NPL has no promotion up and clubs are hindered by FFA rules eg Playstation advertising. They also have to pay fees to their states. 

Breaking away is only one path. 

NPL is a requirement of FFA, but is managed & run by state feds so they can set rules as they like. A few years ago when FFV was run by "professional administrators" they tried to set up NPL Franchise system (similar to HAL) and it ended up in court. Now there is a football person in charge, FFV has introduced P/R from NPL to State League's from this year onward's. and impact is massive, have heard of SL3 teams investing to try & crack into NPL in next few years.

Altona Magic has invested heavily. They have spent a lot of money on their squad, lights, stadia and broadcasting. They have been pushing an average of 200 viewers (10k) concurrently and are looking a lot better than NPL1 sides.

There are non-negotiable terms in the NPL as set by FFA.
But you are correct in regards to the issue of investment by Clubs down to State League 3.

Magic suffered a huge 4-0 loss to second place Geelong SC on the weekend, which makes this promotion to NPL chase much more interesting now. Magic are 5 points up on Geelong (who have a game in hand) with 4 rounds to go. Geelong play last placed Altona East twice in their remaining 5 games, other than that their runs home are fairly similar.
Magic play 4th, 7th, 8th & 9th. Geelong play 3rd, 6th, 9th, 12th, 12th.  

I don't see Magic dropping it but they have dropped a lot of crucial points of late. That Geelong match was a disaster. Great crowd in for that one too.

There are a lot of ambitious clubs and the opportunity for promotion drives investment at these clubs which then forces other cubs to also invest, all the way down to grass roots. This lifts the standards of facilities, operations, coaches, etc and is a huge benefit for the game.

Say what you will about the NSL, but a a semi-pro league with very limited resources, many of the clubs invested heavily in stadiums, facilities, coaches etc during its time, not just with NSL teams, but also aspirational clubs at lower levels which knew there was a pathway into the top tier. .With the demise of the NSL and the introduction of the "closed-shop" HAL,  much of this investment has stopped and many of the clubs have just tread water or gone backwards, as has player development. 

This investment & improvement of standards is an often overlooked benefit of P/R, which is why it is more important for Aus Football than the "entertainment" factor it could provide to the stale HAL.

That last part is key. How can someone judge if something is sustainable if the potential in growth is not factored. Do they even economy, bruh.

so is there anyway to track the developments of fifas meeting here. Unless its a bunch of closed door meetings with no leaking its probably worth its own thread

I'm overseas but curious to follow it. I post here because it might affect prospects for a 2nd division (regardless of the outcome hopefully its a positive for a second division)

In other news did anyone hear Okon's dismissive comments on the quality of the npl? Reminded me of golden generation disparaging the a league*. Really unhelpful, we need the lower divisions to have support



*my favourite was when Man U beat an Aussie club Chipperfield said it was proof that Europe was better than the A league

The problem on field is when they go up to the NPL, which is inevitable, quality will suffer due to visa rules. Currently they're stacked with visa players where as in the NPL you can only have two in a matchday squad. 

Agree off field they are doing all the right things. I was there a few weekends ago for junior matches and there is an obvious improvement.

I don't remember promotion and relegation being part of the NSL during the 1990's?? Pretty much clubs had to hope another club folded (a lot of the time they finished last in their last season too, although the Cosmos had a few seasons at the bottom of the barrel) or that the league was expanded.

The issue with the rules in Australia is consistency across the board.

Fact:
29 teams folded during the 27 years of the NSL

Fact

9 HAL folded in 10 years 

You seem to be pretty confident in your opinion and making a big show of yourself. So you go right on ahead PaulC and give us that list of those 29 dead clubs right now.

Go on, we're waiting.

I'll even help you out wanker. Here's the NSL wikipedia page that lists the 42 clubs that contested the NSL in its history. Find us 29 defunct clubs big talker.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Soccer_League

I can only think of three:

North Queensland
Gold Coast
NZ (Auckland)

Off the tops of my head:

Canberra Cosmos
Northern Spirit (who then were reincarnated)
Carlton
Newcastle (had several incarnations)
Parramatta Power (and the Melita Eagles didn't fold but pulled out of the NSL)
West Adelaide
There was a Gippsland team too ... can't remember their name but they folded (looked on Wiki it was Morwell Falcons)

Then there were a few other clubs who pulled out of the NSL (so didn't fold per se but left the NSL because of reasons other than competitiveness)

I noticed that the Wiki page lists some as "relegated", e.g. Parramatta Power. But from my memory I recall them failing financially and having to withdraw from the competition (the leagues club pulled their funding I am pretty sure too). I think a few fell into this boat that are listed as "relegated" on that page.

