There's talk that up to 4 clubs from NZ are lining up to join this 2nd division. Could we have a 18 team div2?. With all games shown on Optus or SBS.

Towards the end of the NSL (late 90's to early 2000's) there was a lot of turmoil in clubs. You had your main stayers (Marconi, Olympic, Souths, Brisbane, United, Knights, Wolves, Glory, Adelaide City) but you had a lot of coming and going of clubs around them. Admittedly there was a bit of a push for more clubs one season, and then the league would be over extended and have to shrink back the following season (or two). Plenty of instability towards the end of the NSL era, for many reasons ... the core teams (listed above) were what held it together. I think this is partly why the FFA are a little scared to expand too rapidly (although they should outlay some sort of blueprint regarding time frames for looking at expansion etc. ... transparency and communication are very poor from the FFA on that front, which has led to the unrest we see today).

Luckily paulc set the bar as high as his inteligence, so it's not all that hard to see the bullshit in his 29/42. That makes 13 clubs that survived from that list, according to him.

Adelaide United
Perth Glory
Newcastle United
Brisbane Lions

There's 4 that folded.... folded all the way in to the aleague

Then we have the clubs he has a major personal hardon for - NSL clubs that want to play in the top tier

South Melbourne
Brisbane City
Brisbane Strikers
Wollongong Wolves

Some folding there I see

Then we have other personal hardon clubs - clubs that are ex NSL and own their own stadiums

Sydney United
Marconi
Melbourne Knights.... I can tell you something they folded. Their leases when they bought their own grounds

Then we have some other folded clubs such as:

Heidelberg
Adelaide City

These guys are so folded that they folded HAL teams out of the FFA cup

Fuck me am I having a hard time finding those 29FACT clubs paulc came up with

Off the tops of my head:

Canberra Cosmos
Northern Spirit (who then were reincarnated)
Carlton
Newcastle (had several incarnations)
Parramatta Power (and the Melita Eagles didn't fold but pulled out of the NSL)
West Adelaide
There was a Gippsland team too ... can't remember their name but they folded (looked on Wiki it was Morwell Falcons)

Then there were a few other clubs who pulled out of the NSL (so didn't fold per se but left the NSL because of reasons other than competitiveness)

I noticed that the Wiki page lists some as "relegated", e.g. Parramatta Power. But from my memory I recall them failing financially and having to withdraw from the competition (the leagues club pulled their funding I am pretty sure too). I think a few fell into this boat that are listed as "relegated" on that page.

I can only think of three:

North Queensland
Gold Coast
NZ (Auckland)

You seem to be pretty confident in your opinion and making a big show of yourself. So you go right on ahead PaulC and give us that list of those 29 dead clubs right now.

Go on, we're waiting.

I'll even help you out wanker. Here's the NSL wikipedia page that lists the 42 clubs that contested the NSL in its history. Find us 29 defunct clubs big talker.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Soccer_League

Fact

9 HAL folded in 10 years 

Fact:
29 teams folded during the 27 years of the NSL

The issue with the rules in Australia is consistency across the board.

I don't remember promotion and relegation being part of the NSL during the 1990's?? Pretty much clubs had to hope another club folded (a lot of the time they finished last in their last season too, although the Cosmos had a few seasons at the bottom of the barrel) or that the league was expanded.

The problem on field is when they go up to the NPL, which is inevitable, quality will suffer due to visa rules. Currently they're stacked with visa players where as in the NPL you can only have two in a matchday squad. 

Agree off field they are doing all the right things. I was there a few weekends ago for junior matches and there is an obvious improvement.

so is there anyway to track the developments of fifas meeting here. Unless its a bunch of closed door meetings with no leaking its probably worth its own thread

I'm overseas but curious to follow it. I post here because it might affect prospects for a 2nd division (regardless of the outcome hopefully its a positive for a second division)

In other news did anyone hear Okon's dismissive comments on the quality of the npl? Reminded me of golden generation disparaging the a league*. Really unhelpful, we need the lower divisions to have support



*my favourite was when Man U beat an Aussie club Chipperfield said it was proof that Europe was better than the A league

That last part is key. How can someone judge if something is sustainable if the potential in growth is not factored. Do they even economy, bruh.

