paladisious
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M.L. wrote:Aussie4ever4 wrote:paladisious wrote:Aussie4ever4 wrote:http://www.worldfootball.net/zuschauer/aus-a-league-1993-1994/1/
Wollongongs crowds barely went over 5k and were mostly around 2-3k. Northern Spirits crowds were quite good though? Weird, that site only counts one game per club except for the strikers for that season, but all games for other seasons. Seems Woolongong averaged around 5k often later on, 5,567 in 97/98. Glory and Northern Spirit were averaging 14k at around that time. :shock: Ozfoootball has the stats but they aren't all added up. I wander how many northern spirit supporters now follow Sydney FC Not many that I know being an ex Spirit supporter. Most north shore line/northern beachs people couldn't be bothered going over the bridge for entertainment (unless they have to) excl me :lol: having moved to Gladesville a while back going to the SFS is easy for me. Ah the glory Spirit days at Nth Syd oval, perfect TBH, large crowds the early days, Percy's pub just across the road for pre drinks/dinner b4 KOFF had an awesum atmosphere. I'd say most of those Spirit supporters have just stuck by watching their local Park football with the odd venture to a SFC game. Some of my footballing mates get to SFC games but not as often as I would. That's as close to answering OP's question as we're gonna get! :lol:
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Glory Recruit
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Thanks M.I:)
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LFC.
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Aussie4ever4 wrote:paladisious wrote:Aussie4ever4 wrote:http://www.worldfootball.net/zuschauer/aus-a-league-1993-1994/1/
Wollongongs crowds barely went over 5k and were mostly around 2-3k. Northern Spirits crowds were quite good though? Weird, that site only counts one game per club except for the strikers for that season, but all games for other seasons. Seems Woolongong averaged around 5k often later on, 5,567 in 97/98. Glory and Northern Spirit were averaging 14k at around that time. :shock: Ozfoootball has the stats but they aren't all added up. I wander how many northern spirit supporters now follow Sydney FC Not many that I know being an ex Spirit supporter. Most north shore line/northern beachs people couldn't be bothered going over the bridge for entertainment (unless they have to) excl me :lol: having moved to Gladesville a while back going to the SFS is easy for me. Ah the glory Spirit days at Nth Syd oval, perfect TBH, large crowds the early days, Percy's pub just across the road for pre drinks/dinner b4 KOFF had an awesum atmosphere. I'd say most of those Spirit supporters have just stuck by watching their local Park football with the odd venture to a SFC game. Some of my footballing mates get to SFC games but not as often as I would.
Love Football
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thupercoach
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@ mack - Dominic Longo played in the '94 WC qualifiers. (From Tassie)
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Glory Recruit
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paladisious wrote:Aussie4ever4 wrote:http://www.worldfootball.net/zuschauer/aus-a-league-1993-1994/1/
Wollongongs crowds barely went over 5k and were mostly around 2-3k. Northern Spirits crowds were quite good though? Weird, that site only counts one game per club except for the strikers for that season, but all games for other seasons. Seems Woolongong averaged around 5k often later on, 5,567 in 97/98. Glory and Northern Spirit were averaging 14k at around that time. :shock: Ozfoootball has the stats but they aren't all added up. I wander how many northern spirit supporters now follow Sydney FC
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paladisious
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Aussie4ever4 wrote:http://www.worldfootball.net/zuschauer/aus-a-league-1993-1994/1/
Wollongongs crowds barely went over 5k and were mostly around 2-3k. Northern Spirits crowds were quite good though? Weird, that site only counts one game per club except for the strikers for that season, but all games for other seasons. Seems Woolongong averaged around 5k often later on, 5,567 in 97/98. Glory and Northern Spirit were averaging 14k at around that time. :shock:
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Condemned666
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North Northern Spirit Mk 2 :)
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australiantibullus
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macktheknife wrote:williamn wrote:Boban wrote:macktheknife wrote:Penrith WTF- that is WSW territory Wollongong That is in my list Tasmania Maybe - but I can't remember any Tassie footballers ever playing for Oz Canberra That is in my list 2nd Brisbane I don't reckon the city is big enough 2nd Adelaide Same as Brisbane Regional Victorian (ie non-Melbourne). North Queensland if the rebadged Fury stick and twist in the APL.
