I know, what a ridiculous post. The state/federal policies resulting in the 'stolen generation' was still going on 25yrs after WW2.

Aboriginal people were massacred by white people in Australia's early history. FACT. Horrible injustices have been perpetuated upon Aboriginals in the past. FACT.

They were not allowed to vote until 1967. FACT.

But my post is still right.

The problems are cultural. Acknowledgement of past injustices is important, but crucially it does not change the culture, despite our best intentions.

By the way, I'm part Aboriginal. I have seen this mentality within my extended family.

Let me ask you this. Is Australia a more or less racist country than in the past? Of course it is less racist. There is less discrimination.

Then why do these problems still exist? In fact, they are arguably worse. Certainly not better.

Why?

Typical Left wing mentality...
hope to fuck you have a good government that is generous to give you enough money for you to live off centrelink for a fortnight.
build cycle paths thinking roads were made for cyclists in the first place



Edited by Socawho: 26/1/2016 02:01:41 PM

Edited by Socawho: 26/1/2016 02:02:20 PM

And this one is knocked right out of the park...!

everyone at each others throats is what Australia Day means to me :)
thats how we celebrate our diversity :)

Aboriginals need Moar money, They already get 30+ billion a year to spend on cheap housing and grog

I disagree.

We need to maintain Australia Day as the black armband activist day that it is as a constant reminder to those with ill gotten white privilege.

Its our day of mourning.

daTs An oUtrage It Is

My main problem is that it's such a large and complex issue that has been essentially distilled down to "aboriginals have a lazy culture and don't work hard enough". Though he posted it in his usual condescending and "baiting" way, Murdoch rags is spot on.

The very successful Stan Grant seems to think racism is just as prevalent as ever in Australia...
[youtube]uEOssW1rw0I[/youtube]

On the original topic, even if Aboriginals were more "successful" by the standards you set out, would having Australia Day on the 26th January still be a good idea?

I don't understand what life expectancy has much to do with the issue. All Australians had low life expectancies, the ABS' earliest records of life expectancy has males at 47 between 1881-1890. You think that they wouldn't develop as they see fit in an increasingly global world?

Obviously, as I expected, my post has created some consternation. So lets explore some more.

I'm sure people here would agree that Jewish people have suffered discrimination in just about every place they have lived for much of the last few thousand years.
They've been hated by the Christians, and are still hated by fundamentalists. Muslims detest Jews. There are 1.5 billion muslims and just 14 million Jews. They were nearly exterminated from the planet as recently as 70 years ago.

Ok, so we can all acknowledge, that like Aborigines, Jews have suffered extensive injustices and that those injustices have been fairly recent.

However, we can all agree, that Jews are tremendously successful. Why?

Is it because people have acknowledged injustices of the past, or is it because its built into their culture? You know plenty of people still hate jews.

What lessons can be learned about other discriminated but successful cultures like Jews and Asians who came to the western world that can be applied to the disadvantage faced by Aborigines?

One school of thought might be to say that to fix the problem we need to acknowledge injustices of the past and apologise for them. Provide a greater slice of welfare than what other people get. Give them free health care and free medications rather than just subsidised ones. All of these have great intentions. They are initiated by government and industry with the greatest of intentions to help people. But do they really help?

Or do we need to change the culture? How do we change the culture for the better? Is it going to change for the better by perpetuating a culture upon young Aboriginal people that they can't be successful because of injustices committed upon their relatives in the past? That the system is against them?

Or do we instill into them that they too can be successful if they stay in school and work hard. Rather than blaming society.

The reason why I'm saying this is that it is often Non-aboriginal people who perpetuate the idea that the system is against Aborigines or any marginalised group and I think this does more harm than good.

One of the ways this culture of failure can be broken, I believe, is for successful Aboriginal people to come out and say that they got to where they are by valuing education and hard work. I think they can be great role models in that regard.

WHY DON'T YOU GO PAY 4 POUNDS TO SUCK OFF THE REMAINS FUCKED UP GOD KARL MARX

Wow. This is the intolerant mindset we're dealing with here. ^

Edited by trident: 26/1/2016 04:43:30 PM

The fact that some are too blinded by their "left/right" mentality to notice an obvious parody of a left leaning person is about the only thing I appreciate about this lame account of yours ricey.

Very good turn out at the march this year. Some heartbreaking stories.

The stigma that indigenous people are lazy has got to stop...i agree it is embedded in the white mans thinking which does not help.
It seems there is no plausible solution until the domestic problems they have are fixed.

