Hi forumites.

I hope I don't upset mariners supporters with this post but here goes.

After spending last week staying in Parramatta for Adelaide's match with the wanderers and also venturing over to Manly and seeing the CBD it got me thinking about Erebus Territory map and the different sub regions that make up Sydney using the train routes that I had to work out where different suburbs were.

With the reasonable success of Western Sydney Wanderers into the A-League (derbies aside) I know their was a thread on here about is there room for a third Sydney club but having a look at the Sydney map wouldn't the Mariners be classed as the third Sydney base club or if not wouldn't they take supporters from the North Sydney area upwards? Would the Mariners represent both the Central Coast and North Sydney or am I going down a forgetbale past that was the Northern Eagles in the NRL?

With the Wanderers taking the West and from what I can tell Sydney FC taking the south and east would it be easier for North Sydney people to travel to Gosford rather than going through to Allianz stadium.

Not that anyone has the right to tell you who you support but Im basing it geographically. Depending on the success of both Sydney FC and the wanderers there would be room enough for two more Sydney Clubs.

it'd make their shit crowds seem even worse, given they wouldn't have the "population %" argument.

funnily enough i live in sydney but CCM have always been geographically closer to me than sydney fc dont know if that means anything though sydney is a massive city

Edited by swarth: 28/12/2012 01:42:51 PM

:lol:

SydneyOlympic, Sydney United etc etc.

It could just be me - but I've always considered the Smurfs as the second Central Coast team (Central Coast South if you will). It's all in your perspective I guess ;)

The North Shore doesn't relate to the Central Coast geographically, historically or transport wise. It relates in each of those areas to Sydney.

North Sydney to Gosford is about 1hr 45m according to the City Rail website and 60min+ by road from large parts of the North Shore. I've seen research that mentions 30min+ is the point at which fan harvesting commences to drop and at 60min+ it reduces to a rump. Central Coast already markets to the parts of the North Shore closest to it but I think it would be a waste of time trying to extend their area further south.

I'll bite. Never for the first one and no to the second because the Wanderers are already located in their area.

3rd Sydney Team = Penrith.

Dusted off Erebus' old map:




As a Western Sydney fan, do you really think that Penrith is seperate enough for a team? Do people in Penrith feel the same way, ie not many Penrithites at your games?
What about Southerland? Sharks always seemed a healthy club, is that area suitible for another team? Or are they just Sydney FC's catchment?

Obviously I'm not from Sydney so this is all just fun theory for me.

i always thought of CCM as a team sandwiched between sydney fc and newcastle jets

Sutherland is one of the biggest areas for sydney fc it would be a major blow to their crowds.

Ok rephrase would people in North Sydney relate more to Sydney FC or the Central Coast? If all I hear is tribalism and territory pride from Sydneysiders who should have which catchment area and thought would Central Coast try and claim North Sydney as there own or Sydney FC or would this be considered and even battleground.

They would relate to Sydney and not to Central Coast at all unless they were born up there.

That's how I thought of them too...Many Northern Spirit fans now wear Yellow and Blue..Don't know who is left just 'waiting for a team' like the WSW fans were?

To answer the topic question - only if Wollongong is considered the 4th Sydney team.

Answering the Original post, a lot of ex Northern Spirit fans follow CCM and I know a few people from the Hornsby area who prefer to follow CCM than Sydney FC

Its a shame the Northern Eagles didnt pick up pace though it could have set up a comradery between the Norther Beaches and the Coast

whaa? Hornsby to Gosford is 45 minutes by train and the moment you get onto the F3 its like a 20 minute drive to Gosford.

I understand this idea but completely agree that northern Sydney doesn't relate to the Central Coast culturally, historically etc.

Edited by jparraga: 28/12/2012 05:16:35 PM

I quoted the maximum train trip which is from North Sydney not the Upper North Shore. The car trip figure was taken from google maps. The road trip from Manly was 10 minutes more as would be further up the Northern Beaches.

Ah right, not quite what I had in mind when thinking of North Sydney

I used the extremities of the region to show that a lot of the area north of the harbour could not be considered a reasonable trip to Gosford.

