National second division is kicking off with or without FFA


National second division is kicking off with or without FFA

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RoyalDave
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AyyLeague - 24 Feb 2022 8:00 PM
Which teams are likely to be part of the inaugural season? How will that be decided?

A good question.
There's 30 or so partner clubs yet only 12 will initially get the nod - and it might well be the case that not all of them want to be there at the start as it will be an expensive exercise, especially for clubs that operate on lower budgets - eg WA clubs run on nothing compared to NSW/VIC.
Criteria will be applied against applications and they may well also focus on a geographic spread to get started - so some NSL titans might miss out to allow WA and TAS sides in for example - but that's just a guess. Personally I think its important to grant initial applications from as far and wide as possible to attract the most public interest - it may be a little unfair but we need to give this the best start possible.

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I'd like to see all the premiers in Australia get together and wear hard hats around a construction site and do a Village People routine. 
That would be great. Hey hows the second division going? Anything new, Remote Control do you have any input?
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Which teams are likely to be part of the inaugural season? How will that be decided?

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Remote Control - 23 Feb 2022 5:40 PM
so  JJ  & FA   want   some    cup- type   "second  tier "  thingy ,  while   the  AAFC  want   an   actual   proper   NSD  ?

JJ wants what the sheikh tells him he wants.. Just like Lowy obeyed his master ...Satan..
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LFC. - 23 Feb 2022 5:23 PM
its no point talking numbers - let it begin and lets see as time goes by.
Besides they'll copy paste whatever you say MSC waiting for the kill lol.....

Hahahahahah aint that the truth mate...... hahaha you made me laugh..... Just hanging to get this started, Lambert Park  2023,  Round One Feb 18th APIA v South ---- LESS THAN A YEAR TO GO BROTHER ....WOOOOOHOOOOOOO
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so  JJ  & FA   want   some    cup- type   "second  tier "  thingy ,  while   the  AAFC  want   an   actual   proper   NSD  ?
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its no point talking numbers - let it begin and lets see as time goes by.
Besides they'll copy paste whatever you say MSC waiting for the kill lol.....


Love Football

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numklpkgulftumch - 23 Feb 2022 4:51 PM
Footballking55 - 23 Feb 2022 3:01 PM


It's a 7 year to Maturity project according to the report

I can pretty much guarantee that there will not be a sugar hit right from the start, at least not a massive one anyway. Alot of the ex NSL clubs will be panned mercilessly by the plastic franchise aficionados for the low crowds (payback for 17 years I guess) but if it is small and steady and sustainable and as you say has a growth plan in place it will be better than ANYTHING we have ever had. Bigger clubs could expect 5-6K crowds while smaller ones maybe no more than 1-2K --- better than the Isuzu trucks commercial-a-thon I reackon :)
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Footballking55 - 23 Feb 2022 3:01 PM
Monoethnic Social Club - 23 Feb 2022 2:00 PM

The problem is that there is an expectation of a sugar hit right from the start, and that multitudes will flock through the gates the minute the NSD starts. It should be a ten year project, and this would suggest that it should be existing clubs that form the bulk of the teams.


It's a 7 year to Maturity project according to the report

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thekingmb - 23 Feb 2022 12:23 PM
Will these NPL NSD garner new support or continue to get 300 people per game? I don't really see any existing clubs having big support apart from hellas.

Fair question and without putting the chicken before the egg.......

Look at the Clubs throwing the hat in the ring gives you enough idea.
The potential for the ol known NSL Clubs obviously have the best opportunity to grow not just SMH.
Marconi/APIA/SU/SUNS/SO/Wolves/MK to name a few........
New support will come from attracting back many who gave it away and their next gens who many are playing their local football in turn think before going out lets catch up on the NSD game tonight.
Sure there is alot of work to do by the Clubs, all of them they know that.
Like every comp there will be well supported ones - the soso and the strugglers.
Thats sport.
You also got to crawl before you can walk, footballking55 agreed, 10yr plan at least and tweak as things progress.


