Melbourne Cup 2013


Melbourne Cup 2013

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99 Problems
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Give your tips, talk about how much you like/hate/don't give a fuck about the race. Pretty much just a way of stopping every dickhead claiming they backed the winner tonight.

Personally tipping Sea Moon, but this is the most ridiculous cup I've seen
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Yeah, like I mentioned in WGMG, don't give a hoot either way. Maybe this year more so 'cos I'm at uni (procrastinating over an assignment :-"). I might wander up to the Pub up the road if I can be bothered around 2pm. :lol:

WOLLONGONG WOLVES FOR A-LEAGUE EXPANSION!

11/11/2011
11/11/2011
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Could be anyone's this year! I just love my day off work! :D
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I propose this thread become the Official Horse Racing Thread (for those savvy punters), and be renamed 'The Sarah Jessica Parker' thread.




WOLLONGONG WOLVES FOR A-LEAGUE EXPANSION!

afromanGT
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Who cares about the Melbourne Cup? It's Monday Night Football: Bears @ Packers.
pv4
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Have a mate who is putting close to his life savings on Verema, he's that confident in it. He's on facebook most days with tips, so he's a definite race enthusiast. Will be interesting if it comes off for him!
paulbagzFC
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Eh haven't bothered looking @ form guides etc, did a random Trifecta on 1,6, 14.

Come @ me.

-PB

https://i.imgur.com/batge7K.jpg

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My trifecta tip:

3. Red Cadeaux
4. Sea Moon
6. Fiorente
f1worldchamp
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About as interesting as watching paint dry, though it is funny to see people who don't give a hoot about horse racing all year suddenly become experts.
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Just put two bets on.

$10 each way on Verema (21)

$10 mystery trifecta of Fiorente (6), Voleuse De Coeurs (17) & Hawkspur (18)
pv4
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Mister Football wrote:
My trifecta tip:

3. Red Cadeaux
4. Sea Moon
6. Fiorente


Close!!
Scoll
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My first and second choice food outlets for lunch closing down for the day due to the race took me from not caring about the Melbourne Cup to actively disliking it. Tear it down, burn it all, get back to work you chumps.
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pv4 wrote:
Mister Football wrote:
My trifecta tip:

3. Red Cadeaux
4. Sea Moon
6. Fiorente


Close!!


ha ha, missed the trifecta, but got the quinella for a very handy pay out

stay tuned for my tips this time next year

I only bet once per annum (and do ok 2 out of 3 years)
sydneycroatia58
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pv4 wrote:
Have a mate who is putting close to his life savings on Verema, he's that confident in it. He's on facebook most days with tips, so he's a definite race enthusiast. Will be interesting if it comes off for him!


Ouch
f1worldchamp
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sydneycroatia58 wrote:
pv4 wrote:
Have a mate who is putting close to his life savings on Verema, he's that confident in it. He's on facebook most days with tips, so he's a definite race enthusiast. Will be interesting if it comes off for him!


Ouch

He doesn't say how much his life savings was!
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sydneycroatia58 wrote:
pv4 wrote:
Have a mate who is putting close to his life savings on Verema, he's that confident in it. He's on facebook most days with tips, so he's a definite race enthusiast. Will be interesting if it comes off for him!


Ouch

Think I just read a tweet that the horse was put down.
pv4
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f1worldchamp wrote:
sydneycroatia58 wrote:
pv4 wrote:
Have a mate who is putting close to his life savings on Verema, he's that confident in it. He's on facebook most days with tips, so he's a definite race enthusiast. Will be interesting if it comes off for him!


Ouch

He doesn't say how much his life savings was!


:lol: he's not happy
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pv4 wrote:
f1worldchamp wrote:
sydneycroatia58 wrote:
pv4 wrote:
Have a mate who is putting close to his life savings on Verema, he's that confident in it. He's on facebook most days with tips, so he's a definite race enthusiast. Will be interesting if it comes off for him!


Ouch

He doesn't say how much his life savings was!