No need for an extra Sydney team, just bring in Wollongong.

I've always thought of the Central Coast as North of the Harbour but I've never really been around the Northern part of Sydney and Central Coast except for going to Manly and North Head on school excursions, going to Central Coast stadium and bypassing it on the way up the Coast.
I'm from the Shire. I assume it is similar to us being heaped in with a Wollongong bid if that eventuated. You would probably have a fairly even split overall but depending on which suburb you live it would be far more heavily leaning to one club.

Yeah guess it's all up to interpretation. I've always thought of Sydney starting at the end of the F3 around Hornsby, with everything north of that being Central Coast up until Newcastle

Yeah, but getting on the F3 can be hell. Sydney has the worst transport system.

Geographically it starts at the beginning of the Hawkesbury River, but taking North Sydney as the extreme is a bit much. Its like saying West Sydney begins at Balmain.. Hornsby is a better area to go off

Gosford is around 45 minutes from Hornsby by rail - 35 minutes from the beginning of the F3 by car. The Mariners get some support from around Turramurra upwards and probably around Epping upwards. That said there would be more support for Sydney FC in those areas.

All the above puts it together imo - Hornsby is about the line though you have Mt.Kuring gai/Mt Colah and close suburbs further who would be more suited to travel to Blue Tongue due to the easy run up the F3.
Mariners have invested on training camps/academys etc in the KDSA GHFA therefore would pull some of the above regions but no way would can you include the gypos region into greater Sydney ! but why not put them in with WSW - afterall westies are westies ;)

no

I'm from Asquith - it's on Erebus' map, just north of Hornsby. I play in the Premier League side, and while it's not as if everyone has an A-League team, I'd definitely say on the balance, we'd lean Mariners. It's not everyone, but Gosford is a slightly shorter trip than the SFS, even if in every other way we identify as living in Sydney.

That said, there are more Liverpool/Chelsea jerseys at training than FC/Mariners.

As a somewhat-experienced football fan with many other A-league supporting friends up here, it's about 50/50. Here's a key...

Sydney FC have never played a trial or competitive match in the Northern suburbs of Sydney. (Manly-Warringah is NOT Northern Sydney, it's the Northern Beaches)

They've never even really made a pitch to us up here, other than basing the training at Macquarie Uni and doing a few half-hearted community local football drills sessions.

As for travel, it takes me 45 min by train from Beecroft, then 20 min walk to SFS. Mariners is slightly less, at about 50 min train 5 min walk. But there is no comparison, SFC has... an atmopshere.

I'm sure one day Sydney will be able to support a team at Chatswood area for the whole of the Northern Beaches, North Shore, North West as this area is the most affluent and one of the fastest growing especially out Castle Hill way. The new North West rail link will open some time around 2018-19, I think it's worth a look at a club in Northern Sydney then but you would need to provide major incentive to get people from the Northern beaches over- that area has the worst public transport other than the North West in the city - Sydney is a long way behind it's growth in terms of rail infrastructure right now... We need a Parramatta - Epping line, the North West line finished and open, and at least light rail from St Leonards and North Sydney out to Manly and up to Harbord.

There is a huge amount of football support not being properly tapped by Sydney FC particularly, as well as Mariners, from the Northern Beaches over to St Leonards to Castle Hill up to Hornsby. I don't think that many people here have felt connected to either SFC or Central Coast, and doubtedly never will.

But then we move into ground issues. There are absolutely [size=7]FUCK ALL[/size] stadiums North of the Bridge. North Sydney Oval is too close to the city for an A-league team hoping to capture all of the Northern third of Sydney, and Brookvale is a mile from the major population areas of Epping, Eastwood, Ryde, North Sydney, St Leonards, Chatswood, Hornsby and Gordon. I would recomend if a serious A-league bid was ever put forth from Northern Sydney districts, it should be based at Chatswood and a brand new ground would be needed... But I literally am completely talking out of my arse, won't even be considered possible for 20+ years, by then anything might be happening. It was pretty slack though how the Govt didn't even think .02% of a thought about the whole Northern Suburbs when deciding where to build a World Cup ground for a possible Australian World Cup, given Chatswood would be perfect and there is absolutely no sporting infrastructure up here. Rant over.

