I'd rather somebody admit they don't give a shit about a trending talking point than express a view they don't truly hold for fear of being screamed down as a bigot/racist/homophobe/ misogynist etc etc. Not everybody cares about whether the school mascot is a giant douche or a turd sandwich. Just because you care deeply about an issue doesn't mean that everybody else has to.

On saying that, I think these lockout laws are a joke and reek of property developers and James Packer giving golden handshakes to Baird. It's a damn shame that my home city, the city I was born in, has come to exemplify the worst aspects of this country as a whole. I feel personally like this isn't just a problem with Sydney, but a problem with Australia as a whole- whether it's because we have a relatively small population or we're such a young nation (in regards to colonial history) it seems we're more prone than most to introducing reactionary, bandaid laws and regulations because of the 0.0001 percent of people in this country who are irresponsible fuckwits and media hysteria. I'm eligible for an English passport and it's shit like this that makes me consider moving abroad, just so I can live in a country where I'm treated like a responsible adult.

But just because people like you and I care about this, doesn't mean that I think everybody else should feel passionate about it and agree with me or else incur my wrath...


Edited by Captain Haddock: 16/2/2016 10:52:23 PM

No one is pre-gaming because no one is going out.

One thing I did enjoy about going to the city/ the Cross was once I had failed to pick-up and no longer wanted to jump on the dance floor, I could always find a quiet pub at 3 or 4 in the morning and sit back with my mates until we were ready to make a move home.

How no one of stature has called for an inquiry yet is beyond me. This smacks of corruption and under the table favours

If you want to reduce rates of violence late at night - reform the security industry!

I cannot count the amount of times they have either caused or massively escalated the potential for violence, or on the other hand stood back and watched someone get a kicking for the laughs.

They are heavily infiltrated by the underworld, and are often on drugs themselves while working. Fix that industry and you will go a long way towards making nightlife safer for people.

THIS!

They did the same thing in Melbourne when they did the 3 month trial - Crown Casino was exempt. Fortunately wiser heads prevailed and the lock out was dumped when it was obvious that it made matters worse.

The problem isn't serving alcohol it's 3am.

It's dickheads who can't handle their alcohol at 3am. Nothing's going to change. I think on the GC we have 3qam lockout laws?

People will just start pre-gaming and drinking earlier before they head out lol.

Instead of punching on @ 4am they will do it @ 1am.

This will change nothing.

-PB

Not arguing your point, but this part happened in August last year.

Reducing assault rates by killing an entire industry is not a proper solution. It's the same sort of rediculous logic that would see all roads in peak hour closed because that is when car accidents are at their highest. It's a dumb strategy that's key items has nothing to do with tackling the circumstances surrounding those publicised king hits and all to do with Baird and his army of religious fuckwits promoting their Social Agenda.

Meanwhile in Melbourne, I can leave home late and hop from bar to bar at my leisure. Following that, I'll jump straight onto tram at 3am and get home quickly. No need to even go near awful taxi ranks or hang around till morning and i've never felt safer.

Edited by melbourne_terrace: 12/2/2016 03:36:13 PM

Here's an even better idea: Make sure EVERY SINGLE PLACE can't serve alcohol past the exact same point in time, so that the venues all have to close and the streets are flooded with people who've been drinking for hours, who have nothing left to do because they've just been kicked out of a venue for no reason other than the place has to close and they've got nowhere to go but home. Seriously genius reasoning there.

And the people claiming that these laws make it safer clearly don't go out often. Not letting groups of people in because theyre 5 minutes late only has the potential to cause problems. Or even more idiotic making last drinks earlier so everyone leaves earlier at the same time, making it even more overcrowded trying to get home, is a disaster waiting to happen.

Yep. Its effectively a police state. Where you can go and what you are allowed to do. You arent an adult. We will take car of you. People like EG are babied by Murdoch and his mates. This is what happens when you accept the long rod of media bullshit.

Bbc even sticking in the boot.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-35499522

For real. Lockout laws have got to be one of the dumbest fucking things that could be implemented.

Saddest part is that these cunts don't even realise that their freedom is being taken away for the sole fact that they choose not to exercise their freedom. It's seriously along the lines of those dickheads that say "I don't care if gays can get married or not because I'm not a gay" or "I don't care if women can get abortions or not because I'm not a woman or married to one".

Wake up to yourselves.

He's fucked either way...he cant win on this issue

Meanwhile crown is exempt. Lol if you sydney siders think this is a good move you are more retarded than i thought. Melbourne has just implemented all night trains buses and trams over the weekend. This allows more options over the weekend to get home on top of uber and taxis.

