FFA charge Fury $22,000 for referees. Six game tournament in doubt


FFA charge Fury $22,000 for referees. Six game tournament in doubt

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paladisious
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The Australian wrote:
Football Federation’s demand on referee costs puts event in doubt
JULY 30, 2014 12:00AM
Ray Gatt

FOOTBALL fans in north Queensland could again be left high and dry by Football Federation Australia following revelations that a pre-season tournament involving three A-League clubs could be cancelled over demands that organisers pay $22,000 for the cost of referees.

It is a situation that could also play havoc with the pre-season preparations of A-League clubs Sydney FC, Newcastle Jets and defending champions Brisbane Roar who are due to compete in the tournament set down for the end of next month.

Northern Fury were left stunned when told by the head body on July 11 that they could not use Queensland referees from the state competition and would instead have to cover the full costs, including airfares and accommodation, for providing A-League-standard match officials.

Fury are conducting the tournament, which involves three double headers to be played in Townsville on August 24, 27 and 30.

However, while Fury says it is willing to meet some of the costs of the referees, it cannot afford to fund the total and believes FFA should, as a goodwill gesture, cover any shortfall.

“The game is just starting to get back on its feet here after what happened a few years ago with North Queensland Fury,” a spokesperson said. “There are now more juniors playing football in the region than rugby league . . . that’s how far we have advanced.

“The club has put a lot of time and effort into organising this tournament and we see it as a great way to continue the development of the code here.

“But asking $22,000 for referees is way over the top.

“Our original intention was to use NPL referees as a development opportunity which they were thrilled about. When they said we had to use A-League referees, we proposed a compromise of FFA paying for flights and accommodation and we would pay match fees.”

North Queensland Fury played two seasons (2009-10 and 2010-11) in the A-League before FFA axed them. The local community was livid with the decision and the fallout hurt the game in the region.

However, under chairman Rabieh Krayem, who was involved with Fury at the time of their demise, they reformed as Northern Fury in 2012 and now play in the NPL in Queensland. The club aims to get back into the A-League within five years.

FFA said Fury were always aware of the need to have A-League referees officiating.

“The host club/organisation of every FFA-sanctioned match bears the cost of match officials, whether it is a match between an A-League club and a National Premier League (NPL) club or pre-season tournaments,” a spokesman said. FFA’s policies state matches involving A-League clubs must be controlled by match officials on the A-League or National Youth League panels.

“In this instance there are no referees in Townsville on the above referee panels, something the organisers are aware of.”

Sydney FC chief executive Tony Pignata said it would be a “huge disappointment” if the tournament was called off and would seriously affect the club’s preparations for the new season.

“We have it programmed . . . three quality games. To change it now would have a big impact,’’ Pignata said.

“I’d hate to see something like this jeopardise the tournament.”


Edited by paladisious: 30/7/2014 06:06:29 AM
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It is shit like this that shits me. its shit. those shits in head office need to stop this shit where they charge shit fees for basic shit. the shits have been learning from shit hole ticket companies obvious as shit. Little shit fee here, little shit fee there, oh and did we mention we will also charge a shit 2.5% on all shit transactions? shit.
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Ignoring if it is even reasonable to bring in interstate referees at all, how do 12 domestic flights, hotels for a party of six for six nights and 18 match fees add up to $22,000?

That if anything sheds light on a more endemic problem with the FFA; always taking the Rolls Royce option in cases where the Datsun will do just fine.

Edited by paladisious: 30/7/2014 06:17:25 AM
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paladisious wrote:
Ignoring if it is even reasonable to bring in interstate referees at all, how do 12 domestic flights, hotels for a party of six for six nights and 18 match fees add up to $22,000?

That if anything sheds light on a more endemic problem with the FFA; always taking the Rolls Royce option in cases where the Datsun will do just fine.

Edited by paladisious: 30/7/2014 06:17:25 AM


Exactly what I was thinking. Flights to Townsville and accom are NOT that expensive - I did it 2 months ago! Stayed in a great hotel. The whole weekend cost me $300.
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Vintage FFA.

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Just another opportunity for FFA to stop the children in this region from experience quality football. And the young Fury players to show what they can do and how hard they have to work.


Its not as if you do anything for the kids up here anyway.FFA

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Bowden wrote:
paladisious wrote:
Ignoring if it is even reasonable to bring in interstate referees at all, how do 12 domestic flights, hotels for a party of six for six nights and 18 match fees add up to $22,000?

