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patjennings
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I really think that the thing that sets Football apart is the broad range of acceptance.
TBH NSW follows RL then football then the Swans (not AFL). This is why GWS will struggle. Anyone that follows AFL in Sydney already follow the Swans. This is very similar to the Heart's problem in Melbourne.
WSW is a bit different. They had the market waiting to be tapped. f they had been established under the John O'Neill model then a second team in Sydney based out of Allianz would be struggling like Heart.
I think we need to shy away from the 2nd/3rd/4th teams in areas and look to expand elsewhere and make a truly national footprint.
I would add these 4 at the next TV deal
South Coast/ Wollongong Canberra Tasmania Darwin/Surabaya (young, parochial fast growing city) tied with a football mad AFC city
If eventually NZ join the AFC then I would bring in Auckland next then
Northern Fury Gold Coast United Geelong Dandenongs Goldfields Coffs Coast Sunshine Coast
I know this is very east coast biased. But I don't really know enough to make suggestions elsewhere.
Meanwhile, if any of these areas want to be considered for future inclusion, I'd love to see the NYL expanded to include some or all of these teams as a basis for building clubs/support.
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Timmo
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Ok I think we will eventually get to 12 teams and then we will start looking at the NPL for teams to either make the step up or wait until promotion/relegation to come through.
The strengh of the teams overall performance in the National Premier Leagues is where teams could make a smooth transition from NPL to A-League.
The success of the Western Sydney Wanderers from the number of new fans going to other NSW venues means the FFA would likely play it safe and look to Canberra and Wollongong as the next two options.
Please don't bring the state-based argument into this as it least we will have covered pretty much all of NSW and ACT.
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williamn
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if our goal is to be bigger than the nrl and afl some day, then having more teams in nsw and victoria is a must. i really dont buy the arguement that we should not give any more nsw, victorian expansion spots because its becoming an east coast league. i think the best perspective to have when deciding on expansion locations is to imagine as though we are a winter sport playing from march-september and deciding which teams we would need/would survive in order to survive against the nrl/afl. if we are to directly compete with them, we would need atleast 4 teams in victoria and nsw and 2 teams in queensland
vic: 1. victory, 2. heart, 3. geelong, 4. dandenong nsw/act: 1. sydney fc, 2. newcastle, 3. central coast, 4. western sydney 5. wollongong, 6. canberra qld: 1. brisbane, 2. ipswich
+adelaide, perth, wellington and one more from either (townsville, sunshine coast, auckland, hobart)
and theres our 16 team league.
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WaMackie
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Brisbane Ro wrote:Would someone mind explaining to me why Fremantle has suddenly become the new expansion club darling? WA rich mining state. cash flow there.
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Joffa
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I think you can forget about Fremantle as a short to medium term expansion option....the biggest drawback is TV scheduling.
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TimmyJ
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Thanks Iridium. Some very interesting stuff there.
I also think promoting from the NPL is yo nig of a step. Need ideally a national second division but a joint NSW VIC league with a conference system (Benjamins system) would still be a step up. could also include Canberra/Wollongong/Geelongexpansion bid teams. Expansion teams could join this league simular yo how Gold Coast played a season in the VFL.
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Razor Ramon
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Brisbane Ro wrote:Would someone mind explaining to me why Fremantle has suddenly become the new expansion club darling? As some one mentioned earlier, You can replicate the derbys like in Sydney and Melbourne. I am actually a fremantle dockers fan too. I have a few Legit points why it could be a good Idea to bring them in... -There are around 300-350,000 people live at and Around the Fremantle area. Gosford has only around 300,000 people and they get 9,000 a game. -Considering the dockers get 30-35,000 people at games at subiaco, a fair few of them would travel by train to get to subi. I could see the same thing happen with Freo fans going by train to travel to NIB stadium in the Perth CBD. -WA population has increased a fair bit. There are around 2.4-2.5 million people living in WA. With in 10 years, the Population of WA will be over 3 million. -The west coast eagle effect... The West coast eagles have many members and pack out a 43,000 seat Subiaco oval plus they have a waiting member list of 20-30,000 people. Its come to a point where some have given up patience and Joined up as Freo members. If Perth Constantly fill up NIB, then you could squeeze in another WA side. So there are some good points. But that is my theory anyway.
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A16Man
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Illawarra Mercury wrote:Dreaming of South Coast A-League success By MITCH COHEN Nov. 5, 2013, 3:26 a.m. FOOTBALL
The A-League dream may yet be years away for Football South Coast, but with the season under way, the Mercury selects the region’s dream team.
Packed with local players and led by Albion Park Socceroos star Luke Wilkshire, the South Coast outfit would test the A-League’s best with a wealth of experience and exciting talent.
