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mcjules
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TheSelectFew wrote:
mcjules wrote:
Viet Guy wrote:
mcjules wrote:
tbitm wrote:
mcjules wrote:
tbitm wrote:
Question to the people saying its 2nd generation immigrants and immigrants aren't the problem. The thing is eventually they will give birth to 2nd gen immigrants. So, should we castrate them? Kill their babies? Or perhaps not let them in in the first place?
All 3 of us that have made this argument have acknowledged that they have kids. Did you actually read what was posted? Think about the nature of the threats 20 years ago, the world changes quicker than that.

tbitm wrote:
Its incredibly sad these attacks. I think most australians have their heart pound when they hear an attack has happened in Europe because we almost always have a loved one or friends over there. I know mine did.

But while these attackers are disgusting, these are only part of the affects of the islamisation of Europe has had we need to take a serious look at now, not when the Sydney Opera House is on fire, the West Gate Bridge is bombed or movie world gets gunned. Now.

The other affects which have taken place are quite obvious. The Euro, or any other sporting competition will almost certainly never be held again without maximum security. Almost every national holiday won't just be a day to celebrate, but a day to fear. Jews are leaving in droves. Gays, who fought so long to live their lives openly are going back or will start going back into the closet. Metal detectors are popping up and becoming more and more common. You can't draw what you want without getting death threats or a fatwa against your head. Women are being harassed and raped at a greater rate and are being forced to be far more careful than they otherwise would be. I imaging metal poles are going to be put up in crowded places to stop cars from ramming civilians but its all just a bandaid on the real issue.

Only a matter of time before they attack atheist rallies/meetups, NYE celebrations, liquor stores, annexing territory, firing rockets and release dirty bombs. Don't count on the Eiffel Tower always being there. You want to see it, go soon.

These aren't terrorist attacks. These are acts of war and its time we start treating them that way.
What's your solution apart from stemming immigration?
Yes a lot can change in 20 years, for instance Jews will be completely eradicated from Europe by then. Its only going to get worse. There have been as many terrorist attacks since the creation of ISIS (2013) than there was in the previous 20 years.* Do you honestly see this slowing down?


1) Investigate all mosques. Only that way can we see which ones are good and which ones need continuous monitoring
2) Deport all non citizens that are muslim
3) Import secular muslim leaders that share our values and allow them a platform to promote a new type of islam. See Majid Nawaz
4) Infiltrate their communities with spys. At least 5% of the population in these should be spies
5) Promote real muslim role models that can promote our values and build a model Muslim society for the rest of the world to envy.

We can only do these things once we declare war on Islam.

*Going off Wiki
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Islamist_terrorist_attacks
:shock:

1. Those sort of tactics are what they do in China but they still have issues. It drives people underground and they still have attacks.
2. Not a believer in Section 116 of the Australian constitution?


You dont know about xinjiang mate.
I do mate. Going to Urumqi end of August. Wish me luck!


That implies you haven't been there. Thus, you know squat.
So petty.

Insert Gertjan Verbeek gifs here

Edited
9 Years Ago by mcjules
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Nah mate just waiting. Could be anywhere next.


Edited
9 Years Ago by TheSelectFew
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mcjules wrote:
TheSelectFew wrote:
mcjules wrote:
Viet Guy wrote:
mcjules wrote:
tbitm wrote:
mcjules wrote:
tbitm wrote:
Question to the people saying its 2nd generation immigrants and immigrants aren't the problem. The thing is eventually they will give birth to 2nd gen immigrants. So, should we castrate them? Kill their babies? Or perhaps not let them in in the first place?
All 3 of us that have made this argument have acknowledged that they have kids. Did you actually read what was posted? Think about the nature of the threats 20 years ago, the world changes quicker than that.

tbitm wrote:
Its incredibly sad these attacks. I think most australians have their heart pound when they hear an attack has happened in Europe because we almost always have a loved one or friends over there. I know mine did.

But while these attackers are disgusting, these are only part of the affects of the islamisation of Europe has had we need to take a serious look at now, not when the Sydney Opera House is on fire, the West Gate Bridge is bombed or movie world gets gunned. Now.

The other affects which have taken place are quite obvious. The Euro, or any other sporting competition will almost certainly never be held again without maximum security. Almost every national holiday won't just be a day to celebrate, but a day to fear. Jews are leaving in droves. Gays, who fought so long to live their lives openly are going back or will start going back into the closet. Metal detectors are popping up and becoming more and more common. You can't draw what you want without getting death threats or a fatwa against your head. Women are being harassed and raped at a greater rate and are being forced to be far more careful than they otherwise would be. I imaging metal poles are going to be put up in crowded places to stop cars from ramming civilians but its all just a bandaid on the real issue.

Only a matter of time before they attack atheist rallies/meetups, NYE celebrations, liquor stores, annexing territory, firing rockets and release dirty bombs. Don't count on the Eiffel Tower always being there. You want to see it, go soon.

These aren't terrorist attacks. These are acts of war and its time we start treating them that way.
What's your solution apart from stemming immigration?
Yes a lot can change in 20 years, for instance Jews will be completely eradicated from Europe by then. Its only going to get worse. There have been as many terrorist attacks since the creation of ISIS (2013) than there was in the previous 20 years.* Do you honestly see this slowing down?


1) Investigate all mosques. Only that way can we see which ones are good and which ones need continuous monitoring
2) Deport all non citizens that are muslim
3) Import secular muslim leaders that share our values and allow them a platform to promote a new type of islam. See Majid Nawaz
4) Infiltrate their communities with spys. At least 5% of the population in these should be spies
5) Promote real muslim role models that can promote our values and build a model Muslim society for the rest of the world to envy.

We can only do these things once we declare war on Islam.

*Going off Wiki
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Islamist_terrorist_attacks
:shock:

1. Those sort of tactics are what they do in China but they still have issues. It drives people underground and they still have attacks.
2. Not a believer in Section 116 of the Australian constitution?