That if anything sheds light on a more endemic problem with the FFA; always taking the Rolls Royce option in cases where the Datsun will do just fine.

Edited by paladisious: 30/7/2014 06:17:25 AM


Exactly what I was thinking. Flights to Townsville and accom are NOT that expensive - I did it 2 months ago! Stayed in a great hotel. The whole weekend cost me $300.


I travel to Townsville frequently and never had a deal like that. It's not to say those bargains are not there but I'm sure like me, FFA don't stay up waiting for happy hours or gamble on specials coming up.

As a rough estimate return flight costs depends where it starts and which airline subject to timing and at $350 return average x 6 = $2,100

Insurance for 6 say $100 each = $600

Accommodation 36 nights at $150 average / night = $5,000

That leaves $14,300 divided by 18 match fees = $794 each on average which is what can be expected. Refs will get more, assistance refs less. This is not counting if a 4th official is included or does it include misc expenses. The fee makes sense.

We constantly criticize the FFA for not having professional refs and here is an opportunity to give the A-League officials more match exposure under different conditions and we still whinge.

Having said that, rather than have Fury footing the entire bill why not split it 50/50 between Fury being the organizers and main beneficiaries and the other 50% half shared by the 3 A-League clubs and half the FFA?



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paulc wrote:
Bowden wrote:
paladisious wrote:
Ignoring if it is even reasonable to bring in interstate referees at all, how do 12 domestic flights, hotels for a party of six for six nights and 18 match fees add up to $22,000?

That if anything sheds light on a more endemic problem with the FFA; always taking the Rolls Royce option in cases where the Datsun will do just fine.

Edited by paladisious: 30/7/2014 06:17:25 AM


Exactly what I was thinking. Flights to Townsville and accom are NOT that expensive - I did it 2 months ago! Stayed in a great hotel. The whole weekend cost me $300.


I travel to Townsville frequently and never had a deal like that. It's not to say those bargains are not there but I'm sure like me, FFA don't stay up waiting for happy hours or gamble on specials coming up.

As a rough estimate return flight costs depends where it starts and which airline subject to timing and at $350 return average x 6 = $2,100

Insurance for 6 say $100 each = $600

Accommodation 36 nights at $150 average / night = $5,000

That leaves $14,300 divided by 18 match fees = $794 each on average which is what can be expected. Refs will get more, assistance refs less. This is not counting if a 4th official is included or does it include misc expenses. The fee makes sense.

We constantly criticize the FFA for not having professional refs and here is an opportunity to give the A-League officials more match exposure under different conditions and we still whinge.

Having said that, rather than have Fury footing the entire bill why not split it 50/50 between Fury being the organizers and main beneficiaries and the other 50% half shared by the 3 A-League clubs and half the FFA?


I have done a bit of business travel organising before and it does all add up. It is always a lot more expensive than if you are organising a holiday or something for yourself or family.

Just take flights for example, when I used to do this I would have to book flexible flight tickets which are very expensive in most cases compared to the sale tickets.

There are also incidental expenses that would have to be factored in as I am sure these officials would get some kind of per diem.

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After the Socceroos WC qualifying game v Iraq I spoke to an up-and-coming HAL referee and I was a little bit under the influence but I'm sure he told me he got $600 (that's the figure I vaguely remember) to line a HAL game, but the refs got at least double that and also it depended on the experience of each ref. Just thought I'd add that bit of info when thinking about adding up costs.
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Yep, $22k does not sound extravagant to me. It's clear that it is Fury that has fcked up here. They should've known the rules, and done their research. Not cry about it now.
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The Russians will pay for it.
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Get a fill-in from the sideline?


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Why pay 22 grand for shit refs when we can just get local shit refs for 0 cost?

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paulbagzFC wrote:
Why pay 22 grand for shit refs when we can just get local shit refs for 0 cost?


Maybe you kinda answered your own question.

Not going to help improve them by not providing them with such opportunities, better "career path" etc etc..
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Do local guys do the NPL games up there?

For reference, in the FFA Cup game last night, Magic v Strikers, all four refs were Northern NSW refs. But all have had some experience either reffing or lining HAL games, but still do local NPL games too.
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22K is high, but that's the set price! Blaming the FFA on this one is a tad overzealous here.

The Fury knew that had to appoint FFA refs. it wasn't something that was just thrown at them in the last minute, they just pressed ahead thinking if they just go with it then the FFA won't say anything.