:lol: he's not happy

:lol:
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Had a trifecta of Fiorente, Dandino and Fawkner at $20, shattered when i found the latter 2 finished 5th and 6th :x
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Had Fiorente, but not enough to cover the rest of my bets. A dollar down at the end of the day.
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Roar_Brisbane wrote:
sydneycroatia58 wrote:
pv4 wrote:
Have a mate who is putting close to his life savings on Verema, he's that confident in it. He's on facebook most days with tips, so he's a definite race enthusiast. Will be interesting if it comes off for him!


Ouch

Think I just read a tweet that the horse was put down.


yeah my mate wrote on fb that he wasn't happy the horse broke down. I didn't know that meant he literally got injured or whatever

afromanGT
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pv4 wrote:
Roar_Brisbane wrote:
sydneycroatia58 wrote:
pv4 wrote:
Have a mate who is putting close to his life savings on Verema, he's that confident in it. He's on facebook most days with tips, so he's a definite race enthusiast. Will be interesting if it comes off for him!


Ouch

Think I just read a tweet that the horse was put down.


yeah my mate wrote on fb that he wasn't happy the horse broke down. I didn't know that meant he literally got injured or whatever

Have they tried calling Triple A?
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Nothing like a horse race to show how ignorant people treat animals and the concept of life in general

If anyone "doesnt want to know about this", go check out episode 1 in David Milch's (creator of Deadwood) Luck, there is a scene in the first episode where one of the horses breaks its leg in the race, and gets euthanised

Then tell me what you feel about a horse getting put down!
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Is it cruelty though? They'd suffer a lot with only 3 legs. Putting them out of their misery seems reasonable to me
pv4
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RedKat wrote:
pv4 wrote:
Is it cruelty though? They'd suffer a lot with only 3 legs. Putting them out of their misery seems reasonable to me


Its cruelty that the horse has been pushed so far out of its limits that its been put in a situation where having it put down is the nicest thing to do


What are your thoughts on them being bred for purpose?
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This is only a blog, but a small amount of research has gone into it. It is worth reading, especially the bit about the prevalence of exercise-induced pulmonary bleeding in horses.

"Dilettantiquity" wrote:

[size=8]Wastage, Bleeders, and Murky Data in the Horse Racing Industry[/size]



Hey Australia, it’s Melbourne Cup Day.

It turns out that it’s actually quite hard to find well-researched information on issues of animal welfare in the racing industry. All credit to organisations who lobby against cruelty in the industry, but their sites aren’t always the best of source of resources, and at times show a misunderstanding of the underlying statistics.

Given it’s Cup Day, I’ve put together an overview of some of the studies I’ve encountered during a quick skim of the literature. Bear in mind that I haven’t looked in detail into the authors, nor methodologies used in the studies, so cite with caution. The two issues that immediately arose when I ran a search were ‘wastage’ (the commercial term for horses lost to the racing industry) and ‘bleeders’ (horses suffering from exercise-induced pulmonary hemorrhage or ‘EIPH’).

One of the most concerning aspects in my opinion is how just murky and under-scrutinised this whole industry appears to be in this respect – pinning down solid, credible data is no simple task, even where suspicions have been raised that the industry may be the horsey equivalent of a puppy mill. For example, there’s very little information relating to the origin of horses sent to abattoirs. This in in part due to an glaring absence of record keeping, the complication of abattoirs frequently procuring horses via auctions rather than directly from from racing stables, and the fact that some of the relevant data (where it exists) is considered to be commercial in confidence.

An estimated 80 per cent of those horses that actually end up on the racetrack suffer EIPH – these horses are known in the industry as ‘bleeders’. (Hinchcliff, K.W., et al., Association between exercise-induced pulmonary hemorrhage and performance in Thoroughbred racehorses. Journal of the American Veterinary Medical Association, 2005. 227: p. 768-774.) This is quite an interesting one statistically, as horses can either bleed from the windpipe or in the deeper lung area, with some commentary noting the former applies to ‘around half’ of all racehorses, and the latter up to 90 per cent. Wikipedia references studies stating the proportion of racehorses suffering EIPH at some point in their career falls between 40 per cent and 70 per cent. I’m not clear on the number of non-racing horses who suffer from exercise-induced pulmonary hemorrhage, although some of the literature implies it is significantly lower.