Edited by 4wanderer4: 28/12/2012 10:52:17 PM

Edited by 4wanderer4: 28/12/2012 10:53:01 PM

i never think of gosford being in sydney, even though its probably 1.5 hours by train from where i live

and bring in wollongong wolves who can try and form a rivalry with perth glory, and then canberra united to form a rivalry with wellington phoenix (both with my optimist hat on)

Cannot believe Wollongong has been ignored this long - they already have their own social club, they have an absolutely majestic and recently-renovated stadium in a perfect location, a history of 2 National titles and always drew pretty decently in the NSL. Simply a must. Plus, we would only be competing there with the Dragons who don't exactly flood them with games and it would be their off-season, and the Hawks who aren't much of a threat at 3-4k a game max. Only issue I guess is finance, would need huge community support but they've done that for Wanderers and working so far.

I'm a massive believer in the concept of bringing back the Wolves, and running them along similar lines to CCM. Unfortunately from what I understand there has never been a financial backer/backing group able to come up with the money. And while FFA were happy to start up WSW, and frankly were out of options when they did, I doubt they'd be willing to take a chance on the South Coast.

But if I'm allowed to dream, I'd love to see the Wolves back and connected with the community, tapping into an area as far north as Engadine and Campbelltown, down Bulli and into Wollongong and then all the way to Kiama and even Nowra. That's a catchment area large enough to average a solid 6-7K at the very least, to be played at WIN Stadium.

And as a Sydney fan, that would be another great away game to visit, along with CCM and NJ and now West Sydney.

Edited by thupercoach: 28/12/2012 11:15:22 PM

God yes, think of the away trips - Newcastle, Gosford, Wanderers, Wollongong and Canberra... Would be a proper league. All within 150km of us. And I DO love playing away, even though my favourite away chant is "I want to go home, this town is a sh**hole, I want to go home". Wollongong away would be an absolute dream.

All things considered, Wollongong is a safer bet than Townesville was assuming there is fanincial backing... they have decent football pedigree 2 titles, natural rivals in Western Sydney and SFC, a far better stadium than DairyFarmers, better public transport, and very little competition for media space. Gotta be in the plans for the next expansion, and ahead of Townesville.

Edited by 4wanderer4: 28/12/2012 11:23:35 PM

It's interesting you mention media space - when WV were winning NSL titles I had some mates in Nowra (not at all football fans) who were all aware of how well the Wolves were doing and knew names like coach Nick Theodorakopoulous, Matt Horsley,Scott Chipperfield and Sash Petrovski, all due to the local media. Crowds were about 6-7K which was decent. And this was in the deepest, darkest NSL days.

The Mariners have a pretty good following in the GHFA and KDSFA districts from what I can see, especially in my own club.

The Peninsula is a shocker to get in and out of. I can understand why they only ever go to Brookvale Oval.

The league needs both Wollongong and Canberra to come into the league at same stage. Sydney has enough. To be frank, 10 teams in a league is pretty poor and looks a like a joke to outsiders I would imagine. When we get to 14 or 16, then I reckon we would have the ideal number.

Where would those extra two or four teams come from though?

Penrith
Wollongong
Tasmania
Canberra
2nd Brisbane
2nd Adelaide
Regional Victorian (ie non-Melbourne).
North Queensland if the rebadged Fury stick and twist in the APL.

That's enough teams to get to 16 easily. There's also the possibility of a 2nd NZ team so you could get closer to 20 than 14 if the league was viable enough to attract investors without needing them to lose 5+ million a season.

It adds proper derbies and more local matches to improve away attendances.

Edited by macktheknife: 29/12/2012 12:21:02 AM

Alice springs Goannas with an aboriginal academy

I think they would heavily target the whole shire not just up to Engadine. There are some strong ties between the regions with a large amount of northern Illawarra kids going to school in the shire and shire kids going to uni in Wollongong. Also it would be a bit hard to target 5-6 clubs out of the 25 in the shire association. The area up to Engadine is the area of the shire that would be the easiest to sway though.


