The Aussies Abroad Thread


The Aussies Abroad Thread

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johnszasz
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Bunch of Hacks - 22 Feb 2020 9:23 PM
scott20won - 21 Feb 2020 7:11 PM

I HATE this logic - its completely flawed and closed minded!!!! This assumes that all selection decisions are 100% correct, 100% of the time and are a true indication of known ability. In reality like life, ones football career is random chaotic fuckery of right place and right time 'Sliding doors type'  situation and also ability is not a concrete set level - ie it fluctuatates game to game due to a players form, fitness, emotions , physical state, mindset, suitability to tactics, suitability to the opponent - and then how well a player 'performs' is totally subjective and a matter of a coaches perception. Lennon for instance doesnt seem to rate Rogic that highly (in both his coachin stints) wheras with Deila and Rogers he was close to the first player picked when fit. Nicky carle was the star player for Bristol who made the championship playoffs, transfers to a lower club in Crystal palace for what was a decent fee for 2nd tier in those days, then barely plays. Nothing is constant, nothing is certain and 100% known.

Saying a players level he is playing is his true level is absolutely idiotic - with that mindset Ian Wright and Jamie Vardy would have never left lower league football, Sheringham at Millwall his whole career instead of moving to the top flight at 25 - but someone needed to look outside of the "if they were good enough they'd already be playing at a higher standard" mindset and then take a punt on these guys! 

The reality is Sainsbury has played at a very good level internationally (Asian cup Final, Confeds cup, World cup) and performed very well according to most peoples perceptions - thus its entirely plausible that he could perform well at a similar club level, yet has never been given an extended chance to show that when he was at inter and then PSV   

   

My gripe is how quickly some of our players get written off. Meanwhile others get played again and again only to get caught out. Schwaab has been poor for PSV this season. Sainsbury was never exactly bad at PSV. He was very easily a scapegoat. So much needs to fit for a player to do well. James Holland is in such a situation now where it's going swimmingly. 

Unfortunately Behich is another who has evidently made two poor moves in a row but would walk into many others teams when at the top of his game. 
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Maty & Mooy starting at Sheffield United. 
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Jovanovic starting for Zeljeznicar,  no sign of Susnjar.


By now, American Samoa must have realised that Australias 22-0 win over Tonga two days earlier was no fluke.

Edited
5 Years Ago by playmaker11
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Balin Trev - 22 Feb 2020 8:14 PM

Nice edit 👌 I will be happier when the Socceroos are back at full strength or ranked in top 30 again- that aint gonna happen unless they ALL get playing regular 1st team football in decent to good leagues overseas cos the HAL sure aint in good shape these days 

Glad to hear 🙂

🇮🇪Hail Hail🇮🇪

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Balin Trev - 22 Feb 2020 7:21 PM
kaufusi - 21 Feb 2020 10:55 AM

I like the words above BrisbaneBhoy. some Socceroos fans want even MORE ‘success’ for the players than they currently have so far/atm 

???
Am I missing something here??

🇮🇪Hail Hail🇮🇪

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You guys need to find a new great Hope. Because Sainsbury isn’t going to deliver on your dreams.
Edited
5 Years Ago by scott20won
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Bunch of Hacks - 22 Feb 2020 9:23 PM
scott20won - 21 Feb 2020 7:11 PM

I HATE this logic - its completely flawed and closed minded!!!! This assumes that all selection decisions are 100% correct, 100% of the time and are a true indication of known ability. In reality like life, ones football career is random chaotic fuckery of right place and right time 'Sliding doors type'  situation and also ability is not a concrete set level - ie it fluctuatates game to game due to a players form, fitness, emotions , physical state, mindset, suitability to tactics, suitability to the opponent - and then how well a player 'performs' is totally subjective and a matter of a coaches perception. Lennon for instance doesnt seem to rate Rogic that highly (in both his coachin stints) wheras with Deila and Rogers he was close to the first player picked when fit. Nicky carle was the star player for Bristol who made the championship playoffs, transfers to a lower club in Crystal palace for what was a decent fee for 2nd tier in those days, then barely plays. Nothing is constant, nothing is certain and 100% known.

Saying a players level he is playing is his true level is absolutely idiotic - with that mindset Ian Wright and Jamie Vardy would have never left lower league football, Sheringham at Millwall his whole career instead of moving to the top flight at 25 - but someone needed to look outside of the "if they were good enough they'd already be playing at a higher standard" mindset and then take a punt on these guys! 