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Footballking55 - 23 Feb 2022 3:01 PM
Monoethnic Social Club - 23 Feb 2022 2:00 PM

The problem is that there is an expectation of a sugar hit right from the start, and that multitudes will flock through the gates the minute the NSD starts. It should be a ten year project, and this would suggest that it should be existing clubs that form the bulk of the teams.

There is a graduated plan in place - which I don't doubt will accordingly be adjusted over time - particularly the bit about P/R to A League.
The "other" clubs mentioned already "exist" just haven't been in the NSL before - and some might be better placed (ie cashed up) to join now.
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Monoethnic Social Club - 23 Feb 2022 2:00 PM
thekingmb - 23 Feb 2022 12:23 PM

Will never ever know unless they try it.... Sure the old NSL clubs would have a head start but these "other" clubs putting up their hands would have at least the ability to now market themselves on a national stage and appeal a little bit more to their own footballing communities... It will probably never be a tsunami of immense popularity but could be a good organic and true football ecosystem for once in this country... what is there to lose?

The problem is that there is an expectation of a sugar hit right from the start, and that multitudes will flock through the gates the minute the NSD starts. It should be a ten year project, and this would suggest that it should be existing clubs that form the bulk of the teams.
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thekingmb - 23 Feb 2022 12:23 PM
Will these NPL NSD garner new support or continue to get 300 people per game? I don't really see any existing clubs having big support apart from hellas.

Will never ever know unless they try it.... Sure the old NSL clubs would have a head start but these "other" clubs putting up their hands would have at least the ability to now market themselves on a national stage and appeal a little bit more to their own footballing communities... It will probably never be a tsunami of immense popularity but could be a good organic and true football ecosystem for once in this country... what is there to lose?
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TheDjentleman - 23 Feb 2022 1:43 PM
Does this mean dynamic promotion-relegation? :O

You'll also be low-key rooting for NSD teams from your state to stay up so it doesn't trickle down double relegation spots etc.

Likewise for the NPL promotion playoffs you'll want your state to push up so more promotion spots in the lower leagues - Could be cool!

Absolutely.... would benefit State 1 clubs as much as NPL 1..... a true pyramid :)
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Does this mean dynamic promotion-relegation? :O

You'll also be low-key rooting for NSD teams from your state to stay up so it doesn't trickle down double relegation spots etc.

Likewise for the NPL promotion playoffs you'll want your state to push up so more promotion spots in the lower leagues - Could be cool!


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Monoethnic Social Club - 23 Feb 2022 12:12 PM
RoyalDave - 23 Feb 2022 11:08 AM

AAFC is proposing that the end of year NPL finals series work as the defacto promotion "playoff" to NSD which makes sense to me. They suggest for the first 3 seasons only one club relegation from NSD (to its original member NPL) and then 2 x teams promoted per year which I would imagine would be the two grand final teams in the NPL national finals series... This may get messy with having odd number of teams in both NSD and the state NPL below it that the relegated team goes to so I hope they work on this a bit more.[
/quote]

Only messy for the NSD in Season 2 & 4

NPLs that get effected may have an additional Promotion spot available to even up.


Edited
3 Years Ago by numklpkgulftumch
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Will these NPL NSD garner new support or continue to get 300 people per game? I don't really see any existing clubs having big support apart from hellas.
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RoyalDave - 23 Feb 2022 11:08 AM
Monoethnic Social Club - 23 Feb 2022 10:51 AM

numklpkgulftumch - 23 Feb 2022 10:38 AM

I may have missed it, but was there any discussion on how future promotion into the NSD would work? 
Would they do it geographically, ie a WA team drops out so they promote the NPLWA champions?
Or a play-off system between all NPL champions who desire/meet criteria to be promoted? Actually this could replace the current 'champions cup' thing we have at the end of the season so don't see an issue there.