On that note its nice to see the Australian of the Year also addressing the gender pay gap, domestic violence and the institutionalised culture that has unfairly empowered white anglo saxon men.

No i'm looking at it in a dollars and cents way. We already had an intervention that failed spectacularly.

I think it's unreasonable to expect our generation to pick up the bill for issues that started long before we were born.

Once you start talking compensation you never hear the end. Claims will come in for decades. We will spend billions and likely achieve nothing for average indigenous. It's a noble idea you have but an unreasonable one.

This. It was the English who did everything up until 1901.

Probably should be the date we became a Federation, actually became a nation, but that's already a public holiday and we'd have smashed through our allocation of fireworks the night before.

Make it Jan 27... does it change anything?

It could be possible that NOT having it on the anniversary of the beginning of systematic genocide would do wonders for acceptance of the day within Australian Society.

I understand the sentiment but in reality life is like this. You can't take advantage of the benefits afforded to you by previous generations without taking on the bad things too.

If you're parents have a home loan and other debts (apart from HECS) when they pass away, that debt gets transferred to you. If the previous generation polluted the waterways meaning there is a shortage of potable water, you have to deal with it and find a solution.

The reality is it barely affects your day to day life and I struggle to understand why it's such an imposition to say "previous generations did horrible things to you and have put you in a shitty situation. We'll do our best to help you". Whether the way we're currently helping is the best way or not is another matter of course.

Do what mcjules said - change it to the date we become a Republic.

Some people keep trying to make the point that "we can't be held responsible for what happened in the past". I don't know whether people understand that the effects of indigenous people being placed on reserves, the abduction of children as part of the Stolen Generation actions, etc have ongoing effects today.

The stolen generation policies only ceased in the 1970s, so its hardly in the past. Putting people on reserves has created the issues some have referred to as "indigenous cultural problems". The "welfare mentality" was created by the govts of the time, quite consciously and intended. Indigenous people were forced to live on reserves, prevented from getting education, and forced to either not work, or engage in only menial labour.

I don't think people understand that the stated clear purpose of govt policies up to the 1960s was actually to wipe indigenous Australians out as a race through "diluting" their race via interbreeding some, and isolating the rest to presumably 'die out'.

There is an infamous govt newsreel from the 1950s depicting this - they used a bathtub full of water, and an eyedropper with black ink, and dripped the black ink in to the bathtub water and showed it diluting.

So the devastation of indigenous communities didn't finish in the 1800s, it was right up until the 1970s by law. And in practice it continues even until today in many areas.

I don't know about other people, but I still hear appallingly racist things said about indigenous Australians by people who wouldn't regard themselves as racist, and who would not be openly racist against other ethnicities.

Racism against indigenous people is still widely accepted, and stereotypes and prejudices still rife. Pretending otherwise is just a joke.

They've got every right to be aggrieved by Jan 26. The problem is that we never had a war of independence like the USA, so we never had an overthrow of the colonial power. So we have to keep this mythology going that there were no frontier wars, that blacks somehow "get lots of free things from the govt" etc etc.

I mean we still have the union jack on our flag! We are still a colony in our mindset.

Aboriginal life expectancy Males: 69.1
non-Aboriginal life expectancy Males: 79.7
Aboriginal life expectancy Females: 73.7
non-Aboriginal life expectancy Females: 83.1

That actually is an outrage.

Sad but true. I'm pleased that the republican movement is starting to get some traction again. Just need to convince the apathetic about it's importance. Hear too many times "we have other priorities", like we can walk and chew gum at the same time.

The good thing about that idea is that we can rig the date so the holiday is at the best time to suit us :) I actually like an late jan/early feb holiday, just not on the 26th for the reasons mentioned many times on this thread!

i have mixed feelings about a republic...its good that it hopefully opens a new chapter for indignous recognition and turning over a new leaf...but bad from a law perspective. By that i mean every facet of law would be rejigged to affect day to day livng...i mean where do you stand as a citizen ? , what are your rights?
the cost to the taxpayer would be massive. ...the laws will be rejigged by people who have an agenda for themselves that might not benefit everyone and only their constiuents.
I mean i get sick of Ray Martin telling me whats good for me...and whats not.
Eventually Australia will be a republic no question...but it seems people like Ray Martin want to jump head first without a gradual transition...people like Ray Martin actually turn off people who are undecided

Edited by Socawho: 27/1/2016 12:03:20 PM