I reckon 14 is more realistic than 16. 14 teams would give us 26 rounds and perfect as far as season length and fair draws are concerned. i cant see two teams playing out of suncorp or one at ballymore, one at suncorp working. neither having two teams at hindmarsh or one at hindmarsh and one at adelaide oval. If cities with 2.15 million (Brisbane), 1.8 million (Perth) and 1.2 million (Adelaide) can't support a second team in the future (ie from the TV deal after this one that just got signed), then how is putting teams in cities with 250k-150k people any better? Is that what the league is going to end up as? A handful of big city teams with supporter bases numbering in the millions, while everyone else in the league struggle with low support bases and for basic profitability the same way CCM have, even when CCM have been so successful on the pitch? We can't ignore regional areas, but we can't ignore second and third teams in big cities. Especially on the East Coast where the majority of TV ratings come from. As for Penrith, while it is nominally "Western Sydney" it has enough of an identity as it's own region that it should be a viable proposition for the 3rd Sydney team.No matter where you put a 3rd team in Sydney you'll be cannibalising either WSW (Blacktown, Penrith, Campbelltown being the major choices people want for a 3rd team) or Sydney FC (Sutherland), unless you put it at Manly, which would be a massive risk. So what is the Identity that Penrith has that is so different than Blacktown/Parramatta? (And try to be flattering to Penrith here) How will West Sydney look with one fifth of their fans gone? (Meh) Or how will Penrith look with one fifth of West Sydney fans trying to get behind the team.
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go you yellow
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cardiff10 wrote:No, they're based in gosford and gosford is not part of sydney. Sure, they can take fans from the sydney area, but even the Jets have fans making the trip up from sydney for every home game. Good point , Central Coast is not part of Sydney . Sydney and Newcastle are the 2nd and third Central Coast teams. ARNIE = LEGEND !
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cardiff10
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No, they're based in gosford and gosford is not part of sydney. Sure, they can take fans from the sydney area, but even the Jets have fans making the trip up from sydney for every home game.
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VedranFC
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paladisious wrote:4wanderer4 wrote:I've never been to Melbourne Well I suggest you come down for Australia Day and see a real crowd ;) Already in motion my good sir. Care to lend me some accomadation? It's damn expensive because of the Open :(
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Glory Recruit
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http://www.worldfootball.net/zuschauer/aus-a-league-1993-1994/1/Wollongongs crowds barely went over 5k and were mostly around 2-3k. Northern Spirits crowds were quite good though?
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Gyfox
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paladisious wrote:Quote:
82m for the width of the pitch, 12m for railway side grandstand, 20m for Cheltenham Rd side grandstand, a space for toilets and then about 10-15 metres all around for the external concourse plus there is then landscaping requirements and mandatory off street parking for Broadcast Vans/team coaches/official cars/media and council requirements for off street fan parking etc etc. 240m x 180m is a nice size for initial planning purposes but you can squeeze them in less especially if they are in an existing park.
Yes I do understand that, but those examples I've mentioned have done it all with bigger stadiums in smaller spaces. Funny, now you mention it, Bob Jane and Craven Cottage are on almost the exact same angle as this theoretic stadium. Hindmarsh is 140m wide from back of stand to back of stand then you have to add the off street stuff that I mentioned including the external concourse. Similarly with the old Bob Jane ground which was around 135m wide. The external concourse around the ground is essential in site needs calculations because you have to be able to disperse the total capacity to evacuation zones in about 7 or 8 minutes. Old overseas stadiums are useless for comparison because they wouldn't go anywhere near meeting planning requirements for a new build here. Ground orientation is not set by FIFA but best practice has it slightly West of North. If you are really interested in playing around with this stuff there are some good online resources. First one is the FIFA Technical Requirements book that you can find on the part of their site that deals with Brazil2014 and Stadia - A Design and Development Guide which is on the link below. http://www.scribd.com/doc/13320073/Stadia-A-Design-and-Development-GuideEdited by gyfox: 29/12/2012 10:10:49 PM
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williamn
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Casey United FC and Fairfield City FC to join the a-league in 2015 and represent the little people fighting for a say in our communities.
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paladisious wrote:Back in the boom years... 442 wrote:Casey Plans A-League Coup Thanks bro, interesting.
