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mcjules
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Sums it all up perfectly.
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sub007
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Shows that people follow politics as if they're following a sports team. Some people who post in this thread come to mind.
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Test_Fan
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Is that real or satire?
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Muz
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It's real. I live in a regional electorate in NSW. It's been a National Party seat for, I think, something like 97 years. (Prior to the nats they were the CLP.) We have one of the highest rates of unemployment in NSW, the worst health outcomes across several measures, poor high school finishing rates, one of the lowest incomes per LGA and yet they've just been reelected in both the NSW and Federal parliament. I honestly think that unless the local bloke was caught kiddy fiddling in the local botanical gardens on CCTV they will never elect anyone else. Whatever party you vote for, and I'd say the same if a Labour bloke was in, it's not good to have a local member, or party, in the one seat for decades on end. If for no other reason than the selfish one of being in a marginal seat means you get money thrown at you.
Member since 2008.
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rusty
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+x+x+xLNP actually stopped the boats. Hardly anyone in detention centers and no new arrivals. Those who are still there might as well leave now desoite being encouraged by the left wing activists to stay and cause maximum disturbance and havoc and also resulting in the "suicide attempts". I remember very clearly when under Labor and the Greens detention centres were packed to the rafters with asylum seekers, tens of thousands of them, yet there was very little commotion from the Left about this. It was only after they lost government, and detention centres started closing, that all of a sudden this concept of detaining people became some great act of inhumanity and cruelty. This was most poignant when that chap got bashed by PNG locals and died, and the subsequent confected public outrage , candlelight vigils, crocodile tears and protests against the government. Yet these very same people were deadly silent when thousands were dying and tens of thousands locked up. I guess what I learnt is that the left interpret ethics and morality differently depending on who is in government. 10's of thousands Russ? All at once? Seems a tad exaggerated. (Not disagreeing with anything else you're saying but you don't do yourself any favours when you make ridiculous claims.) Not exaggerating at all mate
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Burztur
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That can’t be legit
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Muz
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+x+x+x+xLNP actually stopped the boats. Hardly anyone in detention centers and no new arrivals. Those who are still there might as well leave now desoite being encouraged by the left wing activists to stay and cause maximum disturbance and havoc and also resulting in the "suicide attempts". I remember very clearly when under Labor and the Greens detention centres were packed to the rafters with asylum seekers, tens of thousands of them, yet there was very little commotion from the Left about this. It was only after they lost government, and detention centres started closing, that all of a sudden this concept of detaining people became some great act of inhumanity and cruelty. This was most poignant when that chap got bashed by PNG locals and died, and the subsequent confected public outrage , candlelight vigils, crocodile tears and protests against the government. Yet these very same people were deadly silent when thousands were dying and tens of thousands locked up. I guess what I learnt is that the left interpret ethics and morality differently depending on who is in government. 10's of thousands Russ? All at once? Seems a tad exaggerated. (Not disagreeing with anything else you're saying but you don't do yourself any favours when you make ridiculous claims.) Not exaggerating at all mate You are Russ.
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rusty
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+xShows that people follow politics as if they're following a sports team. Some people who post in this thread come to mind. I actually didn’t put Libs down as my first preference
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rusty
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+x+x+x+x+xLNP actually stopped the boats. Hardly anyone in detention centers and no new arrivals. Those who are still there might as well leave now desoite being encouraged by the left wing activists to stay and cause maximum disturbance and havoc and also resulting in the "suicide attempts". I remember very clearly when under Labor and the Greens detention centres were packed to the rafters with asylum seekers, tens of thousands of them, yet there was very little commotion from the Left about this. It was only after they lost government, and detention centres started closing, that all of a sudden this concept of detaining people became some great act of inhumanity and cruelty. This was most poignant when that chap got bashed by PNG locals and died, and the subsequent confected public outrage , candlelight vigils, crocodile tears and protests against the government. Yet these very same people were deadly silent when thousands were dying and tens of thousands locked up. I guess what I learnt is that the left interpret ethics and morality differently depending on who is in government. 10's of thousands Russ? All at once? Seems a tad exaggerated. (Not disagreeing with anything else you're saying but you don't do yourself any favours when you make ridiculous claims.) Not exaggerating at all mate You are Russ. Nah I’m not. Over 8,000 children were detained by Labor/Greens. No one gave a shit when they were in power though.