It’s been estimated “pregnancy in 1000 Thoroughbred Australian mares produces only 300 horses which will actually race”. (Bourke JM (1995) Wastage in Thoroughbreds. In ‘Proceedings from the Annual Seminar, Equine Branch, NZVA’. Auckland pp. 107-119. Veterinary Continuing Education, Massey University) Where do they go? One of the more nteresting and recent studies in this area – greatly impaired as it was by lack of industry data – is detailed in a 2008 paper published in the Equine Veterinary Journal. Here’s an extract of the relevant section:

[size=3]An assessment was also made on the possibility of collecting further data within the abattoir setting. In this study data was collected over three collection dates from 340 horses processed at an Australian abattoir. This occurred between November 2007 and January 2008. The data showed that 59.8% of the horses had a dental age of 7 years with the remainder (40.2%) being > 7 years. Observations of the types of brands present indicated that 52.9% of the horses processed had originated from the racing industry with 40.0% of the sample group carrying a Thoroughbred brand and 12.9% carrying a Standardbred brand. The remainder of the group (47.1%) had no visible brand.

Wastage or horse loss (Jeffcott, 1990; Bailey, 1998) occurs at all stages of the horse’s life, including prior to racing, and it is estimated that pregnancy in 1000 Thoroughbred Australian mares produces only 300 horses which will actually race (Bourke, 1995). Similar pre-racing wastage has been found in Standardbred horses (trotters and pacers). A survey conducted on the 1990 crop of Western Australian Standardbred foals (Dyer, 1998) reported that 29% of foals were unregistered while approximately 26% were registered but never raced. Of the unregistered foals, 25% died or were destroyed and in 13% of cases, the cause of death was deliberate destruction. Of the registered, unraced horses 15% died and deliberate destruction was the cause of death in 12% of cases.

Bourke (1995) has also estimated that approximately 33% of the Thoroughbred population of Victoria may be lost to wastage each year however, these wastage figures include all areas in which horses are lost to the racing industry (e.g. reproductive failure, death of foals, various training and racing injuries and those relinquished for slaughter: Bailey, 1998). Interestingly, a more recent survey of racehorse trainers in the 2002/2003 race year reported similar figures. Hayek et al. (2005) found that the total wastage rate for horses in training or racing was 39% for Thoroughbreds and 38% for Standardbreds. Of the 39% of Thoroughbreds which left a racing stable only 6% were reported to have been sent to a knackery while 17% of Standardbred horses were reported to have been sent to the same destination. However, as the authors noted these figures do not include horses which were sent to a slaughter plant via a more indirect route, that is being sent to auction and purchased by an agent buying horses for slaughter, so the exact number of Thoroughbreds and Standardbreds in the study group which were ultimately slaughtered remains unknown.”

Doughty, A., Cross, N., Robbins, A. and Phillips, C.J.C. 2009. The origin, dentition and foot condition of slaughtered horses in Australia. Equine Veterinary Journal 41, 808-811.
[/size]

Additionally, some of the literature suggests that horses who are unsuccessful on the racecourse may transition into the more harmful sport jump racing – a spectacle banned in New South Wales, and recommended to be phased out elsewhere by an Australian Parliamentary Inquiry. Clearly, in addition to wastage and health issues, not to mention the subjects of gambling and whipping, there’s also a whole discussion to be had about the ethics of meat production versus the breeding of animals for an entertainment industry and so forth. But, given they’re currently running a Race That Stops A Nation, that’s one for another day.

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are horses being denied the opportunity to lead more fulfilling lives?
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Today was the first time I bet money on a sporting event.


My money was on Verema...
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StreetzFC wrote:
Today was the first time I bet money on a sporting event.


My money was on Verema...

Only up from here. ;)
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RedKat wrote:
pv4 wrote:
Is it cruelty though? They'd suffer a lot with only 3 legs. Putting them out of their misery seems reasonable to me


Its cruelty that the horse has been pushed so far out of its limits that its been put in a situation where having it put down is the nicest thing to do

Clearly it's not "out of its limits" if other horses have demonstrated it to be achievable. Not to mention that there were multiple qualification events it had to make it through in order to compete which it clearly survived.

It sucks, but it's a fact of the "Sport". They can spend literally hundreds of thousands of dollars rehabilitating the horse for it to never race again, or they can just put it out of its misery.
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