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mltezr
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shallow hal wants a gal wrote:i dont think they should be considered the 3rd sydney team. with the mariners and if wollongong ever come into the a league i dont think there will ever need to be more than 2 teams in sydney. with teams like woolongong or canberra coming in it would mean there would be like 5 teams (wanderers,newcaslte,ccm,sydfc,woolongong and canberra) all within a day trip on the train distance from each other.
i for one want the a league to be more spread out, so yes bring in woolongong and canberra whenever it would be possible but also nth qld and tassie. yeah i agree with this. when woolongong and canberra come in i think that is enough for the NSW area. thats 12 teams. we really need another 2 teams after this. north queensland again, and then im not sure. if tasmania can work i would put them in. thats 14 teams. i would add that i would seriously consider puting woolongong and canberra in straight after the world cup, ride on the sucess of that then the asian cup that we host the year after should consolidate some decent crowds and interests.
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paladisious
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Gyfox wrote:paladisious wrote:Gyfox wrote:paladisious wrote:
Google Earth tells me that a Hindmarsh or a Loftus Road would easily fit in the spot I pointed out with all the requisite amenities.
All theory and speculation of course.
That site is really too narrow for a football stadium. You could squeeze the grandstands in but it wouldn't have the space around them that is necessary for safe egress. Additionally the ground would run NW - SE which is about as bad as you can get for day time games. The entire site at it's skinniest is 140m, the footprint of Hindmarsh is 135m. And it wouldn't be that big anyway, it'd surely be more like a pre-reconfigured Bob Jane Stadium, which was 125m. The entire footprints of Loftus Road and Craven Cottage are both less wide than 120m. As for NE-SE orientation there's another site across the road to the south if it's too much of an issue. I don't think those are the biggest hurdles for a SE Melbourne team getting up. Edited by paladisious: 29/12/2012 08:05:28 PM 82m for the width of the pitch, 12m for railway side grandstand, 20m for Cheltenham Rd side grandstand, a space for toilets and then about 10-15 metres all around for the external concourse plus there is then landscaping requirements and mandatory off street parking for Broadcast Vans/team coaches/official cars/media and council requirements for off street fan parking etc etc. 240m x 180m is a nice size for initial planning purposes but you can squeeze them in less especially if they are in an existing park. Yes I do understand that, but those examples I've mentioned have done it all with bigger stadiums in smaller spaces. Funny, now you mention it, Bob Jane and Craven Cottage are on almost the exact same angle as this theoretic stadium.
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paladisious
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Back in the boom years... 442 wrote:Casey Plans A-League Coup
Mar 7 2008
ONE of Melbourne's fastest growing regions – an area which has produced Socceroo and Celtic star Scott McDonald - wants its own A-League team.
The City of Casey in Melbourne's south-east has confirmed they have held discussions about bringing a second Victorian A-League side to their area.
Casey manager of city living Richard Amon said work was being done with Football Federation Victoria (FFV) and nearby shires to develop a regional football strategy.
“This direction will consider issues relating to both the requirements of a regional soccer facility that represents the City of Casey in soccer competitions and FFV’s own vision for a presence in the south east of Melbourne,” he told Berwick News.
Interestingly, the region was to have an AFL side based there, but when that fell through, city officials decided to pursue plans for football.
Casey encompasses an area around one hour's drive from Telstra Dome, so it's not expected to weaken the existing Victorian franchise Melbourne Victory.
Central to any A-League franchise would be Casey Fields, a 70 hectare multi-sport site in suburban Cranbourne where Celtic and Aussie star Scott McDonald hails from.
And according to Casey's own figures, an A-League franchise could be just what the rapidly growing area might want. The City of Casey has consistently been one of Victoria's fastest growing municipalities over the past 15 years.
The population is expected to reach 350,000 by 2031, making it as big as Canberra is today. This of course does not factor in football fans from across Melbourne – in particular the outer regions such as the Mornington Peninsula, the foothills of the Dandenong Ranges and the coastal parts of Westernport – who may want to also support Casey's A-League side.
What's more, with the A-League's appeal with younger people, the numbers of youth in Casey are forecast to rise over the next decade. Right now, around 40,000 students are in primary and high school in the area and the percentage of 12-24 age group is currently around 20%.