There are a lot of ambitious clubs and the opportunity for promotion drives investment at these clubs which then forces other cubs to also invest, all the way down to grass roots. This lifts the standards of facilities, operations, coaches, etc and is a huge benefit for the game.

Say what you will about the NSL, but a a semi-pro league with very limited resources, many of the clubs invested heavily in stadiums, facilities, coaches etc during its time, not just with NSL teams, but also aspirational clubs at lower levels which knew there was a pathway into the top tier. .With the demise of the NSL and the introduction of the "closed-shop" HAL,  much of this investment has stopped and many of the clubs have just tread water or gone backwards, as has player development. 

This investment & improvement of standards is an often overlooked benefit of P/R, which is why it is more important for Aus Football than the "entertainment" factor it could provide to the stale HAL.

I don't see Magic dropping it but they have dropped a lot of crucial points of late. That Geelong match was a disaster. Great crowd in for that one too.

Magic suffered a huge 4-0 loss to second place Geelong SC on the weekend, which makes this promotion to NPL chase much more interesting now. Magic are 5 points up on Geelong (who have a game in hand) with 4 rounds to go. Geelong play last placed Altona East twice in their remaining 5 games, other than that their runs home are fairly similar.
Magic play 4th, 7th, 8th & 9th. Geelong play 3rd, 6th, 9th, 12th, 12th.  

There are non-negotiable terms in the NPL as set by FFA.
But you are correct in regards to the issue of investment by Clubs down to State League 3.

Altona Magic has invested heavily. They have spent a lot of money on their squad, lights, stadia and broadcasting. They have been pushing an average of 200 viewers (10k) concurrently and are looking a lot better than NPL1 sides.

NPL is a requirement of FFA, but is managed & run by state feds so they can set rules as they like. A few years ago when FFV was run by "professional administrators" they tried to set up NPL Franchise system (similar to HAL) and it ended up in court. Now there is a football person in charge, FFV has introduced P/R from NPL to State League's from this year onward's. and impact is massive, have heard of SL3 teams investing to try & crack into NPL in next few years.

NPL has no promotion up and clubs are hindered by FFA rules eg Playstation advertising. They also have to pay fees to their states. 

Breaking away is only one path. 

With no P&R, hmmmmmm

Looks like our mates at Brisbane City joined

QUEENSLAND 

FFA stated they would not help which was expected.

If they don't sanction the league I think clubs should create a rebel league. It would also make a mockery of the FFA Cup.

P&R between Div 2 and 3 could and should start immediately. If teams in Div 2 become stronger than A League then good. The A-League needs 16 strong teams and this will save the FFA alot of work.
Where's the problem.
Also if a Div 2 team draws huge support they can also go up. Again solving our problem and making the A-League stronger.
Let's hope we get these problems because we need them.

Thanks man I have read up a lot about it and things have been coming to a head of late in the US as well.

Fk that guy. And fk his (soon to not be his own) club (anymore).

#FreeTheIP

@rbb

That's because they can't create 20 new franchises. They want possession of ips.

That's why we end up with people like the guy in Brisbane. He and his club have sold out and rebranded to get in AL. They talk about history but give up their identity so FFA can own ip.

Brisbane City have not joined AAFC because FC Brisbane City are in. They don't support local football either.

The leagues have to santioned div 1 and div 2 by the FFA.

If you haven't already I suggest reading about the NASL. They tried (trying) to challenge the MLS for the div 1 title but it's a rocky road. I beleiev they ditched things like the cap but they just don't have the money to compete and the clubs are pushing themselves to breaking point. But it's interesting

The FFA don't get it. They don't understand that the value or what drives football is promotion/relegation. Rather they are worried about what team will be relegated and think they will lose something with that happening. 

We put 10 teams on a pedestal. Football has the chance to have ca 30 over 2 divisions.

Just the chance to play in the A-League will get clubs known.