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Burztur
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Agree Muz. Democracy works best when you have the best of each side pushing each other for better policies. If the incumbent just defaults in, there is stagnation.
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sub007
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+x+xShows that people follow politics as if they're following a sports team. Some people who post in this thread come to mind. I actually didn’t put Libs down as my first preference Who was then? One Nation?
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sub007
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Group: Forum Members
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+x+x+x+x+x+xLNP actually stopped the boats. Hardly anyone in detention centers and no new arrivals. Those who are still there might as well leave now desoite being encouraged by the left wing activists to stay and cause maximum disturbance and havoc and also resulting in the "suicide attempts". I remember very clearly when under Labor and the Greens detention centres were packed to the rafters with asylum seekers, tens of thousands of them, yet there was very little commotion from the Left about this. It was only after they lost government, and detention centres started closing, that all of a sudden this concept of detaining people became some great act of inhumanity and cruelty. This was most poignant when that chap got bashed by PNG locals and died, and the subsequent confected public outrage , candlelight vigils, crocodile tears and protests against the government. Yet these very same people were deadly silent when thousands were dying and tens of thousands locked up. I guess what I learnt is that the left interpret ethics and morality differently depending on who is in government. 10's of thousands Russ? All at once? Seems a tad exaggerated. (Not disagreeing with anything else you're saying but you don't do yourself any favours when you make ridiculous claims.) Not exaggerating at all mate You are Russ. Nah I’m not. Over 8,000 children were detained by Labor/Greens. No one gave a shit when they were in power though. Source?
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mouflonrouge
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+xSo like I was saying the debt doubled under the Liberals and they seem to be getting a free pass. Good that they have plans to reduce it but it's odd they don't get any grief about it. Yes because you can't just raise taxes in one foul swoop to reign it in. I even recall the last budget Abbott game and according to his projections, they were only going to come out of deficit by 2021. They are actually 1 year ahead of schedule. But don't pretend that it was the LNP responsible.
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Muz
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+xLNP actually stopped the boats. Hardly anyone in detention centers and no new arrivals. Those who are still there might as well leave now desoite being encouraged by the left wing activists to stay and cause maximum disturbance and havoc and also resulting in the "suicide attempts". I remember very clearly when under Labor and the Greens detention centres were packed to the rafters with asylum seekers, tens of thousands of them, yet there was very little commotion from the Left about this. It was only after they lost government, and detention centres started closing, that all of a sudden this concept of detaining people became some great act of inhumanity and cruelty. This was most poignant when that chap got bashed by PNG locals and died, and the subsequent confected public outrage , candlelight vigils, crocodile tears and protests against the government. Yet these very same people were deadly silent when thousands were dying and tens of thousands locked up. I guess what I learnt is that the left interpret ethics and morality differently depending on who is in government. 10's of thousands Russ? All at once? Seems a tad exaggerated. (Not disagreeing with anything else you're saying but you don't do yourself any favours when you make ridiculous claims.) Not exaggerating at all mate You are Russ. Nah I’m not. Over 8,000 children were detained by Labor/Greens. No one gave a shit when they were in power though. Source? It's possible but Russ was intimating that there were 10's of thousands all at once when there never was. But whatever the real numbers something like 1200+ died at sea under Labour which is magnitudes of orders higher than any that died under the Libs. When the numbers are so already high and one-sided there's no need to pull numbers out of your arse like Russ does.
