I meant footballing codes not the likes of tennis, basketball, darts or bocci, apologies.

got a 2021 diary for crimbo, what date should i be pencilling for the start of second division ?

2nd tier should look towards english 5 th tier which started part time a generation ago but now is full time apart from one club

Will be interesting to see how the NSD plays out alongside A-League expansion. My preference, and I imagine most people's here, would be simply for the A-League to promote a team from the NSD each year till they hit 16, and then start relegating as well.

But if they're hooked on their license fees (how much are these worth now though, given that CCM and the Jets can't even be given away?), then maybe they will fast-track expansion to reach 16 within the next couple of years (say: 2022 for 13-14, and 2024 for 15-16). Then you'd think they would be amenable to pro-rel, since the big clubs would have a significant buffer before they have to worry about relegation dogfights, and the new clubs would know what they were in for anyway.

If so, A-League expansion should focus on regional centres not yet covered: Canberra, Wollongong, Gold Coast, and then either Hobart or Auckland (depending if we can get away with another NZ side in the comp). And the NSD will be composed mostly of second tier sides from the major cities, which is what the report indicated was likely.

I just finished reading the report too. There is one big absence in the financial modelling section: namely, club revenue. There is a listing of club expenses which looks pretty realistic (e.g., $450-800k for the playing squad costs), but no info on how much money clubs are expected to make, what kind of crowds they will get, sponsors, etc. Probably because the vast majority of top NPL clubs are heavily subsidised by social clubs, benefactors, juniors programmes, etc. They make barely any revenue at all from their senior side, and I'm not sure how much this will change in an NSD. Crowds might go up from the NPL, but I can't see too many clubs getting more than around 2000 spectators to a game at the most (SMFC might be an exception, but there won't be too many others).

I don't mean to sound too negative here: good luck to them if they think they won't go bankrupt joining an NSD.

That's just like the existing NPL: a re-branding of state-based comps. Although one thing that basketball has in its favour is it's strong in regional centres. NBL1 has viable, popular teams like Ballarat, Mt. Gambier, Devonport, etc. They could very well do with a pro-rel structure, but since the NBL looks to the USA for guidance it probably won't be done.

Just finished reading the report. All I can say is BRAVO. Well done Nick Galatas and the whole team. Kudos to the 32 clubs who paid to have this report eventuate you are owed a debt of gratitude by your members and supporters and all the soccer ecosystem below AL which will reap the rewards should your seed strike fertile ground. Good luck with the FA.
If this competition goes ahead in this form (and I applaud the systematic way you have justified your findings in each criteria and also married intent to the FFA xi white paper findings) In my oppinion it will be more significant for soccer than the NSL launch, the FFA cup launch and the Aleague launches combined... 200+ npl clubs plus who knows how many state and amateur clubs ALL linked to ONE top league through pro/rel....  heaven.

NBL1?

Finally the chance for clubs to enter a Second Div and eventually find their way into the A League-from around 2028...At least this is a start.
The other pro codes don't have Second Div I believe, thats innovative.

Really pleased with the news.
Tbh this is the best case scenario that is actually achievable and viable.
Its a true positive that there isn’t any salary caps so the clubs and leagues can grow naturally to whatever suits their budgets.
If it means some clubs eventually go professional and dominate then so be it.

Sorry not sure how to paste link for full report but there is a link to it press release where the report can be foind on bottom of page http://www.australianfootballclubs.org.au/media-releases.. its where the pyramid pictures above came from, fairly detailed, im just reading through it now but so far so gopd for me. Explains proposed selection process as well as model for funding, broadcasting, travel the works... not one dime from FFA looks like so I guess all JJ has to do now is rubber stamp it and let the selection process begin.....

lol..

Illuminati confirmed.

I think it may also be tied up with expansion. While there is still no real detail on future P&R to the A-League, the Canberra clubs will probably miss out to a Canberra United expansion team. Then where does team 14 come from? If it comes from Tasmania with govt support it would be hard to see another Tas tam make the cut in a 12 team NSD.     


This is basically what we are looking at

Will be interesting to see how the selection process works, and how many spots are allocated to each state.

it will all depend on the bids put forward by those that can meet those funding and facilities requirements, but if they do try and broaden the Spread of clubs, it may leave some hard choices.

i still see it largely being dominated by the NSW, Vic and Qld clubs, with the potential for Canberra, Tasmania , Adelaide and Perth, so this will be interesting to follow what the mix of clubs is in the first group of 12. 

Can’t believe it took almost 15 years to come up with NPL national. 

