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Enzo Bearzot
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x[quote]I'm sure those tax cuts that overwhelmingly went to the rich and allowed companies to buyback their own stocks really helped the little guys. If you honestly believe that Trump is some Gracchi-type tribune of the plebs then you're a fucking gullible moron that fell for his faux-populist rhetoric. Policy outcomes don't really matter at all, it's all about aesthetics and appearing as though you care about the little guy. Why re you resorting to insults? I Do you have ANY idea of what the policy outcomes have been under Trump for the plebs Or is it that you hate Trump and follow what Hollywood, New York and Washington Media tell you and that's as far as you go?FYI: - 6 million jobs added - 500,000 manufacturing jobs added - lowest unemployment in 51 years - 7.6 million job vacancies ie more jobs than people to fill them - Blacks and Hispanics leading the job growth figures, with female Hispanics leading the way - The percentage of Americans living with income below the official poverty line went down to 11.8% of the population in 2018, the lowest level since 2001. - weekly earnings up 2.3 in rel terms - economic growth rate up 2% - food stamp recipients down 15% - 90% more Mexican border apprehensions (there's your Wall) - Home prices up 22% - Home ownership up - Stocks up 30 % - corporate profits up 7% - handgun production down 23% Any fool can spend their way out of trouble. Borrow trillions, give tax cuts left, right and centre and then fuck off into the sunset and let the next bloke worry about it. https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2019/10/25/us-deficit-hit-billion-marking-nearly-percent-increase-during-trump-era/If you think that's a left wing rag then how about Fox. https://www.foxnews.com/us/us-trade-gap-jumped-to-10-year-high-record-gap-with-chinaor this https://www.foxnews.com/politics/deficits-exploding-and-neither-party-seems-to-careor this https://www.foxnews.com/politics/govt-agency-predicts-trillion-dollar-deficits-for-the-foreseeable-futurethere's dozens of others if you'd care to educate yourself. Tax cuts, spending, and government borrowing money at record low interest is good for the economy More jobs, pay rises, home ownership, more economic opportunity for marginalized groups.less poverty, less crime See previous post on how that looks right now in the US.. If Labour spent like that you'd have a conniption but because Trump....reasons... Have I got that right? How many times have you banged on about Labour spending all of the government's surpluses and wasting the money saved and kicking the can down the road etc etc only for others to have to pick up the bill but for some bizarro reason it's OK for Trump to do it. 1.What is a surplus-its the government taxing more than they needed to run the country. I hate giving a cent more of my money to government than I am required to do, so a surplus?. F that. 2. There is good debt and bad debt. You borrow to buy a house=good debt. To start a business=good debt but more risk. Labor doesn't understand teh difference between good and bad debt. To them, its Someone Else's Money, so who cares? Are You seriously equalling house hold debt to governemnt debt? Its not the same . All governments are in debt. Surpluses are a furphy and are used to pork barrel. We need governments to spend not horde it. Because economics isn't your forte, think of it as your household budget. Can you keep spending more than you earn? You can for a while. And you can keep doing it in proportion to wage or income increases. If you buy a rental property, then that is good debt because your income increases along with your debt. But if you just keep borrowing for things that do not create income and your wage increases don't keep pace, then eventually you will not be able to service your loans and you will have to declare bankruptcy. You will lose everything including the roof over your head. So in order for the State to spend, it has to tax someone. Tax really isn't a problem. It's a necessity. It becomes a problem when Tax is too much and becomes a dissinsentive to investment and business. When it becomes a dissinsentive to business and corporations and also to productivity and workers, they start to cut back and what happens there is they reduce investing, reduce spending and reduce employment. Therefore tax receipts for the State decline further, thus compounding the problems and the deficit. That is why we can only sustainably spend and sustainably borrow. Otherwise what we are doing is actually robbing future generations and our own children. this is the reason why ScoMo won the elections. It's because the vast majority know how the household budget works. The vast majority are trying to balance their own budgets and its proving to be harder and harder. Again houseold debt is nowhere the same as government debt you imbecile. Sustainbly borrow ? You mean give out grants to companies that go bankrupt ? Or dont need Grants in the first place. Stop swallowing the Socialist Cool Aid . Someone always has to pay, one way or the other. Again See Greece. But I don't expect Socialists to understand the concept of Paying For It, because its always Someone Else's Money they spend, so it doesn't matter to them. Until it does. Lol you have no clue about government debt do you? Also we are not greece. Unless you want the lnp to borrow over What They can pay back. Even America is in debt. Spending it on infrastructue , health ,education et el is needed and not