The Australian Politics thread: Prime Minister Anthony Albanese


The Australian Politics thread: Prime Minister Anthony Albanese

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patjennings
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rusty - 28 Oct 2020 2:19 AM
if you want to blame Scomo then I’m sure you’ll find a reason. Just like when it was his fault for the fires because he didn’t stop fossil fuels, and Palainsidious blaming him for cancer because he didn’t adopt Bill Shortens cancer funding, which surely would’ve solved cancer and ended world hunger.

Bottom line is Victoria’s Coronavirus spread is on Dan Andrews and the blood of 800+ souls is on his hands, and I know you know this but you are just doing the shitty political thing where you try to blame the other guy anyway.

Dan Andrews and the vic government fucked up in so many ways. They fucked the hotel quarantine, they fucked the contact tracing, they fucked the hotspot zoning, they fucked the lock down timing, they were chiefly responsible for the pandemic strategy, decisions and actions and therefore the buck stops with them.

I'm not blaming Scomo for the fires. However, he did dismiss the concerns of the experts that told him he needed more aerial support. He made a judgement call which was tragically wrong. But government is about making choices and voting is about making choices. He has delivered what he promised at the ballot box and people voted for that so there can be no complaints in that regard.    

In regard to contact tracing NSW and Vic have compared their methods and it was established that they were essentially the same. Victoria has automated their systems further using Salesforce.

NSW is not the 'Gold Standard'. They have just been extremely lucky. What should have been learnt from the Aged Care problems (Federal responsibility) in NSW (Newmarch and Dorothy Henderson) was not applied by the Federal Aged Care Minster in Victoria. Hotel quarantine problems started not with private security guards but with Aged Care when a Night Manager at a hotel contracted it from his partner who was an aged care worker.  

Dan Andrews set up a process to look at who is to blame. He takes ministerial responsibility seriously and if there is an adverse finding against his government I fully expect him to stand down. But let's actually wait for the findings.

Compare that to the Federal Ministers that will not front Royal Commisions and forbid federal public servants from fronting them. 
Edited
4 Years Ago by patjennings
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No wonder the Libs don't want a federal anti-corruption body, half of them would be in jail if there was one!

Mates first policy: Scott Morrison’s No. 1 value is seeing the country rot from the head down
When 'looking after our mates' is your foundational value, those who work for you will get the message: taxpayer funding is there for the taking.
BERNARD KEANE OCT 27, 2020

"Remember, my value is: we look after our mates."
Scott Morrison, September 6, 2018

Everywhere you look in the Morrison government, you see sleaze and self-interest, if not outright corruption. Merely itemising the current scandals on foot is an arduous task.

The million dollars paid to a Liberal mate for government advertising without the inconvenience of a tender. Christine Holgate’s spending habits at Australia Post, all approved by a Liberal-stacked board. The expenses scandal at ASIC that has already cost that regulator a deputy chairman and is likely to cost it the chairman. The ongoing investigation into the 1000% mark-up on the Leppington Triangle for a Liberal donor.

The festering sore of the Community Development Grants program, a scandal 10 times bigger than sports rorts. The soft pedaling of the ACLEI’s investigation into Home Affairs and Liberal donor Austal. The long-running harassment and prosecution of Witness K and Bernard Collaery for exposing the corruption of the Howard government in Timor-Leste. Allowing executives of fossil fuel donors to write energy policy.

And, of course, the now years-long wait for even a pale shadow of a federal anti-corruption body.

Of all of these, Scott Morrison only confected high dudgeon about Holgate, his marketing skills having alerted him to the toxic combination of the words “Cartier” and “not taxpayers’ money”. Otherwise, his moral compass remains unmoved.

A number of the scandals have their genesis in the Abbott and Turnbull governments; Morrison only inherited some; others are of his own creation.

But all reflect two themes that have run through this government from day one in 2013: that it’s OK to use taxpayer money, and taxpayer-funded positions, for your own benefit, and the benefit of your mates, and for the benefit of your party; and that there are no consequences for failure and scandal, unless political calculation necessitates them.

Those themes are potent indeed. Governments do not operate in a vacuum. The tone and example set by governments has impacts that ripple outward. First to the bureaucrats who serve governments, then businesses that work closely with government, then the broader business community and then, eventually, the whole community.

