Lets all agree on one thing FFA in its current format is not servicing the needs of Australian Footballs potential to anywhere near where it should.

Lets not get bogged down into why and what is wrong with our current model.

What most want, is an expanded A-League independently run, a second division, P & R within a reasonable timeframe. Again lets not put dates and numbers lets accept the concept of an independent league with a second division and in time P & R.

To this end I read with some interest from NZ media, the article and statements by the Nix’s owners essentially saying metrics are a FFA invention and they should stay.  Stay meaning forever is how the article reads.

If this is the common thoughts and feeling of all the owners, which if you read some of the releases it does seem to be what they think.

How do we prevent an independent Hal coping an MLS structure as opposed to an EPL structure? Both models have the clubs running and controlling the competition.

The huge difference the MLS model is a closed franchise model almost identical to what we have now except the clubs control it where as we have our governing body controlling it. Also to the best of my knowledge no funding the MLS receives is passed on to lower levels of USA Football.  

Do we each write to the State Feds or email them saying as fans we don’t want to swap one closed franchise model for a similar model with different people in charge.

Opps and sorry Topic should read How to Prevent a MLS Model...

Can a mod change I can't

Vote with your feet - stop turning up to games and stop buying memberships. Go to your local club and support them instead.

Losing money is the only language these idiots will ever understand.

“Also to the best of my knowledge no funding the MLS receives is passed on to lower levels of USA Football“ ...

why should it? It’s the same in Australia, why should any money the A League raises pass to the lower levels?? It shouldn’t.

We in Brisbane have done that. It will be interesting with the new pro-active Aloisi in charge to see how this pans out in October. The last thing the FFA or the Clubs want is to actually hear the voices of the fans. Too distracting for them.

Waz

I don't think we will ever get close to an agreement on this..... but the professional game sits inside a much large structure and gets benefits from that structure ... I think for the greater benefit of the game revenue should be spread ... the % is open for debate not the concept as I see it... 

Step 1/ Remove FFA
Step 2/ Do not use Australian sports administrators ever as they have long been sold on the American model
Step 3/ Buy in external expertise, ideally those who helped launch the J League or K League

However, in England there is a fixed percentage of revenue that is passed from an EPL club to a minnow if one of their stars is sold on for a motza. When we were in northern England in 2016 we were shown a sports field where one of the Arsenal starlets had started his career. He had just been sold on, and his home town club was in line for a 100K pay cheque. There are ways and means of the money floating down to where its needed!

@ Midfielder - okay, the amateur games raises about 2x the professional game in revenues each year, something like $300m in rego fees vs $80m for the HAL.

How much do you propose we take off the larger Amateur game to give to the smaller professional game?

@ Footballkingz

I’d be happy if say 9% of certain income (tv, sponsorship) went to the FFA each year, a similar amount to the rego retention

I think that's how it works in most leagues - a set percentage of cash is set aside for the governing body (figures like 10%-15% are fairly typical iirc) as a contribution to the grassroots & national teams. Obviously any revenue generated by the national teams (including World Cup cash) would be kept by the governing body.

If transfer fees existed I would agree with you.

Why why why why do you insist on the final solution rather than the concept... I have no F idea how much ... we need or someone needs to make a reasonable judgement... 

Many countries have such structures in Germany Div 1 & 2 each club provides a % of their total revenue to the governing body for  the national teams, grass roots and lower divisions .... so a % of sponsorship, crowd, media, shirt sales etc.... its not uncommon ...

most clubs don't get rewarded for developing youth, they only get more money by winning... this means they spend the money on winning.. buying players to win the league and some how turn a profit. If the a-league clubs were forced to used transfer fee's, you would see the youth players going overseas would get a substantial bump in their value and that flows through to the club who should have the option of passing it down to the youth if need be(clubs should be encouraged by FFA to do this and help grow grass roots)

Most long term fans I've met want to see young Aussie talent coming through.. not guys over 35 trying to keep up. 

We will not be able to convince people to go to games in the current format... we need to differentiate from the other codes by having a transfer window... this creates so much hype and helps grow the league. We just don't have the numbers to follow the MLS model.  

Bingo - the stories write themselves!

'Melbourne City pondering over whether to break the bank for player X'

'Central Coast demand $750k for starlet's signature'

'4 clubs in bid for out of contract player Y'

or merge the 2

FULL PYRAMID NOW

If you can't help but worry about 'hype'  and 'marketing' so be it

P&R is the 'Point-of-difference' football has but the FFA refuse to see it

FFA's marketing arm (if it exists) and their Marketing Consultants must Scream to themselves that it's not an option.

P&R writes bucketloads of media content with not a single Ewok

@ Midfielder

We have debated for years and years now. You’ve always defended the FFA, I’ve always attacked and opposed them.

The ffa have no place in the running of football leagues in this (any) country, that should be left up to the clubs. The ffa should provide referees, independent disciplinary panels, national team structures, coaching development, international and government relations.

The ffa can fund all that out of their own tv money (the deal with FIFAs agent for $1m/game is way better than they had before) revenues from home games, sponsorship, fifa funding, government grants, registration fees, and fee-for-service eg charging for referees and disciplinary hearings.

If that isn’t enough. Cut costs.

The A League should fund itself and clubs live and die by their own finances. They should decide how many clubs there should be in the HAL and keep all their revenues and distribute them as they see fit.

