Gallop wants big locations as expansion teams and South-West sydney actually has closer to 830k people. 1,048,000 by 2021 and 1,298,000 by 2031.
http://strategies.planning.nsw.gov.au/Portals/0/Documents/13_Draft_Metro_SouthWest_Subregion.pdf

Stadium wise, Campbelltown stadium could be used or a new stadium in liverpool which would be more ideal. From what I've read Liverpool is kinda like Parramatta in that it is like the CBD for southwestern sydney.

Sure, they might all support the wanderers now, but come 2018 i wouldn't be surprised to hear "they don't represent all of western sydney" or similar rhetoric that was used against sydney fc for a western sydney team.

This is my bet for a new team, but i don't think gallop wants to say anything to disrupt the momentum the wanderers have going atm.

Edited by tbitm: 28/9/2013 09:27:08 AM

My view is that through expansion, football can become the national game, without the geographical divisions suffered by the AFL and NRL. The method to achieve this is through a two tier competition, A1 and A2.

I believe the FFA must be wise and consider a multitude of factors before implementing a new expansion team. Unfortunately, I don't think Wellington Phoenix, or any other NZ team would be viable in the long run.

A1 and A2 teams should be fully professional, allowing tv broadcast of both division, ensuring a national coverage at all times.

A League First Division
1.Sydney FC
2.Western Sydney Wanderers
3.South West Sydney team
4.Newcastle Jets
5.Central Coast Mariners
6.South Coast/Wollongong team
7.Canberra team
8.Melbourne Victory
9.Melbourne Heart
10.South Melbourne team
11.Brisbane Roar
12.North Queensland Fury
13.Adelaide United
14.Perth Glory

A League Second Division
1.Second Perth team
2.Second Adelaide team
3.Tasmania
4.Darwin
5.Gold Coast
6.Sunshine Coast
7.Cairns
8.Ipswich
9.Geelong
10.Victorian team
11.Victorian team
12.NSW team

In summary, this adds up to:
NSW (including ACT) - 8 teams
Victoria - 6 teams
Queensland - 6 teams
South Australia - 2 teams
Western Australia - 2 teams
Tasmania - 1 team
Northern Territory - 1 team

I believe this is a fair distribution of teams in each particular state allowing for adequate representation. Further down the line, promotion and relegation can work between the two tiers, as they are both professional, and that the teams would not be allowed in A1 or A2 without fulfilling requirements on and off the pitch.

NPL teams, can also enter or add into A2 by fulfilling these requirements.
It will take a lot of experimentation, but a A1 26 round home and away fixtures + final series + promotion and relegation playoffs, with A2, NPL, FFA cup, and ACL, running in parallel, the national public will surely enjoy.

I'm encouraged by the fact Gallop has said that promo/rel isn't on the table at this stage because even if all we did was used the winners of the APL for HAL entry, how in heavens' name could they suddenly become a viable HAL club? It's just ludicrous.

I'm also not convinced state league/NPL clubs are what is needed to form the Div 2, although perhaps the winner of the NPL should go into Div2 once that's up and running.

We have to look broader than that and explore new and growing markets, forming teams based on geographical regions. How about this:

Form U21 sides from the following regions:
Illawarra/Shoalhaven
Canberra
Geelong
Ballarat
Albury/Wodonga
Riverina
Western NSW (Orange/Dubbo/Bathurst)
Coffs Harbour/Mid-North Coast
Gold Coast
Ipswich
Sunshine Coast
Townsville (Fury)
Cairns
Darwin
Hobart

If the level isn't high enough make it U23s on a case by case basis.
Enter them into the NYL, expanding youth football dramatically by doing so. Two conferences by geographical region.

Ensure the local football associations/clubs are on board with this and see it as an extension and integral part of what they are doing rather than something that's being imposed on them. Semi-pro players is fine, perhaps with 1 import.

Work with the associations to ensure that within 2-3 years they have a setup ready for a national Div2 comp which would have a senior and NYL side.

