SYDNEY’S Olympic arena ANZ Stadium will lose out under a confidential plan to spend up to $1.3 billion building new state-of-the-art sports stadiums at Moore Park and Parramatta.

With Sydney’s biggest stadium set to miss new funding, high-level negotiations are being finalised for ANZ’s operators to be paid $135 million over the next 15 years to hand over control to a new government-appointed super stadium trust.

Sport Minister Stuart Ayres is expected to receive a report this month recommending a new 65,000-seat venue be built near Moore Park’s outdated Allianz Stadium on land presently controlled by the Centennial Park and Moore Park Trust. It will also recommend the construction of a new 35,000- seat Parramatta Stadium, home to rugby league’s Parramatta Eels and soccer’s Western Sydney Wanderers.

The controversial plan will require Premier Mike Baird’s support to double the $600 million stadium fund he promoted at the March election.

Highly placed sources told The Daily Telegraph Mr Ayres believes the government will need to allocate about $800 million to build the new Moore Park stadium and $400 million for Parramatta Stadium.

Former Liberal leader John Brogden, who is writing the report for Mr Ayres, has also revealed to the Centennial Park and Moore Park Trust that a smaller multi-sports venue — believed to be worth about $100 million — would be built when Allianz is demolished in about five years.

Mr Ayres has told sports bosses, including NRL chief Dave Smith, he is determined to win the Premier’s backing to “future-proof” Sydney’s stadiums rather than adopt a smaller, piecemeal approach.

“It’s a once in a 50-year chance to get it right,’’ he has said. But the plan will create doubt about the long-term future of ANZ, with its bid for $350 million to move seats closer to the sports action being rejected.

Sources close to Mr Baird say the Premier will consider whatever plan is presented but they stress that “$600 million is what’s been allocated”.

The centrepiece of the plan is a hi-tech, 65,000-seat stadium to be built on the upper and lower Kippax playing fields at Moore Park East between Anzac Parade and Driver Avenue. Construction could begin in 2017 with the new venue expected to be hosting matches by 2020.

Mr Brogden has said in private meetings the development would include an underground carpark and training facilities. It would be serviced by the new light-rail service running from the CBD to Randwick.

But Centennial Park Trust chairman Tony Ryan has told Mr Brogden the trust has “significant concerns” over traffic management and land under its control being used for the stadium.

ANZ’s private-sector operator, Stadium Australia Group, is said to be in favour of a “management partnership” under which a new “super trust”, involving the Sydney Cricket and Sports Ground Trust, would take over the running of Allianz, the SCG, Parramatta Stadium and ANZ.

Stadium Australia Group would be paid annual annuities worth $135 million — a figure based on its projected earnings over the rest of its lease, due to expire in 2031.

It would also agree to waive its contractual rights which would limit the new Moore Park venue to 48,000 seats and Parramatta Stadium to 35,000 and prevent them from having roofs.



My view:
In short it is a "report", not a policy or plan for the Government.

Allianz demolished and replaced with a $100 million 'multi-sport venue', whatever that means (probably something similar to the Sydney Showground) that can host concerts.

New $800 million rectangular stadium at Moor Park.

$400 million for a new 35,000 Parramatta Stadium.

ANZ's private owners given $135 million over 15 years to give contract back to a (new?) government stadium mega trust. This seems to be sorted and will be finalised soon as isn't just a report.

Of course, this 'report' is more than twice the $600 million that the Government has as it's actual policy right now.

I'll believe it when I see it.

Maybe they'll build the 100 million oval stadium with a configurable rectangular configuration? I'd estimate that stadium will be in the 15k to 25k region like the Sydney Showground oval that the midgets play on.

I'm sure a 25k stadium that might be oval but has a rectangular configuration, could very well see use for the NRL, A-League as well as Cricket and other games. The whole "oval" multi-sport thing could just be a smokescreen so they can build another rectangular configuration stadium at the same time as they are building one next door.

AFAIK many of the suburban NRL grounds are owned by the local councils so the State Govts don't want to spend money on them. I think the NRL would rather demolish the SFS and get two stadiums at Moore Park that covers their needs far better. So far this season the SFS for NRL matches has played in front of 35k, 12k, 9k & 10k. Even the final series last had matches of 28k, 18k, 23k, 25k.

