Everything from certain minorities being second-class citizens (gays etc) to women's role in society through to choice of punishments for offenders/application of violence as displayed in this thread.

Boring & Cold.

Simplistic thinking? You bet.

Who is America at war with to use this technique? I also assume nobody sees a problem with the opposing side doing the same thing.

Also, a lot of the right have far more in common with Islamists/sharia than most Muslims do.

Neither of those contingencies is particularly likely. Thankfully.

As I say, you'd feel differently if your spouse was tortured. And, for what it's worth, (highly unlikely though it is) it's not beyond the realms of possibility. Innocent people have in the past been accused of things that have nothing to do with them. In the UK in the 80s, people merely related to those falsely accused of bombing a pub in Guildford were arrested and (wrongly) found guilty. Those falsely accused were tortured. It's not as implausible as you'd think. And it's precisely why it behoves good people to speak out against the kind of savagery which you're promoting.

And I don't see that professor as the font of all wisdom. I merely value his psychiatric expertise (as one of the leading psychiatrists in Australia) over that of somebody on the internet. This particular bloke has extensive experience treating patients who have been involved in conflict zones (as military personnel, civilians, torture victims, etc.). But by all means, downplay the opinions of the most high-qualified people who also have a bucketload of experience in this area.

I commend you for the work you've done for the armed forces, but it doesn't magically validate your opinion. A bunch of members of my own family have served in various theatres of war, in the British and Australian armies, and they utterly disagree with your stance on torture.

What "enhanced methods" do you prescribe?

Spot on. Proper concersational interrogation is by far a better method but it takes time. Enhanced methods can be more effective to learn about the next 72 hours.

It is much more likely that my spouse would be blown up by the idiot screaming Allahu Akbar, torture that fucker any way you want.

It is touching that you still see your professor as the font of all wisdom, one day you will learn that the self-serving opinion of a man who has never done the job speculating about the suitability of others in a field he has never known is worth nothing.

In regards to torturer to gain an admission of guilt, then yes you are 100% right.

But if "what they think you want to hear" is the location of potential terrorists preparing to attack innocent civilians then i'm all for it.

Not for every educated opinion. The examples I've provided are from the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights and from European Court of Human Rights. Rather difficult to trump (pardon the pun).

I studied this at university. We found it was almost unanimous that people well-versed in international law, medicine, ethics, etc., regarded waterboarding as torture and regarded torture as unacceptable. You read the Benjamin Franklin quote.

I had a lecturer who's a psychiatrist and an associate professor (or similar) in that field. He was of the opinion that those who engage in torturing are extremely mentally unwell, in need of psychiatric treatment and ill-qualified for their respective roles in the armed forces, police force or whatever.

By the way, disgraceful comment on your part. I pity the state of the world, I'm not smug about it. I'm horrified for the victims of the Brussels attack. Torture would have made no difference. The quality of intelligence gleaned from torture is pisspoor. It's even dangerous to rely upon it.

I'll simply say to you what I said to the other bloke.

Imagine if your spouse was being tortured in some of the most grotesque ways imaginable.

You might feel differently.

And for every opinion that it is torture there is one that says it isn't. Treating terrorists like burglars just got 35 people killed in Belgium, I am sure they are glad to have died to let you feel smug.

Heartless attempt to be facetious. You can do far better.

I'm guessing you quoted the wrong thing. Anyway, I'll run with it.

Imagine your spouse was tortured in some of the most grotesque ways imaginable.

You might feel differently.

Pity the old UN High Commissioner for Human Rights, and most of those with legal expertise on such matters, believe that it is torture. As per the UN Convention Against Torture and ought to lead to prosecutions. It would be ever so nice to see some of those guilty of it tried accordingly.

Ditto the European Court of Human Rights.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-usa-torture-un-idUKN0852061620080208

http://www.truth-out.org/news/item/25452-european-court-finds-cia-interrogation-techniques-amounted-to-torture

Waterboarding is not torture, psychological pressure is applied through the perceived danger of drowning but there is no actual threat of drowning. Sleep deprivation is the most important aspect of interrogation, but the Belgians let it pass.

The first 72 hours are crucial, allowing that to pass ensured that no information extracted was of tactical value.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-03-31/under-interrogation-does-torture-work/7287552

Article on ABC news at the moment

Agreed, anti-terrorism is no place for the squeamish.

Plus they only get a week of leave each year... when would they travel? Original point stands, the place is fucked.

Right wingers - my first choice for filling the opposing side in public debates. Intellectual cannon fodder :lol:

Greece is great if you are on holiday. If you are a local under 30, good luck getting a job. It's very hard to live over there, especially in Athens.

If something happened in a major city that resulted in the deaths of thousands of your fellow citizens you would feel differently.

Isn't Greece cheap as fuck or is that just for holidayers and it's actually fucking hell for people living in the country?

Pfft.

Unless you have a shit load of cash I wouldnt bother with Europe.

Edited by scott21: 31/3/2016 04:07:57 PM

In times of war you do what you have to do to protect your side of the line.

-PB

Agreed.

Ben Franklin - ”He who would trade liberty for some temporary security, deserves neither liberty nor security.”

Very true but it makes us vulnerable.

We're far too tolerant of those who seek to abuse the rights of others.

Perfect

Good thing no one gives one iota of a fuck what you think.

Why are you on this forum? You never talk about football and just use it to push your agenda against those dumb right-wingers.