NATIONAL SECOND DIVISION AFFORDABLE AND FEASIBLE

18/1/2021

Progress Report highlights the feasibility of a national second division, with clubs as the foundation for success
​Establishment of a national second division (NSD) competition is affordable and feasible according to a progress report released today by the Association of Australian Football Clubs (AAFC). 
The progress report, entitled Reshaping Australian Football’s National Second Tier, states that the annual cost of running a NSD is estimated at up to $3.3 million. This includes centralised travel costs, but excludes any potential revenue from an anticipated OTT streaming solution, broadcasting and gaming data, and player transfers. 
In addition to the club participation fee of $200,000 per season, it is estimated that each club would require an annual budget of between $850,000 and $1.6 million – something that the 32 Partner Clubs involved in the interim report view as eminently achievable. 
Under current arrangements, the clubs taking part in the state or regional-based National Premier Leagues require up to $900,000 per season to take part in their competition, depending on their location and the size of the competition. 
Significantly, most clubs already operate numerous teams and have activities and facilities in place and do not require significant, additional infrastructure expenditure.
The single biggest cost to run the competition is travel, and the interim report sets out detailed analysis of the costs involved and how these can be met. 
The report notes that “… Clubs have expressed confidence they can generate additional revenue, especially for the commencement and establishment phases. Principally, this is from being able to offer to sponsors, supporters, and members a new, more exciting product…”.
AAFC believes that a NSD is critical to a re-set of football in Australia because it would provide motivation and inspiration to genuine community clubs to aspire to the highest level of competition possible.
The progress report refers to sentiments expressed by former English Premier League supremo and Advisor to the A-League clubs, Richard Scudamore, that there is nothing as strong in building football culture as home grown loyalty.
“Football clubs have been in Australia since the 1880s and have been built by people from all parts of the world who have all culturally enriched our country,” the progress report states. 
“It is the continuation of these clubs - as strong, vital and ambitious football clubs - which is critical to the development and organic growth of our game.”
The progress report makes it clear that many of the clubs which form the state-based competition structure have had “burdens and restrictions” imposed on them which limit their potential, to the detriment of the whole game.
AAFC believes it is time for a merit-based competition structure to be introduced as meritocracy is both the “Australian way” and occurs in most football competitions around the world.
The interim report, which has been funded by 32 Partner Clubs from around the country with financial analysis undertaken by MI Associates, sets out a timeframe and key performance measures for operation of a NSD that would see the competition commence in 2022, and a women’s NSD introduced by 2025.
Key features of a proposed NSD are:

• A single national competition comprising 12 teams from the outset but expanding to 16 teams as soon as possible, and preferably within the first four years;
• All participating clubs must have grounds that can accommodate a minimum of 3,000 fans;
• Teams to be included based on meeting stringent criteria as the basis for entry, followed by promotion and relegation from lower tiers. There are ten criteria to be met including in the areas of youth development, coaching standards, finance and facilities;
• A $200,000 participation fee from each club; 
• A requirement for participating clubs to have a comprehensive women’s programme in place as a pre-requisite for participation in the NSD;
• No preference for a winter or summer season, but alignment with the ‘Whole of Football’ calendar; and 

• Establishment of a Women’s Football, Marketing, and Youth and Coach Development Steering Committees.

 
It is proposed that the NSD would be overseen by an Advisory Board comprising members of Football Australia and AAFC, supported by the steering committees. 
The next steps involve consultation with key stakeholders in football, principally Football Australia, the state and regional-based member federations, the A-League clubs and other football stakeholders before finalising the report by Easter for presentation to the Football Australia Board.


http://www.australianfootballclubs.org.au/media-releases

"Although it has promised widespread consultation will all relevant stakeholders, ultimately, it is Football Australia that retains control over the introduction of a  of a potential national second division."
Well lets see how long before a decision is made on this...

Those numbers at least look realistic, but I am sure the PFA will have some reservations given their previous comments. 

James Johnson has signalled his openness to the concept of such a competition in the past... The AAFC's report ostensibly now enables further conversations between it and the federation to continue surrounding a key aspect of Football Australia's reservations surrounding the competition's introduction, with Johnson telling ESPN in August 2020Johnson telling ESPN in August 2020 that he had "not seen a document yet ..."

"Ostensibly now enables further conversations"

Along with JJ's "openness" to the concept, geez, this really sounds likes its forging ahead at a rapid rate of knots!

Sounds like a stepping stone from the NPL rather than a stepping stone to the A-League. Small fry attempt but a least a start. It will be a long road before the NSD can provide that professional link to the A-League.

The obvious thing needed, hopefully they get somewhere.

AAFC outlines 'affordable and feasible' plan to introduce national second tier in 2022