The reality is Sainsbury has played at a very good level internationally (Asian cup Final, Confeds cup, World cup) and performed very well according to most peoples perceptions - thus its entirely plausible that he could perform well at a similar club level, yet has never been given an extended chance to show that when he was at inter and then PSV   

   

👍 Yes indeed yet again 
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Bunch of Hacks - 22 Feb 2020 9:23 PM
scott20won - 21 Feb 2020 7:11 PM

I HATE this logic - its completely flawed and closed minded!!!! This assumes that all selection decisions are 100% correct, 100% of the time and are a true indication of known ability. In reality like life, ones football career is random chaotic fuckery of right place and right time 'Sliding doors type'  situation and also ability is not a concrete set level - ie it fluctuatates game to game due to a players form, fitness, emotions , physical state, mindset, suitability to tactics, suitability to the opponent - and then how well a player 'performs' is totally subjective and a matter of a coaches perception. Lennon for instance doesnt seem to rate Rogic that highly (in both his coachin stints) wheras with Deila and Rogers he was close to the first player picked when fit. Nicky carle was the star player for Bristol who made the championship playoffs, transfers to a lower club in Crystal palace for what was a decent fee for 2nd tier in those days, then barely plays. Nothing is constant, nothing is certain and 100% known.

Saying a players level he is playing is his true level is absolutely idiotic - with that mindset Ian Wright and Jamie Vardy would have never left lower league football, Sheringham at Millwall his whole career instead of moving to the top flight at 25 - but someone needed to look outside of the "if they were good enough they'd already be playing at a higher standard" mindset and then take a punt on these guys! 

The reality is Sainsbury has played at a very good level internationally (Asian cup Final, Confeds cup, World cup) and performed very well according to most peoples perceptions - thus its entirely plausible that he could perform well at a similar club level, yet has never been given an extended chance to show that when he was at inter and then PSV   

   

Spot on! So many people don't seem to understand this.
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Bunch of Hacks - 22 Feb 2020 9:23 PM
scott20won - 21 Feb 2020 7:11 PM

I HATE this logic - its completely flawed and closed minded!!!! This assumes that all selection decisions are 100% correct, 100% of the time and are a true indication of known ability. In reality like life, ones football career is random chaotic fuckery of right place and right time 'Sliding doors type'  situation and also ability is not a concrete set level - ie it fluctuatates game to game due to a players form, fitness, emotions , physical state, mindset, suitability to tactics, suitability to the opponent - and then how well a player 'performs' is totally subjective and a matter of a coaches perception. Lennon for instance doesnt seem to rate Rogic that highly (in both his coachin stints) wheras with Deila and Rogers he was close to the first player picked when fit. Nicky carle was the star player for Bristol who made the championship playoffs, transfers to a lower club in Crystal palace for what was a decent fee for 2nd tier in those days, then barely plays. Nothing is constant, nothing is certain and 100% known.

Saying a players level he is playing is his true level is absolutely idiotic - with that mindset Ian Wright and Jamie Vardy would have never left lower league football, Sheringham at Millwall his whole career instead of moving to the top flight at 25 - but someone needed to look outside of the "if they were good enough they'd already be playing at a higher standard" mindset and then take a punt on these guys! 

The reality is Sainsbury has played at a very good level internationally (Asian cup Final, Confeds cup, World cup) and performed very well according to most peoples perceptions - thus its entirely plausible that he could perform well at a similar club level, yet has never been given an extended chance to show that when he was at inter and then PSV   

   

Meh

this whole he had a good game here and there doesn’t translate to consistency. 

Training at Inter is better than playing in China remember. Anyway, his career is on a downhill trajectory and he will be playing for SFC post 2022 WC whether we qualify or not
Edited
5 Years Ago by scott20won
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scott20won - 21 Feb 2020 7:11 PM
Balin Trev - 21 Feb 2020 5:39 PM

If he was good enough a better team from a better league would better his pay.

I HATE this logic - its completely flawed and closed minded!!!! This assumes that all selection decisions are 100% correct, 100% of the time and are a true indication of known ability. In reality like life, ones football career is random chaotic fuckery of right place and right time 'Sliding doors type'  situation and also ability is not a concrete set level - ie it fluctuatates game to game due to a players form, fitness, emotions , physical state, mindset, suitability to tactics, suitability to the opponent - and then how well a player 'performs' is totally subjective and a matter of a coaches perception. Lennon for instance doesnt seem to rate Rogic that highly (in both his coachin stints) wheras with Deila and Rogers he was close to the first player picked when fit. Nicky carle was the star player for Bristol who made the championship playoffs, transfers to a lower club in Crystal palace for what was a decent fee for 2nd tier in those days, then barely plays. Nothing is constant, nothing is certain and 100% known.