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mcjules
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xLNP actually stopped the boats. Hardly anyone in detention centers and no new arrivals. Those who are still there might as well leave now desoite being encouraged by the left wing activists to stay and cause maximum disturbance and havoc and also resulting in the "suicide attempts". I remember very clearly when under Labor and the Greens detention centres were packed to the rafters with asylum seekers, tens of thousands of them, yet there was very little commotion from the Left about this. It was only after they lost government, and detention centres started closing, that all of a sudden this concept of detaining people became some great act of inhumanity and cruelty. This was most poignant when that chap got bashed by PNG locals and died, and the subsequent confected public outrage , candlelight vigils, crocodile tears and protests against the government. Yet these very same people were deadly silent when thousands were dying and tens of thousands locked up. I guess what I learnt is that the left interpret ethics and morality differently depending on who is in government. 10's of thousands Russ? All at once? Seems a tad exaggerated. (Not disagreeing with anything else you're saying but you don't do yourself any favours when you make ridiculous claims.) Not exaggerating at all mate You are Russ. Nah I’m not. Over 8,000 children were detained by Labor/Greens. No one gave a shit when they were in power though. Source? It's possible but Russ was intimating that there were 10's of thousands all at once when there never was. But whatever the real numbers something like 1200+ died at sea under Labour which is magnitudes of orders higher than any that died under the Libs. When the numbers are so already high and one-sided there's no need to pull numbers out of your arse like Russ does. Do you agree that to stop boat arrivals we needed to go to the extremes the government has with the detention of those asylum seekers?
Insert Gertjan Verbeek gifs here
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mouflonrouge
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+xLNP actually stopped the boats. Hardly anyone in detention centers and no new arrivals. Those who are still there might as well leave now desoite being encouraged by the left wing activists to stay and cause maximum disturbance and havoc and also resulting in the "suicide attempts". I remember very clearly when under Labor and the Greens detention centres were packed to the rafters with asylum seekers, tens of thousands of them, yet there was very little commotion from the Left about this. It was only after they lost government, and detention centres started closing, that all of a sudden this concept of detaining people became some great act of inhumanity and cruelty. This was most poignant when that chap got bashed by PNG locals and died, and the subsequent confected public outrage , candlelight vigils, crocodile tears and protests against the government. Yet these very same people were deadly silent when thousands were dying and tens of thousands locked up. I guess what I learnt is that the left interpret ethics and morality differently depending on who is in government. 10's of thousands Russ? All at once? Seems a tad exaggerated. (Not disagreeing with anything else you're saying but you don't do yourself any favours when you make ridiculous claims.) Not exaggerating at all mate You are Russ. Nah I’m not. Over 8,000 children were detained by Labor/Greens. No one gave a shit when they were in power though. Source? According to the Immigration Department, as of February 2011, there are currently 5,061 men, 571 women and 1,027 children under 18 living in detention. [29] The Sydney Morning Herald reports that 382 of those under 18 arrived without their parents. https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Immigration_detention_in_Australia#/Gillard_Government_(2010%E2%80%932013)) https://www.homeaffairs.gov.au/research-and-stats/files/immigration-detention-statistics-20130131.pdfAll the statistics can be found here year by year. https://www.homeaffairs.gov.au/research-and-statistics/statistics/visa-statistics/live/immigration-detention
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Muz
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So like I was saying the Libs went on a spending spree and doubled the debt and seem to get off Scott free. Can someone please explain why? As for raising taxes and 'being always higher under Labour'. Pesky facts and all that. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-05-02/fact-check-is-tax-to-gdp-lower-now-than-howard-years/9705324https://public.tableau.com/views/TaxtoGDP/TaxtoGDP?:embed=y&:display_count=no&:origin=viz_share_link
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rusty
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x[quote]LNP actually stopped the boats. Hardly anyone in detention centers and no new arrivals. Those who are still there might as well leave now desoite being encouraged by the left wing activists to stay and cause maximum disturbance and havoc and also resulting in the "suicide attempts". I remember very clearly when under Labor and the Greens detention centres were packed to the rafters with asylum seekers, tens of thousands of them, yet there was very little commotion from the Left about this. It was only after they lost government, and detention centres started closing, that all of a sudden this concept of detaining people became some great act of inhumanity and cruelty. This was most poignant when that chap got bashed by PNG locals and died, and the subsequent confected public outrage , candlelight vigils, crocodile tears and protests against the government. Yet these very same people were deadly silent when thousands were dying and tens of thousands locked up. I guess what I learnt is that the left interpret ethics and morality differently depending on who is in government. 10's of thousands Russ? All at once? Seems a tad exaggerated. (Not disagreeing with anything else you're saying but you don't do yourself any favours when you make ridiculous claims.) Not exaggerating at all mate You are Russ. Nah I’m not. Over 8,000 children were detained by Labor/Greens. No one gave a shit when they were in power though. Source? https://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliament/Parliamentary_Departments/Parliamentary_Library/pubs/BN/2012-2013/Detention#_Toc351535453Immigration detainees 2012 = 19,376