hording it to pork barrel people like you who only see oh money Unbelievable! You actually think Greece and the other Eurozone economies have different rules when it comes to debt. Every country has the potential to be a Greece. This country actually had better socialist programs than Australia did. It was very progressive in that it had a great pension system, free medical, university degrees were free and so on. Now look what has happened. It wasn't the only country of course - Spain, Portugal, Ireland and Cyprus were in the same boat. And Italy is on the verge and hanging on only just. The GFC hit many countries. I just can't believe how delusional you guys are. Please let me once again try and explain things to you in simple terms. You can only borrow for as long as you can service your debt. This applies to all countries. And even if you don't borrow and have a debt and go into recession, then the debt to GDP ratio increases. If you borrow on top of that, it increases further. And as the recession deepens, Government receipts tighten and decrease, thus reducing its ability to service its debt. This reduces the credit rating and increases the interest rate it needs to service, thus compounding things further. If the debts are not serviced, then countries will not accept your trade in your currency because the risk is it will become worthless as inflation increases. Then eventually, you have a meltdown and a banking crisis as property prices free fall, leaving all debts unsecured. Don't ever believe it will not happen in Australia. A credit crunch is inevitable in ALL countries. But the more debt there is, and the bigger the deficit, the worse the calamity. The Great Depression of the 1930s hit the global economy to point of famine. It WILL happen again. Nah man its all sorted: the Left will just Print More Money. MMT to the rescue- no need to pay off debts. We have our own currency. Other trade partners won't want their money. What can go wrong?
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Enzo Bearzot
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+xEnzo wrote:
Tarriffs don't work, right? Wrong. The Chines product now costs more so the US consumer might buy a competing product which is better value. This hurts the Chinese. If they buy the Chinese product anyway, the tax goes to the government and the money stays within the US to be spent on the US people. Either way the Chinese need to come to the party rather than undercutting the world with cheap labor and at the same time opening ther markets to the world
You are so ridiculous. If Labour wanted to introduce tariffs you'd be calling them communists for wanting to interfere in the free market but when Trump does it well that's OK. Trump loves telling everyone he's taxing the Chinese but tariffs are a tax on US consumers. It's just that his supporters are too dopey to understand how tariffs actually work. 1. I have no problem with applying tariifs to Chinese goods because theirs is not a free market 2. I've explained how tariffs work: The US consumer either buys a competing product to the Chinese one- which hurts China- or they buy the Chinese one and the US government collects the tax- which helps the US. Heads they win, tails China loses. 3. The US consumer can buy alternative consumer junk. But the Chinese need to eat and the US is the biggest market for their junk which they need to sell to buy food to feed 1.4 billion mouths.
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433
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So by Enzos logic, if I have $100 and invest it and turn it into $1 billion, that is less impressive than turning $1 billion into $2 billion.
Never stop being you mate 😂
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Muz
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+xTrump riding on Obama's coat tail? What a joke.. The old government gets 6 months credit and the new one 6 months grace. That's politics. The reason why the jobs growth is slowing is because there aren't enough PEOPLE to fill them!. Its basically FULL employment under Trump! Oh and my how the Lefties do LOVE their percentages! In Jan 2009 when Obama was elected, the Dow was sitting on 8000 points. In 2013 it was up to 15000 points, a gain of 7000. When Trump got in in 2016 it was 17,000. Its now at 28,000 a gain of 11000 points. Don't give me percentages. A doubling of something smaller is still something smaller. LoL. You are a dead set parody of yourself now. 433 is 100% correct. Only in your mind would you think a 64% (28000 from 17000) increase is better than a 88% increase.15000 from 8000.) You've been utterly schooled with your 'stats' on how well Trump is doing only to be shown up by actual facts per the linked articles above. I'd bet you a penny to a pound you didn't even read one of those articles. At least try and appear not to be an ignoramus just for once. I mean just read one. This one is a good start. https://www.factcheck.org/2019/11/trumps-economic-falsehoods/And stop repeating the 'just print more money' schtick. No one here has suggested this once.
Member since 2008.
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Muz
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Dear Enzo, 3rd opportunity to answer this question seeing you have ignored my 2 previous attempts. Irrespective of your politics though in what sort of alternate reality that you live in is it acceptable to ask a foreign power to investigate your opponent? He, by his own admission, openly asked a foreign power to interfere in the domestic politics of the US.
