http://walterpless.com.au/2013/october/sydney-united-collect-inaugural-nps-trophy-by-beating-south-hobart.html


This is a good link covering the game from the illustrious football journo/Photographer, Walter Pless.

The weather was atrocious!

Sounds like the boys did enough to win without getting out of 2nd gear. That's going by a few reports as well as what I've heard from our boys who travelled down

Having said that, SH showed they weren't pushovers so credit to them.

SC are a very disappointing team for a supposed winner of the NSW state league.

If that is the best quality available at state league level, semi-professionals playing amateurs, the Tassie V League is far too close in standard to the NSW state league than it should be. Technically, Sydney C should have been a lot better. They won the game because of physical strength and athletic ability rather than technical ability.

One HAL coach said privately it is of great concern that so few state league players can make the jump to the standard of the HAL. This is the reason the FFA NC is needed so much.

Credit to Sydney Croatia for winning.=d>

You're judging the quality of an entire league on 90 minutes of football?

The main difference between the leagues is that our top 3 were only seperated by 2 points.... any of those 3 sides would most likely have won the NPL this year.

Think we've had the discussion about State League players making the jump up. It's never easy to make the jump from part-time football to full-time professional football. Many players who may have been capable of making the step up have never been interested as they'd basically be taking a huge paycut.

Plenty of A-League players have struggled to make the step down to the State Leagues as well

The important question is where can I buy a South Hobart kit?

there are heaps of NSWPL players capable of stepping up to the A-League standard....and the coach who said there isn't is doing australian football no favours.....the main difference is the part time vs full time element....the other factor is our coaches can't see a footballer in front of them if their life depended on it and quite often rely on scouts who watch one game and look for stand out players in that 90 minute period and that's it.......young players are inconsistent and when a player finally matues into a good footballer the consistency is the very first element that is achieved, proving the point that full time training is the key to improving players.....train on sessions is by far a better way of identifying players, not just games....

Exactly, plenty of players with the technical ability to make the step up. Trifiro would put plenty of current A-League players to shame.

But making the adjustment from part-time football to full-time isn't easy for some.

Trifiro impressed some local stakeholders with a decent background in the game.

Even in 90 minutes there should be a chasm of difference in standard, given population ands financial differences.

Already the Tassie V League has pushed the standard up considerably compared to the old regional leagues. Many of the V League coaches have incorporated a lot of coaching methodology from the FFA NC too, with all having undergone recent Advanced Coach education.

Rudan appears to be very knowledgeable from his TV appearances.

New Zealand (with a squad compromised largely of Wellington Phoenix players) drew 1-1 with Italy at the last World Cup. Going by your logic, it's safe to assume that NZ football isn't too far behind Italian football.

That's the beauty of football. Lesser sides can cause upsets in one-off matches, bigger sides can choke, the better side doesnt always win and big sides don't always show off their dominance with big scorelines.

You see it often in the FA Cup with League 1/2 sides pulling off upsets against Premier League opposition. However, if you had them in the Premier League they'd probably finish at the bottom of the league with 10 points after 38 matches.

The quality of a league isn't judged by its best team anyway. It should always be judged on its depth. So while South Hobart might be capable of getting respectable scores against the 4th best South Australian team and the best NSW team, I'd like to see how some of the other sides would go up against teams their VPL/NSWPL equivalent

No.

Wrong logical process. If one analyses patterns of play in those two games, Italy were a far better side than NZ. The Kiwis played a Reactive style of football , hoping the opposition made a mistake. They did and Schmeltz scored. There was a chasm of difference in terms of quality.

South Hobart were far more competitive against Sydney, than NZ were against Italy. This can be measured in terms of South's Proactivity and possession in various areas of the pitch. It can also be evaluated in a technical analysis in terms of individuals; 1v1 attacking and defensive play, running with the ball, striking the ball and first touch. There was also not an apparent difference in game sense, when there should've been. The minute difference between the the two Australian teams is cause for concern.

Han Berger, Zelco Kalaz and Kevin Muscat have all complimented the standard of the Tassie V League, with Berger being mocked by cynics for it.

The question can be asked, what is going wrong with the coaching structure in the NSW state league, to have their best team of semi-prpfessionals in a state of 10 million or so, playing in a pedestrian manner, against a team of amateurs from a state of 500 000?

I know nearly all the V League senior coaches. By and large they are following the FFA NC. Are many of the NSW state league coaches still pursuing the ad hoc approach of the past?

The Tassie state team, which comprised many South Hobart players, were completely outclassed by Victory Youth a few weeks ago. The difference in technical skill, handling speed and game sense, was vast. The Victory Youth team are coached by Darren Davies, a massive advocate of the FFA NC.

South Hobart seniors have been beaten this year in the V League by a club I have a coaching role with. They are not the dominating force one might expect.








Edited by Decentric: 14/10/2013 12:35:11 PM

Are you really going to try turn this into an argument about the NC and 'old football'

That old ad hoc approach that you're referring to produced some of the best footballers this country has seen. My club doesn't need to justify its methods to anybody, let alone someone from a state that has contributed 3/5ths of f**k all to the game in this country.

Ask Zeljko (please take note of correct spelling) what he thinks about United and our youth development next time he's down there.

If you look through my posts you'll see that I never claimed that the Tasmanian league is poor or of a low standard. I just said that making sweeping judgements on 90 minutes of football is stupid.

So we played in a pedestrian manner and still comfortably beat the best Tasmania had to offer? Sounds to me like the quality gap is quite significant if one side can cruise through 90 minutes and still win 2-0.

Aussie players in the past, and the current ones about 25-30, produced by the old system, are not that good. Because we are told they are good by our media, doesn't equate to recognition in other countries.