Saying a players level he is playing is his true level is absolutely idiotic - with that mindset Ian Wright and Jamie Vardy would have never left lower league football, Sheringham at Millwall his whole career instead of moving to the top flight at 25 - but someone needed to look outside of the "if they were good enough they'd already be playing at a higher standard" mindset and then take a punt on these guys! 

The reality is Sainsbury has played at a very good level internationally (Asian cup Final, Confeds cup, World cup) and performed very well according to most peoples perceptions - thus its entirely plausible that he could perform well at a similar club level, yet has never been given an extended chance to show that when he was at inter and then PSV   

   
Edited
5 Years Ago by Bunch of Hacks
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Bunch of Hacks - 22 Feb 2020 8:59 PM
scott20won - 21 Feb 2020 5:33 PM

Disagree with this. The Israeli league is ranked lowly by UEFA and ELO. The Swiss league in comparison for which Sainsbury played in less than 2 years ago as captain of his mid table club (even though his was only on loan!) is ranked much higher than the Israeli league.  When Sains was at Grasshoppers they were rated at about 1450 on ELO  in comparison his current team are 1402. Again for comparison Degenek's Red star are 1542 and we all know as socceroos fans that Sainsbury is the better of the  CB's. 

So definitely i think Sainsbury is playin far beneath his 'true level' . I'd argue that he'd be a starter at any club up to the 1600 mark which is all clubs in Netherlands outside the big 4, 7th and below in the french 10th and below in the italian and 5th and below in the Portuguese - and thats the current Sainsbury i think in his pomp around 2016 could have started for anyone up to the 1650 mark. 

He took the Maccabi move after a season and half of being on the bench so cant blame him for wanting absolutely guaranteed game time  but he def is playing at an easier standard than he is used to and where he was previously a starter (PEC and grasshoppers)

👋 👍
Yes indeed
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scott20won - 21 Feb 2020 5:33 PM
Balin Trev - 21 Feb 2020 5:26 PM

Sainsbury plays at the best level for him to get consistent game time.

Disagree with this. The Israeli league is ranked lowly by UEFA and ELO. The Swiss league in comparison for which Sainsbury played in less than 2 years ago as captain of his mid table club (even though his was only on loan!) is ranked much higher than the Israeli league.  When Sains was at Grasshoppers they were rated at about 1450 on ELO  in comparison his current team are 1402. Again for comparison Degenek's Red star are 1542 and we all know as socceroos fans that Sainsbury is the better of the  CB's. 

So definitely i think Sainsbury is playin far beneath his 'true level' . I'd argue that he'd be a starter at any club up to the 1600 mark which is all clubs in Netherlands outside the big 4, 7th and below in the french 10th and below in the italian and 5th and below in the Portuguese - and thats the current Sainsbury i think in his pomp around 2016 could have started for anyone up to the 1650 mark. 

He took the Maccabi move after a season and half of being on the bench so cant blame him for wanting absolutely guaranteed game time  but he def is playing at an easier standard than he is used to and where he was previously a starter (PEC and grasshoppers)
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BrisbaneBhoy - 22 Feb 2020 10:57 AM
Balin Trev - 22 Feb 2020 10:30 AM

Could it be that you just believe he is better than he actually is??  Or that the League he plays in, is better than you believe it to be?? Has that ever crossed your mind??  Maybe the Israeli League is his level - Which is a very good level, especially as he is playing for Maccabi Haifa, one of the strongest clubs in Israel.

You say playing regular first team football is the most important thing for a footballer.  That is what Sainsbury is doing for the first time in a long time. He has been playing nearly every match since signing for Maccabi Haifa.

He is doing what you say is the most important thing for a footballer, but you still feel the need to whinge, and blame others because it's not at the level you perceive he should be at.


EDIT:  Are you ever happy??

Nice edit 👌 I will be happier when the Socceroos are back at full strength or ranked in top 30 again- that aint gonna happen unless they ALL get playing regular 1st team football in decent to good leagues overseas cos the HAL sure aint in good shape these days 
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Balin Trev - 22 Feb 2020 7:14 PM
Derider - 22 Feb 2020 5:23 PM

Yep 👍 

Have either of you ever watched an Israeli game? Know any Israeli players or players who have come out of the Israeli League? I doubt it. He’s getting regular football at a good club in a decent league. 
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Bunch of Hacks - 22 Feb 2020 7:29 PM
kaufusi - 21 Feb 2020 10:55 AM

Luongo is a starter now. Rogic is getting ok minutes (plays cup games, sub on for league) which is probably what is needed with him as his body cant handle the heavy workload. Sainsbury is close to his teams best player and plays every minute. 