Member since 2008.
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Burztur
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+x+xTrump riding on Obama's coat tail? What a joke.. The old government gets 6 months credit and the new one 6 months grace. That's politics. The reason why the jobs growth is slowing is because there aren't enough PEOPLE to fill them!. Its basically FULL employment under Trump! Oh and my how the Lefties do LOVE their percentages! In Jan 2009 when Obama was elected, the Dow was sitting on 8000 points. In 2013 it was up to 15000 points, a gain of 7000. When Trump got in in 2016 it was 17,000. Its now at 28,000 a gain of 11000 points. Don't give me percentages. A doubling of something smaller is still something smaller. LoL. You are a dead set parody of yourself now. 433 is 100% correct. Only in your mind would you think a 64% (28000 from 17000) increase is better than a 88% increase.15000 from 8000.) You've been utterly schooled with your 'stats' on how well Trump is doing only to be shown up by actual facts per the linked articles above. I'd bet you a penny to a pound you didn't even read one of those articles. At least try and appear not to be an ignoramus just for once. I mean just read one. This one is a good start. https://www.factcheck.org/2019/11/trumps-economic-falsehoods/And stop repeating the 'just print more money' schtick. No one here has suggested this once. I'll add that by Enzo's logic, nearly every preceding president will not be as good as the subsequent one (i.e. Obama was better than every other president before him since the Dow was higher under Obama...
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paulbagzFC
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Imagine using stock markets as a measure of how good a leader of a country is. -PB
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Burztur
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+xImagine using stock markets as a measure of how good a leader of a country is. -PB George Washington was a shit leader...
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paulbagzFC
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Fucking Jim Jordan is hilariously out of depth. -PB
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ErogenousZone
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Iran has shut off it's Internet amid violent protests in which hundreds have been killed.
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Burztur
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+xIran has shut off it's Internet amid violent protests in which hundreds have been killed. Seems like there is civil unrest everywhere.
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paulbagzFC
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+xIran has shut off it's Internet amid violent protests in which hundreds have been killed. Ayyy maybe the public will learn now that they live with k*nts. -PB
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Enzo Bearzot
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+xSo by Enzos logic, if I have $100 and invest it and turn it into $1 billion, that is less impressive than turning $1 billion into $2 billion. Never stop being you mate 😂 You don't do context, do you? The Dow had halved when Obama took over. By your logic, if I had $1 mill, lost half then got it back I made half a $mill. 😂 Also the rate of increase of the Dow is steeper under Trump
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Enzo Bearzot
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+x+xTrump riding on Obama's coat tail? What a joke.. The old government gets 6 months credit and the new one 6 months grace. That's politics. The reason why the jobs growth is slowing is because there aren't enough PEOPLE to fill them!. Its basically FULL employment under Trump! Oh and my how the Lefties do LOVE their percentages! In Jan 2009 when Obama was elected, the Dow was sitting on 8000 points. In 2013 it was up to 15000 points, a gain of 7000. When Trump got in in 2016 it was 17,000. Its now at 28,000 a gain of 11000 points. Don't give me percentages. A doubling of something smaller is still something smaller. LoL. You are a dead set parody of yourself now. 433 is 100% correct. Only in your mind would you think a 64% (28000 from 17000) increase is better than a 88% increase.15000 from 8000.) You've been utterly schooled with your 'stats' on how well Trump is doing only to be shown up by actual facts per the linked articles above. I'd bet you a penny to a pound you didn't even read one of those articles. At least try and appear not to be an ignoramus just for once. I mean just read one. This one is a good start. https://www.factcheck.org/2019/11/trumps-economic-falsehoods/And stop repeating the 'just print more money' schtick. No one here has suggested this once. I read your bullshit opinion articles that deliberately misinform : The first 3 talk about the rate of jobs growth between Obama and Trump. Obama was in power when there were millions more people out of work. As these people gets jobs, the number of people looking for jobs falls. Its impossible to maintain the same rate of jobs growth when you have less people looking for jobs In fact there are MORE jobs availabel then people to fill them! "One reason employment growth has slowed is a shortage of qualified workers.The number of unfilled job openings hit more than 7.6 million in November and again in January, the highest in the 18 years the BLS has tracked this figure.As of the last day of August, the most recent figure on record, it was nearly 7.1 million. That’s a gain of 1.4 million unfilled job openings — or 25.4% — since Trump took office.In March of last year the number of job openings exceeded the number of unemployed people looking for work for the first time on record. And that’s been the case in every month since. In August, there were 1 million more job openings than there were people seeking jobs." https://www.factcheck.org/2019/10/trumps-numbers-october-2019-update/I
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Enzo Bearzot
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+xDear Enzo, 3rd opportunity to answer this question seeing you have ignored my 2 previous attempts. Irrespective of your politics though in what sort of alternate reality that you live in is it acceptable to ask a foreign power to investigate your opponent? He, by his own admission, openly asked a foreign power to interfere in the domestic politics of the US. Biden admitted he witheld $1 billion dollars from the Ukraine until they removed Ukraines lead prosecuter. from office on the basis that Biden claimed the prosecutor wasn't doing his job in investigating corruption to Biden's satisfaction. ""I looked at them and said: 'I’m leaving in six hours. If the prosecutor is not fired, you’re not getting the money. Well, son of a bitch. He got fired." https://www.cfr.org/event/foreign-affairs-issue-launch-former-vice-president-joe-bidenBiden's son was getting paid $50,000 per month working for a Ukaine business that had previously been fined for corruption. Are you saying its COMPLETELY out of order for the US President to ignore the obvious conflict of interest that this situation presents and not even so as much ask to investigate if the man running for US President might have abused his role to protect his son's interests?