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Muz
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xLNP actually stopped the boats. Hardly anyone in detention centers and no new arrivals. Those who are still there might as well leave now desoite being encouraged by the left wing activists to stay and cause maximum disturbance and havoc and also resulting in the "suicide attempts". I remember very clearly when under Labor and the Greens detention centres were packed to the rafters with asylum seekers, tens of thousands of them, yet there was very little commotion from the Left about this. It was only after they lost government, and detention centres started closing, that all of a sudden this concept of detaining people became some great act of inhumanity and cruelty. This was most poignant when that chap got bashed by PNG locals and died, and the subsequent confected public outrage , candlelight vigils, crocodile tears and protests against the government. Yet these very same people were deadly silent when thousands were dying and tens of thousands locked up. I guess what I learnt is that the left interpret ethics and morality differently depending on who is in government. 10's of thousands Russ? All at once? Seems a tad exaggerated. (Not disagreeing with anything else you're saying but you don't do yourself any favours when you make ridiculous claims.) Not exaggerating at all mate You are Russ. Nah I’m not. Over 8,000 children were detained by Labor/Greens. No one gave a shit when they were in power though. Source? It's possible but Russ was intimating that there were 10's of thousands all at once when there never was. But whatever the real numbers something like 1200+ died at sea under Labour which is magnitudes of orders higher than any that died under the Libs. When the numbers are so already high and one-sided there's no need to pull numbers out of your arse like Russ does. Do you agree that to stop boat arrivals we needed to go to the extremes the government has with the detention of those asylum seekers? It's a tricky one. Yes because they stopped people trafficking stone cold dead . (No pun intended.) No doubt saving hundreds if not thousands of deaths at sea. No because it's cruel and inhumane to keep people locked up for years on end without any resolution. They need to move those people out ASAP. And we need to stop outsourcing our refugee 'policy' to 3rd world countries. Let's resettle them somewhere and lets do it quickly.
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mouflonrouge
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No they didn't go on a spending spree actually. They starting to reduce spending and even raised taxes to reign in the budget. There was only one generous budget and that was Turnbull's just before the last election. But then they started cutting costs again and again. Every budget was taking another inch by raising revenue and cutting costs. Their target was 2021 and they seem to be achieving their target by 2020.
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rusty
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The fact is most of the debt is spending locked in by Labor intiatives. Spending and debt skyrocketed under Labor I think at one point we were the highest in the world for rate of spending and debt relative to GDF. The path back to surplus has been slow and steady but all you can really say is the Libs doubled Labor’s debt, not their own.
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Muz
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Can someone help me out with some basic maths please. I owe the bank $1000.00. Every year I get $1000 in income. Every year I spend $1333.33 After 3 years I owe the bank $2000.00. WTF! Can someone please explain to me what has just happened? I must be a bit thick because despite all evidence to the contrary I'm supposed to be better at managing my money than the other bloke.
Member since 2008.
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Muz
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x[quote]+x[quote]LNP actually stopped the boats. Hardly anyone in detention centers and no new arrivals. Those who are still there might as well leave now desoite being encouraged by the left wing activists to stay and cause maximum disturbance and havoc and also resulting in the "suicide attempts". I remember very clearly when under Labor and the Greens detention centres were packed to the rafters with asylum seekers, tens of thousands of them, yet there was very little commotion from the Left about this. It was only after they lost government, and detention centres started closing, that all of a sudden this concept of detaining people became some great act of inhumanity and cruelty. This was most poignant when that chap got bashed by PNG locals and died, and the subsequent confected public outrage , candlelight vigils, crocodile tears and protests against the government. Yet these very same people were deadly silent when thousands were dying and tens of thousands locked up. I guess what I learnt is that the left interpret ethics and morality differently depending on who is in government. 10's of thousands Russ? All at once? Seems a tad exaggerated. (Not disagreeing with anything else you're saying but you don't do yourself any favours when you make ridiculous claims.) Not exaggerating at all mate You are Russ. Nah I’m not. Over 8,000 children were detained by Labor/Greens. No one gave a shit when they were in power though. Source? Immigration detainees 2012 = 19,376 Yeah we'll have to call that a draw. Not quite 10's of thousands (more than 10, < 20) but definitely higher than I thought initially.
