I don't mind they want a women's league but only if it isn't linked to a condition of entry for the men's league.

So that's a spend of at least $80 million per year across all those clubs.  Revenues - let's be generous... $20 million?  So who is going to write the cheques?

I'd like the see enough funding come from FFA to cover transport on a club by club basis. FFA pays out an average travel allowance, Clubs submit travel costs for the year with receipts, FFA audit(?) it and pay out extra accordingly to each club if needed. Clubs could potentially have to pay money back if costs come in under.

To be honest that's a best case scenario of what I'd expect out of FFA if you ask me.

Anyone want to take a stab at what that would roughly cost?

This is the sort of petty bickering that holds our sport back. You would seriously deny a well resourced club from effectively playing in the top 2 divisions over politics? That's exactly the crap we need to be putting behind us.

@boh

Actually one thing I disagree with AAFC on is that they want to exclude new clubs. At least I hope this only a measure for setting up a league.

I don't think we will ever have too many clubs and that new clubs should be welcomed... Especially if they are willing to pay the expenses.

I really want them in. I am just angry at comments made by their CEO. I want him to come to the conclusion on his own. For this to happen they need to be rejected and join the AAFC. 

This is a hard question to answer and one that will be answered in time. Its one thing to point to costs but the benefits must also be shown to balance. This question will most likely be answered on a club to club basis rather than a league basis. 

Semi-pro second division won't work: PFA

Lol

Of course they don't like it, they won't represent players if it isn't professional...

The PFA model is stupid, just add teams to AL instead.

It's in the PFA's interest to have it fully proffesional but unless the numbers stack up there's no use having it for 3 seasons before it all falls apart and teams cant afford it.

Can't stand the PFA. They seriously want the second division to begin costing more than what they A-League cost to start? Ridiculous. 

Fuck the PFA. They wont rest until they have a fully pro pyramid down to state 6 vic. 

Can eat a bag of dicks as far as im concerned. You are paid your worth. 

This time it will be the PFA holding Aussie football back.

If there was no salary cap/floor there would be no need for the PFA.

Well this is one of the flawed parts of our "franchise model",  there should be basic minimums in any agreement with the PFA that covers things like medical expenses, insurance etc etc. Everything else including pay packets and salaries can be worked out between the clubs, the players and their agents. I believe there should be a minimum salary but in this environment I wouldn't expect many players to be on it. The most pressing and urgent need to is to get rid of this salary floor and cap. Its killing clubs and their ability to retain players. 

In regards to the PFA plans I agree with them in one sense, this new 2nd tier needs to be of a high standard. It should be aimed at clubs who eventually see themselves going into the A-league. That means that if a club in the A-league is spending 7-10M then I would expect the budget of the best 2nd tier clubs to be about 2.5 - 4M. If we don't try and attempt to lift the standards high enough then don't even bother trying to have a 2nd tier. We are looking for an EXTRA layer of professional football. If you are talking about a semi-pro environment then I cant see it working. It will just be a re-badge of the NPL. 

But you need to take the right steps in the right order. The next step is national NPL.

FFA haven't released criteria and admit they have a broken model so all numbers are speculation.

True, however there isnt the luxury of start up capital (or support from the FFA).Therefore in the early stages semi pro may be the only way it works until it slowly grows. You will still have some fully professional teams in a second div. South, Wollongong, etc

The PFA stance ruffled a few feathers then lol, personally I wouldn't take too cynical a view on what they've said - RBB sums it up well .... Division 2 should be something that lifts standards significantly and not merely be a national version of the NPL. If owners and members aren't to shell out millions to cover losses then revenue from tv, sponsorship and crowds must be significant.

The lack of start-up capital is an issue but the money is available within the professional game. The HAL reportedly raises $75-$80m per year which the owners say is underdone and should be $90m+ if a more aggresive commercial approach is taken.

If this is the case then $60m can be given to the HAL clubs meeting their needs, $20m to the FFA which is more than enough for, err, doing nothing now, leaving $10m to fund a second division which is a lot. And the member owned clubs will actually have real financial clout (someone like Lions with 22,000 members and a poker clubhouse would have real financial clout - I mention them as an example only as I'm sure there's others).

The fear might be that a gap opens up between Div2 and NPL, but that's a necessary evil in professionalism.

It will move the NPL from 9 conferences to 1. Players will have a pathway. I don;'t see why you can't understand the difference in culling talent.

It's obvious that most of us see the benefit of a national second division, but what that looks like is where the debate lies.  

My opinion is that the AAFC and PFA are talking about different things, and there's a way to reconcile them.  The PFA model (fully professional Div 2) should include only fully professional clubs (not necessarily to the same level as A-League clubs) and those that have ambitions of reaching the A-League.  The AAFC model (semi-pro/pro) should become Div 3, and without a salary cap or floor it's up to the clubs to decide what level of professionalism they adopt.  Once pro/rel is introduced between them, each club will find the level that suits them.

There are some good reasons that the 2nd Div should be fully professional.  But if the FFA and PFA can't get it organised, the AAFC should absolutely push forward with their model in the interim.  There's no reason a Div 2 can't be implemented based on the AAFC model, only to have it pushed to Div 3 when the PFA's professional model is introduced a couple of years later, with some of those clubs moving into the professional environment.

We haven't even got a second div yet and people are talking as if a third div is around the corner.

I also dont think the second div will start off fully pro. I think it will simply cost too much. 

Ans it shouldnt have to be pro.

Ambitious maybe, but I think we need both and there's no reason it shouldn't be look at.

In fact, the implementation works better if we have both a Div 2 and Div 3. I won't link my blog post again, but I've explained my opinion in (a lot of) detail if you want to read it.