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paulbagzFC
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+x+xSo by Enzos logic, if I have $100 and invest it and turn it into $1 billion, that is less impressive than turning $1 billion into $2 billion. Never stop being you mate 😂 You don't do context, do you? The Dow had halved when Obama took over. By your logic, if I had $1 mill, lost half then got it back I made half a $mill. 😂 Also the rate of increase of the Dow is steeper under Trump Because he took over during the financial crisis?... https://fortune.com/2019/06/03/stock-market-trump-obama-sp-500/https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/101314/where-was-dow-jones-when-obama-took-office.asp-PB
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paulbagzFC
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Fucking rofl  -PB
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Enzo Bearzot
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so he had the potential of a bigger upswing as confidence returned.
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Enzo Bearzot
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"KIEV, November 20. /TASS/. The Ukrainian Office of the Prosecutor General has drawn up an indictment against the owner of the Burisma Holdings energy company, ex-Ecology Minister Nikolai Zlochevsky, that contains information that the son of former US Vice President Joe Biden, Hunter, as a Burisma board member along with his partners received $16.5 million for their services, Ukrainian Verkhovna Rada MP from the ruling Servant of the People party Alexander Dubinsky told a press conference on Wednesday, citing the investigation’s materials. According to him, the money came from duplicitous criminal activity." https://tass.com/world/1090971
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paulbagzFC
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+xso he had the potential of a bigger upswing as confidence returned. Did you read either link? :/ -PB
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Enzo Bearzot
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+x+xso he had the potential of a bigger upswing as confidence returned. Did you read either link? :/ -PB Yes.
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Muz
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+x+xDear Enzo, 3rd opportunity to answer this question seeing you have ignored my 2 previous attempts. Irrespective of your politics though in what sort of alternate reality that you live in is it acceptable to ask a foreign power to investigate your opponent? He, by his own admission, openly asked a foreign power to interfere in the domestic politics of the US. Biden admitted he witheld $1 billion dollars from the Ukraine until they removed Ukraines lead prosecuter. from office on the basis that Biden claimed the prosecutor wasn't doing his job in investigating corruption to Biden's satisfaction. ""I looked at them and said: 'I’m leaving in six hours. If the prosecutor is not fired, you’re not getting the money. Well, son of a bitch. He got fired." https://www.cfr.org/event/foreign-affairs-issue-launch-former-vice-president-joe-bidenBiden's son was getting paid $50,000 per month working for a Ukaine business that had previously been fined for corruption. Are you saying its COMPLETELY out of order for the US President to ignore the obvious conflict of interest that this situation presents and not even so as much ask to investigate if the man running for US President might have abused his role to protect his son's interests? LoL. Biden withheld $1 billion dollars because they were tryng to root out corruption. Trump withheld $400 million so they could did up dirt on his opponent. Openly, and has admitted as much, that he asked a foreign power to meddle in their election campaign to his advantage. That's a crime and an impeachable offence. Trump is a criminal. Biden's son is a sideshow some nutjob with a tin foil hat dreamt up which was picked up by Fox News which Trump then bought hook, line and sinker. Would love to see how you spin today's testimony by Sondland. Sondland, who bought his ambassadorship with a $1 million donation to Trump's election campaign, threw Trump, Pence and the rest of them under a bus today. This is no 'never Trumper' this is a massive donor to Trump. 'Even the most feverish mind could not paint Sondland as a "Never Trumper" or a member of the "deep state".'
https://www.smh.com.au/world/north-america/trump-s-magical-impeachment-defence-crumbles-as-ambassador-saves-himself-20191121-p53cms.htmlEnzo could of course.