It features players from four current A-League clubs, as well as the likes of Wilkshire and Scott Chipperfield, plus Brendon Santalab and Steve Hayes, who have experience in overseas competitions.
GOALKEEPER
Justin Pasfield
Current Team: Central Coast Mariners
Age: 28
The gloveman helped the Mariners to their first A-League title last campaign and is now a mainstay between the sticks at Bluetongue Stadium. Pasfield made one appearance for the Wollongong Wolves before the NSL crumbled nearly a decade ago and has since been on the roster of five A-League teams. If the South Coast were to form a team, the in-form shot-stopper would be the first man to pull on the gloves.
DEFENDERS
Matt Jurman
Current Team: Sydney FC
Age: 23
With two A-League titles at two different clubs, Jurman knows what it takes to win silverware in Australia. He returned to Sydney FC for the 2013-14 campaign and is looking to shore up a spot in the unstable Sky Blues defence. After starting his football life as a Wolves junior, Jurman has played more than 50 games in the national league. His youthful experience and height make him a must in the centre of defence.
Aaron Calver
Current Team: Sydney FC
Age: 17
It may be a little premature, but there is no doubting Calver has a big future. Having already made a handful of appearances for the Sky Blues at just 17, the central defender is sure to make an impact in the coming years. Calver has been at the helm of Sydney’s youth squad defence to start the season and has helped the Sky Blues to a pair of clean sheets in two victories. A switch to any senior side in the A-League would not shock.
Pedj Bojic
Current Team: Sydney FC
Age: 29
As an inaugural A-League All-Star, Bojic has established himself as the best right-back in the competition. After over 100 appearances and an A-League title with the Central Coast, he made the move to the harbour city for this season. The Warilla junior still has plenty of good years left and wouldn’t look out of place leading deep forays up the WIN Stadium touchline in the future. Bojic’s attacking threat from the back is as strong as his ability to keep up with best wingers in the game.
Luke Wilkshire
Current Team: Dynamo Moscow
Age: 32
Starting at Albion Park, before moving to the Wollongong Wolves, Wilkshire has called Russia home for the past five years. He has been a key player throughout both of the Socceroos’ two previous World Cup campaigns and is aiming to make it a hat-trick of appearances in Brazil 2014. As a right-sided utility and member of Australia’s ‘golden generation’ of footballers, Wilkshire brings that little bit of star power to any South Coast venture.
MIDFIELDERS
Scott Chipperfield
Current Team: FC Aesch
Age: 37
One of the region’s favourite sons made an unlikely return to the Illawarra Premier League with Tarrawanna for a guest stint this season and showed he still exudes the class he left Australia with over a decade ago. A two-time Johnny Warren Medallist with the Wolves, Chipperfield moved to FC Basel in 2001 and made close to 300 appearances for the Swiss powerhouse. As a member of the Socceroos’ 2006 and 2010 World Cup campaigns, the tireless left winger brings experience and class to the table.
Ruben Zadkovich
Current Team: Newcastle Jets
Age: 27
A passionate Bulli and Wolves junior, Zadkovich is a born leader on the paddock. As the current Jets captain, the no-nonsense midfielder mixes tough tackling with enthusiastic offence in inspiring fashion. Zadkovich has spent time in the English second division and took out a title with Sydney in the first season of the A-League. At 27, he could be the man to lead a South Coast venture for the long term.
Steve Hayes
Current Team: South Coast Wolves
Age: 28
With his flowing blond hair, Hayes has the ability to become something of a cult hero for any future A-League franchise. The 2011 NSW Premier League player of the year spent last season leading the South Coast Wolves midfield and should consider himself unlucky for never getting the chance to play in an A-League uniform. What better place to make your national league debut than on home soil?
ATTACKERS/STRIKERS
Corey Gameiro
Current Team: Sydney FC
Age: 20
A freak injury in the pre-season has him sidelined for the current A-League campaign, but the Port Kembla junior is ready to make his mark on the domestic scene. After spending the majority of his junior years at English Premier League club Fulham’s youth academy, Gameiro has returned to Australia to play with the Sky Blues. At the ripe age of 20, there is plenty of upside for Gameiro.
Mile Sterjovski
Current Team: Central Coast Mariners
Age: 34
A return to Wollongong would complete a career full circle for Sterjovski. The winger began his football life in Illawarra over 20 years ago and is still bamboozling defences Australia wide. Spending time in France, Turkey, England and Switzerland, this football journeyman’s experience and driving runs would be more than welcome on the highly touted WIN Stadium turf.