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Muz
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+xThe fact is most of the debt is spending locked in by Labor intiatives. Spending and debt skyrocketed under Labor I think at one point we were the highest in the world for rate of spending and debt relative to GDF. The path back to surplus has been slow and steady but all you can really say is the Libs doubled Labor’s debt, not their own. We were nowhere near the highest debt to GDP. I think we were around the 25 to 30% mark when other countries in the OECD were well North of 60, 70, 80%. Countries like Greece which are a basket case were something like 140% Here. http://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/countries-by-national-debt/and here https://www.gfmag.com/global-data/economic-data/public-debt-percentage-gdp (In this one you can see it actually trending up under a Liberal government.) and here. https://tradingeconomics.com/country-list/government-debt-to-gdpI know exactly what you're going to say next Russ. 'Yeah, well it was trending up to pay for Labour's profligate spending' blah blah. I've rarely met anyone less likely to concede a sliver of a millimetre in an argument as you. (Even when presented with facts that are undeniable.) I mean just this for starters. It's an outright lie and as the links show easily disproven. Spending and debt skyrocketed under Labor I think at one point we were the highest in the world for rate of spending and debt relative to GDF
Member since 2008.
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rusty
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xLNP actually stopped the boats. Hardly anyone in detention centers and no new arrivals. Those who are still there might as well leave now desoite being encouraged by the left wing activists to stay and cause maximum disturbance and havoc and also resulting in the "suicide attempts". I remember very clearly when under Labor and the Greens detention centres were packed to the rafters with asylum seekers, tens of thousands of them, yet there was very little commotion from the Left about this. It was only after they lost government, and detention centres started closing, that all of a sudden this concept of detaining people became some great act of inhumanity and cruelty. This was most poignant when that chap got bashed by PNG locals and died, and the subsequent confected public outrage , candlelight vigils, crocodile tears and protests against the government. Yet these very same people were deadly silent when thousands were dying and tens of thousands locked up. I guess what I learnt is that the left interpret ethics and morality differently depending on who is in government. 10's of thousands Russ? All at once? Seems a tad exaggerated. (Not disagreeing with anything else you're saying but you don't do yourself any favours when you make ridiculous claims.) Not exaggerating at all mate You are Russ. Nah I’m not. Over 8,000 children were detained by Labor/Greens. No one gave a shit when they were in power though. Source? It's possible but Russ was intimating that there were 10's of thousands all at once when there never was. But whatever the real numbers something like 1200+ died at sea under Labour which is magnitudes of orders higher than any that died under the Libs. When the numbers are so already high and one-sided there's no need to pull numbers out of your arse like Russ does. Do you agree that to stop boat arrivals we needed to go to the extremes the government has with the detention of those asylum seekers? It's a tricky one. Yes because they stopped people trafficking stone cold dead . (No pun intended.) No doubt saving hundreds if not thousands of deaths at sea. No because it's cruel and inhumane to keep people locked up for years on end without any resolution. They need to move those people out ASAP. And we need to stop outsourcing our refugee 'policy' to 3rd world countries. Let's resettle them somewhere and lets do it quickly. I don’t think Manus and Nauru is anywhere near as bad as the media and left makes out. The conditions are far better than UNHCR run refugee camps, these people have full time access to food, water, accomodation, medical facilities and at least in Nauru they can come and go as they please, start businesses and mingle among the community. Their quality of life would be better than millions across the 3rd world for whom access to clean drinking water is a struggle. I won’t say that these conditions are on par with Club Med but I think the notion that these places are mental illness factories where everyone wants to neck themselves is just devious lefty rhetoric trying to dismantle the governments policy.