Luckily paulc set the bar as high as his inteligence, so it's not all that hard to see the bullshit in his 29/42. That makes 13 clubs that survived from that list, according to him.

Adelaide United
Perth Glory
Newcastle United
Brisbane Lions

There's 4 that folded.... folded all the way in to the aleague

Then we have the clubs he has a major personal hardon for - NSL clubs that want to play in the top tier

South Melbourne
Brisbane City
Brisbane Strikers
Wollongong Wolves

Some folding there I see

Then we have other personal hardon clubs - clubs that are ex NSL and own their own stadiums

Sydney United
Marconi
Melbourne Knights.... I can tell you something they folded. Their leases when they bought their own grounds

Then we have some other folded clubs such as:

Heidelberg
Adelaide City

These guys are so folded that they folded HAL teams out of the FFA cup

Fuck me am I having a hard time finding those 29FACT clubs paulc came up with

Towards the end of the NSL (late 90's to early 2000's) there was a lot of turmoil in clubs. You had your main stayers (Marconi, Olympic, Souths, Brisbane, United, Knights, Wolves, Glory, Adelaide City) but you had a lot of coming and going of clubs around them. Admittedly there was a bit of a push for more clubs one season, and then the league would be over extended and have to shrink back the following season (or two). Plenty of instability towards the end of the NSL era, for many reasons ... the core teams (listed above) were what held it together. I think this is partly why the FFA are a little scared to expand too rapidly (although they should outlay some sort of blueprint regarding time frames for looking at expansion etc. ... transparency and communication are very poor from the FFA on that front, which has led to the unrest we see today).

There's talk that up to 4 clubs from NZ are lining up to join this 2nd division. Could we have a 18 team div2?. With all games shown on Optus or SBS.

Heart
Roar
Jets 
Adelaide

Some more than once. 

I wouldn't say a change of ownership is folding. The clubs continued to participate in the A-League throughout.

That these clubs in some of Australia's largest financial markets have struggled probably only furthers the argument of FFA that a second division (expansion) isn't viable in Australia.

Oh and btw west Adelaide aren't defunct. Try again.

We have 11 defunct nsl teams over a 27 year period.
We have 3 defunct a-league teams over a 10 year period.

Out of 42 teams to ever play in nsl 11 went broke... 26% of clubs
Out of 13 teams to ever play in a-league, 3 went broke.. 24% of clubs.

Only a 2% difference in viablitly of clubs in the league over 20 years.... yet $3 million per club compared to a couple thousand per club 20 years ago... and the league has only increased in viability by 2%...


The a-league is no different to the NSL on paper... the money is. And when you open the doors to the league, investment will be at its peak in all tiers of football.

I have no comeback

The clubs have struggled in a system designed to make them struggle.. you know, so they don't get too powerful and start challenging for the keys to the kingdom. FFA take profits from every sector a club can make a profit in, to slowly bleed them dry, and keep them surviving, but barely floating. While the FFA pump millions into their coffers... free up the league, watch these clubs become self sufficient.

The problem is with the FFA here, it's the A-league that's paying the FFAS wages, not the FFA paying the a-leagues wages.

I personally think a second division and expansion are viable, we just have to be willing to accept there will be some attrition along the way and that we may have to accept less for more (or a lower quality for more content if you prefer ... at least in the short term). The FFA don't want to take these risks.

My main point is that these arguments about the NSL vs A-League (in regards to teams folding) are silly. I was around during the 90's and 2000's to watch and support the NSL, but the A-League is a much improved product (still plenty to work on but a definite improvement). There was a lot of instability in the NSL during this time ... you didn't need to be a rocket scientist to work that out. The instability came from Soccer Australia, self-interest of state bodies / clubs and a niche market. These are three of the big things that the FFA and A-League set about rectifying. I personally think they have done that to a large degree (still some financial instability, but I think that is more down to the clubs hands being tied to a degree).

The problem now seems to be that FFA are unwilling to let another drive the A-League (a fear of their "baby" going down the route of failure). But sometimes you need to let what you love be set free ...

This really is great news.Not only have they had the chance to discuss it with FFA they had AFC & FIFA as witnesses.

I will wait and see what happens. Expecting some bullshit " yeah we love it but we cant because of sponsorship deals"

Fantastic. Absolutely fantastic.

FACT: there are no 29 defunct clubs from the NSL