You dont know about xinjiang mate.
I do mate. Going to Urumqi end of August. Wish me luck!


That implies you haven't been there. Thus, you know squat.
So petty.


I'm right though. Don't bullshit us.


Edited
9 Years Ago by TheSelectFew
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Davide82 wrote:
Iridium1010 wrote:
is there any non muslim here who has actually studied the Quran and islamic culture? Maybe what we need is western countries to investigate Islam as to whether its actually compatible with western values.


I know people hate hearing about Christianity's shady past with violence and terror coz it's 2016 now but it does show one thing and that is the bible or the quaran or whatever can be interpreted in whatever way you need to in order to make it fit. I know this seems obvious to many but people still ask these questions so maybe it's not?

We tend to ignore the vengeful parts of Yahweh. But it's our society around the religion that has "moved on" not the religion or the bible itself.

I hazard to guess if roles were entirely reversed today and religions swapped so that the middle east was all variations of christians, they would find room in the bible to justify their anger and violence. Yes, the Quaran has many violent sections but far out man, some of the bible is vicious aha

The Qaran didn't stop these societies from "developing" how we did technologically etc, resources did!!


Theres plenty of christians in the middle east though, and they arent comitting terror attacks against the west
Edited
9 Years Ago by Iridium1010
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Iridium1010 wrote:
Davide82 wrote:
Iridium1010 wrote:
is there any non muslim here who has actually studied the Quran and islamic culture? Maybe what we need is western countries to investigate Islam as to whether its actually compatible with western values.


I know people hate hearing about Christianity's shady past with violence and terror coz it's 2016 now but it does show one thing and that is the bible or the quaran or whatever can be interpreted in whatever way you need to in order to make it fit. I know this seems obvious to many but people still ask these questions so maybe it's not?

We tend to ignore the vengeful parts of Yahweh. But it's our society around the religion that has "moved on" not the religion or the bible itself.

I hazard to guess if roles were entirely reversed today and religions swapped so that the middle east was all variations of christians, they would find room in the bible to justify their anger and violence. Yes, the Quaran has many violent sections but far out man, some of the bible is vicious aha

The Qaran didn't stop these societies from "developing" how we did technologically etc, resources did!!


Theres plenty of christians in the middle east though, and they arent comitting terror attacks against the west


And Jews!!


Edited
9 Years Ago by TheSelectFew
Davide82
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TheSelectFew wrote:
SocaWho wrote:
Davide82 wrote:
SocaWho wrote:
Have you been to Cabra mate? :lol:
Or are you gonna tell him what it's like from Google maps .
I've been there a few times and some of my Viet mates have grown up there.
What's your point...were you a regular at John St?
You think everything ends with a fairytale ending?

Just because you walked through there once or twice doesn't mean shit.:lol:

Having spent time in the area and also knowing people who grew up in that area and they speak from experience ...not their imagination


I actually don't think you get his point...
Even if he had never been to Cabramatta it would not make a difference to the point he was making.
Please try to keep up

Maybe you should do some research into the background of my argument ...


Peacefully though.


I have seen you talk about the history but that only further backs up MY point
Edited
9 Years Ago by Davide82
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TheSelectFew wrote:
Iridium1010 wrote:
Davide82 wrote:
Iridium1010 wrote:
is there any non muslim here who has actually studied the Quran and islamic culture? Maybe what we need is western countries to investigate Islam as to whether its actually compatible with western values.


I know people hate hearing about Christianity's shady past with violence and terror coz it's 2016 now but it does show one thing and that is the bible or the quaran or whatever can be interpreted in whatever way you need to in order to make it fit. I know this seems obvious to many but people still ask these questions so maybe it's not?

We tend to ignore the vengeful parts of Yahweh. But it's our society around the religion that has "moved on" not the religion or the bible itself.

I hazard to guess if roles were entirely reversed today and religions swapped so that the middle east was all variations of christians, they would find room in the bible to justify their anger and violence. Yes, the Quaran has many violent sections but far out man, some of the bible is vicious aha

The Qaran didn't stop these societies from "developing" how we did technologically etc, resources did!!


Theres plenty of christians in the middle east though, and they arent comitting terror attacks against the west


And Jews!!


Seriously>!!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Edited
9 Years Ago by Davide82
TheSelectFew
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Davide82 wrote:
TheSelectFew wrote:
Iridium1010 wrote:
Davide82 wrote:
Iridium1010 wrote:
is there any non muslim here who has actually studied the Quran and islamic culture? Maybe what we need is western countries to investigate Islam as to whether its actually compatible with western values.


I know people hate hearing about Christianity's shady past with violence and terror coz it's 2016 now but it does show one thing and that is the bible or the quaran or whatever can be interpreted in whatever way you need to in order to make it fit. I know this seems obvious to many but people still ask these questions so maybe it's not?

We tend to ignore the vengeful parts of Yahweh. But it's our society around the religion that has "moved on" not the religion or the bible itself.

I hazard to guess if roles were entirely reversed today and religions swapped so that the middle east was all variations of christians, they would find room in the bible to justify their anger and violence. Yes, the Quaran has many violent sections but far out man, some of the bible is vicious aha

The Qaran didn't stop these societies from "developing" how we did technologically etc, resources did!!


Theres plenty of christians in the middle east though, and they arent comitting terror attacks against the west


And Jews!!


Seriously>!!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Don't wish to discuss this with someone who takes the deaths of innocence seriously.