When a government appoints scores of former Liberal MPs and staffers to publicly funded offices like the AAT; when it hands a million dollars to Liberal-connected pollster without process; when a deputy PM creates a taxpayer-funded job for his new girlfriend; when it gives over $440 million to a tiny Great Barrier Reef charity run by people connected to the Liberal-allied Business Council without process; when it carefully spends taxpayer money to service its electoral needs; when it hands tens of millions of dollars to its mates at News Corp without process — it sends a clear signal.

Taxpayer funds are there to help you and your mates. And looking after mates is the explicit foundational value of the Morrison government.

The message has filtered out to the bureaucracy. To Australia Post. To ASIC. To someone in the department in charge of valuing land in Western Sydney. To the Health Department, which looked the other way rather than do anything about Bridget McKenzie allocating grants without any legal authority.

It has filtered out to one of the government’s favourite consultants, KPMG, and every other major consulting firm that has latched firmly onto the taxpayer teat in recent years while delivering what ministers want to hear rather than quality policy advice. To its shipbuilder Austal. And it filtered out to the Leppington Pastoral Company plenty good.

And when ministers are caught out lobbying for their family’s business interests, or pedalling forged documents without consequence; when a department like Home Affairs can be repeatedly assessed as incompetent in the use of its powers and its expenditure of billions of dollars without any repercussions for its secretary or minister; when over a hundred thousand Australians can be targeted by an illegal scheme like robodebt without a single bureaucrat or minister suffering any consequence; when forensic independent reports by the auditor-general are dismissed by senior bureaucrats and the funding of the Australian National Audit Office is cut, when those who seek to hold the government up to scrutiny are raided, rather than rewarded, that too sends a signal.

Accountability doesn’t matter. You don’t need to fear the consequences of misuse of taxpayer funding.

“The standard you walk past is the standard you accept,” David Morrison famously said. For the Morrison government, it hasn’t merely accepted the low standards that have mired federal politics in sleaze, it has actively promoted them.

This is the result.

https://www.crikey.com.au/2020/10/27/scott-morrison-government-corruption/

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rusty - 27 Oct 2020 7:44 PM
[quote]
MvFCArsenal16.8 - 27 Oct 2020 7:02 PM

Can you imagine the reaction if it was Scomo or a Liberal who was running Victoria?

Dan didn't fuck off to Hawaii in a crisis though.

-PB

https://i.imgur.com/batge7K.jpg

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rusty - 27 Oct 2020 7:44 PM
MvFCArsenal16.8 - 27 Oct 2020 7:02 PM

Can you imagine the reaction if it was Scomo or a Liberal who was running Victoria?

I can imagine your reaction.
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rusty - 28 Oct 2020 2:19 AM
Bottom line is Victoria’s Coronavirus spread is on Dan Andrews and the blood of 800+ souls is on his hands, and I know you know this but you are just doing the shitty political thing where you try to blame the other guy anyway.

When you remember that an ADF soldier rooted a quarantine hotel guest and a security guard got infected and didn't self-isolate after his test in Sydney while other guards there were busted sleeping on the job, loads of people evading police in quarantine in Perth multiple times via ladder, to hang out with mates four times, going out twice to get groceries, or simply walking off to the pub, the man who took off from quarantine in Toowoomba in Queensland (who fortunately tested negative as did the three girls they let across the border just on their word) and the 62 breaches in hotel quarantine in Adelaide, it's a fucking miracle that only one state drew the short straw and got an outbreak.

Unfortunately, instead of helping, for some it's just a chance to score political points against the threateningly popular leader of the state in question.
Edited
4 Years Ago by paladisious
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rusty - 28 Oct 2020 2:19 AM
Bottom line is Victoria’s Coronavirus spread is on Dan Andrews and the blood of 800+ souls is on his hands, and I know you know this but you are just doing the shitty political thing where you try to blame the other guy anyway.

Bottom line is if you had even a fragment of integrity left you would acknowledge Andrews has got the cases from 700+ a day to ZERO. 

Its funny that you hold other forum posters yo account regarding political bias but you are totally blind to the fact you are the worst offender by a country mile. Its astounding.

(VAR) IS NAVY BLUE

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paladisious - 28 Oct 2020 10:26 AM
rusty - 27 Oct 2020 7:44 PM

I can imagine your reaction.

basically to regurgitate whatever sky news tells him to think. No opinions of his own anymore.