And Arzani?!
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kaufusi - 21 Feb 2020 10:55 AM
johnszasz - 21 Feb 2020 10:40 AM

This headline could be placed on half the socceroos squad sadly. 

But for Leckie he sure as hell needs a move asap! As does Rogic. Arzani. Sainsbury. Luongo. Behich. Smith. Irvine can probably last a little longer now he's captain. 

Luongo is a starter now. Rogic is getting ok minutes (plays cup games, sub on for league) which is probably what is needed with him as his body cant handle the heavy workload. Sainsbury is close to his teams best player and plays every minute. 
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kaufusi - 21 Feb 2020 10:55 AM
johnszasz - 21 Feb 2020 10:40 AM

This headline could be placed on half the socceroos squad sadly. 

But for Leckie he sure as hell needs a move asap! As does Rogic. Arzani. Sainsbury. Luongo. Behich. Smith. Irvine can probably last a little longer now he's captain. 

I like the words above BrisbaneBhoy. some Socceroos fans want even MORE ‘success’ for the players than they currently have so far/atm 
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Derider - 22 Feb 2020 5:23 PM
BrisbaneBhoy - 22 Feb 2020 10:57 AM

I honestly don’t know anymore after seeing his recent Socceroos performances, but dammit, Sainsbury used to look a lot better than Israel. He was a calming influence in our defence, someone I trusted. Dunno why he’s regressed so steeply.

Yep 👍 
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BrisbaneBhoy - 22 Feb 2020 10:57 AM
Balin Trev - 22 Feb 2020 10:30 AM

Could it be that you just believe he is better than he actually is?? 

I honestly don’t know anymore after seeing his recent Socceroos performances, but dammit, Sainsbury used to look a lot better than Israel. He was a calming influence in our defence, someone I trusted. Dunno why he’s regressed so steeply.

Edited
5 Years Ago by Derider
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lukerobinho - 22 Feb 2020 3:55 PM
BrisbaneBhoy - 22 Feb 2020 2:30 PM

it's also possible that a buyer overpays for one house and underestimates the value of another 

True, and also that a seller may receive more than the odds in one instance but regrets one they had to let go cheaply in another. The point is, the ‘worth’ of either house is not determined by the pre-sale price.
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BrisbaneBhoy - 22 Feb 2020 2:30 PM
CanberraHarry - 22 Feb 2020 2:11 PM

👏👏👏
Hammer. Nail. Head.
Spot on. Well said.

it's also possible that a buyer overpays for one house and underestimates the value of another 
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CanberraHarry - 22 Feb 2020 2:11 PM
BrisbaneBhoy - 22 Feb 2020 10:57 AM

A house is only worth what a buyer is actually willing to pay for it, not what the seller thinks they are entitled to. A player is only good enough for the club that actually plays him, not the club he or his fans think he should be playing at. The house seller can bargain or hold out and look for other buyers. Similarly, the player can take matters into their own hand and either earn the spot they think they deserve, or move on. 

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Spot on. Well said.

🇮🇪Hail Hail🇮🇪

Edited
5 Years Ago by BrisbaneBhoy
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BrisbaneBhoy - 22 Feb 2020 10:57 AM
Balin Trev - 22 Feb 2020 10:30 AM

Could it be that you just believe he is better then he actually is??  Has that ever crossed your mind??  Maybe the Israeli League is his level - Which is a very good level, especially has he is playing for Maccabi Haifa, one of the strongest clubs in Israel.

You say playing regular first team football is the most important thing for a footballer.  That is what Sainsbury is doing for the first time in a long time. He has been playing nearly every match since signing for Maccabi Haifa.

He is doing what you say is the most important thing for a footballer, but you still need to whinge and blame others because it's not at the level you perceive he should be at.

A house is only worth what a buyer is actually willing to pay for it, not what the seller thinks they are entitled to. A player is only good enough for the club that actually plays him, not the club he or his fans think he should be playing at. The house seller can bargain or hold out and look for other buyers. Similarly, the player can take matters into their own hand and either earn the spot they think they deserve, or move on. 
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Balin Trev - 22 Feb 2020 10:30 AM
BrisbaneBhoy - 22 Feb 2020 10:15 AM

Sainsbury is better than Israeli standards. Leckie deserves to make Bundis squads at least. And Rogic and Arzani should leave celtic asap for their own futures sake. Nothing is more important to a players career than regular 1st team game time- nothing.

Could it be that you just believe he is better than he actually is??  Or that the League he plays in, is better than you believe it to be?? Has that ever crossed your mind??  Maybe the Israeli League is his level - Which is a very good level, especially as he is playing for Maccabi Haifa, one of the strongest clubs in Israel.