Brendon Santalab
Current Team: Western Sydney Wanderers
Age: 31
As far as front men go, Santalab is exactly what every team needs. The South Coast striker has a nose for goal, with a habit for scoring spectacularly. This goal-scoring nous is matched by his hard working mentality and versatility in attack, which could see him play wide on the right in a three-pronged attack.
SUBSTITUTES
Jacob Timpano – has A-League experience and was a key man in the Wolves’ survival campaign in 2013.
Ricky Zucco – one of the NSW Premier League’s best goal scorers. http://www.illawarramercury.com.au/story/1886334/dreaming-of-south-coast-a-league-success/?cs=298This is one of the featured articles on the Mercury's website this morning, thought I'd post it.
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Jowel
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I was chatting with my mate who is an Adelaide boy and a mad Port Adelaide fan. I noticed a massive similarity in the way the expansion of the national AFL competition was done into Adelaide when comparing this to the A-league in Sydney. Basically, before the AFL expanded the national competition into Adelaide (in 1991), aussies rules was (and still is) massive in the local South Australian competition. The biggest team by far was Port Adelaide, who won the comp most times and had a huge following. The rest of the competition essentially just made up the numbers. Then when it came time for the AFL to expand the national competition into Adelaide, Port Adelaide put together a proposal to join and looked set to be approved. However at the 11th hour all the other clubs in Adelaide got together and formed a rival bid called the Adelaide Crows. Adelaide Crows was essentially a new club with no pedigree but got approved and entered the competition. Port Adelaide were left out of the party, despite being the biggest and most successfull club in South Australia with a rich pedigree. It was 6 years later when the AFL allowed Port Adelaide entry to the competition (in 1997). The hatred between the 2 clubs was already there due to the history of how the Crows leapfrogged Port in getting earlier entry into the competition. In their first season Port Adelaide won the first ever derby game against the Adelaide Crows with a rag tag bunch of old and rookie players (apparantly the best ever Port Adelaide game). This was despite the fact that Adelaide Crows were the best team in the comp and went on to win the comp that year. Since then both clubs have been more or less even in terms of on and off-field success.In terms of memberships and crowds, Port have slightly less than Adelaide. But considering Port's members are based on just 1 club, whilst the Crows are drawing from a number of SAFL clubs then that's understandable. I see the comparision with West Sydney and Sydney FC. For a stupid reason Sydney FC was created first and based away from the heartland of the football in Sydney. It was a club for everyone, but in fact noone. And the FFA resisted the introduction of West Sydney until 7 years after Sydney FC. West Sydney is in fact the club that should have been first in the A-league. It is based in a region with a rich football pedigree with a massive fanbase. In fact, when Sydney FC put together its bid the preference was to play out of Parramatta Stadium in the heartland. Once the bid was won the FFA demanded the team play at the Sydney Football Stadium instead, in the east of the city, because they knew that a Western Sydney team would one day be inevitable and that Sydney FC, an eastern club, would need the head start it has so far recieved.
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VedranFC
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Exactly Jowel, and now we have a blossoming Sydney derby and SFC averaging the highest attendance in the comp, we needed that head start and it doesn't seem to have slowed ws much so what's your point why so bitter about us?
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williamn
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Jowel wrote:I was chatting with my mate who is an Adelaide boy and a mad Port Adelaide fan. I noticed a massive similarity in the way the expansion of the national AFL competition was done into Adelaide when comparing this to the A-league in Sydney. Basically, before the AFL expanded the national competition into Adelaide (in 1991), aussies rules was (and still is) massive in the local South Australian competition. The biggest team by far was Port Adelaide, who won the comp most times and had a huge following. The rest of the competition essentially just made up the numbers. Then when it came time for the AFL to expand the national competition into Adelaide, Port Adelaide put together a proposal to join and looked set to be approved. However at the 11th hour all the other clubs in Adelaide got together and formed a rival bid called the Adelaide Crows. Adelaide Crows was essentially a new club with no pedigree but got approved and entered the competition. Port Adelaide were left out of the party, despite being the biggest and most successfull club in South Australia with a rich pedigree. It was 6 years later when the AFL allowed Port Adelaide entry to the competition (in 1997). The hatred between the 2 clubs was already there due to the history of how the Crows leapfrogged Port in getting earlier entry into the competition. In their first season Port Adelaide won the first ever derby game against the Adelaide Crows with a rag tag bunch of old and rookie players (apparantly the best ever Port Adelaide game). This was despite the fact that Adelaide Crows were the best team in the comp and went on to win the comp that year. Since then both clubs have been more or less even in terms of on and off-field success.In terms of memberships and crowds, Port have slightly less than Adelaide. But considering Port's members are based on just 1 club, whilst the Crows are drawing from a number of SAFL clubs then that's understandable. I see the comparision with West Sydney and Sydney FC. For a stupid reason Sydney FC was created first and based away from the heartland of the football in Sydney. It was a club for everyone, but in fact noone. And the FFA resisted the introduction of West Sydney until 7 years after Sydney FC. West Sydney is in fact the club that should have been first in the A-league. It is based in a region with a rich football pedigree with a massive fanbase. In fact, when Sydney FC put together its bid the preference was to play out of Parramatta Stadium in the heartland. Once the bid was won the FFA demanded the team play at the Sydney Football Stadium instead, in the east of the city, because they knew that a Western Sydney team would one day be inevitable and that Sydney FC, an eastern club, would need the head start it has so far recieved. yep those sort of situations are good for expansion within cities. i guess an a-league equivalent would be having a team such as brisbane strikers or adelaide city.