[size=1][size=1][size=1]Helensburgh is a hole[/size][/size][/size]

Edited by chillbilly: 29/12/2012 12:30:56 AM

In all seriousness, but once again completely talking out of me arse, Darwin/NT has no representation whatsoever... It is there for the taking :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sport_in_the_Northern_Territory

ideally:
11. wollongong wolves
12. canberra united
13. tasmania united
14. geelong city
15. auckland knights
16. northern fury

Edited by williamn: 29/12/2012 12:35:43 AM

That makes sense. Other than Wollongong and Canberra, are those other regions able or willing to support a football club?

Not sure it's a good idea to call a potential Auckland team the Knights... for anyones sake. They would get the sh**e torn out of them. Canberra and Wollongong are musts, Townesville if they can get some better $$ behind them and the FFA give them a serious go and they have a proper stadium. Tassie is a pipe dream as is Geelong, realistically they are 20 year projects.

I reckon 14 is more realistic than 16. 14 teams would give us 26 rounds and perfect as far as season length and fair draws are concerned.

yeah, in the near future, tasmania and geelong look way off due to the lack of a rectangular stadium. canberra stadium is a little too big for a canberra team, auckland has the dilemma where the best stadium (north harbour) is in a poor location but mt smart stadium would do the job. could also argue that dairy farmers stadium is a bit too big for the fury.
therefore wollongong and auckland are in the best positions stadium wise.

i cant see two teams playing out of suncorp or one at ballymore, one at suncorp working. neither having two teams at hindmarsh or one at hindmarsh and one at adelaide oval.

Dominic Longo is from Tassie

I can't believe people want to go back to Auckland (or NZ at all) after the Knights debacle. And Gosford is a holiday town for Sydneysiders. It's like me driving to Noosa for games.

Edited by wamackie: 29/12/2012 01:01:43 AM

Yeh, so to sum it up...

Pipe Dreams (ie. 20 year minimum, ridiculous $$$)

2nd Adelaide
2nd Brisbane
Tassie
Geelong

ASAP (ie. End of next TV deal)

Canberra
Wollongong

Sooner rather than later (ie. under 8 years, maybe less depending on how things go)

Townesville
Gold Coast?
Auckland

Edited by 4wanderer4: 29/12/2012 01:09:10 AM

#-o at bolded

Edited by wamackie: 29/12/2012 01:13:12 AM

We should have an official expansion thread.

Well I thought it was stupid how someone suggested calling them Knights again, but it is by an absolute mile the next largest city in the area that has no football representation.

Auckland = 1.3 million odd
Gold Coast = 600,000 odd
Canberra = 370,000 odd
Wollongong = 300,000 odd
Townesville = 200,000 odd
Geelong = 200,000 odd
Hobart = 200,000 odd
Launceston = 130,000 odd

Not even close to comparison. Of course other factors come in such as how many people are realistic football supporters, how much media space and corporate dollars are to be won etc but its daylight between Auckland and Canberra (we aren't going back to GC for quite some time I'd suspect).

Christchurch 363,200
Sunshine Coast 251,081

Anyone who hasn't read this, it's fascinating I just found it.


http://www.illawarramercury.com.au/story/270048/the-decline-of-the-wollongong-wolves/

As you said, it is about other factors. But then again, it is a bit like putting Sydney FC in an area where the game is still considered "wogball" and then hoping that given that it is the only choice, the city will follow. I have a feeling that Auckland may fall into that category, but I know little about NZ other than their people's love of rugby and Bondi.

Why did the first Auckland team fail?

auckland can make the same arguement as gold coast. i would really like to see them in the league and with the assitance of 3 derbies, they should draw well.

Shocking on field first and foremost.
Rubbish stadium miles from major residents, not a great stadium either.
NZ Football federation didn't do them many favours and appeared uninterested.
Poor quality of football.

Those are the key reasons, I'm sure there are more. Also they never drew particularly well in the NSL, all the other A-league clubs that were kept on from NSL ie. Newcastle, Perth, Adelaide (and I think Brisbane) drew significantly higher support base so I'm not sure why FFA thought sticking a new badge on, a new jersey and a bit of branding would fix those issues but it made it worse because the other clubs left them in the dust of the same mediocre NSL - type league. Having said all of this, I could be wrong, that's just my take on it - I've only ever stopped over in Auckland, and was never much of an NSL fan.