The football Sydney played was pedestrian and unfit for a supposed champion team from NSW. Tasmania expected a lot better from them and the South Aussie champions. We know we are the supposed backwater. We are doing something about it, but NSW is slightly less of a backwater too.

Your club needs to improve its coaching from juniors upwards. Melb Victory youth are the benchmark.

Rudan seems to be a knowledgeable coach as a senior coach. I expect he will be in the HAL soon.

went to the previous sydney game was also suitably unimpressed with the talent on show, one decent carthorse in number 7 , they play awfully slow and were unfit, a number of players cramping up after 70 mins. the npl made the a league look like uefa champions league.

The South Australian 'Champions' finished 16 points off the pace in the league. So I wouldnt have expected too much from them

Viduka - not that good?
Zelic - not that good?
Okon - not that good?
Bresciano - not that good? Funny that he still looks to be the best player technically even in the current squad
Skoko - not that good?

These players weren't just good according to our media. They were good according to their foreign peers, foreign coaches and foreign media alike. Dont diminish the qualities of some of Australia's greatest players to suit your own agenda

As for my club, I have no concerns with our coaching our youth dev. Every year we see a couple of our youth players get picked up by A-League clubs. We've seen a few go directly overseas and bypass the NYL/A-League. I'm satisfied with what we're doing as a club. How the hell you can sit 1000km away and tell me that my club needs to improve its coaching is beyond me. How much do you know about my club apart from the 90 minutes you saw on the weekend?

As I said, according to you we were unfit, pedestrian and pretty average. Yet we still comfortably took it out 2-0 and could have easily had another 1 or 2 going by reports.

I have no doubt that we were average. We were average two weeks ago against Canberra and poor against Brisbane too.

They still beat everyone else in the Cup.


Other posters have seen Sydney United and have been underwhelmed too. You guys only beat the ACT champions 2-1. Honestly, every p footba stakeholder inthe ACT woul expect you to beat them and us 5-0.

If you are happy to be win an Aussie championship against amateur dies, then good luck to you.

No wonder HAL coaches despair at the quality from state leagues. In a few years the ACT and Tassie will beat NSW state league club teams at this rate.

A VPL team came down here a few years ago, Heidelberg, in 2008. They would have beaten Sydney United 6-0 on four games out of five. They were a class act.=d>

Bresc is the best of them. I don't think he was produced by Sydney United though.

The other four were mediocre in BPO. A team needs ball winners, and good readers of the game to retain possession from BPO to BP.

When Australia had Skoko and Okon in central midfield, Australia was always vulnerable in the Defensive Transitions.

Other than Bresc, who has great stamina, the other guys were excellent players with the ball at their feet, but a ball has to get there. Their defensive capabilities were mediocre, albeit being easier to coach.

Consistently a pedestrian team.

And, who are you to evaluate Sydney United's youth development?

On what criteria do you evaluate it? Providing players who can beat Canberra and Tassie club teams?

With a massive feeder base, you should be developing a lot more, higher quality players than the ones we saw yesterday.

Glad that you are satisfied to struggle past amateur clubs from the ACT and Tassie. I wouldn't be satisfied if I were the club's TD.](*,)

So which part of our coaching setup do you think needs improving?

Is it the UEFA-A Licensed TD?
The AFC-B licensed U18s coach?
The AFC-C licensed 16s coach?
The UEFA and AFC B licensed 15s coach?

On what criteria? The only criteria that matters - results! Our youth regularly get picked up by WSW/SFC/CCM/NJ NYL sides. We're obviously doing something right.

Our "massive feeder base" is split amongst 2 other large clubs all within walking distance. You might have heard of one of them before - Marconi. The other is Bonnyrigg. While we have a large base to work with, we're competing with some huge clubs for this talent.

Meh, I'll take your word for it. We're rubbish, Tasmanian football is on the rise and SH were very unlucky not to beat a pedestrian and unfit United side.

If you are serious , I'll talk to my neighbour who is on the committee.:)

Edited by Decentric: 15/10/2013 11:11:22 PM

You've made some good points there, particularly about the inconsistency of young players.

It is getting to those train on sessions that is the important part.

The HAL coach wants players to be better at state league level.

As I've previously said, I've seen a Heidelberg team from the VPL, that was far more impressive than Sydney Croatia yesterday. Heidelberg played in a friendly too, so there was little incentive to perform. Maybe the VPL is decidedly better than the the NSWPL?

Judging leagues on a few games :lol:

You fool....

it's very simple...:d ...the tasmanians have the advantage of playing with their relatives......;)

another problem is the A-League coaches and staff do not want to take risks, they are all guilty of lack of development and vision.....

totally agree

I think that's changing which is why we're seeing more young guys in the HAL than before.

well that ain't doing such a crash hot job of identifying the better NSWPL players who can step up....

Speaking for Sydney, I think the following are ex-NSWPL:

Janjetovic, Necevski, Powell, Gligor, Jurman, Warren, Mallia, Chianese, Triantis, Petkovski, Urosevski and Dotti that I can think of.

And in previous years Sherlock and Cole came from Olympic.

That's not bad IMO.

Don't forget a few will get a start in NSWPL youth sides and then get picked up by the NYL team.

If you're saying that we're not identifying 24-25 year olds playing NSWPL and bringing them into the HAL that's a different matter. Not being someone who watches a great deal of NSWPL I can't comment on their standard.

Either way, you can't compare where we're at with 6-7 years ago when there were nowhere near as many young boys being brought through from NSWPL and into HAL.

What "Cup"? Campbelltown got lucky in three games- two of them by penalty shootouts! A 27 game league season was the real test of consistency in SA.

You just can't let it go, can you?