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leftrightout
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Jowel wrote:I was chatting with my mate who is an Adelaide boy and a mad Port Adelaide fan. I noticed a massive similarity in the way the expansion of the national AFL competition was done into Adelaide when comparing this to the A-league in Sydney. Basically, before the AFL expanded the national competition into Adelaide (in 1991), aussies rules was (and still is) massive in the local South Australian competition. The biggest team by far was Port Adelaide, who won the comp most times and had a huge following. The rest of the competition essentially just made up the numbers. Then when it came time for the AFL to expand the national competition into Adelaide, Port Adelaide put together a proposal to join and looked set to be approved. However at the 11th hour all the other clubs in Adelaide got together and formed a rival bid called the Adelaide Crows. Adelaide Crows was essentially a new club with no pedigree but got approved and entered the competition. Port Adelaide were left out of the party, despite being the biggest and most successfull club in South Australia with a rich pedigree. It was 6 years later when the AFL allowed Port Adelaide entry to the competition (in 1997). The hatred between the 2 clubs was already there due to the history of how the Crows leapfrogged Port in getting earlier entry into the competition. In their first season Port Adelaide won the first ever derby game against the Adelaide Crows with a rag tag bunch of old and rookie players (apparantly the best ever Port Adelaide game). This was despite the fact that Adelaide Crows were the best team in the comp and went on to win the comp that year. Since then both clubs have been more or less even in terms of on and off-field success.In terms of memberships and crowds, Port have slightly less than Adelaide. But considering Port's members are based on just 1 club, whilst the Crows are drawing from a number of SAFL clubs then that's understandable. I see the comparision with West Sydney and Sydney FC. For a stupid reason Sydney FC was created first and based away from the heartland of the football in Sydney. It was a club for everyone, but in fact noone. And the FFA resisted the introduction of West Sydney until 7 years after Sydney FC. West Sydney is in fact the club that should have been first in the A-league. It is based in a region with a rich football pedigree with a massive fanbase. In fact, when Sydney FC put together its bid the preference was to play out of Parramatta Stadium in the heartland. Once the bid was won the FFA demanded the team play at the Sydney Football Stadium instead, in the east of the city, because they knew that a Western Sydney team would one day be inevitable and that Sydney FC, an eastern club, would need the head start it has so far recieved. Port fans love to gloat on how they had the divine right to join AFL first when in fact Port is also the most hated club in SA. They have never had the same membership and crowds that Crows get due to the Crows coming in to represent all of SA. Putting a united team together was the best possible start for AFL in Adelaide. AFL finally gave in and gave the baby it's rattle back. Port has been financially struggling since day one. So no not really similar to WSW at all. WSW are much more successful as a club due to the geographical distance from the Sydney CBD and the the fact that it's very multicultural and more accepting of soccer. Adelaide United was created on a very similar way the Crows were. We had two main NSL Clubs in Adelaide City and West Adelaide and a lot of ethnic divisions in smaller local clubs. On the back of West Adelaide dropping out of the NSL and a struggling City, United was created and thus united all of SA. I'm not a fan of a second A-League team in SA as we are too small and in soccer terms we are best supported as a one team town.