playoey LynchAustralia Correspondent

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Joey Lynch

An "affordable and feasible" national second tier that sits below the Australian A-League could be up and running as soon as 2022, a report commissioned by a group of aspiring clubs has found.The Association of Australian Football Clubs (AAFC) -- a representative body of clubs outside the A-League that includes former National Soccer League champions such as Marconi Stallions, Melbourne Knights, South Melbourne, Sydney United, Adelaide City, Brisbane City and Wollongong Wolves -- envisions a 12-team national second division made up of existing National Premier League (NPL) clubs.
Expansion to 16 teams occurring via promotion from the NPL -- on condition of minimum standards being met -- would preferably occur in the first four years and full promotion and relegation between a national second division and existing NPL competitions would commence once a 16-team competition had been reached.
This report is about what our member clubs can contribute to Football Australia in establishing and operating a true national second tier," AAFC chairman Nick Galatas said. "It is about the best possible. Not about a notional 'best' or the merely 'possible.' It identifies the most viable and financially responsible model for a true national second tier to be able to both start and, as importantly, to grow."Initial competitors in the AAFC's vision would be sought from "as wide a geographic spread of team locations in capital cities and larger regional cities" as possible and teams would be selected based on a combination of meeting pre-qualification criteria and a selection process involving competitive matches.The report estimates that the costs of running the league would reach up to $3.3 million, and that participating clubs would, on top of paying a participation fee of $200,000 a season, require an operating budget of between $850,000 and $1.6m.The newly formed Australian second-tier, under the AAFC's template, would be overseen by an advisory board consisting of members from Football Australia, the AAFC, participatory clubs and an independent chair. Standing committees with responsibility for areas such as marketing, player and coach development, women's football and league standards would also be formed. Branding, marketing and commercial matters would be managed centrally by Football Australia.It is envisioned that the national second division's season would align with the A-League's as part of Football Australia's preference for a unified football calendar, however no preference is made between a winter or summer staging.Promotion and relegation between the A-League and a national second division, one of Australian football's most controversial topics, is not a formal feature of the proposal, but remains a medium to long term goal of the AAFC.

Under the group's plans, participatory second-tier clubs would have to possess stadium facilities that can accommodate a minimum of 3,000 fans and meet criteria surrounding their existing teams and youth development to gain access to the competition. Coaching -- coaching staffs would require, at minimum, A-license accreditation -- and governance, finance, facility, organisational structure, member protection, medical and reporting benchmarks would also need to be met.A comprehensive women's and girl's program with a focus on development would also be a prerequisite for any club seeking to participate in the proposed competition, with the AAFC also targeting the introduction of a women's national second division in 2025.With a single, national league preferred over a conference-based alternative, travel is foreseen as the single biggest cost associated with the running of a national second division, with a 12-team, 22-round national competition estimated to hold approximately $1.45m in transportation costs (approx. $120,000 per club) and a 16-team, 30-round competition estimated to require approximately $2.62m (Approx $165,000 per club)."This report advances a national second-tier model, after considering available options, which is financially viable and more importantly, financially responsible," Galatas said. "It is supported by our Partner Group of NPL clubs, which developed it and is available to be deployed by Football Australia for the benefit of the game."Although it has promised widespread consultation will all relevant stakeholders, ultimately, it is Football Australia that retains control over the introduction of a  of a potential national second division.

James Johnson has signalled his openness to the concept of such a competition in the past and highlighted the now completed process of unbundling Australia's professional leagues from his organisation as one of the key yard posts on the journey to its introduction. The AAFC's report ostensibly now enables further conversations between it and the federation to continue surrounding a key aspect of Football Australia's reservations surrounding the competition's introduction, with Johnson telling ESPN in August 2020 that he had "not seen a document, yet, from any stakeholder, that talks about the real practicalities of having a second tier. In particular, talking about the financial sustainability of having such a competition."A finalised version of the AAFC's findings is anticipated for arrival on April 2.

https://www.espn.com.au/football/australian-a-league/story/4290072/aafc-outlines-affordable-and-feasible-plan-to-introduce-national-second-tier-in-2022

LOL playing the old racist card when in fact it is clubs like Hellas that want to keep to their own mono ethnic group and say f@ck the rest of you. Reverse racism.

The point they put up the cash to join is the reason they are in the competition. Pure and simple.

And how exactly did a "club" like WU show their viability to not have to go through the rigmarol of joining a second division and then waiting another 40 ,50 years before being allowed to join the first division. What accountability to the original conditions of their acceptances for a license do they have and to whom? What happens when another 2 years pass with no stadium, then 3 then 4?
There are no structures in soccer here, it's ALL a about the few investors making a buck, thats the point mate. My bitching and moaning on a forum is the absolute least of our worries as foorball fans in this country...

Just as you continue to post constant negativity, with most of it seemingly hoping anything to do with the A League fails, many look on and see such antics and see just how far some go to push agendas. 

Yeah your all probably right. Its just awesome that we will never have an aspirational club environment for soccer in this country.  Instead of wanting this to happen a few of you are actually happy that it probably wont.... just so you can keep the old nsl wogs out.... fuck some of you dopey cun+s would cut off your noses to spite your faces...... sad, racist, vile little idiots.... 

Or may be it just simply doesn’t stack up?

(“with or without the FFA”) LOL

Yeah and it’s the inability for anyone to agree on anything.

There are likely a very disparate set of views on that working group, pushing for things that many won’t stomach, so unless they can come up with a plan that required minimal outlay by FA to get up and running, it won’t go anywhere. 

Too true.
Well they can't do it with FFA now that FFA have become FA.
Maybe they'll have to come up with a new statement and take another 4 years from now.