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Enzo Bearzot
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You're a funny person Muz. Joe Pescci in goodfellas "funny" "Sondland said he became convinced the release of aid was tied to the investigations. But Trump never told him this; it was simply an educated guess on his part."
That quote is from the article you linked to yourself The problem with Lefties like yourself is that you don't do facts. You don't understand the difference between opinion and evidence. Sondland can guess all he likes. Here's a running tally of the witnesses presented so far. 1. Taylor ( The Dems Star Witness) and Kent: "The problem with Taylor and Kent's testimony is that Trump remained a peripheral and largely mysterious figure throughout" https://www.theage.com.au/world/north-america/impeachment-hearings-damning-for-trump-but-lacks-fireworks-democrats-need-20191114-p53ah7.html2. Marie Yovanovitch "Her testimony alone would not be sufficient grounds for impeachment" https://www.smh.com.au/world/north-america/trump-s-tweeting-turns-a-bad-day-into-a-disaster-20191116-p53b6b.html3. Sondland. "Sondland said he became convinced the release of aid was tied to the investigations. But Trump never told him this; it was simply an educated guess on his part."And you think that will amount to the criminal conviction of a sitting President? 😂 😂 😂
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Enzo Bearzot
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Oh Muz:
"Pesident Trump never told me directly that the aid was tied to that statement . . . . I did not have a conversation with him ( President Trump ) about the aid " Sondland then stated that he asked Trump " What do you want from Ukraine ?" and added that Trump replied " I want nothing from Ukraine. I want no quid pro quo. Tell Zelensky to do the right thing." concluding " That's all I got from President Trump."
In response to this question from Congressman Turner " No one on this planet told you that President Trump was tying aid to investigations ? . . . You really have no testimony today that ties President Trump to a scheme to withhold aid from Ukraine in exchange for these investigations ( into Biden )." " Other than my own presumption. " Sondland said in reply.
How's that Nothing Burger tasting?
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Enzo Bearzot
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But wait there's more: Ukraine has widened its investigation into the founder of energy company Burisma to include suspicion of embezzling state funds, Prosecutor General Ruslan Ryaboshapka said on Wednesday.
Allegations of wrongdoing at Burisma go to the heart of a U.S. impeachment inquiry into whether President Donald Trump improperly pressured Ukraine’s leadership to investigate his main rival in the 2020 presidential race.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-impeachment-burisma/ukraine-widens-probe-against-burisma-founder-to-embezzlement-of-state-funds-idUSKBN1XU2N7
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paulbagzFC
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+xAnd you think that will amount to the criminal conviction of a sitting President? 😂 😂 😂 Well no, because that can't happen lol -PB
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paulbagzFC
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Things in Israel are a mess lol. Wonder how this will affect the third election, and if Netanyahu can even stand for it. -PB
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mouflonrouge
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+xThings in Israel are a mess lol. Wonder how this will affect the third election, and if Netanyahu can even stand for it. -PB I'm heading over there next month. Israel always gets out of these situations because the people are united. So many enemies of the state really pulls Israel together as its a matter of survival because of the holocaust.
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mouflonrouge
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+xDear Enzo, 3rd opportunity to answer this question seeing you have ignored my 2 previous attempts. Irrespective of your politics though in what sort of alternate reality that you live in is it acceptable to ask a foreign power to investigate your opponent? He, by his own admission, openly asked a foreign power to interfere in the domestic politics of the US. I don't see a problem with it. I certainly do not think its an impeachable thing. You guys just keep clutching at straws. Look, trump is very lovely and awesome and done many great things including all the rivers of salt he has created
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433
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+x+xSo by Enzos logic, if I have $100 and invest it and turn it into $1 billion, that is less impressive than turning $1 billion into $2 billion. Never stop being you mate 😂 You don't do context, do you? The Dow had halved when Obama took over. By your logic, if I had $1 mill, lost half then got it back I made half a $mill. 😂 Also the rate of increase of the Dow is steeper under Trump Genuine question, are you trolling or that fucking stupid that you blame Obama for the financial meltdown - something that happened before he took office?
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