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tbitm
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Jowel wrote:I was chatting with my mate who is an Adelaide boy and a mad Port Adelaide fan. I noticed a massive similarity in the way the expansion of the national AFL competition was done into Adelaide when comparing this to the A-league in Sydney. Basically, before the AFL expanded the national competition into Adelaide (in 1991), aussies rules was (and still is) massive in the local South Australian competition. The biggest team by far was Port Adelaide, who won the comp most times and had a huge following. The rest of the competition essentially just made up the numbers. Then when it came time for the AFL to expand the national competition into Adelaide, Port Adelaide put together a proposal to join and looked set to be approved. However at the 11th hour all the other clubs in Adelaide got together and formed a rival bid called the Adelaide Crows. Adelaide Crows was essentially a new club with no pedigree but got approved and entered the competition. Port Adelaide were left out of the party, despite being the biggest and most successfull club in South Australia with a rich pedigree. It was 6 years later when the AFL allowed Port Adelaide entry to the competition (in 1997). The hatred between the 2 clubs was already there due to the history of how the Crows leapfrogged Port in getting earlier entry into the competition. In their first season Port Adelaide won the first ever derby game against the Adelaide Crows with a rag tag bunch of old and rookie players (apparantly the best ever Port Adelaide game). This was despite the fact that Adelaide Crows were the best team in the comp and went on to win the comp that year. Since then both clubs have been more or less even in terms of on and off-field success.In terms of memberships and crowds, Port have slightly less than Adelaide. But considering Port's members are based on just 1 club, whilst the Crows are drawing from a number of SAFL clubs then that's understandable. I see the comparision with West Sydney and Sydney FC. For a stupid reason Sydney FC was created first and based away from the heartland of the football in Sydney. It was a club for everyone, but in fact noone. And the FFA resisted the introduction of West Sydney until 7 years after Sydney FC. West Sydney is in fact the club that should have been first in the A-league. It is based in a region with a rich football pedigree with a massive fanbase. In fact, when Sydney FC put together its bid the preference was to play out of Parramatta Stadium in the heartland. Once the bid was won the FFA demanded the team play at the Sydney Football Stadium instead, in the east of the city, because they knew that a Western Sydney team would one day be inevitable and that Sydney FC, an eastern club, would need the head start it has so far recieved. Anyone else gag at this post? It's the kind of post I'd expect from someone who enjoys the smell of their own flatulence.
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nickk
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The reason Sydney FC was going to be put at Parramatta stadium is because of the massive rent at the SFS, no other reason. Kogarah was not fully redeveloped at the time so that would have been the other option. The only reason for the 5 year exclusivity would have been because they were having problems raising any money at the start of the A-league. If there had been more interest in investing in Western Sydney the comp would have started with two teams for sure, because the FFA had to pull a lot of strings to get some of the teams going particulaly the Mariners/
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nickk
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Jowel wrote: I see the comparision with West Sydney and Sydney FC. For a stupid reason Sydney FC was created first and based away from the heartland of the football in Sydney. It was a club for everyone, but in fact noone. And the FFA resisted the introduction of West Sydney until 7 years after Sydney FC.
The stupid reason was that no one wanted to invest in a West Sydney club, thats why your funded by the FFA. Of course you can point to the Chris Tanner group, or the defacto ANZ stadium. In fact the FFA should just take the money and sell you ungrateful whingers to the highest bidders, whether its ANZ stadium or the Penrith mob.
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Jowel
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nickk wrote:Jowel wrote: I see the comparision with West Sydney and Sydney FC. For a stupid reason Sydney FC was created first and based away from the heartland of the football in Sydney. It was a club for everyone, but in fact noone. And the FFA resisted the introduction of West Sydney until 7 years after Sydney FC.
The stupid reason was that no one wanted to invest in a West Sydney club, thats why your funded by the FFA. Of course you can point to the Chris Tanner group, or the defacto ANZ stadium. In fact the FFA should just take the money and sell you ungrateful whingers to the highest bidders, whether its ANZ stadium or the Penrith mob. The tragedy is that at the inception of the A-league, a club based in Sydney's west, playing at Parramatta Stadium with the necessary investors was all ready to go. Unfortunately it got cut down. Sydney FC originally proposed to play at Parra Stadium, with 100% financial backing from Football NSW. But after they won the bid, Lowy got involved, moved the club to Moore Park, forced Football NSW out and installed his son as a major owner. The rest is history. Read more here if you wish: http://www.smh.com.au/news/Soccer/NSW-cut-ties-with-new-club-over-Lowy/2004/12/11/1102625585718.htmlSydney FC should have evolved through Football NSW and not through Frank Lowy and his yes-men. Edited by Jowel: 5/11/2013 01:54:02 PM
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Axelv
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Just a thought.
To keep A-League teams closer to the community it represents. Don't you think that A-League clubs should be aiming to attract talented local players?
E.g Players who are either born in that city/state, or have resided there for more than 5 years, should be eligible for a 25% increase of income outside of the salary cap? It would entice more players to stay in their home states and keep the local flavour, and passion for the respected region.
E.g you wouldn't want a club with the majority of it's players from NSW and QLD that is representing Perth, would you? Or a club with mainly VIC and QLD players representing the sky blue shirt.