The HAL should be open to pro/rel to a second division which could/should fund itself, and I’m okay with parachute payments for relegated teams.

Below that the pyramid should be opened up. That’s proving a painful exercise in some states.

The FFA do NOT need to keep any money from the HAL (other than registration fees, charges for referees, disciplinary costs, and other fees for service). Lowy is selling a lie when he says they do.

Carry out word find /swap and insert EPL Model. The most likely to be adopted?

The J League underwent 17 years of instability and re-formatting before current model which means the A League still have a couple of seasons before a re-structure. The K League is dying a death of slow strangulation as the government stops giving enormous tax benefits to the corporate giants it asked to set up teams to entertain the masses. the K League started with 5 clubs and got to 16 clubs before dropping back to 12 in the top tier. The K league took 30 years to develop a limited system of pro/rel between the two top tiers.
But yeah. Let's get the guys who started that.

Waz

Thats simply not true I have always defend FFA ... is that the best you can come up with... my reasoning has always been replace with better not with the same... 

FFS for years now I have been calling for a 16 team competition and an independently run Hal .... so how is that in anyway different to what you want ..

Further I have said we need a second division and P & R when we are ready for it ... even those in charge of setting up the second division say 2024 is the earliest they can be ready but more than likely a td further out ... again how is that different from what you want ..

What I do say the idea of everything FFA have done is wrong is crazy .. this is obviously different to how you feel so we will never agree ... but my experience in both life and business is not everything is normally wrong ....

Back on point many leagues around the world fund their governing body ..... 

FFA's revenue comes from sponsorship, finals, socceroo games, plus AFC I think one million per away game for socceroo's.  Plus government money we hope...

So we can take two different points of view one we can stave FFA of money and hope we can create development pathways player identification, and run national teams on the smell of an oily rag.....   or we can fund them ...

We run 9 national sides playing roughly 90 matches per year ... do some sums on what that costs ... FFA lost its ability to sell the Socceroo's to the media.  Previously their main source of revenue... 

You need to separate who currently runs FFA and what we want FFA to be..... I think the German League both Div 1 & 2 allocate 20% of their total revenue to the Germany governing body ... I think its 20% I read it some time back...

Can be added to and not cost applied but this is what I think is needed to run 9 national teams and that leaves out Futsual 

Assume squad sizes of 23 per game, Head coach, assistant coach, goal keeping coach, doctor, manager. That’s a 23 players and five officials so 28 people.  Assume 7 days for training and match.

Cost	Detail		Cost
Airfares	90 games * 28 pep * 2 H & A	5, 040 air fares
Accomm	90 games * 28 pep * 7 days	17, 640 beds
Meals	90 g * 28 pep, 7 days, 3 meals	52,920 meals
Coaches	9 Head, 9 Assistant, 9 Keeper
Doctor
Manager
Salaries	For senior teams
Allowances	Daily allowances for junior players
Scouts	Player identification
Scouts	What other teams are like
		COST

The Premier League is a private company wholly owned by its 20 Member Clubs who make up the League at any one time.

Each individual club is independent, working within the rules of football, as defined by the Premier League, The FA, UEFA and FIFA, as well being subject to English and European law.

Each of the 20 clubs are a Shareholder in the Premier League. Consultation is at the heart of the Premier League and Shareholder meetings are the ultimate decision-making forum for Premier League policy and are held at regular intervals during the course of the season.

The Premier League AGM takes place at the close of each season, at which time the relegated clubs transfer their shares to the clubs promoted into the Premier League from the Football League Championship.

Clubs have the opportunity to propose new rules or amendments at the Shareholder meeting. Each Member Club is entitled to one vote and all rule changes and major commercial contracts require the support of at least a two-thirds vote, or 14 clubs, to be agreed.

The Premier League Rule Book serves as a contract between the League, the Member Clubs and one another, defining the structure and running of the competition.

Any serious breach of the Rule Book results in an independent three-person tribunal sitting to hear the case, ascertain guilt and set the punishment, which can range from fines to points deductions and, in extreme cases, expulsion from the competition (this has never happened in the history of the Premier League)
The FA takes a fee I believe and runs The championship down including womens, club, grass roots etc  A small version of ths would suit Australia

LOL

Back on topic

How do we go about stopping an MLS type model being set up by the clubs instead of a say European model with various divisions and P & R.

. 

@ Blew.2

The FA don’t run the English championship. That’s run by the English Football League (EFL) which is independent of the FA.

My understanding is that most of the clubs are in favour of P & R, including the Mariners. So not sure why you think clubs are looking to implement an MLS model. We are already an MLS model.

Mid

We are always going to disagree. You keep trying to find ways to justify the FFA getting their hands on other people’s money. Look at what they get over a given 4 year cycle between world cups:

Registrations = $50m+ ($20 per rego?)
FIFA grant = $12m?
TV Money = $6m (away games)
Home games = $6m
Sponsorship = $8m

There’ll be other stuff as as they get grants from AFC and other tournament distribution well but that lot totals $82m+ depending on the Regos.

That’s at least $20m/year which is $2m EACH to run those 9 sides you mention and $2m to run the FFA’s overheads.

That’s more than enough.

@ RBB

Mid can’t see that. His primary concern is FFA funding not the actual model