At the very least we could eliminate the smaller federations and combine them with others, like Tasmania, ACT and NNSW.

I think the idea of the PFA giving advice on club budgets to run a second Div is laughable.
In a world where money is no problem ,sure it makes sense that Div2,Div3 etc are fully professional leagues.But of that is the only way forward we could never see a second division.
Revenue has to match expenditure and unless someone is going to fund a second div with money to cover a significant player budgets for each club ,then a compromise has to be made.
Compared to HAL clubs,there will be savings by ensuring clubs have their own grounds and can this make profits from ticket sales.There will be savings by having much smaller player budgets.Let's say half those of the HAL clubs.
Travel costs will be harder to cut,because squad sizes would be similar.Although you would expect smaller entourages amd maybe budget accommodation .
The PFA has kyboshed the idea of a semiprofessional league,but in reality this would be most likely, unless media revenue was above expectations.This is because if you had a budget of say 1.0 mill per team,with 23 players,that averages out to around 40k per player.With some players paid more and some less,it means lots of players will need real jobs in some form.Hence semi professional league.
That's why i believe it's important to try and get some synergies between HAL clubs and Div2 clubs,with players loaned to DIV2 clubs to decrease salary pressure.but to give HAL squad players game time in Div2.
The same goes with a Div2 amd Div3.
This is where FFA should be leading but where they are a massive fail.
FFA could with the support of all clubs set up three tiers of football,with loaning of players between clubs ,scheduling and cross promotion to complement each division and doing deals with service providers such as travel companies to get good deals for everyone.
As we have it ,everyone is competing with each other and we have the dire sitution we are in.

I still believe that there is room for 2 New Zealand clubs to join the 2nd Division, One from Christchurch the other from Auckland. The benefits out weigh the cons.

I commend your commitment.

Trying far too hard.

Liverpool great Luis Garcia backs calls for national second division

Liverpool great Luis Garcia at Glenelg Golf Club, where he and other legends enjoyed a round. Picture: Sarah Reed
Liverpool great Luis Garcia at Glenelg Golf Club, where he and other legends enjoyed a round. Picture: Sarah Reed
UEFA Champions League winner Luis Garcia says the A-League needs a second division to help more Australian youngsters fulfil their potential.

The Liverpool great also said clubs should take a more hands-on approach in developing talented players from the age of seven.

Garcia’s comments came a week on from the inaugural board meeting of the Association of Australian Football Clubs, an independent body working on a model for a national second tier.

The Spaniard, who had a 10-game stint with Central Coast Mariners last year, urged Football Federation Australia to turn the vision into a reality.

“It’s the next step,” Garcia, 39, said.

“Now that the (A-League) competition is already set with the teams they’ve got, they need to improve on that.

“The players that are 18, 19 or 20 years old could develop in a second division and that will make them better players, not just playing a few friendly games.

“It will also make the teams in the first division improve and try to do better, because right now there is no relegation and no promotion, just a winner.”

Garcia was in town to play in tonight’s Battle of the Reds legends tournament at Adelaide Arena.

The winger has a love of Australia borne out of regular visits as a Liverpool ambassador and his four-month spell as a Mariners player during the 2015/16 campaign.


Luis Garcia celebrates his winning goal against Chelsea in the 2005 UEFA Champions League semi-final. Picture: Laurence Griffiths/Getty Images
While impressed by the standard of the A-League, Garcia said clubs at all levels needed to devote more resources to children taking their first steps in the game.

“The most important thing is that the young kids start having the passion for football,” said Garcia, a graduate of Barcelona’s famed La Masia youth academy.

“A lot of young players start playing football at school, but they are not training three or four times a week.

“I’ve got kids back home (in Spain) where they train three times a week and they are only seven and eight years old.

“That’s what has to happen here in Australia.”

Garcia will line up in the indoor five-a-side event for a Liverpool legends side featuring former teammates Dietmar Hamann, John Arne Riise and Fabio Aurelio.

The 122-game Reds star was looking forward to rekindling an intense rivalry against a team of Manchester United greats, led by French striker Louis Saha.

“Barcelona against Real Madrid and Manchester United against Liverpool are probably the two biggest games in football.

“It’s quite something to bring these two teams to the other side of the world, because they (supporters) don’t have many chances to watch live games like this one.

“For us it’s also very important to give back a little bit of the love that we felt from the supporters when we were players.

“Once you retire, you start seeing that people are totally in love with Liverpool around the world and how many crazy things they have to do to even watch a game live on TV at 3am.”

The diminutive Garcia won four trophies in three seasons at Anfield, capped by the dramatic come-from-behind triumph over AC Milan in the 2005 Champions League decider in Istanbul.


Luis Garcia in action for Central Coast Mariners during the 2015/16 A-League season. Picture: Ashley Feder/Getty Images
He earned a reputation for scoring important goals in big matches, building a close bond with Liverpool supporters which lasts to this day.

“I arrived into a new culture and a new city with different players and a different language,” the 20-cap Spanish international said.

“But I felt at home because the club treated me so well and the supporters from the first game helped me so much to adapt.

“They (the fans) made a song about me and I think after that everything started looking so bright.

“To think that whole crowd has been thinking about some words just for you, you cannot express with words the feeling.

“It’s been 13 years since then and they still sing it some times.”

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/sport/football/a-league/liverpool-great-luis-garcia-backs-calls-for-national-second-division/news-story/b00cc4baa961ddc8e70b750e32431d22

Doesn't know what he's talking about.. 10 games isn't long enough to understand Strayan kulcha