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rusty
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I didn’t say highest GDP, I said rate of increase. In relation to those figures, if you analyse them more carefully you will see that debt gdp remained consistent until 2016 and has flatlined since. The fact is the government has gotten us back to surplus, and a sustainable expenditure path going forward. There isn’t an ex Labor PM alive today who delivered a surplus.
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Muz
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+xI didn’t say highest GDP, I said rate of increase. In relation to those figures, if you analyse them more carefully you will see that debt gdp remained consistent until 2016 and has flatlined since. The fact is the government has gotten us back to surplus, and a sustainable expenditure path going forward. There isn’t an ex Labor PM alive today who delivered a surplus. Let's see exactly what you said. Rusty said: Spending and debt skyrocketed under Labor I think at one point we were the highest in the world for rate of spending and debt relative to GDF. I assume you meant GDP as there's no such thing as GDF but in any case you presented 2 distinct claims separated by a conjunction. The facts are debt relative to GDP was higher under the libs. Not only that taxes as a percentage of GDP were higher under the libs. I mean shift the goalposts around as much as you want but all that does is show you up as a disingenuous debater. Much like another clown on here. I'd have far more respect for you if you occasionally conceded a point or even a sliver of a point when you're faced with incontrovertible evidence. .
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mcjules
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xLNP actually stopped the boats. Hardly anyone in detention centers and no new arrivals. Those who are still there might as well leave now desoite being encouraged by the left wing activists to stay and cause maximum disturbance and havoc and also resulting in the "suicide attempts". I remember very clearly when under Labor and the Greens detention centres were packed to the rafters with asylum seekers, tens of thousands of them, yet there was very little commotion from the Left about this. It was only after they lost government, and detention centres started closing, that all of a sudden this concept of detaining people became some great act of inhumanity and cruelty. This was most poignant when that chap got bashed by PNG locals and died, and the subsequent confected public outrage , candlelight vigils, crocodile tears and protests against the government. Yet these very same people were deadly silent when thousands were dying and tens of thousands locked up. I guess what I learnt is that the left interpret ethics and morality differently depending on who is in government. 10's of thousands Russ? All at once? Seems a tad exaggerated. (Not disagreeing with anything else you're saying but you don't do yourself any favours when you make ridiculous claims.) Not exaggerating at all mate You are Russ. Nah I’m not. Over 8,000 children were detained by Labor/Greens. No one gave a shit when they were in power though. Source? It's possible but Russ was intimating that there were 10's of thousands all at once when there never was. But whatever the real numbers something like 1200+ died at sea under Labour which is magnitudes of orders higher than any that died under the Libs. When the numbers are so already high and one-sided there's no need to pull numbers out of your arse like Russ does. Do you agree that to stop boat arrivals we needed to go to the extremes the government has with the detention of those asylum seekers? It's a tricky one. Yes because they stopped people trafficking stone cold dead . (No pun intended.) No doubt saving hundreds if not thousands of deaths at sea. No because it's cruel and inhumane to keep people locked up for years on end without any resolution. They need to move those people out ASAP. And we need to stop outsourcing our refugee 'policy' to 3rd world countries. Let's resettle them somewhere and lets do it quickly. Ok. I don't accept that the centres do much to deter the boats. The turn backs are really the only part of the policy that has done anything. Agree that it has to happen quickly. There are daily reports of self harm at the moment.
Insert Gertjan Verbeek gifs here
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Muz
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+xI didn’t say highest GDP, I said rate of increase. In relation to those figures, if you analyse them more carefully you will see that debt gdp remained consistent until 2016 and has flatlined since. The fact is the government has gotten us back to surplus, and a sustainable expenditure path going forward. There isn’t an ex Labor PM alive today who delivered a surplus. Oh and you were also wrong with your other claim by saying we had one of the highest rates of spending. On that second link you can see literally dozens of countries 'rates of spending' year on year were far higher as a percentage increase. (Which I assume is what you mean when you say 'rate of increase' because how else would you measure it.) Righto. Bedtime.
Member since 2008.
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paulbagzFC
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Ol Smokin' Joe always used to say that a RBA cut was a sign of a weak economy, looking forward to seeing how it's spun if RBA drop rates in the next two weeks. -PB
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