Hopefully by that stage there will be at least 2 sides ready for HAL Div 1, say Canberra and NQF.

The rest become Div2 with NPL effectively staying as a quasi Div3, with NPL winner progressing to Div2.

No promo/rel from Div2 to Div1 until it is clear that teams will be able to support a top-tier HAL side. Perhaps a funding arrangement could be worked out by the FFA.

These are all just thoughts but I really see the need to expand elite football in this country without returning to state league sides that have limited fan appeal and at the same time open up new markets for the game and consolidate the game around the country.

For me it's really hard to see P/R, even with a proper A2 league, football is fragile in this country and could you imagine the hurt if an A1 team got relegated, would the supporters come, would the owners leave? where would they play?

I think this is what everyone is overlooking or ignoring. Sure, it would be brilliant to have two professional tiers with promo/relo but I don't believe it would ever be viable in Australia. We are struggling to create one league with 12 teams that are all financially viable.

I think some people need to take the rose tinted glasses off and truly think whether promo/relo, or even a fully pro second division, would work in Australia.

It could work if the competition was confined to the A-league Pre-season (so it would only ever be a 7(8 teams)-11(12 teams) week 1 round comp) like a WC qualification path going straight into the coming a-league season the following week

Let say in the first year the teams that did not make the previous finals (so currently bottom 4) get relegated to the A2 in which they make up half of the competition. The FFA would only need to find and subsidise four ring in teams (which for some of the NPL clubs would a substantial pay off compared to their current revenues) to "complete" the league.


Edited by GDeathe: 28/9/2013 02:34:41 PM

but what happens when our national competition loses say, Perth, Adelaide, Brisbane or even Wellington. Are those clubs going to survive a couple of years in the second tier? Will the A-League continue to be our premier football league with only eastern state represented? CCM and Heart would probably not survive being relegated, perhaps the same could be said for Newcastle, but these wouldn't matter as much as the one club states.
Besides the clubs have all purchased A-League licences to play in the A-League. This franchise arrangement is different to other leagues. The clubs who have paid good money for their licences won't take kindly to being stripped of the place they purchased, nor will they accept others being promoted into the league when they haven't paid for the licence rights.
I'm not sure of the clubs arrangements but hasn't Hunter Sports got the A-League rights to Newcastle until 2020 or something? Surely relegation and promotion won't occur while clubs own the rights to play in the league.

I don't think you understand my system. Not only does it give relegated teams a 2nd chance to play in the following season but they do it by playing against a bunch of "Washington generals" teams so there is basically no way current club would be fully relegated, they'd just start their season earlier

Excitement building in Hobart for all A-League clash

It will be a ground-breaking day for Tasmanian football this Sunday as Hobart hosts its first ever clash between two Hyundai A-League teams as the Melbourne Victory and Western Sydney Wanderers come to town.

With Tasmania's showpiece football events traditionally held in Launceston, it will be Hobart’s turn to shine as the sport continues to grow in the region.

The match is set to take place at Kingston Twin Ovals and will also feature a Tasmanian select side that will take on a second Melbourne Victory outfit.

Football Federation Tasmania (FFT) CEO John Boulous admits there is a lot of buzz in the local community as the matches draw closer.

“With two of the A-League's top teams coming to Hobart it is a huge double header for us and a fitting end to the Victory League season,” said Boulous.

“It is a massive event on the calendar for all involved from the fans to the Tasmanian players that are getting the opportunity to play on the day also.

Boulous is hoping that the excitement surrounding the event will bring a strong crowd through the gate.

“We are really hoping that the crowds are bursting at the seams for the event.

“This is the first time two A-League teams have played each other in Hobart so we hope that fans vote with their feet and turn up to the match so we can continue to attract such events to Hobart and the Tasmania region in the future."

The match will also give a host of Tasmanian players an opportunity to put their skills on show in front of two of the A-League’s top coaches.

