Paulys on a hellas rampage today. This is the 3rd thread in which hes shared his obsession with us today.

6000 is healthier crowds than the nix (an actual foreign club based in an actual foreign country) and like azza says, no tv, no adverstising, no silver ffa spoon to the tune of $$millions... pauly shudders to think what will happen once smfc are invited to the party. 

It is a pretty gross concept but is happening more and more around the world. 

Toronto Wolfpack make their bid to win a place in UK Super LeagueAAPApril 28, 2016 7:40amApril 28, 2016 7:40amA CANADIAN team have set their sights on securing a place in Super League after being formally admitted to the third-tier of the British professional game.

KHL wants to expand

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potential_Kontinental_Hockey_League_expansion

NFL will probably expand in London soon enough. AFL in China. 

I dont like it but I certainly see potential in an Australian majority team based ASEAN league. 

AFL in China?

Not a fucking chance in hell. :P

Can't see 6,000 anywhere except in someone's imagination.

It's called believing in one's own propaganda and illusions. Self hypnosis sought of.

national Division 2 

2nd Perth
2nd Adelaide
Geelong
South Melbourne
Wollongong 
South Sydney
2nd Brisbane/Ipswich 
Northern Fury
Gold Coast
Canberra

Then in like 15-20 years for the 3rd tier

Penrith
Ballarat 
Bendigo
Hobart/Tasmania 
Darwin
North Sydney
Sunshine Coast
South East Melbourne/Dandenong 
West Melbourne/Werribee
2nd Brisbane/Ipswich (whichever doesn't get selected in the 2nd tier

I see two questions to answer when setting up a second division.

1. Will the second division run in Summer or Winter?
2. Should a second division have promotion/relegation?

What do you think?

I reckon winter with relegation down to state leagues...

I think Tasmania is ripe for the picking now! Soccer is growing at an alarming rate here plus the AFL is taking the people here for granted and dicking them around with Hawthorn/North Melbourne deals.

Perfect for a second division team representing the 'region' (as opposed to current NPL teams).
 Only issue would be stadia with Bellerive hosting cricket and needing a fair chunk of $ to build some seating aroung KGV(FFT HQ). Although it lacks seating(capacity over 10,000) I think North Hobart Oval would be perfect for football.

I came across this over the weekend. I understand it's not Australian Football but with all the talk of expansion and divisions and pro/rel lately I found it somewhat relevant and a good insight into growing a football club and introducing professionalism to a semi-pro club.

http://www.sbs.com.au/ondemand/video/755326019860/class-of-92-out-of-their-league

I posted the graphic in another thread here, but I'm linking to an offsite post where I give background on the particular A2 model I've come up with:

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/new-team-ideas-and-teams-that-should-not-be-in-the-a-league.1140325/page-3#post-46838915

That graphic is beautiful!

Completely against a united Tassie side. Do you expect fans to drive 2 hours to support another cities team?

Besides I belIeve you could really benefit off of the triabilism that exists after the FFA Cup. 

As do I - just not straightaway. Hence this Div2 initially containing a shitload of 'regional' licences as opposed to the combined-Melb/Syd comp it'll become over time anyway (due to pro/rel to/from the State NPLs).

Once a single marketing dollar is spent?

South Hobart (or new full Hobart team, or a bit of both) and a Northern Tas team. Leverage that rivalry with a Tassie Derby unmatched in any other code and still get the pro Tassie fervour when playing other teams. NPL sized costs in an A2-League. Keeping both teams local in their areas so youth players don't spend their lives on the bus.

It would probably be popular in Tasmania.

:) you'd also wish that if 1 or 2 Tasmanian clubs played in a national league that Tasmania could get its own FTA.

Cornsdog and co hosting/calling the games for the local market. Either love or via studio.

#strawberry kisses #Yellow slice of cheese

That is true, they have their own aggregated TV networks there, and an enterprising administration absolutely could come to a deal with them separately.

A simple thought experiment would probably have them on a better wicket if they had an A-League team than what FFA gets from NZ....

The huge risk of Tasmania is that the population is so small (less than Blacktown, Penrith and The Hills LGAs) and a large proportion are totally obsessed by ALF. That code is heavily promoted by the main local media especially in Hobart.

The other demographic issue is that the average age of the population is quite high and less likely to be inclined to actually go out and actively follow a new franchise.

The we come to the economics. There is no proper rectangular stadium on the island and no money to finance one. Even if there was they would probably have to build it somewhere like Ross as the north/south politics would make a project like this controversial from the get go - Working Dogs' "Utopia" ep on this topic was not entirely fictional.

Finally the average disposable income in Tasmania is quite low. To be brutally frank it would be hard to sell $30 tickets for 30 odd games to a population that has the highest level of welfare dependency outside of the NT.

I think if they had a team in a national or national 2nd division comp..... and it was on tv, which was my point, it would be popular. If a FTA got the rights they would promote it. 

How ever many thousand watched Timmy at Perry Park on the tv, but only 3000 were there. Attendence is not an issue, either is the venue. Its whether people watch it on tv that would matter. 

