ohhh my mistake i thought they died too!!

Yes and i would like it if no more went the same way.

Ringwood is still around.

I think i know which club that was, and if im right our rugged ex Melbourne Croatia captain George Hannah came from the same club.

there are lots that have died over the years.

melb hungaria
footscray just- not that im shedding tears over that one.
slavia
ringwood
caufield city
frankston city
sunshine city

These are just a few that used to be power house clubs in Melbourne in the 60's,70's and 80's but now gone forever.

Edited by cro69: 20/6/2013 06:15:45 PM

Thanks dirk.

have a look at moreton bay jets, as it is the franchise entitity of albany creek excelsior
so mbj has the elite and ace has all the community part but they are one of the same .

While reading about Jai Ingham of Olympic FC as one of the best players outside the A-League it was with interest that I read about how Olympic FC operates within the NPLQ framework and compare it with Victorias framework.

The Name: Olympic FC under FFV participation agreement the name does not qualify as acceptable.

The Teams;
National Premier Leagues
NPL Senior Men- Required
NPL Under-20 Youth Men Required
NPL Under-18 Youth Men Required
NPL Under-16 Boys Required
NPL Under-15 Boys Required
NPL Under-14 Boys Required
NPL Under-13 Boys Required
NPL Under-12 Boys Required
NPL Under-15 Girls U16
NPL Under-14 Girls Required
NPL Under-13 Girls U12

Missning FFV requirements
NPL Senior Womens
NPL U20 Womens
NPL U18 Womens


Football Brisbane

Senior Men (Capital League 3) (Capital League 3 Reserves) Not allowed
Senior Men (City League 1) – Senior Women (City League 1) Not allowed
Men’s Under-18s (Division 2) – Women’s Under-18s Not allowed
Under-15 Girls (Division 1) – Under-15 Girls (Division 2) Not allowed
Under-14 Girls (Division 3) Not allowed
Under-13 Boys (Division 3 South) Not allowed

Under-12 Boys (Division 2 South)Not allowed
Under-12 Girls (Division 1)Not allowed
Under-12 (Girls Division 2) Not allowed
Small Sided Football Not allowed
Under-11s, Under-10s, Under-9s, Under-8s, Under-7s, Under-6s Not allowed
Squirts Not allowed
Ages: 6 to 3

Clinics
Olympic FC is proud to again welcome the Michael Theo Soccer Academy to Goodwin Park for the Brisbane Roar star’s Specialised Goalkeeper and Outfield Player Soccer Clinics in July 2013. See below for details.

Must be cost recovery basis only, seprate accounts must be presented

Olympic FC 8-11 Years Academy
Everyone at Olympic FC is currently enjoying the best period of the clubs existence as they are now part of the FFA’s Elite Player Pathway and competing within the National Premier Leagues.
The club is also investing considerably in youth development, putting in place an exclusive development program for 8-11 year olds. This will act as a foundation for the future of the club within the new NPL.
The Academy program has been tried and tested over this last year and has been found to be successful, as six of our NPL Under-12s came through the program this year.

Must be cost recovery basis only, seprate accounts must be presented.
Also expected that Olympic FC would be putting on FREE clinics on a regular basis for local community Clubs


Club Constitution
http://olympic.pagodabox.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/Olympic-Constitution.pdf

Fails to comply with FFV requiements

Registration fees:
NPL Seniors: $940 Fits within framwork
NPL Juniors (U16s-U12s): $940 Fits within framwork

Football Brisbane Competition Senior Men: $600 Not allowed
Football Brisbane Competition Senior Women: $635 Not allowed
Football Brisbane Competition Juniors (U18s-U12s): $435 Not allowed
Small-Sided Football: $335 Not allowed
Squirts: $210 Not allowed


http://palmbeachfc.com.au/w/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/NYC-Selection-Process-Letter-to-Parents_201305141711.pdf

Found this interesting if your selected for junior QLD Rep teams and go to the National Championships it will only cost a selected player $3,000.


Edited by Arthur: 14/6/2013 11:35:32 AM

Edited by Arthur: 14/6/2013 11:51:29 AM

I know for a fact that our club will suffer from the NPL Men's/Women's requirement. Sandringham City has been playing in the WPL for the last 5 years or so, having been rather successful the last few seasons. However when the NPL is up and running we won't be a part of it because our men's team is all the way down in State League 4. We have a current Matilda on the books as well as having developed a few in the recent years but once this goes into effect they will all go to other clubs.

The Men's and Women's teams should be separate because the development systems are different, men and women develop in different ways. Tacking on a women's team to clubs without the experience of developing women will only impact upon the Matildas in the long run.

Once again it is not the FFA vision that is in question rather the FFV add-ons.

I am aware of the Qld situation and have saved an announcement of one Club partnering with another to provide the Womens/girls program.