“The players playing in the first game get the opportunity to play in front of top coaches and thus have the chance for talent identification which is a great opportunity for them,” said Boulous.

With the sport growing strongly in recent times in the state, Boulous believes that the region’s partnership with the Melbourne Victory has done wonders for the promotion of the game.

“Football is growing and growing in Tasmania and with the partnership with the Victory we have had unprecedented exposure.

“The sport regularly features on nightly news broadcasts, on the radio and in the newspapers, ensuring there is a constant buzz state wide about the game and more and more money being put into its development.

“From that then we are able to provide a pathway for juniors to come through the ranks and have a realistic shot at achieving their dreams.”

Recognising the need for more facilities due to the sport’s growth, FFT have put in a proposal for a dedicated football district at Cambridge.

“There is a proposal for a football precinct in Cambridge that will act mainly as a junior participation hub.

“It will be a training base for teams and also have a feature ground that will allow teams to play all year round."

Furthermore, the future could see a rectangular stadium be erected in Hobart that would bring fans closer to the action.

“A rectangular stadium would be great for the region. It wouldn’t need to be a huge one and it is something that a few sports could utilise.

“It would bring a greater atmosphere and no doubt bring a tremendous atmosphere to football in Tasmania.”

This weekend’s matches are the first of a busy period for the state as they host a number of high-class fixtures.

“We have a few big matches coming up with the Victory League winners South Hobart taking on South Australia’s Campbelltown City in the NPL Finals series.

“We also have a team from Malaysia in Sarawak that are hosting a fourteen day camp in Tasmania and will play a host of local teams.”

Such events will continue to build the profile for the sport in the region but Boulous does not believe a Tasmanian A-League team is viable in the near future.

“A crucial part of the partnership with the Victory is to bring more feature matches and A-League teams to the area. It is also to help increase the standard of football here.

“It is not a strategic priority of FFT at the moment to attain an A-League license as we know that it is not sustainable at the moment.

“We are looking to consolidate what we currently have, increase football content across the state and increase exposure of football to the community.”

The opening match between the Tasmanian select side and the Victory kicks off at 12.00pm this Sunday at Kingston Twin Ovals before the Victory and Wanderers clash at 2:30pm. Tickets can be purchased from Yes Optus stores, Kingsborough council and FFT Headquarters.

Look, I wouldn't want promo/rel until Div 2 has been going a decade or so. When we can see there are enough Div 2 clubs to cope with div1 and if a div1 club gets relegated it doesn't mean a lack of focus on football in the area then we can put it in place.

IMO we're at least a decade off promo/rel.

http://www.footballaustralia.com.au/news-display/article/Excitement-building-in-Hobart-for-all-A-League-clash/75658

Thoughts? time to put Tasmania down the list?

Edited by iridium1010: 29/9/2013 02:17:53 PM

http://www.liverpoolchampion.com.au/story/1769379/why-sydneys-south-west-is-an-afl-rugby-nrl-and-a-league-soccer-desert/

Gallop wants big locations as expansion teams and South-West sydney actually has closer to 830k people. 1,048,000 by 2021 and 1,298,000 by 2031.
http://strategies.planning.nsw.gov.au/Portals/0/Documents/13_Draft_Metro_SouthWest_Subregion.pdf

Stadium wise, Campbelltown stadium could be used or a new stadium in liverpool which would be more ideal. From what I've read Liverpool is kinda like Parramatta in that it is like the CBD for southwestern sydney.

Sure, they might all support the wanderers now, but come 2018 i wouldn't be surprised to hear "they don't represent all of western sydney" or similar rhetoric that was used against sydney fc for a western sydney team.

This is my bet for a new team, but i don't think gallop wants to say anything to disrupt the momentum the wanderers have going atm.

Edited by tbitm: 28/9/2013 09:27:08 AM

the nz derby, something i hope to see in the a-league in the future.

Galaxy NPLV bid spurred by youth
By Donald Sutherland June 6, 2013

Greater Geelong Galaxy Chairman Joe Madunic says he is motivated by the fact local junior footballers could look elsewhere for elite competition should his consortium be unsuccessful in its National Premier League Victoria (NPLV) application.