Sydney 4,605,992*
Melbourne 4,169,103
Brisbane 2,146,577
Perth 1,832,114
Auckland 1,507,700
Adelaide 1,262,940
Gold Coast-Tweed 576,747
Newcastle 540,002
Canberra-Queanbeyan 418,292
Wellington 395,600
Christchurch 375,900
Central Coast 297,713
Wollongong 288,101
Rockingham+Mandurah+Bunbury 246,173
Sunshine Coast 241,643
Gippsland 239,647
Hobart 216,276
Geelong 210,875
Launceston+Burnie+Devonport 191,963
Townsville 167,636
Cairns 146,477
Darwin 129,062
Toowoomba 125,265
Albury-Wodonga 103,209
Ballarat 95,007
Bendigo 89,666

Source for most of this.

*Includes Central Coast in this figure.

Edited by paladisious: 29/12/2012 07:52:01 PM

New Zealand Knights 1 : 3 Sydney FC North Harbour Stadium, Auckland Attendance: 9,827
New Zealand Knights 0 : 0 Newcastle Jets North Harbour Stadium, Auckland Attendance: 7,304




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006%E2%80%9307_A-League#Home_and_away_season

Weird how they linked rocking ham, mandurah and Banbury together. Rockingham is part of Perth and Banbury is 2 hours away.

It drops off markedly from there. From my quick research I can't see >4.5k

19 November 2011
Wellington Phoenix 1 : 1 Adelaide United
Eden Park, Auckland
Attendance: 20,078

Source.

:-k

7 March 2010
Wellington 3 - 1 Newcastle Jest
Cake Tin, Wellington
Attendance = 32,792.

[-( How the mighty have fallen :shock:

Source

If cities with 2.15 million (Brisbane), 1.8 million (Perth) and 1.2 million (Adelaide) can't support a second team in the future (ie from the TV deal after this one that just got signed), then how is putting teams in cities with 250k-150k people any better?

Is that what the league is going to end up as? A handful of big city teams with supporter bases numbering in the millions, while everyone else in the league struggle with low support bases and for basic profitability the same way CCM have, even when CCM have been so successful on the pitch?

We can't ignore regional areas, but we can't ignore second and third teams in big cities. Especially on the East Coast where the majority of TV ratings come from.

As for Penrith, while it is nominally "Western Sydney" it has enough of an identity as it's own region that it should be a viable proposition for the 3rd Sydney team.

No matter where you put a 3rd team in Sydney you'll be cannibalising either WSW (Blacktown, Penrith, Campbelltown being the major choices people want for a 3rd team) or Sydney FC (Sutherland), unless you put it at Manly, which would be a massive risk.

Even for us melbourne fans it would be amazing, the more reachable away matches the better.

I understand that the OP is not from Sydney, let alone NSW, but that's geography fail.

That was a semi final, mind you.

Still, 10% of the entire city was there :P

Ha ha....... tosser

Spot on, no room to grow. It's a little holiday town, the economy is gained by Sydney weekenders, retired couples and penny pinchers who will never support CCM. Bad location choice for a club IMO.

Great club though, would be awesome if they could uproot them to Canberra!

i dont think they should be considered the 3rd sydney team. with the mariners and if wollongong ever come into the a league i dont think there will ever need to be more than 2 teams in sydney. with teams like woolongong or canberra coming in it would mean there would be like 5 teams (wanderers,newcaslte,ccm,sydfc,woolongong and canberra) all within a day trip on the train distance from each other.

i for one want the a league to be more spread out, so yes bring in woolongong and canberra whenever it would be possible but also nth qld and tassie.

People need to start looking at the bigger picture, and at how we can take our league to the next level.

New Zealand is not the answer: ASEAN is.

Brunei DPMM FC - are playing in the S-League and averaged over 5K (which for the S-League is amazing, some teams draw two figure crowds). Their initial games had almost 10K at each game.