Edited by axelv: 5/11/2013 02:03:20 PM
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A16Man
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Axelv wrote:Just a thought.
To keep A-League teams closer to the community it represents. Don't you think that A-League clubs should be aiming to attract talented local players?
E.g Players who are either born in that city/state, or have resided there for more than 5 years, should be eligible for a 25% increase of income outside of the salary cap? It would entice more players to stay in their home states and keep the local flavour, and passion for the respected region.
E.g you wouldn't want a club with the majority of it's players from NSW and QLD that is representing Perth, would you? Or a club with mainly VIC and QLD players representing the sky blue shirt.
Edited by axelv: 5/11/2013 02:03:20 PM I think it definitely helps. You feel more connected to a local making their way into the team than some other. Hence the love I have for Chippers (his recent outbursts aside). But at the end of the day, how important is it if the team is successful full of players from other areas? Also, players from other areas can still connect with locals such as how Jerrad Tyson in Western Sydney and Zadko in Newcastle have. Comes down to how the players act with the local community.
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Nate
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I think the appeal of Fremantle for an A-League club is rather similar to the appeal it had for the AFL; a significant sub-centre of Perth, the largest CBD area outside of the 6000 post code, and most importantly, as a distinctive group identity. The group identity thing is a big plus because it gives a nice big catchment that will attach to it for parochial reasons, whilst at the same time its not an exclusionary identity (lots of people like hanging out in Freo). There's a significant Italian influence in that area that they may be able to capitalise on as well.
And I'm progressively coming to the view that there is a significant football community in WA that is not, unfortunately, being catered to by Perth Glory. A Fremantle team might help reinvigorate the state though.
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Gyfox
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Axelv wrote:Just a thought.
To keep A-League teams closer to the community it represents. Don't you think that A-League clubs should be aiming to attract talented local players?
E.g Players who are either born in that city/state, or have resided there for more than 5 years, should be eligible for a 25% increase of income outside of the salary cap? It would entice more players to stay in their home states and keep the local flavour, and passion for the respected region.
E.g you wouldn't want a club with the majority of it's players from NSW and QLD that is representing Perth, would you? Or a club with mainly VIC and QLD players representing the sky blue shirt.
Edited by axelv: 5/11/2013 02:03:20 PM The ideal situation is for clubs to draw players from their region. Unfortunately some regions don't produce enough players of sufficient standard to make up the majority of their squad and for this reason in my view the next great emphasis in the league should be the clubs getting more involved in growing the grass roots of the game in their area. In a presentation to WSW fans the other week Lyall Gorman said that the club's aim is to get to the point where 60% (might have been 65%) of players in the squad were local. I expect that most if not all clubs have a similar aim. Your idea of a 25% increase in cap for "local" players would advantage those clubs that can afford to pay more. I personally don't think that is a good idea. At this stage where funds are in short supply I'd rather the "fortunate" clubs spend any excess on growing the grass roots and on the elite level coach and player development pathway.
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Lastbroadcast
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There's no problem with it being an east coast league if that's where all the grassroots football players and fans are. Ultimately it doesn't matter how much money is sloshing around, if very few fans exist for the club, it's going to fail (Gold coast a good example).
Think of it this way: The NRL only has one team in Melbourne which is right. The AFL has two teams in Sydney, and that's probably one too many. The A-league used to have three teams in Queensland but only one team in Sydney, which of course we all know was a complete joke.
Ultimately to make a new team successful you have to find a large community of football fans and players with a distinct identity who don't feel represented by an A-league team yet.
Where is the game played and followed? To me the most obvious places where there are lots of "unrepresented" fans are:
Canberra/Quenbeyan Wollongong/South Coast South Sydney/St George/Sutherland area - (yes, I know there are SFC fans from here) New Zealand - (Auckland and Christchurch have both drawn 15-20k crowds for Phoenix games) South Melbourne (could easily move, rename or sell Melbourne Heart)
Once you've found these fans, ask them what they want and give it to them. Just like they did with the Wanderers. Really FFA should throw this process open to the fans soon to see where the interest is.
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General Ashnak
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Gyfox wrote:Axelv wrote:Just a thought.
To keep A-League teams closer to the community it represents. Don't you think that A-League clubs should be aiming to attract talented local players?
E.g Players who are either born in that city/state, or have resided there for more than 5 years, should be eligible for a 25% increase of income outside of the salary cap? It would entice more players to stay in their home states and keep the local flavour, and passion for the respected region.
E.g you wouldn't want a club with the majority of it's players from NSW and QLD that is representing Perth, would you? Or a club with mainly VIC and QLD players representing the sky blue shirt.