Speaking exclusively to MFootball, Mr Madunic also said his entity has received support from “traditional” clubs within the local region, a stance quite different from the metropolitan area.

“We’re a new entity, and we’re working towards getting a united bid for Geelong and we owe it to our kids basically to say hey, we’re going to do this for you guys so we can nurture talent and nurture good coaches and nurture good football in our region so we don’t miss the boat and be left behind,” Mr Madunic said.

“That’s probably one of the major reasons why we are actually going ahead with this bid and I think we’re getting a lot of support because of it.

“I think everyone is coming to the realisation that being excluded out of the NPL will pretty much shut the gate in terms of the next three years of football development in Geelong.”

The Galaxy chairman outlined the landscape of Geelong’s football community, where the ‘big’ sides play in FFV metropolitan competitions, saying that if a Geelong side wasn’t accepted into Victoria’s top tier, young footballers would go elsewhere.

“Over the journey, the local competition has been up and down. Most clubs who are FFV affiliated or clubs that are basically playing in Melbourne as a senior club try to get their juniors clubs through at some stage, and that’s been pretty good for player development but it’s got to a stage now where with the new NPL requirements that juniors will not be allowed to play in Melbourne as of 2014.

“In the presentation slides from the FFV … I think on page 24, [it says] all regional clubs will not be allowed to put in teams into the Melbourne competition.

“So teams like Ballarat Red Devils, if they don’t get a license in the NPL, all their juniors would have to go back and play in the Ballarat competition. Or if Geelong didn’t get a license in the NPL, all our kids would have to go back and play in the Geelong competition.

“Traditionally what’s happened in the past when Geelong teams haven’t been allowed to play in Melbourne, players will go up the highway and find a club in the western suburbs somewhere where they can ply their trade and even some coaches have moved up the highway.”
Mr Madunic, who is a passionate supporter of North Geelong Warriors, said he was empathetic to particular metropolitan clubs who have snubbed the new competition due to the licence structure.

“It is a bit of a cultural change, it’s moving away from tradition but they’ve got the opportunity to work out if they want to keep their traditional club’s name, colours, heritage, history, culture – whatever you want to name it.

“Some clubs feel that their clubs culture and tradition are above the NPL, and in some cases, I do agree with them. Melbourne Knights – 60 years of history, North Geelong – 45 years of history, do they want to put all their eggs in one basket and go in a new direction? That’s a big call to make.

“A lot of those metro clubs … the Victorian Premier League clubs, they’ve been clubs for a long, long time. You’re talking about the Oakleighs, you’re talking about the South Melbourne Football Club, you’re talking about the Melbourne Knights, you’re talking about clubs who have been around ever since post-war migration in Australia.

“They’ve got a lot of tradition; they’ve produced a lot of great players – not just for Victoria but also for Australia. So I can’t say much for them, I can’t speak on their behalf but I do understand why. I honestly, as an individual, do understand why they might not want to take the plunge into the NPL because they’re protecting the community club that they are.”

Madunic, who was also secretary at North Geelong Warriors when they were State Champions, acknowledged the financial burden an NPLV license could incur, but said it was something his group had to address in order to provide opportunities for the young Geelong-based footballers.

“The other side of it is the cost factor and charging fees of up to seventeen hundred dollars,” Mr Madunic said.

“Yeah, it is a concern for some clubs, and in the climate of sport and finding dollars through sponsorship – yeah, they are challenges but they are challenges that we in Geelong definitely have to have a decent crack at because if you don’t have a decent crack at it, like I said, we don’t want to be left in the wilderness and we’ll have a mass exodus of players going up the highway to chase their dreams.

“We’re working through that (sponsorship) at the moment. We’re talking with external stakeholders; we’re working with internal stakeholders. We have got a little bit of backing from the local region within our organisations here.