11 SFC home matches were under 25k, if they got a better deal than playing at the SFS I'm sure they'd jump at the chance to play the majority of their matches there. They might even put them all there bar the Sydney Derby.

The latest example of a 25k stadium in Australia in Metricon which cost about $150m so for $100m they would get a 16k ish venue.

That whole stadium blueprint is really quite a shit idea. Why do we need MORE multi-sport venues for AFL and Olympics.

My opinion. Soccer needs separate stadium not a multi-sport. Multi-Sport would always be larger stadium , AFL can use it, Rugby can use it, olympic sports can use it.

Soccer needs rectangle with higher seat angles . It's not the typical stadium , you couldn't just make an any old stadium for it.



Edited by highkick05: 4/5/2015 02:07:03 AM

Paired with the Rugby codes and the political and economic arguments for a separate, specific, stadium are much stronger. I guess this is what the $800M stadium is though?! And that's a 65k monstrosity! So teams with support levels like SFC still can't win a way - but that gets to MacktheKnife's idea with the other venue. With SFS/New 65k Venue, Sydneysiders already complain how difficult it is to get to SFS as is, so how on Earth they will regularly fill even half that capacity... though I suppose a Light-Rail direct to there would help?

Edit: Going by the picture and completely new stadium - SFS always was a little problematic, design wise etc..? It just seemed a big oval-like in the stand shape and that comes across on TV within the stadium too? Seat viewing doesn't seem the best from all sides and the stands themselves aren't necessarily as close to the pitch as more modern, code specific, venues aspire to be? IF that new $800M venue is designed as the picture suggests, then it may be more old-school, proper rectangle, with stand configuration seeming more like an EPL venue and so stadium viewing may be alot better like High Kick calls for and the view on TV may be alot better too? 'Excess capacity' can be overcome via seat covers over the second tier, the TV coverage side and the fans concentrated the ground level tie and around the pitch? The more enclosed design around the pitch and the roof could make for much, much better acoustics and so the result 'may' be a much better atmosphere and viewing experience - kind of akin to 'AAMI Park' in Melbourne, just a much, much bigger venue? :-k

The only issue then would be as Mack suggests - increased stadium rental costs. But if the stadium viewing, access and appeal is superior and enough to draw more fans on it's own, then SFC will have to weigh that up against increased costs? The increase in crowds that may come with the new venue with better access (Light-rail) may offset a lil these increased costs, even make it worthwhile? :-k

Edited by GloryPerth: 4/5/2015 02:26:36 AM

Hopefully WSW, SFC and the FFA fight for Safe Standing Areas at both these grounds. It's about time our fans were considered in the design of these grounds.

lol, they can't just cramp soccer in with another sport, it must be the _only_ sport I know that has a rectangle pitch.

You're fucking yourself in the ass if you think fans can watch a soccer game properly from a oval shaped seating area. It's bullshit, then you need dugouts the camera can easily get a good viewing angle over. It wouldn't work, so get off this idea FFA & Govt. of mega sized arena's for soccer, crazy thinking.. it won't ever work

FTR I wasn't talking an Oval shaped arena - If you look on the picture the $800M venue is a proper, yet massive, rectangle stadium?! But none of us would disagree that it's over-sized, but it's the environment we live - see Roar at Suncorp etc... The facts of the reality we have to share most places and in the North it's with Rugby League teams, some like Broncos who draw much larger crowds. We're lucky with WSW that the Eels had a more modest/appropriately sized stadium so WSW and their large base could grow into it to degree their strong demand forces upgrades and expansion.

Though Roar have talked of moving and Perry Park (Re-developed) is an longer term possibility.

I feel sympathy for SFC as they're the kind of 'CBD-based Team' or Central, Mid-South and East-Based - so their fate is to be stuck around that area and inevitably share in these venues. They ARE 'Sydney' FC after-all. But then, what sympathy?! Those could be amongst the best stadium options in the country! It CAN work and we see how Seattle Sounders and others have adapted in the MLS and many savvy FFT fans have discussed this, shared pictures, possibilities for Roar and others in that space of seat covering and other things. This $800M Mega-Stadium is supposed to be 'state of the art' so that SHOULD include dug-outs, great seating angles, fantastic screens, and the works.