Deputy Mayor of Casey Colin Butler tells au.fourfourtwo.com that the area is struggling to keep up with demand for football pitches for its juniors.
With FFA committed to expanding the A-League, such a growing area in Melbourne located well away from the existing A-League franchise should be worth exploring.
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Gyfox
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paladisious wrote:Gyfox wrote:paladisious wrote:
Google Earth tells me that a Hindmarsh or a Loftus Road would easily fit in the spot I pointed out with all the requisite amenities.
All theory and speculation of course.
That site is really too narrow for a football stadium. You could squeeze the grandstands in but it wouldn't have the space around them that is necessary for safe egress. Additionally the ground would run NW - SE which is about as bad as you can get for day time games. The entire site at it's skinniest is 140m, the footprint of Hindmarsh is 135m. And it wouldn't be that big anyway, it'd surely be more like a pre-reconfigured Bob Jane Stadium, which was 125m. The entire footprints of Loftus Road and Craven Cottage are both less wide than 120m. As for NE-SE orientation there's another site across the road to the south if it's too much of an issue. I don't think those are the biggest hurdles for a SE Melbourne team getting up. Edited by paladisious: 29/12/2012 08:05:28 PM 82m for the width of the pitch, 12m for railway side grandstand, 20m for Cheltenham Rd side grandstand, a space for toilets and then about 10-15 metres all around for the external concourse plus there is then landscaping requirements and mandatory off street parking for Broadcast Vans/team coaches/official cars/media and council requirements for off street fan parking etc etc. 240m x 180m is a nice size for initial planning purposes but you can squeeze them in less especially if they are in an existing park.
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paladisious
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Gyfox wrote:paladisious wrote:
Google Earth tells me that a Hindmarsh or a Loftus Road would easily fit in the spot I pointed out with all the requisite amenities.
All theory and speculation of course.
That site is really too narrow for a football stadium. You could squeeze the grandstands in but it wouldn't have the space around them that is necessary for safe egress. Additionally the ground would run NW - SE which is about as bad as you can get for day time games. The entire site at it's skinniest is 140m, the footprint of Hindmarsh is 135m. And it wouldn't be that big anyway, it'd surely be more like a pre-reconfigured Bob Jane Stadium, which was 125m. The entire footprints of Loftus Road and Craven Cottage are both less wide than 120m. As for NE-SE orientation there's another site across the road to the south if it's too much of an issue. I don't think those are the biggest hurdles for a SE Melbourne team getting up. Edited by paladisious: 29/12/2012 08:05:28 PM
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Gyfox
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paladisious wrote:
Google Earth tells me that a Hindmarsh or a Loftus Road would easily fit in the spot I pointed out with all the requisite amenities.
All theory and speculation of course.
That site is really too narrow for a football stadium. You could squeeze the grandstands in but it wouldn't have the space around them that is necessary for safe egress. Additionally the ground would run NW - SE which is about as bad as you can get for day time games.
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paladisious
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4wanderer4 wrote:I've never been to Melbourne Well I suggest you come down for Australia Day and see a real crowd ;)
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paladisious
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4wanderer4 wrote:Are there any decent grounds anywhere near this area of Melbourne, other than the Thunders' ground which is nowhere near what is needed? Not at all. Melbourne is very centrist with our infrastructure, which is normally a good thing as our CBD is actually in the centre, unlike Sydney's right out east. However, the South-East sprawls out much further than any other part of Melbourne; it's about an hour by train to the city from Frankston, Pakenham and Cranbourne, while the latter two lines join at Dandenong station. Geelong and Ballarat are about the same travel time in the other direction, and they're whole separate cities. 4wanderer4 wrote:I've never been to Melbourne so don't crucify me for being misinformed... but isn't the Frankston line considered the most dangerous and dero-filled public transport corridor in the country? :lol: Yep, it's scumsville down that way. Also a fair share of migrants from football countries too, and young families. Including young males, it's the Wiltonian holy trinity of people to market a club to. A possible cultural point of difference, a-la Wanderers? That said, Melbourne is also very centrist culturally; there isn't really a name for "Greater South-East Melbourne", and I'm sure many Victory and Heart fans make the trip from down that way (as do some from Ballarat and Geelong - I was one of them) but I'm sure a reformed Dandenong Thunder or a new team down there might attract a few more bums for seats. Google Earth tells me that a Hindmarsh or a Loftus Road would easily fit in the spot I pointed out with all the requisite amenities. All theory and speculation of course.