The FFV has given no indication that this is even possible,PARTNERSHIPS.

I have also used the Youtube piece having the Qld CEO with FFA exec's and Han Berger talking to clubs, we have had nothing like that kind of contact.

[quote=Arthur

In NSW you don't have a cap on Registration fees in VIC we do.
I know that APIA was charging $2,400 registration fee and $1,500 for SAP. I beleive most are in this range if not significantly more.

In NSW you don't have the Womens/Girls component. In Victoria all clubs successful in the NPLV must field a womens senior team and reserves along with junior girls teams. The implication is that in Victoria more coaches will be required in one hit.
Add to this more facilities are required.

Also in NSW the NPL did not include regional centres in Victoria the FFV is pushing hard for this to happen. This will present a range of issues, such as quality of play, expected decrease in revenues etc etc

In NSW the corporate structure of Clubs was discretionary, in QLD a Company structure. In Victoria Incorporated Associations, this limits the ability of Clubs ability to raise capital while on the other hand this structure rewards Clubs with existing large volunteer and supporter bases.

The FFV actually wants new Clubs either startup or consortiums to apply yet they have not allowed for a corporate structure that can support this type club which will require investment capital to be successful. These Clubs will rely on cashflows and lets not forget are restricted in revenues they can get directly from the junior support base and indirectly as a large junior base will increase revenue streams from canteen, functions, merchandising and fundraising activities. Then refer to my comments in previous paragraph about corporate structure.

It appears to me that the NPL is was designed more with NSW in mind especially in regards to high registration fees and Club Academey programs. The Vic version is more about "ideology".

We do agree on the issue of coaching accreditation numbers, compared to the big four of France, Spain, Italy and Germany who have approx 30,000 Uefa B and above licensed coaches. Comparativley we 10,000 active AFC B and above coaches.

But the NPL will not solve this, only the FFA and State federations can solve this by ahving enough coaching presentors and assesors and having enough courses. And offering those courses in a way that suits people who want to take up those courses.
Consideration to cost and time are also issues.
So when I see TV Money from Foxtel going to grassroots programs like Tim Cahills 2 day camps how can I not be cynical.

Han Berger himself lamented the lack of investment by the FFA in SAP and Skillaroo programs.

Interesting that you consider that everyone playing the same way will be of benefit, I respectfully disagree and the National Curriculum does not require that Club teams do. It is desirable that youth teams play 4-3-3 as a learning tool, as recommended by the Dutch methodology.
But then when coaches get their AFC A Licences they are required to develop their own style of play and tactics. Even in Holland clubs all have different playing styles and tactics. Cruyff and Ajax still glorify the 1-3-4-3.
Personally I would like to see clubs adopt Italian philosophies, Brazilian, Argentinian, French and Spainish. And that can only happen nowadays by importing coaches from these countries and I would like to see some of that too.

To finish off and to again show how the NPL is Sydney centric the zone concept has always been alien to Victoria. By limiting Clubs to zones and boundaries in Victoria there is no escaping the fact that the key football areas will be under represented. And this will affect the quality going forward in Victoria but appears something the FFV is prepared to sacrifice. Where as in NSW Zones/Associations have been the norm and with the high playing numbers in Sydney they become of no consequence to a Club as sufficient talented playing numbers are not an issue. In Victoria it will be.


Edited by Arthur: 13/6/2013 08:28:49 AM[/quote]

If you don't share the FFA vision then don't apply and from the outside this what it looks like.
As for girls teams in QLD 3 clubs city strikers and Olympic used community clubs to provide this function in PARTNERSHIP.

The consensus in Victoria from a club and supporter point of view the implementation of the NCR should have happened something like this.

All VPL Clubs would need to adopt the NCR recommendations as per the FFA requirements by the end of 2013, as a Licence participation agreement.

The FFA 10 criteria to form Licensing procedure any additions brought by FFV to be on a consensus agreed to by a majority of NPL clubs. Introduced immediateley or graduated.

The VPL is rebranded to NPLV Division One beginning of 2014. At the end of 2014 the criteria must now be applied to State One Clubs and the competition rebranded to NPLV Division two.

Clubs that fail to meet the NPLV Licence criteria should then be relegated to a "Community" division.

The vacancies should then be offered to regional/country clubs or new consortia.

Promotion and relegation to State One from State Two N/W and State Two S/E would be dependant on promoted clubs meeting NPLV Licence criteria.

After 3-5 years the expectation would be that the 2 State two regionalised leagues would also have to meet NPLV criteria.

The $50K Licence fees should be used on agreed (FFV & Clubs)marketing and business startergies with clearly defined and transparent KPI's.

The Elite Junior Competitions that require 10 months operations need a re-think in terms of facilities.

Councils in Victoria operate on community participation and access there has also been long standing understanding with seperation of winter and summer sports.