Edited
9 Years Ago by TheSelectFew
mcjules
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TheSelectFew wrote:
mcjules wrote:
TheSelectFew wrote:
mcjules wrote:
Viet Guy wrote:
mcjules wrote:
tbitm wrote:
mcjules wrote:
tbitm wrote:
Question to the people saying its 2nd generation immigrants and immigrants aren't the problem. The thing is eventually they will give birth to 2nd gen immigrants. So, should we castrate them? Kill their babies? Or perhaps not let them in in the first place?
All 3 of us that have made this argument have acknowledged that they have kids. Did you actually read what was posted? Think about the nature of the threats 20 years ago, the world changes quicker than that.

tbitm wrote:
Its incredibly sad these attacks. I think most australians have their heart pound when they hear an attack has happened in Europe because we almost always have a loved one or friends over there. I know mine did.

But while these attackers are disgusting, these are only part of the affects of the islamisation of Europe has had we need to take a serious look at now, not when the Sydney Opera House is on fire, the West Gate Bridge is bombed or movie world gets gunned. Now.

The other affects which have taken place are quite obvious. The Euro, or any other sporting competition will almost certainly never be held again without maximum security. Almost every national holiday won't just be a day to celebrate, but a day to fear. Jews are leaving in droves. Gays, who fought so long to live their lives openly are going back or will start going back into the closet. Metal detectors are popping up and becoming more and more common. You can't draw what you want without getting death threats or a fatwa against your head. Women are being harassed and raped at a greater rate and are being forced to be far more careful than they otherwise would be. I imaging metal poles are going to be put up in crowded places to stop cars from ramming civilians but its all just a bandaid on the real issue.

Only a matter of time before they attack atheist rallies/meetups, NYE celebrations, liquor stores, annexing territory, firing rockets and release dirty bombs. Don't count on the Eiffel Tower always being there. You want to see it, go soon.

These aren't terrorist attacks. These are acts of war and its time we start treating them that way.
What's your solution apart from stemming immigration?
Yes a lot can change in 20 years, for instance Jews will be completely eradicated from Europe by then. Its only going to get worse. There have been as many terrorist attacks since the creation of ISIS (2013) than there was in the previous 20 years.* Do you honestly see this slowing down?


1) Investigate all mosques. Only that way can we see which ones are good and which ones need continuous monitoring
2) Deport all non citizens that are muslim
3) Import secular muslim leaders that share our values and allow them a platform to promote a new type of islam. See Majid Nawaz
4) Infiltrate their communities with spys. At least 5% of the population in these should be spies
5) Promote real muslim role models that can promote our values and build a model Muslim society for the rest of the world to envy.

We can only do these things once we declare war on Islam.

*Going off Wiki
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Islamist_terrorist_attacks
:shock:

1. Those sort of tactics are what they do in China but they still have issues. It drives people underground and they still have attacks.
2. Not a believer in Section 116 of the Australian constitution?


You dont know about xinjiang mate.
I do mate. Going to Urumqi end of August. Wish me luck!


That implies you haven't been there. Thus, you know squat.
So petty.


I'm right though. Don't bullshit us.
Well I know a number of people from there (why would I be going otherwise the flights are costing me a packet) including some Uighurs. I've also been into other places in China with significant muslim communities such as Lanzhou and Xi'an. Some terrorist attacks in China have happened in Beijing and I've been there too.

Really though, if you're best argument is "you haven't been there so you don't know" you really are a simpleton. Even if I lived there my evidence would still be anecdotal.

Insert Gertjan Verbeek gifs here

Edited
9 Years Ago by mcjules
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TheSelectFew wrote:
Iridium1010 wrote:
Davide82 wrote:
Iridium1010 wrote:
is there any non muslim here who has actually studied the Quran and islamic culture? Maybe what we need is western countries to investigate Islam as to whether its actually compatible with western values.


I know people hate hearing about Christianity's shady past with violence and terror coz it's 2016 now but it does show one thing and that is the bible or the quaran or whatever can be interpreted in whatever way you need to in order to make it fit. I know this seems obvious to many but people still ask these questions so maybe it's not?

We tend to ignore the vengeful parts of Yahweh. But it's our society around the religion that has "moved on" not the religion or the bible itself.

I hazard to guess if roles were entirely reversed today and religions swapped so that the middle east was all variations of christians, they would find room in the bible to justify their anger and violence. Yes, the Quaran has many violent sections but far out man, some of the bible is vicious aha

The Qaran didn't stop these societies from "developing" how we did technologically etc, resources did!!


Theres plenty of christians in the middle east though, and they arent comitting terror attacks against the west


And Jews!!


Da jew
Edited
9 Years Ago by Iridium1010
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Davide82 wrote:
Iridium1010 wrote:
is there any non muslim here who has actually studied the Quran and islamic culture? Maybe what we need is western countries to investigate Islam as to whether its actually compatible with western values.


I know people hate hearing about Christianity's shady past with violence and terror coz it's 2016 now but it does show one thing and that is the bible or the quaran or whatever can be interpreted in whatever way you need to in order to make it fit. I know this seems obvious to many but people still ask these questions so maybe it's not?

We tend to ignore the vengeful parts of Yahweh. But it's our society around the religion that has "moved on" not the religion or the bible itself.

I hazard to guess if roles were entirely reversed today and religions swapped so that the middle east was all variations of christians, they would find room in the bible to justify their anger and violence. Yes, the Quaran has many violent sections but far out man, some of the bible is vicious aha

The Qaran didn't stop these societies from "developing" how we did technologically etc, resources did!!


Indeed. However, something has changed within the Christian religion whereby they're not raiding Jerusalem in the name of the almighty or burning witches.

Being in a backward shithole doesn't make it ok to kill innocent people.
Edited
9 Years Ago by BETHFC
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mcjules wrote:
TheSelectFew wrote:
mcjules wrote:
TheSelectFew wrote:
mcjules wrote:
Viet Guy wrote:
mcjules wrote:
tbitm wrote:
mcjules wrote:
tbitm wrote:
Question to the people saying its 2nd generation immigrants and immigrants aren't the problem. The thing is eventually they will give birth to 2nd gen immigrants. So, should we castrate them? Kill their babies? Or perhaps not let them in in the first place?
All 3 of us that have made this argument have acknowledged that they have kids. Did you actually read what was posted? Think about the nature of the threats 20 years ago, the world changes quicker than that.

tbitm wrote:
Its incredibly sad these attacks. I think most australians have their heart pound when they hear an attack has happened in Europe because we almost always have a loved one or friends over there. I know mine did.