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VedranFC
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paladisious wrote:South-East Melbourne = Dandenong+Frankston+Cranbourne+Pakenham+Mornington = 735,424 It would be second only to Auckland on my list of potential unrepresented markets on the other page. Here's an unused greenfield site right next to Dandenong station that would fit a small cheap 10-15k stadium. I've never been to Melbourne so don't crucify me for being misinformed... but isn't the Frankston line considered the most dangerous and dero-filled public transport corridor in the country? :? Also, Cheltenham \:d/ \:d/ \:d/ I live there, but in Sydney - best suburb in the country. Are there any decent grounds anywhere near this area of Melbourne, other than the Thunders' ground which is nowhere near what is needed? Edited by 4wanderer4: 29/12/2012 06:53:12 PM
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paladisious
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williamn wrote:if only melbourne heart made themselves useful and represented the dandenong region instead That was in their bid, IIRC.
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williamn
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if only melbourne heart made themselves useful and represented the dandenong region instead
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paladisious
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South-East Melbourne = Dandenong+Frankston+Cranbourne+Pakenham+Mornington = 735,424 It would be second only to Auckland on my list of potential unrepresented markets on the other page. Here's an unused greenfield site right next to Dandenong station that would fit a small cheap 10-15k stadium.
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Heineken
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RedshirtWilly wrote:Bally #1 wrote:HeyItsRobbie wrote:i always thought of CCM as a team sandwiched between sydney fc and newcastle jets Spot on, no room to grow. It's a little holiday town, the economy is gained by Sydney weekenders, retired couples and penny pinchers who will never support CCM. Bad location choice for a club IMO. Great club though, would be awesome if they could uproot them to Canberra! Dumb post. The growth is through the population expansion in the Sydney basin. Plenty of people have moved up here to get away from the congestion and housing prices of Sydney while still being close enough to work there. (the hell do you think we get called Gypos?) I moved here 10 years ago and it may have been nice little holiday town then but its growing into a city unto itself. Got to agree with this. Have just spent a week in Woy Woy/Umina and it's amazing how busy the latter especially has gotten in the last 5-years. Put it this way, Umina used to be a sleepy beach suburb with a couple of shops, a fish and chip joint, a petrol station and a small Flemmings/Woolworths. Now they've got 3 major supermarkets, large ones too (Woolworths, Coles, & ALDI), 2 large supermarket bottleshops (BWS/Liqourland) and a Bunnings Warehouse to open in 2013. My Aunty who lives up there tells me a McDonalds will be opening up in 2013, and there are plans for a KFC slightly further down the road in Ettalong. Woy Woy/Umina are also only a 15-20 minute drive from Gosford and Bluetounge Stadium. The Market is there. Quite frankly I think the problem is the demographics in the area - that's my opinion. It's too much of a Rugby League dominated area - football is always going to be difficult to get a foothold in, even if the Mariners are doing well.
WOLLONGONG WOLVES FOR A-LEAGUE EXPANSION!
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RedshirtWilly
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Bally #1 wrote:HeyItsRobbie wrote:i always thought of CCM as a team sandwiched between sydney fc and newcastle jets Spot on, no room to grow. It's a little holiday town, the economy is gained by Sydney weekenders, retired couples and penny pinchers who will never support CCM. Bad location choice for a club IMO. Great club though, would be awesome if they could uproot them to Canberra! Dumb post. The growth is through the population expansion in the Sydney basin. Plenty of people have moved up here to get away from the congestion and housing prices of Sydney while still being close enough to work there. (the hell do you think we get called Gypos?) I moved here 10 years ago and it may have been nice little holiday town then but its growing into a city unto itself.
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RedshirtWilly
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NZK were drawing alright at first, but the fact they only won 1 game out of the whole first season (finishing on 5 points I think) really did them no favours
They didnt recruit very well either, and just seemed half-arsed all round. It actually wasnt until Ricky Herbert took over at the end of the second season that they actually resembled a football team, and by then it was too late
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