If Tassie had its own tv deal like NZ, and it was on FTA... and they were getting visits from Cahill and Essian and all the A-League clubs I cant see how it would not be doing better than WP. Even if the matches had smaller crowds because of capacity. More would watch it on tv. 

Football is quite popular down here and does get a lot of AirPlay in the news. Devonport were talked about everywhere even first cab off the rank in the sports news during the ffa cup. They usually talk about NPLTas just as equally of not more than our AFL state league.
There is a market here.

I look at my kids school and there's more kids with soccer balls/tops than there is afl stuff.

The way the AFL treats people down here in regards to AFL fixtures as well as trying to control the local game to suits there needs of draftees is growing thin on people.

Grounds are an issue especially considering they end up with cricket pitches in them during summer but I think North Hobart Oval would be perfect. Yes it's an oval but it's relatively small and yes it is mostly terraces with a few different stand around the boundary but I think it would be a great starting point in a div2. It's had a-league pre season fixtures before

And here's one with a nrl pre season game

I get the feeling a Tasmanian side, united or not, would be embraced by the state. It seems different to other states because of its history or non of sporting teams in national leagues. It also seems metrics wise you could count the state number instead of the city/cities. Wont get a team but would probably have more support than a few clubs out there now. 

Just throwing my detailed 2 cents on the second tier and expansion model...

  A2 Proposal

Open the gauntlet and take in EOI’s on the model & view the candidates.
Does the FFA have the resources or care factor for it, unfortunately not at this point in time.

Commencement of season
8 weeks before the HAL to capture the football purist and minimise overlap in seasons.
Eventually I’d strongly suggest that the play-offs of the A2 are completed by the conclusion of the H & A season of the A-League. If there was to be any pro/rel model, I’d conservatively suggest a two legged play-off between the bottom A-League side v Play Off winner of the A2 model.
Imagine the tense and hostile environments between the scared professional side verse the dreamers & battlers of the second tier. It would be an enthralling tie and one which would capture neutral interest and TV audiences alike.
Benefits of this means a majority these sides can have their respective sides play in the NPL in winter & A2 in the summer. Yearlong development for this pool of players. It also means that whilst the money/salary floor for average players in the A2 may be just ok, playing the other 6 months in the NPL means they earn enough for it to become a full time profession.
Ideally the A2 needs to start small, conservatively and eventually grow much like the HAL has. It doesn’t have to immediately have pro/rel from the get go. At least a second tier where the “best of the rest” can compete amongst one another on a regular basis and really up the standard to which the NPL is played at in its current format.
By starting small we should encourage all applicants but a majority of teams will come from NSW and Melbourne. Realistically there may be only 8 sides that take the risk and form the A2, however at least it provide a stepping stone for other applicants that wish to expand the second tier.

Candidates of A2 teams

Tasmania United – Direct pathway to the state’s best talent. Home base in Hobart however games to also be played in Launceston and one or two to be played in Devonport. If someone a north & south Tasmanian side could present the finances and valid business cases, we should be welcoming of this development. However I think the conservative option on a state based team will be low risk and provide the necessary links to semi prof football.

South Melbourne – No brainer with their current facilities and rich history. Could really take the plunge with the HAL tomorrow if the FFA were more open to expansion.

Heidelberg United – As above. Also provides representation of Melbourne’s northern suburbs and can channel development of those talented kids into a semi-professional team.

Melbourne Knights – As above. Also provides representation for Melbourne’s western suburbs being Sunshine based and can channel development of those talented kids into a semi-professional team.

Oakleigh – This is the only NPL side that I can think of which represents the south-east of Melbourne. My ambitious plan of a SE Melb side based in Sandown Park is a pipedream unfortunately and one I cannot see the FFA manoeuvring. Alternatively Oakleigh represents both the Pakenham and Cranbourne train lines and has a rich “ethnic” history of the suburb itself.

Geelong – Direct pathway for new talent on the Ballerine Peninsula. Provides the region the opportunity to get the feelers out for a top tier side.

Ballarat Red Devils – A smoky but they do have the facilities at Morshead Park. If they can capture the backing required from the local community they would be a nice inclusion.

Canberra – If they aren’t admitted into the HAL it’s a no brainer. Again a direct pathway to direct the best ACT talent to a representative side

Wollongong – Pretty much the same as Canberra if they aren’t Inc in future HAL expansion.

Macarthur Rams – Based deeply in Sydney’s south west. Macarthur would be my #1 choice for the next area of expansion. It won’t infiltrate WSW & Syd FC’s supporter bases but provides a growing region, suitable stadium in Campbelltown, future TV audience and is a very low risk option.

Sutherland Shire/Cronulla – Similar attributes to Macarthur baring it’s closer proximity to Sydney FC’s supporter base. If the FFA don’t expand to this region in the HAL then it is a no brainer to provide a second tier side to capture the best talent in the region. Apparently has very high junior participation rates.

Sydney United – The history of the club and it’s constant participation of the FFA shows the club is a resource that should be tapped into for a semi-professional competition. The junior pathways are already in place, now we just need the platform to showcase the best of the rest that for whatever reason can get an opportunity in the top tier.