Edited by axelv: 5/11/2013 02:03:20 PM The ideal situation is for clubs to draw players from their region. Unfortunately some regions don't produce enough players of sufficient standard to make up the majority of their squad and for this reason in my view the next great emphasis in the league should be the clubs getting more involved in growing the grass roots of the game in their area. In a presentation to WSW fans the other week Lyall Gorman said that the club's aim is to get to the point where 60% (might have been 65%) of players in the squad were local. I expect that most if not all clubs have a similar aim. Your idea of a 25% increase in cap for "local" players would advantage those clubs that can afford to pay more. I personally don't think that is a good idea. At this stage where funds are in short supply I'd rather the "fortunate" clubs spend any excess on growing the grass roots and on the elite level coach and player development pathway. The better option is to increase the player cap, not the salary cap. Add an extra 3 spots for under 21 year old players.
The thing about football - the important thing about football - is its not just about football. - Sir Terry Pratchett in Unseen Academicals For pro/rel in Australia across the entire pyramid, the removal of artificial impediments to the development of the game and its players. On sabbatical Youth Coach and formerly part of The Cove FC
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nickk
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Jowel wrote:nickk wrote:Jowel wrote: I see the comparision with West Sydney and Sydney FC. For a stupid reason Sydney FC was created first and based away from the heartland of the football in Sydney. It was a club for everyone, but in fact noone. And the FFA resisted the introduction of West Sydney until 7 years after Sydney FC.
The stupid reason was that no one wanted to invest in a West Sydney club, thats why your funded by the FFA. Of course you can point to the Chris Tanner group, or the defacto ANZ stadium. In fact the FFA should just take the money and sell you ungrateful whingers to the highest bidders, whether its ANZ stadium or the Penrith mob. The tragedy is that at the inception of the A-league, a club based in Sydney's west, playing at Parramatta Stadium with the necessary investors was all ready to go. Unfortunately it got cut down. Sydney FC originally proposed to play at Parra Stadium, with 100% financial backing from Football NSW. But after they won the bid, Lowy got involved, moved the club to Moore Park, forced Football NSW out and installed his son as a major owner. The rest is history. Read more here if you wish: http://www.smh.com.au/news/Soccer/NSW-cut-ties-with-new-club-over-Lowy/2004/12/11/1102625585718.htmlSydney FC should have evolved through Football NSW and not through Frank Lowy and his yes-men. Edited by Jowel: 5/11/2013 01:54:02 PM That article shows exactly what is the problem with these state federations consuming and wasting registration fees with dodgy activities. Recruitment consultant Lou Sticca , why do you need a recruitment consultant. In fact Lowy's son was not majority owner until after the first year losses meant the club needed refunding. The one line that counts for me is the following Quote:Soccer NSW, which was expecting to provide a $1.25 million investment in the club, now faces the bizarre situation of having walked away from the club it effectively formed. Maybe they thought it would just take 1.25 million to make a team. If they hadn;t put a cent in by that date how do they claim to have formed the team when they had already started signing players and were employing people. Obviously they were dumped because they wanted to control and spend other people's money. And you believe they were going provide 5 million. The other fantasy regard Sydney FC's formation is the rival bid from Politis, Lowy contacted him to invest in a team but he wanted nothing to do with it, and people claiming then it was a bid being rejected because it was ethnic its unbelievable the misinformation. Lowy no doubted wanted two teams to start off with probably with Politis and Travtenko and others for the East and Football NSW and Peter Turnbull for the west.
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VedranFC
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Lastbroadcast wrote:There's no problem with it being an east coast league if that's where all the grassroots football players and fans are. Ultimately it doesn't matter how much money is sloshing around, if very few fans exist for the club, it's going to fail (Gold coast a good example).
Think of it this way: The NRL only has one team in Melbourne which is right. The AFL has two teams in Sydney, and that's probably one too many. The A-league used to have three teams in Queensland but only one team in Sydney, which of course we all know was a complete joke.
Ultimately to make a new team successful you have to find a large community of football fans and players with a distinct identity who don't feel represented by an A-league team yet.
Where is the game played and followed? To me the most obvious places where there are lots of "unrepresented" fans are:
Canberra/Quenbeyan Wollongong/South Coast South Sydney/St George/Sutherland area - (yes, I know there are SFC fans from here) New Zealand - (Auckland and Christchurch have both drawn 15-20k crowds for Phoenix games) South Melbourne (could easily move, rename or sell Melbourne Heart)
Once you've found these fans, ask them what they want and give it to them. Just like they did with the Wanderers. Really FFA should throw this process open to the fans soon to see where the interest is. Campbelltown/South West Sydney is miles ahead for a team than what you've mentioned. Plus you're understating how well SFC is represented there - along with the Inner West that is our biggest support area, wouldn't be much good for us. Also I'd like to think there are heaps of places in our own country that are crying out for a team before another overseas team - a Brisbane derby for one thing.