What world class cities have lock out laws what a joke. Sydney is literally australias shame.

Anyway, I think Niemöller put it best when he said:

First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

Everyone has the choice to not go out. It doesn't endow them with the ability to ruin other peoples' freedom.

This isn't about how much alcohol you drink. It's about having the personal freedom to choose to drink when you want.

No, I agree with you 100% that that's dodgy.

The thing that really pisses me off is the fact these laws aren't enforced on the Casino.

..and really, if you can't even realise what's going on when The Star and Packer's new casino are literally the only places near the CBD that are exempt from the lockout laws when Packer just made a $7 million donation to the NSW Liberal party and NSW Liberals president just left to take up an executive job at The Star, then I really have nothing to say to you in regards to this anyway.

So much respect lost.

No one has the right to tell me, or you, that there's a difference between buying a bottle of wine at 21:59 and 22:01. The stats are completely ridiculous in here - I mean really, the stats show that the laws are working because violence has dropped 40%? Well, uh... Foot traffic in those same places has dropped 80%, and the stat of 40% includes an extra 6 regions than the previous report, so if anything the "per capita" rate of violence has actually increased.

The gun analogy is also completely ridiculous - alcohol isn't specifically to designed to kill people like guns are - in what world is that a realistic argument? Guns need licencing, just like cars, just like alcohol. Some guns can't be bought, but no one is stopping anyone from shooting at a range at 4am. Some cars can't be bought, but no one is stopping anyone from driving at 4am. Some alcohol can't be bought, but no one is stopping any... Wait, nevermind.

Sydney is dead now, and I say that as a muso that has played over 100 gigs in Sydney over 15 years. The music scene is dead. Entertainment scene is dying. Art scene is leaving for NYC, Europe and Melbourne.

In any case, the trial worked in Newcastle to the detriment of the nightlife there. More than 14 clubs have already gone out of business in Newcastle since they brought the laws in, and the same shit is happening in Sydney right now.

It's not about whether you like Kings Cross. It's not about whether you like Oxford St. It's not about whether you think people of certain ethnicity are causing trouble. It's about the fact that no one has the right to tell a sober, thoughtful person when and when they can't have a drink (or even eat after midnight ffs). The city has 4.5+ million people, and two blokes died before 9pm due to coward punches, yet you blokes are actually sitting there saying this shit is working?

You know, people that aren't, uh, you, actually like to go out and have a good night. If you're not going to go out and exercise your freedom to buy a bottle of wine at 22:01 or buy a beer at 03:01, then sorry, but why the fuck are you even commenting? More people die drowning every year than being one punched to death, yet I don't hear you blokes asking for beaches to be closed once the lifesavers go off duty?

Wake the fuck up to yourselves.

The worst part is that most people arguing against it have nothing to back them up and aren't addressing the actual issue, which is lives and public safety.

I'm a fence sitter on this issue. I find the new laws frustrating and they were a knee jerk reaction, but something needed to be done.
IMO, they need to change the laws and fix Sydney's public transport over weekends, so that drunk people can actually get home.

Also, I think it's as simple as stationing a cop in problem venues all night in order to properly enforce RSA. Now that's just one solution, but why don't they make lock out 3am and just crack down on RSA?

I hated Kings Cross because of all the heads there. And yes, a large majority of those heads were of certain ethnicities, which can't be denied, and generally i avoid at all costs when I'm out. The thing that pisses me off is that now all these people are out in Newtown and Surry Hills, which sucks... It's completely killed the vibe in those places.

But now I'm just ranting.

I thought it was an excellent analogy, which is why the negative response was so weak.

So his claims that local bars have increased 2x have apparently come from stats compared to those of 2010. Except the 2x increase has come from a precinct 4x the size of the original sample size. How voters can cop being blatantly lied to is beyond belief

Emotional responses don't negate what I said.

I would argue that an evangelical would be much more likely to be driven by an ideological agenda, rather than an evidence based one.

And I would argue that is the case with Baird.

this whole thing made me cringe so hard.

If that isn't out and out lying to suit one's agenda, what is?

The 'stats' that Baird used were not just misleading, they were out and out fudged.

Read this if you haven't already

Even if there is a slightly greater reduction in violence, it's still not worth destroying such a major industry over. New laws are destroying Brisbane as well.

Just because you are evangelical, doesn't mean you aren't evidence based, or that this policy isn't evidence based. Indeed, it was based on the evidence of the trial at Newcastle. Seems like you are the one making assumptions here built on your existing biases.