Singapore Lions XII - used to play in the Malaysian League back in the 80's and 90's where they used to sell out the 50K National Stadium. They rejoined the M-League last season. In 2014 the new Singapore National Stadium (65K) will be finished. Singapore just won the Suzuki Cup.

Harimau Muda - Nickname for the Malaysian national team. Currently play as a club in the S-League (reciprocal agreement in allowing Lions XII into the M-League), and as a B team in the Malaysian Second Division.
- If not Harimau Muda, then bring in one of the two big Malaysian teams such as Kelantan, or Selangor.

Indonesian football is in domestic turmoil. Offer their bigger clubs potential to move to the next level in terms of player development, commercial development, and professionalism, by entry into the A-League. Persija Jakarta comes to mind considering they get crowds upwards of 40K every week.

Domestic expansion has limited potential apart from Canberra and Wollongong, Tasmania being a possibility if the State Government there decided to build a 12K stadium in Hobart. Gold Coast will not work, then you start clutching at straws. Townsville does not have enough people to draw 10K every week - that's why they failed. Ipswich, Sunshine Coast, Geelong, Albury, Darwin don't have the facilities or required population for support.

If this were to be pulled off, the television rights money would be extraordinarily high.

NZK were drawing alright at first, but the fact they only won 1 game out of the whole first season (finishing on 5 points I think) really did them no favours

They didnt recruit very well either, and just seemed half-arsed all round. It actually wasnt until Ricky Herbert took over at the end of the second season that they actually resembled a football team, and by then it was too late

Dumb post. The growth is through the population expansion in the Sydney basin. Plenty of people have moved up here to get away from the congestion and housing prices of Sydney while still being close enough to work there. (the hell do you think we get called Gypos?) I moved here 10 years ago and it may have been nice little holiday town then but its growing into a city unto itself.

Got to agree with this. Have just spent a week in Woy Woy/Umina and it's amazing how busy the latter especially has gotten in the last 5-years.

Put it this way, Umina used to be a sleepy beach suburb with a couple of shops, a fish and chip joint, a petrol station and a small Flemmings/Woolworths.

Now they've got 3 major supermarkets, large ones too (Woolworths, Coles, & ALDI), 2 large supermarket bottleshops (BWS/Liqourland) and a Bunnings Warehouse to open in 2013. My Aunty who lives up there tells me a McDonalds will be opening up in 2013, and there are plans for a KFC slightly further down the road in Ettalong.

Woy Woy/Umina are also only a 15-20 minute drive from Gosford and Bluetounge Stadium. The Market is there. Quite frankly I think the problem is the demographics in the area - that's my opinion. It's too much of a Rugby League dominated area - football is always going to be difficult to get a foothold in, even if the Mariners are doing well.

South-East Melbourne = Dandenong+Frankston+Cranbourne+Pakenham+Mornington = 735,424

It would be second only to Auckland on my list of potential unrepresented markets on the other page.

Here's an unused greenfield site right next to Dandenong station that would fit a small cheap 10-15k stadium.

if only melbourne heart made themselves useful and represented the dandenong region instead

That was in their bid, IIRC.

I've never been to Melbourne so don't crucify me for being misinformed... but isn't the Frankston line considered the most dangerous and dero-filled public transport corridor in the country? :?

Also, Cheltenham \:d/ \:d/ \:d/ I live there, but in Sydney - best suburb in the country.


Are there any decent grounds anywhere near this area of Melbourne, other than the Thunders' ground which is nowhere near what is needed?

Edited by 4wanderer4: 29/12/2012 06:53:12 PM

Not at all. Melbourne is very centrist with our infrastructure, which is normally a good thing as our CBD is actually in the centre, unlike Sydney's right out east.

However, the South-East sprawls out much further than any other part of Melbourne; it's about an hour by train to the city from Frankston, Pakenham and Cranbourne, while the latter two lines join at Dandenong station. Geelong and Ballarat are about the same travel time in the other direction, and they're whole separate cities.


:lol: Yep, it's scumsville down that way. Also a fair share of migrants from football countries too, and young families. Including young males, it's the Wiltonian holy trinity of people to market a club to. A possible cultural point of difference, a-la Wanderers?