Everybody (Govt, NRL, Union, Major Events, FFA/Football etc) is well cognisant of the pressures on live entertainment, or sport, these days - the big crowds aren't the 'given' they used to be, with a myriad of competition including in the Home Entertainment & Internet space. That's why grounds like AAMI Park and perhaps this new Moore Park venue are the way of the future - they have to compete more with the comforts of home, 4k TVs, Internet coverage and better tackle the quality and comfort for attending spectators and catering to all their modern needs and also enabling greater access for disabled, elderly etc... Broadening the appeal as an entertaining venue, a place of choice, but also improving it technically, with the pitch lay-out and maintenance, drainage, coverage etc... so the content for viewing is of better quality too, for those in the stadium and TV too.

Edited by GloryPerth: 4/5/2015 02:44:13 AM

People brought up those kind of ingenious 'rail-seats' or whatever they are called and I read that Parramatta Stadium installed/trialled some? What was the result there and does or will Parra's upgrade include a proper, substative, rail-seating area? The Wikpedia on it seems a little dated?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parramatta_Stadium#Future

Given this precedent and the $800M stadium's claims to being 'State of the Art' and a premium venue for the Rugby Codes AND Soccer - then surely some rows of rail-seating to be included for the Cove support of SFC and the like would have to be included?! Those seats seem nothing but a win-win?

Edited by GloryPerth: 4/5/2015 02:50:44 AM

I have no doubt that the government will end up fucking this up. For a start we dont need a 60-65k stadium in moore park. Just upgrade the current stadium. Parramatta on the other hand needs to be 30-35k. Perfect size.

I seriously have given up on the NSW government when it comes to stadium upgrades or new stadiums being built. SFS already has a capacity of 45,000 which is already too big for both Sydney FC and Sydney Roosters. Why on earth would you spend millions of dollars expanding the stadium to 65,000? Seriously how fucked in the head are some of these people who make decisions.
With half the money it would cost to build a new stadium I would say it would be better spend getting a decent roof on the stadium even if not a full cover but at the very least to cover most of the stands from rain unlike the current fucked up roof it has.
65,000 is simply too big for any NRL or A-League club in Australia or Sydney. We have ANZ Stadium for anything where there is a crowd of well over 45,000 expected.
Just like the millions of dollars spent on the GWS stadium which already had a capacity or 17,000. Knowing very well the Giants have signed a deal to play nearly half their games in the ACT the NSW government goes ahead with plans to expand the 17k stadium to 25k and as we all know they are struggling to get 7,000 to their games.

Who the hell would use a 65k stadium? Too big for any club sides of any code, too small for Origin or international matches. It is like the government is deliberately building a white elephant.

I feel like EG posted this in ET or Rumour Mill months ago.

Interesting stuff..

I started a thread here http://au.fourfourtwo.com/forums/default.aspx?g=posts&t=102453&p=2 about Scunthorpe's plans for a new stadium . Same topic really - just different angles.

I do not understand why this is all so hard in Australia. Somebody suggested the land costs are high here and that suburban stadia (such as perhaps Lidcombe and Leichhardt Ovals) are LGA owned (as opposed to state govt. owned). The fact is if a piece of land is vested in an LGA that is only because of a state government fiat and the "ownership" can be changed by to the state government at the stroke of a pen either through amalgamation of LGAs or just an outrght grab.

The other truth is that there are plenty of under utilised greenfield sites in this country. They are called golf courses. Most of them are on state owned land (one way or the other) and the actual utilisation is pitiful especially when you take into account the costs of upkeep and the negative environmental impacts.

So we have plenty of land, we have demand but we also have plenty of vested interests and poor transport infrastructure,

I agree that 65K is too big when the stadium cant be filled by SFC or the Roosters, and I would much rather prefer they spend money on putting a roof on the bloody thing.

They want a purpose built rectangular stadium so they can attract the big multi million dollar money spinners like State of Origin, Bledisloe Cup, Grand Finals for the NRL and of course the big name world football teams that come to Australia away from ANZ in Homebush and currently they have not got a hope in hell as the stadium is too small.

And was shot down for it lol.

-PB

One important factor that needs to be considered is that Australia has one of the highest infrastructure construction costs in the world behind only Denmark and Switzerland and on a par with Japan in the last survey I read. For this reason costs quoted in Western Europe cannot be used as an indication of what the same infrastructure can be built for here. There are many reasons for the higher costs and Governments throughout Australia have been looking at how this can be rectified. One of the reasons is that our tendering generally loads all the risk on the contractor and as a result the contractor's bid reflects the possibility of the risk being realised.