But while these attackers are disgusting, these are only part of the affects of the islamisation of Europe has had we need to take a serious look at now, not when the Sydney Opera House is on fire, the West Gate Bridge is bombed or movie world gets gunned. Now.

The other affects which have taken place are quite obvious. The Euro, or any other sporting competition will almost certainly never be held again without maximum security. Almost every national holiday won't just be a day to celebrate, but a day to fear. Jews are leaving in droves. Gays, who fought so long to live their lives openly are going back or will start going back into the closet. Metal detectors are popping up and becoming more and more common. You can't draw what you want without getting death threats or a fatwa against your head. Women are being harassed and raped at a greater rate and are being forced to be far more careful than they otherwise would be. I imaging metal poles are going to be put up in crowded places to stop cars from ramming civilians but its all just a bandaid on the real issue.

Only a matter of time before they attack atheist rallies/meetups, NYE celebrations, liquor stores, annexing territory, firing rockets and release dirty bombs. Don't count on the Eiffel Tower always being there. You want to see it, go soon.

These aren't terrorist attacks. These are acts of war and its time we start treating them that way.
What's your solution apart from stemming immigration?
Yes a lot can change in 20 years, for instance Jews will be completely eradicated from Europe by then. Its only going to get worse. There have been as many terrorist attacks since the creation of ISIS (2013) than there was in the previous 20 years.* Do you honestly see this slowing down?


1) Investigate all mosques. Only that way can we see which ones are good and which ones need continuous monitoring
2) Deport all non citizens that are muslim
3) Import secular muslim leaders that share our values and allow them a platform to promote a new type of islam. See Majid Nawaz
4) Infiltrate their communities with spys. At least 5% of the population in these should be spies
5) Promote real muslim role models that can promote our values and build a model Muslim society for the rest of the world to envy.

We can only do these things once we declare war on Islam.

*Going off Wiki
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Islamist_terrorist_attacks
:shock:

1. Those sort of tactics are what they do in China but they still have issues. It drives people underground and they still have attacks.
2. Not a believer in Section 116 of the Australian constitution?


You dont know about xinjiang mate.
I do mate. Going to Urumqi end of August. Wish me luck!


That implies you haven't been there. Thus, you know squat.
So petty.


I'm right though. Don't bullshit us.
Well I know a number of people from there (why would I be going otherwise the flights are costing me a packet) including some Uighurs. I've also been into other places in China with significant muslim communities such as Lanzhou and Xi'an. Some terrorist attacks in China have happened in Beijing and I've been there too.

Really though, if you're best argument is "you haven't been there so you don't know" you really are a simpleton. Even if I lived there my evidence would still be anecdotal.


That's not what you said though.

If you lived there you would have a better leg to stad on than '...im going there'.


Edited
9 Years Ago by TheSelectFew
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Iridium1010 wrote:
[quote=Davide82]
Theres plenty of christians in the middle east though, and they arent comitting terror attacks against the west


You can't just throw a word out like "plenty" and use that as your sole response, surely?
That's like me saying there's plenty of muslims in Adelaide and no terror attacks against the west?

I don't have enough time left in my day (not a cop out I really don't) but quickly think about what positions of power over resources or anything like what i touched on above some pockets of christians scattered around some parts of the mid east have or stand to lose or have been at war over for the latter part of the 20th century......

Sorry, coz I wanted to answer that better for you
Edited
9 Years Ago by Davide82
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TheSelectFew wrote:
scott21 wrote:
pv4 wrote:

Should spend more time presidenting


:lol:

This.
You have a race divide in your country ffs.


Everybody blaming Trump for the state of the world and forgetting Obama is in charge and has been for 7 years.

I guess it all must be Bush's fault.
Edited
9 Years Ago by scott21
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TheSelectFew wrote:

Don't wish to discuss this with someone who takes the deaths of innocence seriously.


:lol:
No worries, man. Nice work.
Edited
9 Years Ago by Davide82
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mcjules wrote:
TheSelectFew wrote:
mcjules wrote:
tbitm wrote:
mcjules wrote:
tbitm wrote:
Question to the people saying its 2nd generation immigrants and immigrants aren't the problem. The thing is eventually they will give birth to 2nd gen immigrants. So, should we castrate them? Kill their babies? Or perhaps not let them in in the first place?
All 3 of us that have made this argument have acknowledged that they have kids. Did you actually read what was posted? Think about the nature of the threats 20 years ago, the world changes quicker than that.

tbitm wrote:
Its incredibly sad these attacks. I think most australians have their heart pound when they hear an attack has happened in Europe because we almost always have a loved one or friends over there. I know mine did.

But while these attackers are disgusting, these are only part of the affects of the islamisation of Europe has had we need to take a serious look at now, not when the Sydney Opera House is on fire, the West Gate Bridge is bombed or movie world gets gunned. Now.

The other affects which have taken place are quite obvious. The Euro, or any other sporting competition will almost certainly never be held again without maximum security. Almost every national holiday won't just be a day to celebrate, but a day to fear. Jews are leaving in droves. Gays, who fought so long to live their lives openly are going back or will start going back into the closet. Metal detectors are popping up and becoming more and more common. You can't draw what you want without getting death threats or a fatwa against your head. Women are being harassed and raped at a greater rate and are being forced to be far more careful than they otherwise would be. I imaging metal poles are going to be put up in crowded places to stop cars from ramming civilians but its all just a bandaid on the real issue.