(VAR) IS NAVY BLUE

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sydneyfc1987 - 28 Oct 2020 12:27 PM
rusty - 28 Oct 2020 2:19 AM

Bottom line is if you had even a fragment of integrity left you would acknowledge Andrews has got the cases from 700+ a day to ZERO

Its funny that you hold other forum posters yo account regarding political bias but you are totally blind to the fact you are the worst offender by a country mile. Its astounding.

Spot on sydfc1987 in bold, most important point made over all the other bs posts and that Vics well being can finally start moving ahead.
In the big picture thats all that should matter instead of the politcal grand standing and all, its getting so petty near on school ground behaviour from observations.
Good luck all, watch some football or other things instead of following politics, its not good for your minds.


Love Football

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LFC. - 28 Oct 2020 12:45 PM
Good luck all, watch some football or other things instead of following politics, its not good for your minds.

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sydneyfc1987 - 28 Oct 2020 12:27 PM
rusty - 28 Oct 2020 2:19 AM

Bottom line is if you had even a fragment of integrity left you would acknowledge Andrews has got the cases from 700+ a day to ZERO. 

This argument might suffice if there was extensive community transmission and the relevant were caught on the hop, however in Victoria's situation there were already literally ZERO cases and through the their failed management of hotel quarantine, BLM riots and contact tracing they allowed the infection back into the public. Also even when it was obvious that the Coronavirus was out of control, Dan Andrews took too long to act, and when he finally did he went against WHO advice and instituted the longest lock down ever seen, with the economic damage, depression rates, suicides, mental health consequences yet to be calculated.

Trying to credit Dan Andrews for stopping coronavirus is a bit like trying to credit Scomo for stopping the fires. :laugh:
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LFC. - 28 Oct 2020 12:45 PM
sydneyfc1987 - 28 Oct 2020 12:27 PM

Spot on sydfc1987 in bold, most important point made over all the other bs posts and that Vics well being can finally start moving ahead.
In the big picture thats all that should matter instead of the politcal grand standing and all, its getting so petty near on school ground behaviour from observations.
Good luck all, watch some football or other things instead of following politics, its not good for your minds.

That's easy for you to say but what about the people who died and the thousands of businesses who've been severely wounded or the exponentially rising cases of mental illness due to Dan Andrew's and Victoria state governments fuck ups? Or does accountability not apply to Labor governments?
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paladisious - 28 Oct 2020 11:09 AM
rusty - 28 Oct 2020 2:19 AM

When you remember that an ADF soldier rooted a quarantine hotel guest and a security guard got infected and didn't self-isolate after his test in Sydney while other guards there were busted sleeping on the job, loads of people evading police in quarantine in Perth multiple times via ladder, to hang out with mates four times, going out twice to get groceries, or simply walking off to the pub, the man who took off from quarantine in Toowoomba in Queensland (who fortunately tested negative as did the three girls they let across the border just on their word) and the 62 breaches in hotel quarantine in Adelaide, it's a fucking miracle that only one state drew the short straw and got an outbreak.

Unfortunately, instead of helping, for some it's just a chance to score political points against the threateningly popular leader of the state in question.

The second wave of infections can be directly attributed to decisions made by the Premier and state Victorian government, which resulted in the loss of 800+ lives, massive economic damage and the longest lock down in the history of the world. Wanting those responsible to be held to account isn't "political point scoring".  Fuck sake if it was  a Liberal premier there would be riots in the streets demanding resignations.

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paulbagzFC - 28 Oct 2020 10:19 AM
rusty - 27 Oct 2020 7:44 PM

Dan didn't fuck off to Hawaii in a crisis though.

-PB

No he didn't do that, but his and his governments decisions lead to 800+ deaths, the world longest lock down and untold economic damage. In  my opinion, and I might be wrong, but that is much worse than going on a holiday to Hawaii. 

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patjennings - 28 Oct 2020 2:53 AM
rusty - 28 Oct 2020 2:19 AM

I'm not blaming Scomo for the fires. However, he did dismiss the concerns of the experts that told him he needed more aerial support. He made a judgement call which was tragically wrong. But government is about making choices and voting is about making choices. He has delivered what he promised at the ballot box and people voted for that so there can be no complaints in that regard.    

In regard to contact tracing NSW and Vic have compared their methods and it was established that they were essentially the same. Victoria has automated their systems further using Salesforce.

NSW is not the 'Gold Standard'. They have just been extremely lucky. What should have been learnt from the Aged Care problems (Federal responsibility) in NSW (Newmarch and Dorothy Henderson) was not applied by the Federal Aged Care Minster in Victoria. Hotel quarantine problems started not with private security guards but with Aged Care when a Night Manager at a hotel contracted it from his partner who was an aged care worker.  