The idea for a 65k seater at Moore Park is that the government wants to bring events in to the city so attending will become an event that involves spending money in the city before and after the game as opposed to spending time getting to an event in the middle of nowhere then getting home. It is an attempt to make attending sport more like it is in Melbourne. If they build the stadium right i.e tight rectangular with steep rake, comfort and amenities and protection from the elements, then it could encourage a greater attendance culture in Sydney.

I think it is the right decision to refuse more money to ANZ which isn't a great location or a great stadium. SFS and Parra are much better locations and better integrated into their communities.

I think SFS will work if the transport is fixed, which could well happen if the Western motorway eventually connects to the M2/Eastern Distributer, if light rail is built and if adequate parking and traffic flow is addressed.

Hopefully it doesn't become overused by low drawing Rugby League games to the point where a degraded pitch prevents it from being a world class stadium.

Seriously, what the crappity crap is going on with this show?

I not sure that you are quite right about the risk being carried by the contractors. For example the boards of contractors in Europe frequently if not always are required to provide Contract Guarantees (up to 10% of the contact value) based on their personal assets and/or bonds (with counter indemnities) provided by third parties such as insurers. This is not the case most of the time in Australia.

Historically contractors in Australia have tried to divest themselves of carrying any risk wherever they can. The standard form MBA and SAA contracts (the last time I looked) are designed to do just that.

Until fairly recently LGA and government departments attempts to have contractors even provide details of their liability insurance policies were resisted by their industry bodies.




Edited by Oblivious Troll: 4/5/2015 09:46:16 AM

Sydney FC currently get about 18k in a 45k stadium, and the Roosters get about 12k in the same joint.

And so the NSW Govt is going to spend almost a billion dollars of taxpayers money to build a 65k stadium across the road.

Wtf is wrong with these people...?!!

It's funny you mention the rugby lot having a whinge about standing areas. Down here at Kardinia Park there is a bit of backlash because the club put seats in the old standing terrace area about 3 years ago and lots of die hard AFL fans are saying the atmosphere at the ground has died a lot as a result. Lots of people calling for it to be brought back.

They probably see the 65k stadium being used for State of Origin, Socceroo matches etc (even the 35k at Parra can be used for Socceroo games). This means ANZ will never be used as its terrible to watch football at.

Think we need to get back on topic.

Government sux. I don't think they should be thought of as owners of A-League club stadiums. I think this is stupid and could only mean that Government has some say in what happens at the stadiums. I cringe to think of this and think this is a massive no no for the direction of our game. Also they will fuck something up , you can garuantee.

I think FFA should fight to have these 'new stadiums' built for the sole purpose to be owned entirely by clubs in the A-League. Designed appropriately to meet the media demands and supporter demands and player demands. When we're thinking of the various things the Government will fuck up with stadiums I think we also need to think of what sacrifices we're willing to make. Just because land isn't available or there is no train tracks next to a ground is simply not good enough reason not to build a stadium that will be owned eventually by the club and supporters..

-PB

:lol:



Victory no red cards this season =d>

Clearly not as bad as the 30+ disciplinary points over any other team shows

Edited by highkick05: 4/5/2015 10:35:13 AM

-PB

:lol: we're out my friend. Why couldn't ben williams be in charge of the audit :(

IIRC he had two parts to his rumour (I went looking for the thread but couldn't find it), one was that ANZ would get knocked down (which I gave no chance), and the other that SFS would get knocked down. Which I thought was a possibility.

:( I thought when they spoke about it being built on land owned by the Centennial Parklands, that they were finally going to knock down the Soviet Era looking E.S Marks, and build it there. It's a cute ground, but has not aged well. Athletics NSW wouldn't like that, but you'd assume they'd be able to move their meets to Hensley Athletic, which IIRC has just as good if not better athletics facilities, albeit on a slightly smaller patch of ground - and once the 'multi-purpose' venue is built where the SFS stands, they could then move it there. Surely they could slap an Athletics track around it, isn't that the point of a 'multi-purpose' venue?

I've always had a small wet dream at our Russian overlords throwing a bunch of cash at the SCG Trust/Centennial Parklands and buying E.S Marks, and turning it into a nice 25,000 seater for us. It's a lovely little ground, but it's well-outdated aside from a new running track.