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VedranFC
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Nate wrote:I think the appeal of Fremantle for an A-League club is rather similar to the appeal it had for the AFL; a significant sub-centre of Perth, the largest CBD area outside of the 6000 post code, and most importantly, as a distinctive group identity. The group identity thing is a big plus because it gives a nice big catchment that will attach to it for parochial reasons, whilst at the same time its not an exclusionary identity (lots of people like hanging out in Freo). There's a significant Italian influence in that area that they may be able to capitalise on as well.
And I'm progressively coming to the view that there is a significant football community in WA that is not, unfortunately, being catered to by Perth Glory. A Fremantle team might help reinvigorate the state though. Would love a Perth derby actually the more I think about it. Now that there's a good football ground, imagine that place packed to capacity, Glory fans filling the Shed end and Fremantle fans taking up the entire South stand chanting back and forth. Would be epic. Long way off realistically though, FFA don't give a damn about anything outside NSW/Mexico/Queensland :(
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ExpandTheA-League
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If the A-League averages 85,000 per round, 17,000 per game for the 27 rounds of the season, we would have smashed last seasons home & away attendance with just under 2.3 million (61.5k= 1,666,005 12/13 season). 5 games per round: 90,000 per round = 2.43 million*-18k 80,000 per round = 2.16 million — 16k 75,000 per round = 2.02 million-15k
Average 14,000 per game, per round with 14 teams in the league (15k x 7 games x 26 rounds [2x13]) would make 98,000 attending games per round which we would then able to reach just under 2.55 million.
Place/s that should draw crowds of over 8k+: Wollongong (illawarra) Geelong (Greater Geelong Region) Ipswich/West Brisbane (SE QLD) Gold Coast (SE QLD) Townsville (northern QLD) Hobart (S Tasmania) Canberra (ACT) Auckland (Northern NZ)
But the clubs need to be involved with the community well before they enter, allow them to pick the Clubs Crest, Colours, Jersey Style. Allow the people to prepare for a club in the possible near future. Finally allow them to have a culture about the club, if you have no culture you could have less interest, which means you might now show up for your team when they are down.
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Lastbroadcast
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I just noticed this comment from David Gallop back in July which I thought was interesting: http://theworldgame.sbs.com.au/australia/news/1160142/Barcelona-next-on-Gallop-s-All-Stars-wishlistQuote:Have you got any plans for expansion beyond the 10 teams?
We're committed to the current 10 teams under the current broadcast deal. Certainly, expansion will happen at some point, but not until we've stabilised the current structure and assisted our current clubs to further grow their own businesses to a more sustainable point.
Have you got a year in mind?
No, but it's a few years off.
What about particular areas?
I've got a view that you need to be looking at areas that have millions of people as population rather than hundreds of thousands, and certainly there are a number of options within that criteria. But it's tough running a football club in any code in this country and you need to have a good base to work off. If millions of people are the criteria, that rules a lot of places out.
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A16Man
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Lastbroadcast wrote:I just noticed this comment from David Gallop back in July which I thought was interesting: http://theworldgame.sbs.com.au/australia/news/1160142/Barcelona-next-on-Gallop-s-All-Stars-wishlistQuote:Have you got any plans for expansion beyond the 10 teams?
We're committed to the current 10 teams under the current broadcast deal. Certainly, expansion will happen at some point, but not until we've stabilised the current structure and assisted our current clubs to further grow their own businesses to a more sustainable point.
Have you got a year in mind?
No, but it's a few years off.
What about particular areas?
I've got a view that you need to be looking at areas that have millions of people as population rather than hundreds of thousands, and certainly there are a number of options within that criteria. But it's tough running a football club in any code in this country and you need to have a good base to work off. If millions of people are the criteria, that rules a lot of places out. Yeah I remember that comment but I don't see how it could work in the near future. I just can't see another team being viable in a big city, at least not in the near future. Another Sydney team won't be a great success like WSW and Melbourne Heart still haven't solidified themselves in the Melbourne marketMaybe an Ipswich team to be a second Brisbane team if you like, but is there the support/demand for a team there?
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Brisbane Ro
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Lastbroadcast wrote:If millions of people are the criteria, that rules a lot of places out
Hello Auckland and Singapore ?
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williamn
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i do not like the idea of having second adelaide or perth teams if it means a sharing of stadium.
i am however in favour of an ipswich team because of its geographical differentiation and since they will have their own stadium at north ipswich oval.
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