he really tried to think outside the box (pardon the pun) to cover for four facts
1. that we don't have great fullbacks (although i think gersbach provides a decent option and behich is decent but they both play on the left)
2. our wingers are decent but weak finishers (though not bad defensively)
3. We find it difficult to break a team down with a single number 10. Also our 10s are our best finishers. Its difficult to consistently score enough goals without 2 10s
4. We are defensively too fragile to risk playing without 2 6's

I think at club level he prefers more conventional methods

In comparison to Ange , Pim used three formations.

The 4-4-2 midfield diamond.

The 4-2-3-1 in BPO, and 4-3-3 defensive midfield triangle in Ball Possession.

The Christmas Tree 4-3-2-1 formation against Japan, in Japan, when he realised that a draw was a major step in WCQ down the track.

Pim's teams played conservatively  away, but he got the job done as our top WCQ coach. We were of the first three teams to qualify, along with Holland and Japan. A draw away in the ME did it - Qatar?

From the 3-4-2-1, it is difficult to change shape, particularly to familiar ones the players have played a lot at club level and underage football. 

Yeah once he went to a midfield box he couldn't switch the midfield triangle when we were ahead. Its a small change, so it should be no big deal to implement it. But perhaps ante felt considering our defensive frailties that dominating territory and going for more goals was a better defense given what we had in personnel

Ange was not at fault last night.

The attacking cattle were because they did not have their shooting boots on.

Their attacking interplay and movement off the ball  was excellent though.

The performance wasn't bad the substitutions and game management was abysmal. Rogic should have been pulled, Cahill should never have been that deep when he is our best finisher and nor should we have waited so long to actually pump Thailand with crosses where Timmy and Juric are actually dangerous. When we actually did that we scored some goals. But lastly it also isn't acceptable to look like conceding every time the Thais touched the ball in which although they had one shot on target they sure got in behind usmore than once. Oh and also the suicide passing from the back is ridiculous, I feel sorry for Ryan as that mess at the back clearly comes from Anges instructions.

I'm going to illustrate the three formations which can easily be interchanged on the pitch within the same half, that Ange has failed to do.



The  defensive midfield 4-3-3:


X....................X...................X.................X

.................X...............................X
...............................X

X............................X.............................X






To make the 3-4-3 midfield diamond, which can also be termed the  4-3-3 with a 3:1 back four,  the two FBs tuck in a bit and one CB plays in front of the other:

....X......................X...................X

............................X
..............X.......................X
...........................X

X........................X.....................X





To move from the 4-3-3 defensive midfield triangle to the 4-3-3 attacking midfield triangle, the midfield triangle can be inverted. One DM , or number 6, becomes a twin number 10 or twin attacking AM:

X..................X.....................X.................X

................................X
.................X..............................X

X..............................X..........................X






The defensive midfield triangle can also be changed to a 4-2-3-1 with the two wingers moving back in a line with the number 10.

The attacking midfield triangle version of the 4-3-3 can also become a 4-5-1 or 4-1-4-1, with the two wingers moving back in a line with the twin attacking mids.


If one looks at the 3-2-4-1, it is more difficult to change to conventional shapes that have used for some time with success.

........X...............X..................X

..............X...................X
X..................................................X
...........X......................X

........................X

Fact is if you had said before the qualifying campaign started that we end up with 5 wins, 4 draws and just 1 loss for a tally of 19 points you would have taken it straight away as 99 times out 100 that would get you in automatically, now is not the time to get hysterical, the focus needs to shift to the playoffs and be treated as an extension of the current campaign, I like a bozza rent as much as anyone but it's important this doesn't get over done, you would think we have already missed out altogether. Teams far better than ours will be competing in playoffs as well.

its true he has them in tournaments but it seems he has worked on specific plans tailor made for specific teams which may not work against the asian teams. If he had a full week of unjetlagged players before each team he could change things for each team. Perhaps he should have used tournaments to implement alternate structures that could be used more generally

With Pim he was very good at coach defensive structure and he had players who were good at implementing defensive structure week in week out. 
In Ange he isn't that great at it at club level (no a league club bar popa is). He is also working with players that aren't good at implementing a tight defensive structure

The problem wasnt last night it was the games before that where Ange was experimenting in key games and they backfired. We dropped so many vital points. 4 draws out of 10 games. 

How should he have setup lastnight game then? Play counter and hope to get 1 maybe 2 goals at best? We needed to go all out for the 90 mins which we did and we created more than 30 chances and hit the post 3 times. Combination of terrible luck and bad finishing by the players. Something Ange cant help with. Last night's game isn;t the one that people should be having a go at Ange about, if anything its the previous one's which had flawed tactics. Why can't people see that? Last night was actually one of our better performances in terms of tactics imo.