You say playing regular first team football is the most important thing for a footballer.  That is what Sainsbury is doing for the first time in a long time. He has been playing nearly every match since signing for Maccabi Haifa.

He is doing what you say is the most important thing for a footballer, but you still feel the need to whinge, and blame others because it's not at the level you perceive he should be at.


EDIT:  Are you ever happy??

🇮🇪Hail Hail🇮🇪

Edited
5 Years Ago by BrisbaneBhoy
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Balin Trev - 22 Feb 2020 10:30 AM
BrisbaneBhoy - 22 Feb 2020 10:15 AM

Sainsbury is better than Israeli standards. Leckie deserves to make Bundis squads at least. And Rogic and Arzani should leave celtic asap for their own futures sake. Nothing is more important to a players career than regular 1st team game time- nothing.

something something HOLY TRINITY!

 




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BrisbaneBhoy - 22 Feb 2020 10:15 AM
Balin Trev - 22 Feb 2020 9:12 AM


Sainsbury is currently playing most matches (and minutes) for his club, yet you don't seem happy for him either.

Has it ever crossed your mind that the player(s) may be part of the problem for them not getting the minutes you believe that they are entitled too?? Or that you believe that they (the players) are better then what they actually are??

Sainsbury is better than Israeli standards. Leckie deserves to make Bundis squads at least. And Rogic and Arzani should leave celtic asap for their own futures sake. Nothing is more important to a players career than regular 1st team game time- nothing.
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Balin Trev - 22 Feb 2020 9:12 AM
BrisbaneBhoy - 22 Feb 2020 8:25 AM

Well the WCUP is only the biggest football event in the world... and given that Australian players are finding it so hard to get game time in uk/Europe atm i like to mention it as a reminder of the quality they can show against some top players. 
You put Far too much time/effort into defending justified criticism by people (not just me!) on this AUSTRALIAN Football forum (or is it a Defend criticism of Neil Lennon forum?!) of coaches that don’t play our Socceroos enough... Your post above is implying that we should all just say nothing and just give up cos Socceroos players are just not worthy. Without Rogic and Arzani in squads I couldn’t give a pinch of shit about Lennon and celtic winning a crappy SPL game 5-0...


Sainsbury is currently playing most matches (and minutes) for his club, yet you don't seem happy for him either.

Has it ever crossed your mind that the player(s) may be part of the problem for them not getting the minutes you believe that they are entitled too?? Or that you believe that they (the players) are better then what they actually are??

🇮🇪Hail Hail🇮🇪

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BrisbaneBhoy - 22 Feb 2020 8:25 AM
Balin Trev - 21 Feb 2020 5:26 PM

You put far to much value on playing in a World Cup. Especially one that was played nearly 2 years ago.

A lot of the players who are currently ahead of some of those Caltex players are also International players. Some of which may have also played in the same World Cup you keep going on about.  Others play against some of the top National Teams every year with all the International Tournaments and Qualifiers that are played throughout the year and world.

Well the WCUP is only the biggest football event in the world... and given that Australian players are finding it so hard to get game time in uk/Europe atm i like to mention it as a reminder of the quality they can show against some top players. 
You put Far too much time/effort into defending justified criticism by people (not just me!) on this AUSTRALIAN Football forum (or is it a Defend criticism of Neil Lennon forum?!) of coaches that don’t play our Socceroos enough... Your post above is implying that we should all just say nothing and just give up cos Socceroos players are just not worthy. Without Rogic and Arzani in squads I couldn’t give a pinch of shit about Lennon and celtic winning a crappy SPL game 5-0...

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Balin Trev - 21 Feb 2020 5:26 PM
kaufusi - 21 Feb 2020 10:55 AM

Leckie may have peaked already and is now ‘winding down’ a little? But gotta love all these Euro f*ckwit coaches that won’t give game time to Socceroos that have played in World Cups- some of them even played well (especially Sains against France) But still not good enough apparently to play some minutes in run-of-the-mill Dutch, Bundis, SPL league matches...

You put far to much value on playing in a World Cup. Especially one that was played nearly 2 years ago.

A lot of the players who are currently ahead of some of those Caltex players are also International players. Some of which may have also played in the same World Cup you keep going on about.  Others play against some of the top National Teams every year with all the International Tournaments and Qualifiers that are played throughout the year and world.

🇮🇪Hail Hail🇮🇪

Edited
5 Years Ago by BrisbaneBhoy
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playmaker11 - 22 Feb 2020 2:18 AM
Teague starting for Family Cow U23

Famalicao...
GO


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