AAFC is proposing that the end of year NPL finals series work as the defacto promotion "playoff" to NSD which makes sense to me. They suggest for the first 3 seasons only one club relegation from NSD (to its original member NPL) and then 2 x teams promoted per year which I would imagine would be the two grand final teams in the NPL national finals series... This may get messy with having odd number of teams in both NSD and the state NPL below it that the relegated team goes to so I hope they work on this a bit more. I would prefer (personally) 2 clubs promoted for the first 3 years until 16 clubs in NSD and then 1 up 1 down or 2 up 2 down whichever moving forward.

This would also be the best way to integrate the Aleague franchises into a real competition (rather than trying to get a link between APL set up). Aleague clubs already have NPL squads in the pyramid (although slotted in unfairly over time) and when the APL finally gives up the ghost the transition for the Aleague clubs should be seamless :)
*They may want to organise their stadums to be built first though.... clocks ticking WU. hahahahahahah
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RoyalDave - 23 Feb 2022 11:08 AM
Monoethnic Social Club - 23 Feb 2022 10:51 AM

numklpkgulftumch - 23 Feb 2022 10:38 AM

I may have missed it, but was there any discussion on how future promotion into the NSD would work? 
Would they do it geographically, ie a WA team drops out so they promote the NPLWA champions?
Or a play-off system between all NPL champions who desire/meet criteria to be promoted?

Relegated teams drop into their NPL

Teams who meet pre-qualifying criteria playoff for Promotion

Page 25    6.3 P&R


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Monoethnic Social Club - 23 Feb 2022 10:51 AM
numklpkgulftumch - 23 Feb 2022 10:38 AM

This, very much this......  link to NPLs from the get go...... 
If 12-16 club home and away season plus finals implemented will do wonders for the aspiration nature of football clubs in our country.
For example NPL Vic clubs are already putting their hands up to host WWC23 squads as training venues... Facilities WILL be improved and government grants WILL be obtained if there is a valid case for it.... 
  https://twitter.com/footballvic/status/1496255707917828103?cxt=HHwWjoC-ufGo4sMpAAAA
Wish the Victorian Aleague clubs could offer up the same facilites but ..... meh they have other priorities I guess?

Likewise Floreat Athena currently working with federal funds and the local council to build new club changerooms which will enable them to host WWC23 squad. 
However I don't think Perth Glory have yet put one dollar into football infrastructure over here? Still homeless after 25 years.

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Monoethnic Social Club - 23 Feb 2022 10:51 AM
numklpkgulftumch - 23 Feb 2022 10:38 AM

This, very much this......  link to NPLs from the get go...... 
If 12-16 club home and away season plus finals implemented will do wonders for the aspiration nature of football clubs in our country.
For example NPL Vic clubs are already putting their hands up to host WWC23 squads as training venues... Facilities WILL be improved and government grants WILL be obtained if there is a valid case for it.... 
  https://twitter.com/footballvic/status/1496255707917828103?cxt=HHwWjoC-ufGo4sMpAAAA
Wish the Victorian Aleague clubs could offer up the same facilites but ..... meh they have other priorities I guess?

numklpkgulftumch - 23 Feb 2022 10:38 AM
df1982 - 23 Feb 2022 3:32 AM

It seems to be assuming team participation based on National population spread  page 24

This would just be the starting 12, as from then on, P&R will dictate the make up.

I may have missed it, but was there any discussion on how future promotion into the NSD would work? 
Would they do it geographically, ie a WA team drops out so they promote the NPLWA champions?
Or a play-off system between all NPL champions who desire/meet criteria to be promoted? Actually this could replace the current 'champions cup' thing we have at the end of the season so don't see an issue there.






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numklpkgulftumch - 23 Feb 2022 10:38 AM
df1982 - 23 Feb 2022 3:32 AM

It seems to be assuming team participation based on National population spread  page 24

This would just be the starting 12, as from then on, P&R will dictate the make up.