A collabrative approach by the FFV and Clubs is required in this instance, the FFV headquarters in Darebin has three synthetic pitches that are well over 10 years old and should have been replaced some time ago. As well as bringing them upto the modern synthetic pitches as there are many queries regarding the impact of injuries on our talented juniors due to the poor quality of the surfaces and the fact that it is used by our NTC, State Development squads, SAP, Skillaroos etc. These facilities need to be upgraded and shared with many of the Junior ELite Clubs. We also need more like this to help develop the elite junior.

There are facilities available in Melbourne but they are sparse and to get effective use co-operation agreements between Councils, FFV, Elite Clubs and Community Clubs would be required to accomodate the junior players and this would involve sharing.

I would also seperated Mens/boys clubs from Womens/girls clubs. Stand alone womens clubs have always been most successful in attracting women and having on field success. I don't mind them sharing a club brand but they are better off being seperate entities. It has always been the case that the male game has always taken precedence over the womens game this is the best way of growing the womens game in my opinion.


PS

I must say that the FFV does not appear to have ramped up the number of Senior Licence courses, AFC C and AFC B courses.

While there has been no transparent reports as to wether the FFV has sufficient presentors/assesors to run enough courses to meet the espected demand and requirements.

Currently our Skillaroos coach and our TD have been involved in running courses which may imply that we don't have the resources currently while I think we are wasting these people's time when they could be doing something else in line with their job titles.

I also have to say that from what I have seen of some AFC C coaches in action close up they have no idea about the NC, or how to coach children and this must be a reflection on the course delivery (not content) it doesn'tseem to sink in with some people.

Edited by Arthur: 13/6/2013 09:43:27 AM

Edited by Arthur: 13/6/2013 11:49:42 AM

I refer you to Arthur's excellent post a couple above this one.

In NSW you don't have a cap on Registration fees in VIC we do.
I know that APIA was charging $2,400 registration fee and $1,500 for SAP. I beleive most are in this range if not significantly more.

In NSW you don't have the Womens/Girls component. In Victoria all clubs successful in the NPLV must field a womens senior team and reserves along with junior girls teams. The implication is that in Victoria more coaches will be required in one hit.
Add to this more facilities are required.

Also in NSW the NPL did not include regional centres in Victoria the FFV is pushing hard for this to happen. This will present a range of issues, such as quality of play, expected decrease in revenues etc etc

In NSW the corporate structure of Clubs was discretionary, in QLD a Company structure. In Victoria Incorporated Associations, this limits the ability of Clubs ability to raise capital while on the other hand this structure rewards Clubs with existing large volunteer and supporter bases.

The FFV actually wants new Clubs either startup or consortiums to apply yet they have not allowed for a corporate structure that can support this type club which will require investment capital to be successful. These Clubs will rely on cashflows and lets not forget are restricted in revenues they can get directly from the junior support base and indirectly as a large junior base will increase revenue streams from canteen, functions, merchandising and fundraising activities. Then refer to my comments in previous paragraph about corporate structure.

It appears to me that the NPL is was designed more with NSW in mind especially in regards to high registration fees and Club Academey programs. The Vic version is more about "ideology".

We do agree on the issue of coaching accreditation numbers, compared to the big four of France, Spain, Italy and Germany who have approx 30,000 Uefa B and above licensed coaches. Comparativley we 10,000 active AFC B and above coaches.

But the NPL will not solve this, only the FFA and State federations can solve this by ahving enough coaching presentors and assesors and having enough courses. And offering those courses in a way that suits people who want to take up those courses.
Consideration to cost and time are also issues.
So when I see TV Money from Foxtel going to grassroots programs like Tim Cahills 2 day camps how can I not be cynical.

Han Berger himself lamented the lack of investment by the FFA in SAP and Skillaroo programs.

Interesting that you consider that everyone playing the same way will be of benefit, I respectfully disagree and the National Curriculum does not require that Club teams do. It is desirable that youth teams play 4-3-3 as a learning tool, as recommended by the Dutch methodology.
But then when coaches get their AFC A Licences they are required to develop their own style of play and tactics. Even in Holland clubs all have different playing styles and tactics. Cruyff and Ajax still glorify the 1-3-4-3.
Personally I would like to see clubs adopt Italian philosophies, Brazilian, Argentinian, French and Spainish. And that can only happen nowadays by importing coaches from these countries and I would like to see some of that too.

To finish off and to again show how the NPL is Sydney centric the zone concept has always been alien to Victoria. By limiting Clubs to zones and boundaries in Victoria there is no escaping the fact that the key football areas will be under represented. And this will affect the quality going forward in Victoria but appears something the FFV is prepared to sacrifice. Where as in NSW Zones/Associations have been the norm and with the high playing numbers in Sydney they become of no consequence to a Club as sufficient talented playing numbers are not an issue. In Victoria it will be.