In terms of other Sydney representation. Being a Victorian I cannot claim to know the NPL sides too well or the areas worth pursuing. The difficult situation Sydney has is teams like Syd United, Marconi, Blacktown, Syd Olympic & even Penrith all infiltrate WSW’s heartland. Does the FFA want to cannibalise the Wanderers support? I highly doubt they’d even consider it.

Gold Coast – Palm Beach Sharks seem like the most likely option at this point in time. If Gold Coast can establish a facility suitable for an A2 side then I’d be all for it. A community based club that starts small would be ideal to get the feelers out there again.

Brisbane Strikers – If the FFA don’t have a crack of bringing in the Strikers in the HAL with an upgraded Perry Park then the Strikers well and truly deserve to have its place in Australia’s second tier. Qld has talented youngsters in the SE of the state but unfortunately don’t have the pathways to capitalise on it.

Western Pride/Ipswich – If the region can present a viable business case then I’m all for it. A growing region in which the sport could richly gain the yields of a long term development plan.

North Qld/Far North Qld – I question early days if this region could sustain the excessive travel expenses they would have to absorb in the A2. If a club in the region can secure the funding and provide the necessary backing to cover cost. It would be a fantastic pathway for youngsters in the region as we see so many talented players from the area have to relocate for the opportunity. North Qld also provides the sport with a unique opportunity of hosting matches in very humid environments not dissimilar to what the Socceroos encounter in their tours of SE Asia. This niche environment can be very productive to training our generation next for similar environments with the Joeys & Olyroos.

Adelaide City – If a second tier Adelaide side can again provide a viable business case then it would be fantastic for SA’s kids to pursue this option if they can’t break into Adel United’s system.

Overall that’s 17 candidates that could throw their hat in the ring. Whilst Ipswich & Oakleigh may be seen as ambitious it just goes to show that if the FFA did take EOI’s on a second tier they could be in for a surprise. The research on travel costs would be critical to ensuring costs are kept sustainable and ensure it doesn’t cripple the competition.
However a healthy mix of old NSL sides with a proven development model alongside growing regions with strong football participation has the recipe for ensuring the next generation of youngsters coming through don’t fall through the net and provide them with the opportunities required to flourish.

We've had a national curriculum from FFA all about improving the quality of our young players and ultimately the national team, and I reckon that's great. We also however have had FFA types talk about making football the number one code in the country, but they haven't actually put out a plan that says how they're going to do that. They must think it will happen naturally. For me, I don't care if football is the number 1 or 2 or 3 code, but I just hope that it just maintains in the long term, a thriving domestic competition, a strong national team, and a strong mainstream media presence.  For me, the FFA and the current A-League clubs need to start thinking about releasing a 10 and 20 year vision for our domestic competition outlining the long term goal of how they want that domestic competition to look, and how that structure will BENEFIT THE GAME. ie. How many teams they want, how many areas they want covered with a local team and how they propose to get the type of saturation media coverage the other sports get. Personally, I don't see anymore than a one division maximum 16 team A-league in the next 10 years, but maybe in 20 years, the landscape will have changed and we as a country could support a bigger number of teams. But hey, how will we know what we're aiming for unless FFA and the A-League clubs put something out there to identify what they want to achieve FOR THE GAME ?

They already released the plans in their "whole of football plan"

The document has this short section
"COMPOSITION OF THE A-LEAGUE
The A-League will aim to be the strongest Football league in our region. Every major Australian centre with a population over 500,000 has the market size to host an A-League club. A-League competition expansion will come as a product of sustainable commercial growth, via a managed process of “in and out” as circumstances arise, rather than a relegation and promotion system based purely on results. This is critical to retain the strategic market placement of clubs which underpins the commercial viability of the league. New entrants to the A-League will need to meet criteria based on funding, football development, stadium capacity and facilities, and community engagement that any NPL Club or New Consortium will need to satisfy: In particular any NPL Club or New Consortium will need to be professionally run, and prove a concrete demand based on participation and population in a region."

There is no detail to it. It doesn't set out the total number of clubs they want to end up in the top tier, where they want them, it doesn't set out the detailed criteria the clubs will need to meet to be accepted.

Australia already is the strongest football league in our region (ASEAN). 

They dont state the metrics because if they dont state them they wont have clubs knowingly reach them. 

The only metric they did state - 500k, is bullshit also, because a city/region with 510000 is big enough but Melbourne with over 4 million is too small for 3 clubs. 

They had 11k at that NRL game apparently which all things considered is terrific.

According to the Aus Stadiums site NHO can hold 18k so that's feasible if people are prepared to accept a non-rectangular ground.

All that's required now is someone with deep pockets or someone with one deep pocket and the skills to organise a community ownership
 thingy like the Bundesliga or someone in politics who is prepared to make the consumption of one tin of Red Bull compulsory in Tas. Come to think of it they could sell Tas to Dietrich Mateschitz and he could ban AFL and resurrect the old Longford street circuit for F1 and RB Hobart-Lonnie would be a logical next venture. Simples.

The new Aston Villa owner wants a franchise system like CFG and stated Austtalia as a goal.

Could do the colours with a red Lion on the emblem.