Most Americans don't have passports. The place is fucked.

This is a really strange comment.

Considering the US has beach, mountains, desert, forest and everything in between etc etc plus Hawaii and Alaska they don't need to leave.

I'm not suggesting the States hasn't got some of the most beautiful natural wonders in the world (of all kinds) or that they're not ideal for holidaymakers. I think it has amazing beaches, slopes, national parks, etc., in addition to cities that are utterly unique.

However, the notion, in this day and age, of the majority of the population of an (allegedly) developed country never vising an overseas country is somewhat mind-boggling. It highlights the parochial nature of so many people in that country.

Many people can't afford to.

Plus the fact most people only have 2 weeks (10 work days) holiday. So they don't want to use much time in transit.

The Belgians didn't speak to Abdesalaam for the first 24 hours he was in custody because he was tired and only spoke to him for a total of two hours before the suicide bombings despite all of the deaths he had caused and finding weapons and bombs in his apartment. 35 died and hundreds were wounded so that a few self-important fuckwits could pride themselves on their humane treatment of scumbags who want nothing more than to murder their children.

Before whining about enhanced interrogation ask yourself how many people is an acceptable number to die in order to feed your moral vanity? Is 35 enough? Even calling it torture is a sign of your weakness, torture is using drills, knives, fire and rape against a prisoner. It is what ISIS, al-Qaeda and the rest of our Islamist enemies do to their prisoners. Waterboarding and sleep deprivation are nothing like that.

Crusader although i agree with you for the most part I would bet there would be a reason why they didn't interrogate him straight away. They probably wanted as much infomation coming into the interrogation as not to run about false leads.

So much this.

The same bleeding heart sentiment is responsible for so much crime in our country as well as America.

What rubbish. Torture is inherently unreliable in extracting truthful information. Yes, you will get them to talk. But they will say what they think you want to hear.

Waterboarding does constitute torture. Is it the same as drilling a hole in someone? No. But it qualifies as torture under international standards.

Using the "its not as bad as ISIS" line is also inherently silly. The whole point of living in a society that values the rule of law, rights of the individual and limits on the power of govt is that we believe in those principles all the time. Not just when it is easy.

Countries I would live in before choosing the USA:
New Zealand
Canada
Norway
Finland
Sweden
Germany
Denmark
Holland
and plenty more

Good thing no one gives one iota of a fuck what you think.

Why are you on this forum? You never talk about football and just use it to push your agenda against those dumb right-wingers.

Perfect

Very true but it makes us vulnerable.

We're far too tolerant of those who seek to abuse the rights of others.

Ben Franklin - ”He who would trade liberty for some temporary security, deserves neither liberty nor security.”

Agreed.

In times of war you do what you have to do to protect your side of the line.

-PB

Pfft.

Unless you have a shit load of cash I wouldnt bother with Europe.

Edited by scott21: 31/3/2016 04:07:57 PM

Isn't Greece cheap as fuck or is that just for holidayers and it's actually fucking hell for people living in the country?

If something happened in a major city that resulted in the deaths of thousands of your fellow citizens you would feel differently.

Greece is great if you are on holiday. If you are a local under 30, good luck getting a job. It's very hard to live over there, especially in Athens.

Right wingers - my first choice for filling the opposing side in public debates. Intellectual cannon fodder :lol:

Plus they only get a week of leave each year... when would they travel? Original point stands, the place is fucked.

Agreed, anti-terrorism is no place for the squeamish.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-03-31/under-interrogation-does-torture-work/7287552

Article on ABC news at the moment

Waterboarding is not torture, psychological pressure is applied through the perceived danger of drowning but there is no actual threat of drowning. Sleep deprivation is the most important aspect of interrogation, but the Belgians let it pass.

The first 72 hours are crucial, allowing that to pass ensured that no information extracted was of tactical value.

Pity the old UN High Commissioner for Human Rights, and most of those with legal expertise on such matters, believe that it is torture. As per the UN Convention Against Torture and ought to lead to prosecutions. It would be ever so nice to see some of those guilty of it tried accordingly.

Ditto the European Court of Human Rights.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-usa-torture-un-idUKN0852061620080208

http://www.truth-out.org/news/item/25452-european-court-finds-cia-interrogation-techniques-amounted-to-torture

I'm guessing you quoted the wrong thing. Anyway, I'll run with it.

Imagine your spouse was tortured in some of the most grotesque ways imaginable.

You might feel differently.

Heartless attempt to be facetious. You can do far better.

And for every opinion that it is torture there is one that says it isn't. Treating terrorists like burglars just got 35 people killed in Belgium, I am sure they are glad to have died to let you feel smug.