Edited by Arthur: 13/6/2013 08:28:49 AM

Living in the past > conforming and dying on their knees.

I never said nor implied anything of the sort i simply explained i am not bigoted and am speaking from a position of regret that so many clubs went broke.I don't even think it was due to poor business decisions just a product of the times.

Would anyone want to read in 10ys time about the
Northcote City
                     
   Bentleigh Greens
                     
   South Melbourne
                     
   Hume City
                     
   Port Melbourne Sharks
                     
   Melbourne Knights
                     
   Dandenong Thunder
                     
   Pascoe Vale
                     
   Green Gully Cavaliers
                     
   Oakleigh Cannons
                     
   Southern Stars
                     
   Richmond
                     
now being no more due to falling on hard times and failing to be in the NPL

I personally would not but if they wish to be dinosaurs and live in the past then the future will be short and a sorry one IMO.

You can't blame that on the fact that they are a club with specific community ties.

You sound like paulc. Many clubs around the world have died over the years. Has nothing to do with anything except poor business decisions. Nothing more nothing less.

I think not i played for a Victorian cultural club during the 70/80s and am very proud of the football philosophy and life long love of football they gave me. try to pass that on today.But the club is no more and went broke, i would not like to see this happen again.


"By the 1980s the club had fallen on hard times and in 1983 the club ceased to exist"

Edited by krones3: 12/6/2013 06:52:15 PM

As for costs It is about time The FFA helped with Zones trying o obtain an income. Im not asking for money just planing help a model and possible legal support and Financial advice.The AFL and NRL do.

Edited by krones3: 12/6/2013 06:45:34 PM

What is the best thing for the game and the kids?

Only because as i said "their supporters bagged the A league and said they could not do with out them 8 years on and everything is going ok." If SMH FC wants to join the NPL, all good if not all good, they can do what ever they want to do.

The costs argument is not really one i agree with. Having gone through this process in NSW, and currently having to pay C-Licence coaches in all our youth squads, the costs has not really gone up by much. If anything, the benefit is greater, as we're charging more for rego fees than in previous years, and that's something across the board. I think its important that every coach has the appropriate accreditation. Australia is a country who has one of the smallest accredited coach to registered players ratio in the world, and its something we're just catching on to. the accreditation will hopefully move all kids and grown ups in to playing the same, or similar type of football that will one day be recognised as the australian way.

The only issue we had with costs here was that no club could be affiliated with an academy, saying that the structure that fnsw was implementing would provide sufficient coaching to the kids. 3 nights a week and game day for youth is probably enough i think. We've had situations in previous seasons where clubs take the rego fee then force their kids to join academies and go on trips at additional costs, and thankfully something is being done about this. Clubs here have however been allowed to maintain their juniors/association links, which plays a part with regards to costs, as they bumo up canteen and fundraising revenue, however, most clubs would struggle to charge association fees above what others in the association are charging, that would be suicide.

The zonal thing here isn't an issue as most zones here generally have more than one club thats satifactory. So i guess it'll depend how flexible the zones are.

As I understand it, several clubs have decided not to enter because:
(a) there are numerous points included that they don't believe are of benefit to the game
(b) there are numerous points included that they don't believe are of benefit to their club
(c) the FFV have offered no hope to them that they are open to discussion on these points
(d) going any further in the process will cost the clubs money in preparation costs

You could suggest that the clubs are admitting defeat - or alternatively you could ask what you yourself would do if you put in the same position.

Imagine if you had a job - and the boss told you that you could pay to submit an application for a new job - that would probably pay less and most likely have worse working conditions, and that the terms of the new job were non-negotiable... Would you apply?

Edited by Benjamin: 12/6/2013 05:12:45 PM

They deride a cap on registrations, then later complain that the cap is too high and will price out juniors.

And are they really willing to sit out over seemingly minor issues like and

Certainly there are some major issues that need to be addressed, but for all of these clubs to not apply seems rather backwards to me. To choose not to apply because their ground may be not up to scratch, or not have full use of it seems like they have admitted failure and are not keen to resolve the issues, instead would rather pass the blame onto the FFV.

Why single out SMFC - one of the few teams that has committed to the NPL?

Jesus Christ. These clubs are the reason this game is even here.

If they do not want to join fine.If they want to start a breakaway league do it. Why not just do it and shut up about it. When they were locked out of the A league many of their supporters bagged the league and said they could not do with out them 8 years on and everything is going ok. If SMH FC does not want to join the NPL dont. It will go on with out them.Maybe the two groups are incompatible and should just go about their business independently.](*,) ](*,) ](*,)

Edited by krones3: 12/6/2013 04:30:43 AM

Moved to State League because no follower of the game in Australia would actually want to know about elite player development pathways. ;)

Yeah sorry thought I did put it in SL's

yes please