Only a matter of time before they attack atheist rallies/meetups, NYE celebrations, liquor stores, annexing territory, firing rockets and release dirty bombs. Don't count on the Eiffel Tower always being there. You want to see it, go soon.

These aren't terrorist attacks. These are acts of war and its time we start treating them that way.
What's your solution apart from stemming immigration?
Yes a lot can change in 20 years, for instance Jews will be completely eradicated from Europe by then. Its only going to get worse. There have been as many terrorist attacks since the creation of ISIS (2013) than there was in the previous 20 years.* Do you honestly see this slowing down?


1) Investigate all mosques. Only that way can we see which ones are good and which ones need continuous monitoring
2) Deport all non citizens that are muslim
3) Import secular muslim leaders that share our values and allow them a platform to promote a new type of islam. See Majid Nawaz
4) Infiltrate their communities with spys. At least 5% of the population in these should be spies
5) Promote real muslim role models that can promote our values and build a model Muslim society for the rest of the world to envy.

We can only do these things once we declare war on Islam.

*Going off Wiki
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Islamist_terrorist_attacks
:shock:

1. Those sort of tactics are what they do in China but they still have issues. It drives people underground and they still have attacks.
2. Not a believer in Section 116 of the Australian constitution?


Implying that the constitution is a great refrence.

This isnt the US our constitution is massively different. Study it. We have very few rights protected under it.

Stop clutching at straws.
And, this is one of the few rights that is. So it's highly relevant. For tbitm's plan to work would require a referendum where 2 thirds of the states say yes and a majority overall. That's a seriously high bar.

I'm going to assume people are highly emotional at the moment and aren't thinking straight.
It is a high bar but its a problem that will have to be addressed eventually and that bar will be reached. Problem is to do it now while Australia is still relatively safe and it can be done peacefully or in the future less peacefully.

You're probably right though that in 2016 it's a high bar. Speaking to Australians we generally don't seem to give a shit because we all want to be cool and bash Pauline Hanson and eat Hsp's. It'll take the Opera house on fire for us to change anything
Edited
9 Years Ago by tbitm
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BETHFC wrote:
Davide82 wrote:
Iridium1010 wrote:
is there any non muslim here who has actually studied the Quran and islamic culture? Maybe what we need is western countries to investigate Islam as to whether its actually compatible with western values.


I know people hate hearing about Christianity's shady past with violence and terror coz it's 2016 now but it does show one thing and that is the bible or the quaran or whatever can be interpreted in whatever way you need to in order to make it fit. I know this seems obvious to many but people still ask these questions so maybe it's not?

We tend to ignore the vengeful parts of Yahweh. But it's our society around the religion that has "moved on" not the religion or the bible itself.

I hazard to guess if roles were entirely reversed today and religions swapped so that the middle east was all variations of christians, they would find room in the bible to justify their anger and violence. Yes, the Quaran has many violent sections but far out man, some of the bible is vicious aha

The Qaran didn't stop these societies from "developing" how we did technologically etc, resources did!!


Indeed. However, something has changed within the Christian religion whereby they're not raiding Jerusalem in the name of the almighty or burning witches.

Being in a backward shithole doesn't make it ok to kill innocent people.


I maintain it hasn't changed in the religion it has changed in society.
And do you know what I believe that change to be?

Prosperity

Plain and simple. And sorry to remind you but "we" still have been bombing the shit out of and arming militants in holy lands and people like George Bush still did so with prayers and god bless americas.........
Edited
9 Years Ago by Davide82
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TheSelectFew wrote:
mcjules wrote:
TheSelectFew wrote:
mcjules wrote:
TheSelectFew wrote:
mcjules wrote:
Viet Guy wrote:
mcjules wrote:
tbitm wrote:
mcjules wrote:
tbitm wrote:
Question to the people saying its 2nd generation immigrants and immigrants aren't the problem. The thing is eventually they will give birth to 2nd gen immigrants. So, should we castrate them? Kill their babies? Or perhaps not let them in in the first place?
All 3 of us that have made this argument have acknowledged that they have kids. Did you actually read what was posted? Think about the nature of the threats 20 years ago, the world changes quicker than that.

tbitm wrote:
Its incredibly sad these attacks. I think most australians have their heart pound when they hear an attack has happened in Europe because we almost always have a loved one or friends over there. I know mine did.

But while these attackers are disgusting, these are only part of the affects of the islamisation of Europe has had we need to take a serious look at now, not when the Sydney Opera House is on fire, the West Gate Bridge is bombed or movie world gets gunned. Now.

The other affects which have taken place are quite obvious. The Euro, or any other sporting competition will almost certainly never be held again without maximum security. Almost every national holiday won't just be a day to celebrate, but a day to fear. Jews are leaving in droves. Gays, who fought so long to live their lives openly are going back or will start going back into the closet. Metal detectors are popping up and becoming more and more common. You can't draw what you want without getting death threats or a fatwa against your head. Women are being harassed and raped at a greater rate and are being forced to be far more careful than they otherwise would be. I imaging metal poles are going to be put up in crowded places to stop cars from ramming civilians but its all just a bandaid on the real issue.

Only a matter of time before they attack atheist rallies/meetups, NYE celebrations, liquor stores, annexing territory, firing rockets and release dirty bombs. Don't count on the Eiffel Tower always being there. You want to see it, go soon.

These aren't terrorist attacks. These are acts of war and its time we start treating them that way.
What's your solution apart from stemming immigration?
Yes a lot can change in 20 years, for instance Jews will be completely eradicated from Europe by then. Its only going to get worse. There have been as many terrorist attacks since the creation of ISIS (2013) than there was in the previous 20 years.* Do you honestly see this slowing down?