Dan Andrews set up a process to look at who is to blame. He takes ministerial responsibility seriously and if there is an adverse finding against his government I fully expect him to stand down. But let's actually wait for the findings.

Compare that to the Federal Ministers that will not front Royal Commisions and forbid federal public servants from fronting them. 

It's interesting that you use the 'tragically' to somehow implicate the federal government in the cause, scope and severity of bush fires, as if somehow had the government had made a different "judgement call" then everything would have turned out differently, the fires would've magically disappeared. Of course there is scant evidence that water bombers make any difference to stopping or slowing bush fires, but what is does is distracts from land and fuel load management, so those whose "judgement calls" did tangibly impact the extent of the bush fires can wash their hands of responsibility and point the finger elsewhere.

In reality lower tier governments and  emergency services, whether police, fire, military or ambulances are always asking for more funding, more kit, more cars, more planes, more this, more that, and are usually never satisfied, so it's nice to know should they ever fuck up they can blame the federal government on "lack of funding".
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rusty - 28 Oct 2020 3:48 PM
paulbagzFC - 28 Oct 2020 10:19 AM

No he didn't do that, but his and his governments decisions lead to 800+ deaths, the world longest lock down and untold economic damage. In  my opinion, and I might be wrong, but that is much worse than going on a holiday to Hawaii. 

B-b-b-b-but

-PB

https://i.imgur.com/batge7K.jpg

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Jesus rusty.   There's bias and then there's this . Very cultish of you

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MvFCArsenal16.8 - 28 Oct 2020 5:30 PM
Jesus rusty.   There's bias and then there's this . Very cultish of you

Yes a cult of tragedy; 800+ deaths, surging rates of mental illness and suicide, thousands of business closures and untold economic damage for generations. 



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rusty - 28 Oct 2020 5:49 PM
MvFCArsenal16.8 - 28 Oct 2020 5:30 PM

Yes a cult of tragedy; 800+ deaths, surging rates of mental illness and suicide, thousands of business closures and untold economic damage for generations. 



And repeat ad nauseam . Do you have a thought of you're own or do you trumpet sky news?? 
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rusty - 28 Oct 2020 5:49 PM
MvFCArsenal16.8 - 28 Oct 2020 5:30 PM

Yes a cult of tragedy; 800+ deaths

655 of which were in Scomo's aged care facilities. His minister for aged care hasn't even given an interview since he couldn't even say how many people under his care have died months ago. What were you saying about the buck stopping with the politician responsible?

surging rates of mental illness and suicide


You might wish that were true, but fortunately you're wrong, and that's pretty widely reported data which I'm sure you've seen, but you have your own reasons for saying what you said.
Edited
4 Years Ago by paladisious
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paladisious - 28 Oct 2020 9:29 PM

rusty - 28 Oct 2020 5:49 PM

655 of which were in Scomo's aged care facilities. His minister for aged care hasn't even given an interview since he couldn't even say how many people under his care have died months ago. What were you saying about the buck stopping with the politician responsible?

surging rates of mental illness and suicide


You might wish that were true, but fortunately you're wrong, and that's pretty widely reported data which I'm sure you've seen, but you have your own reasons for saying what you said.

They are not "Scomos" aged care facilities, they are private businesses and the pandemic response is the responsibility of the state government. They are responsible for the safety of ALL Victorians, not just those that are run or regulated by the state. Otherwise you would have a mish mash of pandemic bureaucracy depending on whether is connected to state, local or federal, and a total clusterfuck would ensue. 

Nice try though.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-09-02/mental-health-crisis-coronavirus-victoria-lifeline-calls-rise/12588500
"It has seen an estimated 50 per cent rise in referrals for young people who have been admitted to a hospital emergency department because of a mental health crisis."

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MvFCArsenal16.8 - 28 Oct 2020 7:04 PM
rusty - 28 Oct 2020 5:49 PM

And repeat ad nauseam . Do you have a thought of you're own or do you trumpet sky news?? 

800+ deaths, surging rates of mental illness and suicide, thousands of business closures and untold economic damage for generations. 

Bravo Dan Andrews 
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rusty - 28 Oct 2020 10:56 PM
MvFCArsenal16.8 - 28 Oct 2020 7:04 PM

800+ deaths, surging rates of mental illness and suicide, thousands of business closures and untold economic damage for generations. 