Due diligence was needed when this tournament was organised. You work out the costs and see if it is a feasible thing to run. obviously it wasn't yet they still plugged away with it and now we had this shit fight.


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pv4 wrote:
After the Socceroos WC qualifying game v Iraq I spoke to an up-and-coming HAL referee and I was a little bit under the influence but I'm sure he told me he got $600 (that's the figure I vaguely remember) to line a HAL game, but the refs got at least double that and also it depended on the experience of each ref. Just thought I'd add that bit of info when thinking about adding up costs.


Yeah, from memory it was about $1,000 for the middle, 50% of that for the ARs and 4th.

By comparison, an NPL WA middle pockets $175 for the middle, $87.50 for the line, for a first team match.

Edited by Nate: 30/7/2014 12:22:50 PM
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Nate wrote:
pv4 wrote:
After the Socceroos WC qualifying game v Iraq I spoke to an up-and-coming HAL referee and I was a little bit under the influence but I'm sure he told me he got $600 (that's the figure I vaguely remember) to line a HAL game, but the refs got at least double that and also it depended on the experience of each ref. Just thought I'd add that bit of info when thinking about adding up costs.


Yeah, from memory it was about $1,0000 for the middle, 50% of that for the ARs and 4th.

By comparison, an NPL WA middle pockets $175 for the middle, $87.50 for the line, for a first team match.


I didn't realize it was that much for the refs. It isn't bad as a side job on the Weekend.
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Roar #1 wrote:
Nate wrote:
pv4 wrote:
After the Socceroos WC qualifying game v Iraq I spoke to an up-and-coming HAL referee and I was a little bit under the influence but I'm sure he told me he got $600 (that's the figure I vaguely remember) to line a HAL game, but the refs got at least double that and also it depended on the experience of each ref. Just thought I'd add that bit of info when thinking about adding up costs.


Yeah, from memory it was about $1,0000 for the middle, 50% of that for the ARs and 4th.

By comparison, an NPL WA middle pockets $175 for the middle, $87.50 for the line, for a first team match.


I didn't realize it was that much for the refs. It isn't bad as a side job on the Weekend.


Probably not so great all things considered, once the ATO has taken its cut (I'm assuming the figures are pre-tax).
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Brisbane Ro wrote:
Roar #1 wrote:
Nate wrote:
pv4 wrote:
After the Socceroos WC qualifying game v Iraq I spoke to an up-and-coming HAL referee and I was a little bit under the influence but I'm sure he told me he got $600 (that's the figure I vaguely remember) to line a HAL game, but the refs got at least double that and also it depended on the experience of each ref. Just thought I'd add that bit of info when thinking about adding up costs.


Yeah, from memory it was about $1,0000 for the middle, 50% of that for the ARs and 4th.

By comparison, an NPL WA middle pockets $175 for the middle, $87.50 for the line, for a first team match.


I didn't realize it was that much for the refs. It isn't bad as a side job on the Weekend.


Probably not so great all things considered, once the ATO has taken its cut (I'm assuming the figures are pre-tax).


The guy I talked to at the Socceroos game said take-home.
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pv4 wrote:
Brisbane Ro wrote:
Roar #1 wrote:
Nate wrote:
pv4 wrote:
After the Socceroos WC qualifying game v Iraq I spoke to an up-and-coming HAL referee and I was a little bit under the influence but I'm sure he told me he got $600 (that's the figure I vaguely remember) to line a HAL game, but the refs got at least double that and also it depended on the experience of each ref. Just thought I'd add that bit of info when thinking about adding up costs.


Yeah, from memory it was about $1,0000 for the middle, 50% of that for the ARs and 4th.

By comparison, an NPL WA middle pockets $175 for the middle, $87.50 for the line, for a first team match.


I didn't realize it was that much for the refs. It isn't bad as a side job on the Weekend.


Probably not so great all things considered, once the ATO has taken its cut (I'm assuming the figures are pre-tax).


The guy I talked to at the Socceroos game said take-home.


Fair enough, thanks.
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Roar #1 wrote:
Nate wrote:
pv4 wrote:
After the Socceroos WC qualifying game v Iraq I spoke to an up-and-coming HAL referee and I was a little bit under the influence but I'm sure he told me he got $600 (that's the figure I vaguely remember) to line a HAL game, but the refs got at least double that and also it depended on the experience of each ref. Just thought I'd add that bit of info when thinking about adding up costs.


