch a child with a finger because if someone complains, they are in trouble. This is at one end of the scale. Of course there are allegedly far more serious allegations than a mere hug. 

You seem to think that just because someone is a priest, they are not capable of evil. Not true. Priests are NOT God. They are HUMAN and subject to the same weaknesses as the rest of us. Now granted. The vast majority of priests are good and honourable men. But they are not immune from evil. 
Edited
4 Months Ago by mouflonrouge
mouflonrouge
mouflonrouge
Rising Star
Rising Star (875 reputation)Rising Star (875 reputation)Rising Star (875 reputation)Rising Star (875 reputation)Rising Star (875 reputation)Rising Star (875 reputation)Rising Star (875 reputation)Rising Star (875 reputation)Rising Star (875 reputation)Rising Star (875 reputation)Rising Star (875 reputation)

Group: Forum Members
Posts: 861, Visits: 0
Basically, if God was interfering as you seem to imply (he works in mysterious ways) then he would have helped his own Son Jesus Christ in his life. But God, His Father, never clicked his fingers to stop the lashings, the torture, the crown of thorns, the thirst, or His crucifixion. 

But He did click his fingers and resurrect Him from the dead, and then enunciate him to Heaven 3 days after. 

So with all the torture and debauchery he allowed his own Son to be subjected to, then just imagine what trials and tribulations He will subject us to. We will all be subject to many challenges in life. They will build our character and challenge us all in different ways. It's not as easy to just prey and all your woes will be over. It probably won't happen, but He will give you strength to face up to these challenges and hopefully conquer and succeed. 

Babies are sometimes taken to their death from the cot or from birth, some with bad diseases such as Cancer even after a few breaths. Why does He allow that? He allows it because He wants them (their souls) right now. They are the chosen ones. And what we perceive to be misfortune, isn't really a misfortune for them once you know where they will be going. 
Edited
4 Months Ago by mouflonrouge
Muz
Muz
World Class
World Class (6.1K reputation)World Class (6.1K reputation)World Class (6.1K reputation)World Class (6.1K reputation)World Class (6.1K reputation)World Class (6.1K reputation)World Class (6.1K reputation)World Class (6.1K reputation)World Class (6.1K reputation)World Class (6.1K reputation)World Class (6.1K reputation)

Group: Forum Members
Posts: 5.9K, Visits: 0
[quote]
mouflonrouge - 28 Jul 2017 9:11 AM
Basically, if God was interfering as you seem to imply (he works in mysterious ways) then he would have helped his own Son Jesus Christ in his life. But God, His Father, never clicked his fingers to stop the lashings, the torture, the crown of thorns, the thirst, or His crucifixion. 




Member since 2008.

In response to the usual drivel eldorado wrote:
Your antithetical naysaying of contemporary football orthodoxy is sadly all too prevalent within the current philosophical zeitgeist of the Australian football millieu... 


Muz
Muz
World Class
World Class (6.1K reputation)World Class (6.1K reputation)World Class (6.1K reputation)World Class (6.1K reputation)World Class (6.1K reputation)World Class (6.1K reputation)World Class (6.1K reputation)World Class (6.1K reputation)World Class (6.1K reputation)World Class (6.1K reputation)World Class (6.1K reputation)

Group: Forum Members
Posts: 5.9K, Visits: 0
Pretty much this.



Member since 2008.

In response to the usual drivel eldorado wrote:
Your antithetical naysaying of contemporary football orthodoxy is sadly all too prevalent within the current philosophical zeitgeist of the Australian football millieu... 


mouflonrouge
mouflonrouge
Rising Star
Rising Star (875 reputation)Rising Star (875 reputation)Rising Star (875 reputation)Rising Star (875 reputation)Rising Star (875 reputation)Rising Star (875 reputation)Rising Star (875 reputation)Rising Star (875 reputation)Rising Star (875 reputation)Rising Star (875 reputation)Rising Star (875 reputation)

Group: Forum Members
Posts: 861, Visits: 0
Munrubenmuz - 28 Jul 2017 9:45 AM
[quote]
mouflonrouge - 28 Jul 2017 9:11 AM



Mock at your own peril. The last bastion of the scoundrel who has no argument. 
mouflonrouge
mouflonrouge
Rising Star
Rising Star (875 reputation)Rising Star (875 reputation)Rising Star (875 reputation)Rising Star (875 reputation)Rising Star (875 reputation)Rising Star (875 reputation)Rising Star (875 reputation)Rising Star (875 reputation)Rising Star (875 reputation)Rising Star (875 reputation)Rising Star (875 reputation)

Group: Forum Members
Posts: 861, Visits: 0
Munrubenmuz - 28 Jul 2017 9:46 AM
Pretty much this.



No one is forced. Our children are very grateful to be born into such a very rich culture of which religion is a big part but not the only part. Our rituals and customs actually pre-date Christianity and are thousands of years old. 

Our families have direction. Our divorce rates are much lower.

Our suicide rate is the lowest in the world. Australia's is one of the highest! 

Is that a byproduct of a Godless society I ask? I have no doubt that our culture (and religion) has saved thousands of lives who would have otherwise necked themselves in the garden shed. Hence, our mental wellness is superior as a result due to some part at least to our Church. That's because even the loneliest of our congregations, isn't lonely. They have a family. No lonely Christmas or Easter, and always have a shoulder if they need one. 

