But I could have so many wives :(

-PB

Comparing stuff from hundreds of years ago to today :lol: :lol: :lol:

I'd rather be living in a Christian country (or atleast one founded on Christian principles - see Australia, America, United Kingdom) than a Muslim one, that's for fucking sure.

Comparing stuff from hundreds of years ago to today :lol: :lol: :lol:

I'd rather be living in a Christian country (or atleast one founded on Christian principles - see Australia, America, United Kingdom) than a Muslim one, that's for fucking sure.

This . There was a spate of hindu led violence in Nepal but the media here just had a little write up . Also extremism isn't just a Muslim thing . There are extremist Christians , catholics, greens and capitalism

Yes they do get called out on it. The far right Christian fundamentalists are despised by most of the western world. But their atrocities such as killing abortion doctors is nothing compared to a 100 000 strong army of Islamic extremists committing countless war crimes as well as genocide. The two are incomparable.

Is anyone else sick of hearing about 'Islamic violence?'

Yeah there were also some recent Sikh violence in Antarctica, burnt down some igloos or something, but we heard nothing of it. Terrorists are treated so unfair by the media over here.

Don't be such a dick . Violence is violence . I don't condone what th e extremists do but to continually allude to their religion is what makes those deluded enough join up with those fuck tards . Do the far right Christian nut jibs in America gets called out for bombing abortion clinics ?

Yeah there were also some recent Sikh violence in Antarctica, burnt down some igloos or something, but we heard nothing of it. Terrorists are treated so unfair by the media over here.

This . There was a spate of hindu led violence in Nepal but the media here just had a little write up . Also extremism isn't just a Muslim thing . There are extremist Christians , catholics, greens and capitalism

Nah, doesn't suit any media outlets agenda ;)

-PB

Nah, doesn't suit any media outlets agenda ;)

-PB

I am . What is Islamic violence ? Is it different to Catholic violence or Hindu violence? Pretty sure violence is violence no matter what religion , creed , and or colour

perhaps they should refer to it as "islamic extremist" violence????

seen any catholic or hindu be headings lately???

I am . What is Islamic violence ? Is it different to Catholic violence or Hindu violence? Pretty sure violence is violence no matter what religion , creed , and or colour

Is anyone else sick of hearing about 'Islamic violence?'

So it's Western society's fault that people are converting into radical Islam?

Isis jihadi's aren't medieval – they are shaped by modern western philosophy

Kevin McDonald for The Conversation

We should look to revolutionary France if we want to understand the source of Islamic State's ideology and violence

Over recent weeks there has been a constant background noise suggesting that Islamic State (Isis) and its ideology are some sort of throwback to a distant past. It is often framed in language such as that used last week by the deputy prime minister, Nick Clegg, who said Isis was “medieval”. In fact, the terrorist group’s thinking is very much in a more modern, western tradition.

Clegg’s intervention is not surprising. Given the extreme violence of Isis fighters and the frequent images of decapitated bodies, it is understandable that we attempt to make sense of these acts as somehow radically “other”.

But this does not necessarily help us understand what is at stake. In particular, it tends to accept one of the core assertions of contemporary jihadism, namely that it reaches back to the origins of Islam. As one Isis supporter I follow on Twitter is fond of saying: “The world changes; Islam doesn’t”.

This is not just a question for academic debate. It has real impact. One of the attractions of jihadist ideology to many young people is that it shifts generational power in their communities. Jihadists, and more broadly Islamists, present themselves as true to their religion, while their parents, so they argue, are mired in tradition or “culture”.

It needs to be said very clearly: contemporary jihadism is not a return to the past. It is a modern, anti-traditional ideology with a very significant debt to western political history and culture.

When he made his speech in July at Mosul’s Great Mosque declaring the creation of an Islamic state with himself as its caliph, Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi quoted at length from the Indian/Pakistani thinker Abul A’la Maududi, the founder of the Jamaat-e-Islami party in 1941 and originator of the contemporary term Islamic state.

Maududi’s Islamic state is profoundly shaped by western ideas and concepts. He takes a belief shared between Islam and other religious traditions, namely that God alone is the ultimate judge of a person, and transforms this – reframing God’s possession of judgment into possession of, and ultimately monopoly of, “sovereignty”. Maududi also draws upon understandings of the natural world governed by laws that are expressions of the power of God – ideas at the heart of the 17th-century scientific revolution. He combines these in a vision of the sovereignty of God, then goes on to define this sovereignty in political terms, affirming that “God alone is the sovereign” (The Islamic Way of Life). The state and the divine thus fuse together, so that as God becomes political, and politics becomes sacred.

Such sovereignty is completely absent in medieval culture, with its fragmented world and multiple sources of power. Its origins lie instead in the Westphalian system of states and the modern scientific revolution.

But Maududi’s debt to European political history extends beyond his understanding of sovereignty. Central to his thought is his understanding of the French revolution, which he believed offered the promise of a “state founded on a set of principles” as opposed to one based upon a nation or a people. For Maududi this potential withered in France; its achievement would have to await an Islamic state.

In revolutionary France, it is the state that creates its citizens and nothing should be allowed to stand between the citizen and the state. That is why today French government agencies are still prevented by law from collecting data about ethnicity, considered a potential intermediary community between state and citizen.

This universal citizen, separated from community, nation or history, lies at the heart of Maududi’s vision of “citizenship in Islam”. Just as the revolutionary French state created its citizens, with the citizen unthinkable outside the state, so too the Islamic state creates its citizens. This is at the basis of Maududi’s otherwise unintelligible argument that one can only be a Muslim in an Islamic state.

Don’t look to the Qur’an to understand this – look to the French revolution and ultimately to the secularisation of an idea that finds its origins in European Christianity: extra ecclesiam nulla salus (outside the church there is no salvation), an idea that became transformed with the birth of modern European states into extra stato nulla persona (outside the state there is no legal personhood). This idea still demonstrates extraordinary power today: it is the source of what it means to be a refugee.

If Isis’s state is profoundly modern, so too is its violence. Isis fighters do not simply kill; they seek to humiliate, as we saw last week as they herded Syrian reservists wearing only their underpants to their death. And they seek to dishonour the bodies of their victims, in particular through postmortem manipulations.

Such manipulations aim at destroying the body as a singularity. The body becomes a manifestation of a collectivity to be obliterated, its manipulation rendering what was once a human person into an “abominable stranger”. Such practices are increasingly evident in war today.

Central to Isis’s programme is its claim to Muslim heritage – witness al-Baghdadi’s dress. Part of countering this requires understanding the contemporary sources of its ideology and its violence. In no way can it be understood as a return to the origins of Islam. This is a core thesis of its supporters, one that should not be given any credence at all.