Yeah, from memory it was about $1,0000 for the middle, 50% of that for the ARs and 4th.

By comparison, an NPL WA middle pockets $175 for the middle, $87.50 for the line, for a first team match.


I didn't realize it was that much for the refs. It isn't bad as a side job on the Weekend.


In most state leagues the standards to get to that sort of panel is quite high, they really push the physical fitness, so you have to put in a lot to get that much out.

Juniors was okay money for refereeing as you would normally do two to three games in a day because they are just that swamped by billets for referees with so few referees to do the work. Starts at $34 for 12s to $62 for 17s.

I don't know how that pay stacks up against other states or other codes apart from Australian-rules in WA (which pays umpires rather a bit more).
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Brisbane Ro wrote:
paulbagzFC wrote:
Why pay 22 grand for shit refs when we can just get local shit refs for 0 cost?


Maybe you kinda answered your own question.

Not going to help improve them by not providing them with such opportunities, better "career path" etc etc..


that is the reason that fury wanted to use local refs. to give them better experience.

 




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Multiply what they get per game by the total games per year and you'll get the picture it's not a lot for someone to officiate a professional game in a professional league.

The more games they get, the better. Professionals or not.

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pv4 wrote:
Brisbane Ro wrote:
Roar #1 wrote:
Nate wrote:
pv4 wrote:
After the Socceroos WC qualifying game v Iraq I spoke to an up-and-coming HAL referee and I was a little bit under the influence but I'm sure he told me he got $600 (that's the figure I vaguely remember) to line a HAL game, but the refs got at least double that and also it depended on the experience of each ref. Just thought I'd add that bit of info when thinking about adding up costs.


Yeah, from memory it was about $1,0000 for the middle, 50% of that for the ARs and 4th.

By comparison, an NPL WA middle pockets $175 for the middle, $87.50 for the line, for a first team match.


I didn't realize it was that much for the refs. It isn't bad as a side job on the Weekend.


Probably not so great all things considered, once the ATO has taken its cut (I'm assuming the figures are pre-tax).


The guy I talked to at the Socceroos game said take-home.


Obviously only local stuff. But when I did some refereeing for a season a few years back all money was cash in hand.
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inala brah wrote:
Brisbane Ro wrote:
paulbagzFC wrote:
Why pay 22 grand for shit refs when we can just get local shit refs for 0 cost?


Maybe you kinda answered your own question.

Not going to help improve them by not providing them with such opportunities, better "career path" etc etc..


that is the reason that fury wanted to use local refs. to give them better experience.


For the local refs, not A-League which is where the game probably needs it most right now.

But I don't believe Fury on that one for a second anyway.


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sydneycroatia58 wrote:
pv4 wrote:
Brisbane Ro wrote:
Roar #1 wrote:
Nate wrote:
pv4 wrote:
After the Socceroos WC qualifying game v Iraq I spoke to an up-and-coming HAL referee and I was a little bit under the influence but I'm sure he told me he got $600 (that's the figure I vaguely remember) to line a HAL game, but the refs got at least double that and also it depended on the experience of each ref. Just thought I'd add that bit of info when thinking about adding up costs.


Yeah, from memory it was about $1,0000 for the middle, 50% of that for the ARs and 4th.

By comparison, an NPL WA middle pockets $175 for the middle, $87.50 for the line, for a first team match.


I didn't realize it was that much for the refs. It isn't bad as a side job on the Weekend.


Probably not so great all things considered, once the ATO has taken its cut (I'm assuming the figures are pre-tax).


The guy I talked to at the Socceroos game said take-home.


Obviously only local stuff. But when I did some refereeing for a season a few years back all money was cash in hand.


Yeah, refereeing is cash-in-hand anywhere under the State Leagues. Football West actually gets you to sign a declaration for the ATO that this is done as a hobby and is therefore exempt from income tax or something along those lines.
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paulc wrote:
Multiply what they get per game by the total games per year and you'll get the picture it's not a lot for someone to officiate a professional game in a professional league.

The more games they get, the better. Professionals or not.


But at the moment as a part time job, to be flown around the country on a weekend and earn 1k for a game isn't to bad. Plus, I'd say every single one of them genuinely enjoys doing it, I don't think refing is a job you just put up with and continue to do if you hate it.

Ideally this would be their full time profession, but ATM, I think they are being paid fairly.
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