You guys have no direction as much as you think you do, you just don't. 
Edited
4 Months Ago by mouflonrouge
Muz
Muz
World Class
World Class (6.1K reputation)World Class (6.1K reputation)World Class (6.1K reputation)World Class (6.1K reputation)World Class (6.1K reputation)World Class (6.1K reputation)World Class (6.1K reputation)World Class (6.1K reputation)World Class (6.1K reputation)World Class (6.1K reputation)World Class (6.1K reputation)

Group: Forum Members
Posts: 5.9K, Visits: 0
mouflonrouge - 28 Jul 2017 9:52 AM
Munrubenmuz - 28 Jul 2017 9:46 AM

No one is forced. Our children are very grateful to be born into such a very rich culture of which religion is a big part but not the only part. Our rituals and customs actually pre-date Christianity and are thousands of years old. 

Our families have direction. Our divorce rates are much lower.

Our suicide rate is the lowest in the world. Australia's is one of the highest! 

Is that a byproduct of a Godless society I ask? I have no doubt that our culture (and religion) has saved thousands of lives who would have otherwise necked themselves in the garden shed. Hence, our mental wellness is superior as a result due to some part at least to our Church. That's because even the loneliest of our congregations, isn't lonely. They have a family. No lonely Christmas or Easter, and always have a shoulder if they need one. 

You guys have no direction as much as you think you do, you just don't. 

Your first statement is a straight out lie.

You are the religion you are because culturally that is religion of your people.  Nothing more.

If you were born in Saudi Arabia or Yemen or Qatar there is a 99.9% chance you would be a muslim.

The fact that you can't see that your particular type religiosity is a cultural fluke shows you how deluded you are.

 




Member since 2008.

In response to the usual drivel eldorado wrote:
Your antithetical naysaying of contemporary football orthodoxy is sadly all too prevalent within the current philosophical zeitgeist of the Australian football millieu... 


Muz
Muz
World Class
World Class (6.1K reputation)World Class (6.1K reputation)World Class (6.1K reputation)World Class (6.1K reputation)World Class (6.1K reputation)World Class (6.1K reputation)World Class (6.1K reputation)World Class (6.1K reputation)World Class (6.1K reputation)World Class (6.1K reputation)World Class (6.1K reputation)

Group: Forum Members
Posts: 5.9K, Visits: 0
Kamaryn - 28 Jul 2017 12:40 AM
433 - 27 Jul 2017 9:45 PM

I feel like the argument about God and evil is a bit of a catch 22.

To me personally, this philosophical tension led me to believe there must actually be a god (for I was convinced that evil was real and not subjective). Now this wasn't the only reason I became a believer, but one of many arguments. A comical but helpful expression of this argument is found in the following comic: http://adam4d.com/evil-world/


I read your post and I read the comic strip. (I appreciate your candour and non evangelzing style.  Unlike the other peanut.)

'If there is no God then what we know as 'morality' is nothing but a biological adaption aiding us in our struggle for survival. It has no foundation; It's an entirely-subjective product of evolution with no meaning whatsoever beyond prolonging the existence of our species.'

This is exactly what I believe to be true. The proof of the above is that 'morality' is constantly evolving and never constant. What was acceptable centuries or decades ago is no longer acceptable or vice versa.

The bible and evangelical adherents would have you believe the opposite.

Take slavery for example, or gay marriage, or inter-racial relationships, or women as property or chattels or the concept of purgatory or 'limbo' or the right to vote or be counted as people and not fauna. All of these beliefs have evolved over time. The inherent 'morality' of any of those positions you hold regards the above are purely subjective.  (And always will be.)



As for the other arguments and in the same vein 'Evil' is a completely human construct.

What is 'Natural' is anything that 'nature' permits.

Murder is perfectly natural in a natural world. It happens a million times a day in the natural world. (Including in primate groups.) You will never see a headline in the paper that says 'shark murders penguin'.

It just is. It is neither evil nor good. It is nature.

The fact that we see murder or anything else as 'evil' or 'good' are human distinctions due to a quirk in our collective consciousnesses. We are 98% chimpanzee after all.

The fact that we see 'murder' as bad is probably a good thing but even that has it's own distinctions and caveats.  Take the death penalty for example.  Our morality (or some peoples versions of morality) say murder is bad in one setting but not another'.  That's a human distinction and it differs from society to society.

God really is Santa Claus for adults.






Member since 2008.

In response to the usual drivel eldorado wrote:
Your antithetical naysaying of contemporary football orthodoxy is sadly all too prevalent within the current philosophical zeitgeist of the Australian football millieu... 


Edited
4 Months Ago by Munrubenmuz
mouflonrouge
mouflonrouge
Rising Star
Rising Star (875 reputation)Rising Star (875 reputation)Rising Star (875 reputation)Rising Star (875 reputation)Rising Star (875 reputation)Rising Star (875 reputation)Rising Star (875 reputation)Rising Star (875 reputation)Rising Star (875 reputation)Rising Star (875 reputation)Rising Star (875 reputation)

Group: Forum Members
Posts: 861, Visits: 0
Munrubenmuz - 28 Jul 2017 10:12 AM
mouflonrouge - 28 Jul 2017 9:52 AM

Your first statement is a straight out lie.

You are the religion you are because culturally that is religion of your people.  Nothing more.

If you were born in Saudi Arabia or Yemen or Qatar there is a 99.9% chance you would be a muslim.

The fact that you can't see that your particular type religiosity is a cultural fluke shows you how deluded you are.

 



I think you are confused.

Our religion is our culture. Like the Aborigines and their Dreaming. Like the Jews and Judaism. We are who we are because of our religion. It's OUR identity. 

Our religion has helped us survive persecution, wars and genocide. It's given us the strength to survive.

And to this day, it gives us the strength to stick by our families, not divorce over stupid arguments and silly things, raise our children and have the lowest suicide rate. It gives us direction and meaning. 


Edited
4 Months Ago by mouflonrouge
GO


Select a Forum....























Inside Sport


Search