Why is it impossible to find a link to the full press conference. Can't find it anywhere other than the 30 second clip of ange walking out. I'd like to see what other questions were asked leading up to it. 

If anyone has a link that would be great. Could only find articles with quotes on fox sports. Nothing on FIFA.com either.

True about short preparation time, but  Ange has had the nucleus of this squad for weeks and weeks leading into the three big tournaments.

Pim and Guus would change formation during a game, even within a half. Cues devised on the  training track should transfer to a signal to change formation and game plan with a coach's instruction from the sideline. Melb City have done this a lot in the HAL under JVS.   

For instance if Australia had started the game against Japan with a defensive midfield triangle 4-3-3, Australia could have used width more easily in build ups. Japan used a three man midfield block to disturb Australia's central midfield build ups, in their midfield box rather than midfield diamond formation.

If Australia had started the game with the unexpected 4-3-3 , Japan would have to change the game  plan as Australia would've had 4 wide players instead of 2. Japan would not  have  been prepared for  it.

As I saw it, Austrlaia's main  issue when they reverted to the 4-3-3- attacking midfield  triangle as opposed to the defensive midfield triangle, was Ange selected Jedi for the single screener role in preference over Milligan.

In BPO this was okay.

But in Ball Possession Jedi's skills to play out are far inferior to Milligan's who was often benched.

IMO the 4-3-3 defensive midfield triangle, the 4-4-4 attacking midfield triangle and the conventional 3-4-3 diamond shaped midfield could've been changed by a    subtle move of one player, even in the same half.

Ange's 3-4-2-1 was harder to change without a wholesale reconfiguration in personnel.

Even worse Ange has interfered with the process of development within Australia's FFA. We have had no Technical Director for above the ages of 16 since Berger left.

In the latter part of the campaign Ange has been out-coached and out-thought by his adversaries like Van Marwijk, the Japanese coach and the Thai coach.

  

Well said. 

Sacking Ange now is like throwing in the towel before the next round of qualification games start.

No coach can come in and turn around a team in a month.I feel for Ange, even if he is stubborn with his tactics.

The team that he built & implored to push on with their careers after the Asia Cup has not happened.

When you look back at how successful that tournament was and when the team was on an upward trajectory, the following players careers stagnated after it:
- Jason Davidson
- Trent Sainsbury
- Mat Ryan
- Matthew Spiranovic
- James Troisi
- Mass Luongo
- Robbie Kruse

That's just way too many players to carry through an entire WCQ campaign and not think that it's going to affect the teams performances.

Ange has taken the responsibility fairly, but he's been up against it trying to put together a starting XI that is in form and playing regularly since the Asia Cup success.

And pay them peanuts as the FFA is broke.

Ange isn't going anywhere unless he decides to leave himself.

I actually didn't mind the way we played last night in terms of the way we setup to play. We hit the post 3 times ffs and had over 30 shots on goal. It's the players that are the problem here. So many c grade players. 

In saying that, the way Ange approached the Japan game and the previous matches abroad is the main issue. We ALWAYS struggle against teams that play a defensive game as we dont have the talent to penetrate in tight spaces, hence why he should used different tactics in those games. But when we play against offensive opposition we always perform well. See us in the last world cup as well as against Chile in the confed cup. I actually think had we played Japan of old (ie when they were more attack minded) I reckon it would have worked well for us as we would have had more space up front.

With 40 odd shots on goal and nothing really to show for it would tell yu it's the cattle that's the problem not necessarily the coach. The tactics used lastnight were fine. It was for the other two games that we setup badly.

Decentric is becoming embarrassing.  Patently absurd proposition above.

Deluded I think is the word you're looking for.   

Just stop. "Far better" :laugh:

Schwarzer played over 500 games in the EPL. Over 100 international caps. 

Ryan 'may' be better at sweeping. But a keeper's primary role is, was and always will be keeping the ball out of the net. To say that Ryan is "far better" at it at this stage of his career is laughable. 

He was basically 3rd choice for much of his time at a struggling Valencia. Successive coaches didnt think he was good enough to be first choice. He's only just started his EPL career. Let's wait a few years before making outrageous claims, shall we? 