Bravo Dan Andrews 

Surging rates of suicide in Victoria???.

To 26th August this year when the figures were last reported they have been 466 suicides in Victoria this year. In 2016 there were 36 less until the end of August, in 2017 5 less. In 2018 there were 3 more and 2019 13 more. You just keep make up stuff champ. 
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rusty - 28 Oct 2020 10:55 PM
paladisious - 28 Oct 2020 9:29 PM

They are not "Scomos" aged care facilities, they are private businesses and the pandemic response is the responsibility of the state government. They are responsible for the safety of ALL Victorians, not just those that are run or regulated by the state. Otherwise you would have a mish mash of pandemic bureaucracy depending on whether is connected to state, local or federal, and a total clusterfuck would ensue. 

Nice try though.

There absolutely is a "mish mash" of responsibilities between the federal, state and local levels of government, which has been the arrangement for 119 years and we've all managed.

Aged care is a federal responsibility and their response in this area has been appalling, and I don't need to go into the horror stories that came out in the royal commission.

The way Dan had fronted hostile media every day for over a hundred days while Scomo's aged care minister hasn't even given an interview says a lot about leadership and responsibility.

You can't have your cake and eat it too, you can't blame Dan for things you say are in his area of responsibility, but absolve Scomo of things in his area of responsibility.

And that's not even mentioning that quarantine is meant to be a federal responsibility as per the constitution.
Edited
4 Years Ago by paladisious
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paladisious - 29 Oct 2020 4:50 AM
rusty - 28 Oct 2020 10:55 PM

The way Dan had fronted hostile media every day for over a hundred days while Scomo's aged care minister hasn't even given an interview says a lot about leadership and responsibility.

You can't have your cake and eat it too, you can't blame Dan for things you say are in his area of responsibility, but absolve Scomo of things in his area of responsibility.

Well said. 

Unfortunately your latter paragraph is exactly what many people in our society do pretty much all the time (not just rusty). Its basically a form of tribalism a bit like how we get with our football teams. But it shouldn't be. 

(VAR) IS NAVY BLUE

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rusty - 28 Oct 2020 3:48 PM
paulbagzFC - 28 Oct 2020 10:19 AM

In  my opinion, and I might be wrong, 

This isn't trying to be sarcastic, but I just want to applaud you for attempting to be self aware here. 
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patjennings - 28 Oct 2020 11:34 PM
rusty - 28 Oct 2020 10:56 PM

Surging rates of suicide in Victoria???.

To 26th August this year when the figures were last reported they have been 466 suicides in Victoria this year. In 2016 there were 36 less until the end of August, in 2017 5 less. In 2018 there were 3 more and 2019 13 more. You just keep make up stuff champ. 

Haven't you been following Rus's debating tactics here?

Those actual facts are  just lefty bullshit which is parroting the MSM.  Wake up sheep.


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So we're all believing that it's just a coincidence that a couple of days after Rudd starts his petition for a royal commission on Murdoch there are headlines today about some link between Rudd and Epstein despite the fact that they never met, and that the story broke in Norwegian media in November 2019, yeah?
Edited
4 Years Ago by paladisious
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paladisious - 29 Oct 2020 10:30 PM
So we're all believing that it's just a coincidence that a couple of days after Rudd starts his petition for a royal commission on Murdoch there are headlines today about some link between Rudd and Epstein despite the fact that they never met, and that the story broke in Norwegian media in November 2019, yeah?

I don't want to go all Enzo and Rus here but that is interesting.


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Corrupt piece of shit

https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/department-emails-tried-to-discourage-evidence-from-staffer-who-shredded-documents-20201030-p56a2a.html

-PB

https://i.imgur.com/batge7K.jpg

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Munrubenmuz - 30 Oct 2020 5:26 PM
paladisious - 29 Oct 2020 10:30 PM

I don't want to go all Enzo and Rus here but that is interesting.

Well the guy related to the International Peace Institute (a UN-related body founded in 1970 that Rudd currently chairs the board of) that had anything to do with Epstien has already resigned, and the IPI have re-donated the equivalent of his donated money to relevant charities, unlike many of the dozens and dozens of other charities, universities and institutions that Epstein also donated to. All of this is old news.

Surely the fact that this story broke internationally in November 2019 but gets a replay in the headlines here in Australia just days after Rudd's petition against Murdoch is suss enough for any reasonable person to see sense on the matter.
Edited
4 Years Ago by paladisious
GO


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