That said, Melbourne is also very centrist culturally; there isn't really a name for "Greater South-East Melbourne", and I'm sure many Victory and Heart fans make the trip from down that way (as do some from Ballarat and Geelong - I was one of them) but I'm sure a reformed Dandenong Thunder or a new team down there might attract a few more bums for seats.

Google Earth tells me that a Hindmarsh or a Loftus Road would easily fit in the spot I pointed out with all the requisite amenities.

All theory and speculation of course.

Well I suggest you come down for Australia Day and see a real crowd ;)

That site is really too narrow for a football stadium. You could squeeze the grandstands in but it wouldn't have the space around them that is necessary for safe egress. Additionally the ground would run NW - SE which is about as bad as you can get for day time games.

The entire site at it's skinniest is 140m, the footprint of Hindmarsh is 135m. And it wouldn't be that big anyway, it'd surely be more like a pre-reconfigured Bob Jane Stadium, which was 125m. The entire footprints of Loftus Road and Craven Cottage are both less wide than 120m. As for NE-SE orientation there's another site across the road to the south if it's too much of an issue.

I don't think those are the biggest hurdles for a SE Melbourne team getting up.

Edited by paladisious: 29/12/2012 08:05:28 PM

82m for the width of the pitch, 12m for railway side grandstand, 20m for Cheltenham Rd side grandstand, a space for toilets and then about 10-15 metres all around for the external concourse plus there is then landscaping requirements and mandatory off street parking for Broadcast Vans/team coaches/official cars/media and council requirements for off street fan parking etc etc. 240m x 180m is a nice size for initial planning purposes but you can squeeze them in less especially if they are in an existing park.

Back in the boom years...

Yes I do understand that, but those examples I've mentioned have done it all with bigger stadiums in smaller spaces.

Funny, now you mention it, Bob Jane and Craven Cottage are on almost the exact same angle as this theoretic stadium.

yeah i agree with this. when woolongong and canberra come in i think that is enough for the NSW area. thats 12 teams.
we really need another 2 teams after this. north queensland again, and then im not sure. if tasmania can work i would put them in. thats 14 teams.
i would add that i would seriously consider puting woolongong and canberra in straight after the world cup, ride on the sucess of that then the asian cup that we host the year after should consolidate some decent crowds and interests.

Thanks bro, interesting.

Casey United FC and Fairfield City FC to join the a-league in 2015 and represent the little people fighting for a say in our communities.

Hindmarsh is 140m wide from back of stand to back of stand then you have to add the off street stuff that I mentioned including the external concourse. Similarly with the old Bob Jane ground which was around 135m wide. The external concourse around the ground is essential in site needs calculations because you have to be able to disperse the total capacity to evacuation zones in about 7 or 8 minutes.

Old overseas stadiums are useless for comparison because they wouldn't go anywhere near meeting planning requirements for a new build here.

Ground orientation is not set by FIFA but best practice has it slightly West of North.

If you are really interested in playing around with this stuff there are some good online resources. First one is the FIFA Technical Requirements book that you can find on the part of their site that deals with Brazil2014 and Stadia - A Design and Development Guide which is on the link below.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/13320073/Stadia-A-Design-and-Development-Guide

Edited by gyfox: 29/12/2012 10:10:49 PM

http://www.worldfootball.net/zuschauer/aus-a-league-1993-1994/1/

Wollongongs crowds barely went over 5k and were mostly around 2-3k. Northern Spirits crowds were quite good though?

Already in motion my good sir. Care to lend me some accomadation? It's damn expensive because of the Open :(

No, they're based in gosford and gosford is not part of sydney. Sure, they can take fans from the sydney area, but even the Jets have fans making the trip up from sydney for every home game.

Good point , Central Coast is not part of Sydney . Sydney and Newcastle are the 2nd and third Central Coast teams.


ARNIE = LEGEND !

So what is the Identity that Penrith has that is so different than Blacktown/Parramatta? (And try to be flattering to Penrith here) How will West Sydney look with one fifth of their fans gone? (Meh) Or how will Penrith look with one fifth of West Sydney fans trying to get behind the team.