“We’re pretty confident that we can cover the criteria that’s there. We’ll know a little bit more once the expressions close … and we’ll know a little bit more in the next phase once they start releasing more information about the application process itself and what the FFV can do to help us in a lot of the strategic areas.”

The chairman of the bid also revealed that the Greater Geelong Galaxy identity, which was born out of the Victorian Champions League, would exist for one season before a vote would be put to its members to change.

“This new entity, if we do get the NPL, will run for one year or basically for one cycle. Once the membership and the governance is up, then the members will decide which way they want to go in terms of ownership, in terms of colours, in terms of name, in terms of the board structure and things like that.

“So we’re doing this as an interim measure until the governance up and going, until we get the membership base up, and until we get an AGM where obviously the members will vote what direction they want to take the NPL licence if we are successful in getting one.”

The Wanderers are already a South-West Sydney team. Bringing an A-League team to Fairfield/Liverpool would be a disaster since everyone here already supports the Wanderers. The Liverpool bid was a joke, attempt to recreate Liverpool in England over here.

The likely scenario is the Wanderers moving further south-west (there is a huge area for a stadium & HQ & training compex at the barely used Fairfield Showgrounds), with a new Penrith team in the future and a potential Campbelltown team as a pie in the sky idea.

"attempt to recreate Liverpool in England over here". You're havin' a laugh right? What liverpool bid are you talking about? If its the stadium one that happened pretty recently when discussing where to build a new stadium, "Liverpool" is just what the place is called. Coincidence.

Isn't the likely scenario that Parramatta stadium gets upgraded? If that happens, I can't see you guys leaving it anytime soon, especially since the fans picked that stadium.

Don't you think we'd all be better off if we pretended that the Knights never existed? :lol:

I wonder if there's any impediment to giving Auckland City a licence as-is; they seem to have their shit together and with a bit of funding (not to mention the same payout Phoenix get) they could go far.

Would anyone be upset if Liverpool (the red one from England) took a role in developing a team for the South East corridor of Sydney, based out of Campbelltown Stadium and with admin, etc. based in the Liverpool business area? Hypothetical of course.

If they play at Campbelltown it won't be an issue. Campbelltown is as far from the centre of Sydney as it is from Parramatta. Because we're not likely to ever have a North Sydney or Sutherland team (because of Sydney FC), the best way to get 4 teams in Sydney will be WSW (Either staying at Parra or moving to Fairfield), Sydney FC, Penrith/Blacktown and Campbelltown.

So get Liverpool to pay for a team in Liverpool/Cambelltown, and get Penrith Panthers to pay for their own team in Penrith? Could be onto something. :-k

Push sydney fc to the south:)

No. I'm not having a laugh. I'm serious. People with links to Liverpool Council and several major companies in the area wanted to create a new club in Liverpool Sydney, that would replicate Liverpool from England here (same kit, similar logo, playing YNWA, that sort of thing). There were discussions with Liverpool FC, that may have extended to meetings in the UK with Liverpool FC and in the US with the club ownership.

I concur. Parramatta has a maximum capacity of 30,000 supposedly, so when I talk about other stadiums for WSW that is after Parra is maxed out and we need more. This would be long-term. The club might love Parra, and the people have chosen it, but if there comes a day when WSW can become a better club by moving away from Parramatta, it will happen, and the best location for that is Fairfield Showground. In the future, 10 or 15 years down the track, Fairfield Council will still be hospitable to the Wanderers (and Football in general), we might have Chris Bowen, who is from Fairfield, as the Prime Minister, and the council will still have Fairfield Showground just sitting there.

Will the club turn down a 40,000 seat stadium, with in-built training facilities, club office/headquarters, and the ability to tap directly into some of the most football loving people in the country, along with the chance to build revenue creating services like a social club and extra fields of various sizes (11v11, 9v9, 7v7, 5v5/futsal) that people could hire. It's an extremely long-term goal but I feel it is the most likely to happen.

But could someone help me with the maps posted above please.