This, very much this......  link to NPLs from the get go...... 
If 12-16 club home and away season plus finals implemented will do wonders for the aspiration nature of football clubs in our country.
For example NPL Vic clubs are already putting their hands up to host WWC23 squads as training venues... Facilities WILL be improved and government grants WILL be obtained if there is a valid case for it.... 
  https://twitter.com/footballvic/status/1496255707917828103?cxt=HHwWjoC-ufGo4sMpAAAA
Wish the Victorian Aleague clubs could offer up the same facilites but ..... meh they have other priorities I guess?
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RoyalDave - 23 Feb 2022 9:27 AM
simione001 - 23 Feb 2022 8:32 AM

If accepted the gap between NPL and A League, which the report does well to describe, will never be bridged.


WSW and Brisbane have already bridged it

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df1982 - 23 Feb 2022 3:32 AM
numklpkgulftumch - 22 Feb 2022 6:02 PM

That figure seems to include a bunch of pre-season games, since a 12-team, 22-round seasons would be 144 games (plus finals), and a 16-team, 30-round season would be 240 games (plus finals). So the travel costs of the league itself would be lower, and realistically teams could just play local pre-season matches.

Would also obviously vary depending on which teams make it in, e.g. do you include teams from Perth despite the massive extra costs involved.

It seems to be assuming team participation based on National population spread  page 24

This would just be the starting 12, as from then on, P&R will dictate the make up.

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simione001 - 23 Feb 2022 8:32 AM
The proposed Champions League format put forward by Football Australia is a joke. This is essentially a cup competition and is not fit for purpose.

Added to which, if the proposed format included in the AAFC report were to actually adopted, it would put a huge number of NPL matches in midweek (since they would be moved to accommodate "Champions League" matches on the weekend), which would be a considerable sacrifice, especially for part-time players who have to work during the week. Absolutely dumb.

It won't be adopted though, since the clubs are pretty uniformly against it. they've made their views clear so FA would be beating a dead horse if they actually tried to implement it.
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simione001 - 23 Feb 2022 8:32 AM
The proposed Champions League format put forward by Football Australia is a joke. This is essentially a cup competition and is not fit for purpose.

If accepted the gap between NPL and A League, which the report does well to describe, will never be bridged.


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df1982 - 23 Feb 2022 3:32 AM
numklpkgulftumch - 22 Feb 2022 6:02 PM

That figure seems to include a bunch of pre-season games, since a 12-team, 22-round seasons would be 144 games (plus finals), and a 16-team, 30-round season would be 240 games (plus finals). So the travel costs of the league itself would be lower, and realistically teams could just play local pre-season matches.

Would also obviously vary depending on which teams make it in, e.g. do you include teams from Perth despite the massive extra costs involved.

If the report is to be believed, it continuously says the intention of the NSD is to encompass the whole geography of Australia.
Also it doesn't matter whether or not model A, B or C is adopted - all potentially involve teams from all states.
Projected travel costs would have taken this into account and this is what has been presented. Taking Perth out of the picture demeans the concept from the start - the attractiveness of this report is that it allows ANY state league club in the country to dream of one day being on the national scene.
Of course if applications from WA teams for the initial season are rejected we can see the real picture here ...


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The proposed Champions League format put forward by Football Australia is a joke. This is essentially a cup competition and is not fit for purpose.

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numklpkgulftumch - 22 Feb 2022 6:02 PM
$121k travel - 12 team comp - 184 games

$164k travel - 16 team comp -  310 games

That figure seems to include a bunch of pre-season games, since a 12-team, 22-round seasons would be 144 games (plus finals), and a 16-team, 30-round season would be 240 games (plus finals). So the travel costs of the league itself would be lower, and realistically teams could just play local pre-season matches.

Would also obviously vary depending on which teams make it in, e.g. do you include teams from Perth despite the massive extra costs involved.
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A NSD will enviograte the footbal code in this country, plus the FA can adopt the APL model of adds during the new concept of drinks breaks when it is 23 degrees, think of all the new revenue streams! Europe may well adopt this innovation because it doesn't have to be very hot in order to have the drinks breaks. Infact, stuff the players, this isn't about their hydration, it's about sporting adds in any given opportunity. Now students remember what Steven Lowy said about being careful about something....
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