1) Investigate all mosques. Only that way can we see which ones are good and which ones need continuous monitoring
2) Deport all non citizens that are muslim
3) Import secular muslim leaders that share our values and allow them a platform to promote a new type of islam. See Majid Nawaz
4) Infiltrate their communities with spys. At least 5% of the population in these should be spies
5) Promote real muslim role models that can promote our values and build a model Muslim society for the rest of the world to envy.

We can only do these things once we declare war on Islam.

*Going off Wiki
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Islamist_terrorist_attacks
:shock:

1. Those sort of tactics are what they do in China but they still have issues. It drives people underground and they still have attacks.
2. Not a believer in Section 116 of the Australian constitution?


You dont know about xinjiang mate.
I do mate. Going to Urumqi end of August. Wish me luck!


That implies you haven't been there. Thus, you know squat.
So petty.


I'm right though. Don't bullshit us.
Well I know a number of people from there (why would I be going otherwise the flights are costing me a packet) including some Uighurs. I've also been into other places in China with significant muslim communities such as Lanzhou and Xi'an. Some terrorist attacks in China have happened in Beijing and I've been there too.

Really though, if you're best argument is "you haven't been there so you don't know" you really are a simpleton. Even if I lived there my evidence would still be anecdotal.


That's not what you said though.

If you lived there you would have a better leg to stad on than '...im going there'.
He claimed I didn't know about Xinjiang. Of course I know about it, otherwise I wouldn't be going there.

Any rate, what's the point anyway? That muslims in Xinjiang practice their religion freely and openly and what I claimed was incorrect? Why would anyone challenge me on that? :lol:

Insert Gertjan Verbeek gifs here

Edited
9 Years Ago by mcjules
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Davide82 wrote:
TheSelectFew wrote:

Don't wish to discuss this with someone who takes the deaths of innocence seriously.


:lol:
No worries, man. Nice work.


Well you obviously get some sick enjoyment out of it.


Edited
9 Years Ago by TheSelectFew
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tbitm wrote:
mcjules wrote:
TheSelectFew wrote:
mcjules wrote:
tbitm wrote:
mcjules wrote:
tbitm wrote:
Question to the people saying its 2nd generation immigrants and immigrants aren't the problem. The thing is eventually they will give birth to 2nd gen immigrants. So, should we castrate them? Kill their babies? Or perhaps not let them in in the first place?
All 3 of us that have made this argument have acknowledged that they have kids. Did you actually read what was posted? Think about the nature of the threats 20 years ago, the world changes quicker than that.

tbitm wrote:
Its incredibly sad these attacks. I think most australians have their heart pound when they hear an attack has happened in Europe because we almost always have a loved one or friends over there. I know mine did.

But while these attackers are disgusting, these are only part of the affects of the islamisation of Europe has had we need to take a serious look at now, not when the Sydney Opera House is on fire, the West Gate Bridge is bombed or movie world gets gunned. Now.

The other affects which have taken place are quite obvious. The Euro, or any other sporting competition will almost certainly never be held again without maximum security. Almost every national holiday won't just be a day to celebrate, but a day to fear. Jews are leaving in droves. Gays, who fought so long to live their lives openly are going back or will start going back into the closet. Metal detectors are popping up and becoming more and more common. You can't draw what you want without getting death threats or a fatwa against your head. Women are being harassed and raped at a greater rate and are being forced to be far more careful than they otherwise would be. I imaging metal poles are going to be put up in crowded places to stop cars from ramming civilians but its all just a bandaid on the real issue.

Only a matter of time before they attack atheist rallies/meetups, NYE celebrations, liquor stores, annexing territory, firing rockets and release dirty bombs. Don't count on the Eiffel Tower always being there. You want to see it, go soon.

These aren't terrorist attacks. These are acts of war and its time we start treating them that way.
What's your solution apart from stemming immigration?
Yes a lot can change in 20 years, for instance Jews will be completely eradicated from Europe by then. Its only going to get worse. There have been as many terrorist attacks since the creation of ISIS (2013) than there was in the previous 20 years.* Do you honestly see this slowing down?


1) Investigate all mosques. Only that way can we see which ones are good and which ones need continuous monitoring
2) Deport all non citizens that are muslim
3) Import secular muslim leaders that share our values and allow them a platform to promote a new type of islam. See Majid Nawaz
4) Infiltrate their communities with spys. At least 5% of the population in these should be spies
5) Promote real muslim role models that can promote our values and build a model Muslim society for the rest of the world to envy.

We can only do these things once we declare war on Islam.

*Going off Wiki
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Islamist_terrorist_attacks
:shock:

1. Those sort of tactics are what they do in China but they still have issues. It drives people underground and they still have attacks.
2. Not a believer in Section 116 of the Australian constitution?


Implying that the constitution is a great refrence.

This isnt the US our constitution is massively different. Study it. We have very few rights protected under it.

Stop clutching at straws.
And, this is one of the few rights that is. So it's highly relevant. For tbitm's plan to work would require a referendum where 2 thirds of the states say yes and a majority overall. That's a seriously high bar.

I'm going to assume people are highly emotional at the moment and aren't thinking straight.
It is a high bar but its a problem that will have to be addressed eventually and that bar will be reached. Problem is to do it now while Australia is still relatively safe and it can be done peacefully or in the future less peacefully.

You're probably right though that in 2016 it's a high bar. Speaking to Australians we generally don't seem to give a shit because we all want to be cool and bash Pauline Hanson and eat Hsp's. It'll take the Opera house on fire for us to change anything
I don't think people are ever going to vote in a police state situation, but you may be right, people have been voting for dumb things lately (yes yes off topic). Meet you back here in 20 years.

Insert Gertjan Verbeek gifs here

Edited
9 Years Ago by mcjules
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BETHFC wrote:
Davide82 wrote:
Iridium1010 wrote:
is there any non muslim here who has actually studied the Quran and islamic culture? Maybe what we need is western countries to investigate Islam as to whether its actually compatible with western values.


I know people hate hearing about Christianity's shady past with violence and terror coz it's 2016 now but it does show one thing and that is the bible or the quaran or whatever can be interpreted in whatever way you need to in order to make it fit. I know this seems obvious to many but people still ask these questions so maybe it's not?

We tend to ignore the vengeful parts of Yahweh. But it's our society around the religion that has "moved on" not the religion or the bible itself.

I hazard to guess if roles were entirely reversed today and religions swapped so that the middle east was all variations of christians, they would find room in the bible to justify their anger and violence. Yes, the Quaran has many violent sections but far out man, some of the bible is vicious aha

The Qaran didn't stop these societies from "developing" how we did technologically etc, resources did!!


Indeed. However, something has changed within the Christian religion whereby they're not raiding Jerusalem in the name of the almighty or burning witches.

Being in a backward shithole doesn't make it ok to kill innocent people.


Nothing has changed within the Christian religion. What has changed is the societies that the Christian religion exists predominantly in (The West) doesn't take it seriously anymore. And by seriously I mean that there is a separation of church and state, the churches have no legal powers of control etc.

Go have a look in some African failed states and you will see that Christians can be just as vicious against muslims as muslims are against Christians.

The issue is that the countries in the middle east are violent societies ruled by authoritarian regimes, or straight-up dictatorships. Violent extremist islam evolved as a response to this.

Ultimately the problem is one of society, not just religion.

But turning middle eastern countries into democracies with rule of law, separation of church and state???? Good luck!
Edited
9 Years Ago by AzzaMarch
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No matter what we just wait for the next attack and the apologists to climb of their high and mighty ladder to tell the masses it's a conspiracy.


Edited
9 Years Ago by TheSelectFew
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TheSelectFew wrote:
Davide82 wrote:
TheSelectFew wrote:

Don't wish to discuss this with someone who takes the deaths of innocence seriously.


:lol:
No worries, man. Nice work.


Well you obviously get some sick enjoyment out of it.


Aha I assumed you were joking...
You really are struggling to keep up
Have a good weekend, man.

Edited
9 Years Ago by Davide82
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Davide82 wrote:
Iridium1010 wrote:
[quote=Davide82]
Theres plenty of christians in the middle east though, and they arent comitting terror attacks against the west


You can't just throw a word out like "plenty" and use that as your sole response, surely?
That's like me saying there's plenty of muslims in Adelaide and no terror attacks against the west?

I don't have enough time left in my day (not a cop out I really don't) but quickly think about what positions of power over resources or anything like what i touched on above some pockets of christians scattered around some parts of the mid east have or stand to lose or have been at war over for the latter part of the 20th century......

Sorry, coz I wanted to answer that better for you


Not gonna lie, i dont really understand what you just said, but my response was to your hypothetical about if islam was switched with christianity in the middle east. Israel, Jordan, Syria, Iraq, and Egypt, Palestine all have or had recently 5-20% of the population being Christian, Lebanon 35-60%. Most of which are hotbed for radical islamic groups, yet we dont see an extremist christian problem in the middle east.
Edited
9 Years Ago by Iridium1010
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Davide82 wrote:
TheSelectFew wrote:
Davide82 wrote:
TheSelectFew wrote:

Don't wish to discuss this with someone who takes the deaths of innocence seriously.


:lol:
No worries, man. Nice work.


Well you obviously get some sick enjoyment out of it.


Aha I assumed you were joking...
You really are struggling to keep up
Have a good weekend, man.


It was meant to have doesn't. Either way way. You get the drift.


Edited
9 Years Ago by TheSelectFew
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Iridium1010 wrote:
Davide82 wrote:
Iridium1010 wrote:
[quote=Davide82]
Theres plenty of christians in the middle east though, and they arent comitting terror attacks against the west


You can't just throw a word out like "plenty" and use that as your sole response, surely?
That's like me saying there's plenty of muslims in Adelaide and no terror attacks against the west?

I don't have enough time left in my day (not a cop out I really don't) but quickly think about what positions of power over resources or anything like what i touched on above some pockets of christians scattered around some parts of the mid east have or stand to lose or have been at war over for the latter part of the 20th century......

Sorry, coz I wanted to answer that better for you


Not gonna lie, i dont really understand what you just said, but my response was to your hypothetical about if islam was switched with christianity in the middle east. Israel, Jordan, Syria, Iraq, and Egypt, Palestine all have or had recently 5-20% of the population being Christian, Lebanon 35-60%. Most of which are hotbed for radical islamic groups, yet we dont see an extremist christian problem in the middle east.


Sorry man, wa stryna answer you in a hurry. I'm no expert anyway and you raise a point worth discussing. Hopefully this chat goes on till I can join back in aha
Edited
9 Years Ago by Davide82
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AzzaMarch wrote:
BETHFC wrote:
Davide82 wrote:
Iridium1010 wrote:
is there any non muslim here who has actually studied the Quran and islamic culture? Maybe what we need is western countries to investigate Islam as to whether its actually compatible with western values.


I know people hate hearing about Christianity's shady past with violence and terror coz it's 2016 now but it does show one thing and that is the bible or the quaran or whatever can be interpreted in whatever way you need to in order to make it fit. I know this seems obvious to many but people still ask these questions so maybe it's not?

We tend to ignore the vengeful parts of Yahweh. But it's our society around the religion that has "moved on" not the religion or the bible itself.

I hazard to guess if roles were entirely reversed today and religions swapped so that the middle east was all variations of christians, they would find room in the bible to justify their anger and violence. Yes, the Quaran has many violent sections but far out man, some of the bible is vicious aha

The Qaran didn't stop these societies from "developing" how we did technologically etc, resources did!!


Indeed. However, something has changed within the Christian religion whereby they're not raiding Jerusalem in the name of the almighty or burning witches.

Being in a backward shithole doesn't make it ok to kill innocent people.


Nothing has changed within the Christian religion. What has changed is the societies that the Christian religion exists predominantly in (The West) doesn't take it seriously anymore. And by seriously I mean that there is a separation of church and state, the churches have no legal powers of control etc.

Go have a look in some African failed states and you will see that Christians can be just as vicious against muslims as muslims are against Christians.

The issue is that the countries in the middle east are violent societies ruled by authoritarian regimes, or straight-up dictatorships. Violent extremist islam evolved as a response to this.

Ultimately the problem is one of society, not just religion.

But turning middle eastern countries into democracies with rule of law, separation of church and state???? Good luck!


Good points, but modern extremist islam stems from Wahhabism, the Religious movement of the Saudis who were never ruled by anyone.

Which brings me to another point, why are we allied with these GCC countries and allow them to build mosques in western countries

Edited by iridium1010: 15/7/2016 05:31:21 PM
Edited
9 Years Ago by Iridium1010
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TheSelectFew wrote:
Davide82 wrote:
TheSelectFew wrote:
Davide82 wrote:
TheSelectFew wrote:

Don't wish to discuss this with someone who takes the deaths of innocence seriously.


:lol:
No worries, man. Nice work.


Well you obviously get some sick enjoyment out of it.


Aha I assumed you were joking...
You really are struggling to keep up
Have a good weekend, man.


It was meant to have doesn't. Either way way. You get the drift.


I understood your typo and I still think you're a dickhead IF that's what you think of me and that's what you got out of me taking the piss out of Aikhme or whoever it was' comments re immigration when 2 commnest later i clarified how disgusting and barbaric this act was. If you didn't see that then no worries, sorry for the confusion
Edited
9 Years Ago by Davide82
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Davide82 wrote:
Iridium1010 wrote:
Davide82 wrote:
Iridium1010 wrote:
[quote=Davide82]
Theres plenty of christians in the middle east though, and they arent comitting terror attacks against the west


You can't just throw a word out like "plenty" and use that as your sole response, surely?
That's like me saying there's plenty of muslims in Adelaide and no terror attacks against the west?

I don't have enough time left in my day (not a cop out I really don't) but quickly think about what positions of power over resources or anything like what i touched on above some pockets of christians scattered around some parts of the mid east have or stand to lose or have been at war over for the latter part of the 20th century......

Sorry, coz I wanted to answer that better for you


Not gonna lie, i dont really understand what you just said, but my response was to your hypothetical about if islam was switched with christianity in the middle east. Israel, Jordan, Syria, Iraq, and Egypt, Palestine all have or had recently 5-20% of the population being Christian, Lebanon 35-60%. Most of which are hotbed for radical islamic groups, yet we dont see an extremist christian problem in the middle east.


Sorry man, wa stryna answer you in a hurry. I'm no expert anyway and you raise a point worth discussing. Hopefully this chat goes on till I can join back in aha


Good day
Edited
9 Years Ago by Iridium1010
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mcjules wrote:
Viet Guy wrote:
mcjules wrote:
tbitm wrote:
mcjules wrote:
tbitm wrote:
Question to the people saying its 2nd generation immigrants and immigrants aren't the problem. The thing is eventually they will give birth to 2nd gen immigrants. So, should we castrate them? Kill their babies? Or perhaps not let them in in the first place?
All 3 of us that have made this argument have acknowledged that they have kids. Did you actually read what was posted? Think about the nature of the threats 20 years ago, the world changes quicker than that.

tbitm wrote:
Its incredibly sad these attacks. I think most australians have their heart pound when they hear an attack has happened in Europe because we almost always have a loved one or friends over there. I know mine did.

But while these attackers are disgusting, these are only part of the affects of the islamisation of Europe has had we need to take a serious look at now, not when the Sydney Opera House is on fire, the West Gate Bridge is bombed or movie world gets gunned. Now.

The other affects which have taken place are quite obvious. The Euro, or any other sporting competition will almost certainly never be held again without maximum security. Almost every national holiday won't just be a day to celebrate, but a day to fear. Jews are leaving in droves. Gays, who fought so long to live their lives openly are going back or will start going back into the closet. Metal detectors are popping up and becoming more and more common. You can't draw what you want without getting death threats or a fatwa against your head. Women are being harassed and raped at a greater rate and are being forced to be far more careful than they otherwise would be. I imaging metal poles are going to be put up in crowded places to stop cars from ramming civilians but its all just a bandaid on the real issue.

Only a matter of time before they attack atheist rallies/meetups, NYE celebrations, liquor stores, annexing territory, firing rockets and release dirty bombs. Don't count on the Eiffel Tower always being there. You want to see it, go soon.

These aren't terrorist attacks. These are acts of war and its time we start treating them that way.
What's your solution apart from stemming immigration?
Yes a lot can change in 20 years, for instance Jews will be completely eradicated from Europe by then. Its only going to get worse. There have been as many terrorist attacks since the creation of ISIS (2013) than there was in the previous 20 years.* Do you honestly see this slowing down?


1) Investigate all mosques. Only that way can we see which ones are good and which ones need continuous monitoring
2) Deport all non citizens that are muslim
3) Import secular muslim leaders that share our values and allow them a platform to promote a new type of islam. See Majid Nawaz
4) Infiltrate their communities with spys. At least 5% of the population in these should be spies
5) Promote real muslim role models that can promote our values and build a model Muslim society for the rest of the world to envy.

We can only do these things once we declare war on Islam.

*Going off Wiki
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Islamist_terrorist_attacks
:shock:

1. Those sort of tactics are what they do in China but they still have issues. It drives people underground and they still have attacks.
2. Not a believer in Section 116 of the Australian constitution?


You dont know about xinjiang mate.
I do mate. Going to Urumqi end of August. Wish me luck!


If you like beer and tasty kebabs you will have a fine time! great people too.

Edited
9 Years Ago by luckee
GO


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