@Decentric
i think its uniquely hard to change tactics in these one of asian games. You might only have 2-3 days with players before the game and you have to get them over jetlag and used to foreign conditions in that time

You really only have a chance to implement plan A better. Ange has varied things a little more in tournaments. But playing a christmas tree isn't as easy as it sounds. It takes sustained training to get players bpo movements right so that when one player tracks a run another player fills the hole they left and another fills the hole they left etc. Your offside trap has to be excellent and you need to train to defend of set pieces since a christmas tree will concede that. You need to do all that better than the current system for it to improve the chance of a positive result (and in doing so you sacrifice training to tweak your plan A). Thats why Ange and Pim during asia rarely varied there system and just tried to get plan A as good as possible

Ryan is a far better sweeper than Schwarzer.

Keepers can be appraised  in three areas.

1. Shot stopping.

2. Ability to command the penalty box.

3. Sweeping.

Schwarzer is probably a better shot stopper. In the other two areas he is probably worse than Ryan.

Ange is a better tournament coach than a qualifying coach.

His performances in  Brazil, the Asian and Confed Cups have been good, given the calibre of the opposition.

a year from now if they both play week in week out they might get closer

I think we need to calm our farm here a little bit. Ange is not getting sacked, nor should he. Let him try and qualify then if we make it see what we can do at the world cup. At the end of the day it wasn't him missing a thousand chances last night. 

It's nice to remember draws against Japan away etc, but you also need to remember you had schwarzer making 5-6 top line saves jut to keep us in it, Ryan is clearly not in the same league, nor is langerak.

Back to Ange, sacking him now would be the craziest thing we could do considering the Syria games are just around the corner, who would you get? If the players react negatively to the new manager we are out of the playoffs before a ball is kicked, sacking Ange also tells the players that they failed, led by bozza everyone is a bit emotional now, but in a few days time when the dust settles it needs to be back to business, the campaign continues and we need to be mature about it.

I see four games as decisive in the qualifying campaign.

1. Against Saudi we were a goal up away from home. Ange kept trying to play Plan A better in his Plan B. He could've shut up shop by using a Christmas Tree 4-3-2-1. He didn't. Saudi got a late goal.

2. Away against Iraq we were also a goal up late in the game. Ange kept playing the new irregular 3-4-2-1. Again he could've used the 4-3-2-1 Christmas Tree formation late in the game. He didn't. Iraq scored a late goal.

3. Against Japan away, Australia had become predictable by using the 3-4-2-1. Japan set up their best tactical  plan against us and disturbed our central build ups.

In comparison the pragmatic Pim realised against Japan, away, Australia needed a draw for the WC qualification later down the track. His 4-3-2-1 worked seamlessly, forcing Japan to cross from wide, as the main a danger was their attacking interplay on the edge of the box. Australia drew 0-0 and qualified easily.

4. In the home game against Thailand last night Ange's game plan worked on the night with 30 odd shots to Thailand's 2, but the players were profligate and unlucky. It wasn't Ange's fault. The players failed to convert the goals they should've. It probably shouldn't have had so much riding on the game, but Ange's 3-4-2-1 was sound in the circumstances of a home game.


 In Ange's tenure  the team have had thee distinct phases:

1. Initially he played a 4-2-3-1 / 4-3-3 defensive  midfield triangle.

2. He played a 4-3-3 attacking  midfield triangle. His big selection mistake here was often playing Jedi as the sole number 6 or DM in preference to Milligan. His most consistent player often wasn't in the starting  eleven.

3. He played a 3-4-2-1 / 3-2-4-1. His selection mistake here has been Smith as left wing back.

There was an attempt at a 4-4-2 for a game or so.




Why Ange failed to use a combination of  1, 2 and 3, in the latter period of qualifying, is surprising.

He may have thought he had no full back stood enough.

By using the 3-4-2-1 he needed wide players with huge engines. This may have led to Behich's omission as he wasn't considered a good enough athlete.

Many fans have criticised Ange, but they aren't professional coaches or former pros. He has copped criticism from some former pros and coaches who wonder why he hasn't been more flexible in his game plans and less predictable. Off air he has emphatically told Bozza his Plan B is to play Plan A better. This is stupid. It has cost us direct qualification. 

Sadly Ange's whole mantra is based on this mystical notion of "controlling the game" and empathised ball possession as the  single most important facet of this revolutionary philosophy he had for Straya.
I remember so many games where we played disappointingly, replying on set piece goals, not creating much chances, but Ange would always excuse the result or performance because at least we played the way he wanted i.e.lots of passing, possession and controlled the match. 

Reality check. International football is a street fight. Saw a few sth American wcq last week and there were no pretty free flowing football. We don't want Pim style full defensive retreat or Holger half way floated hoofs into the box but as many have said, let's play to our strengths. 
 Hard taka if possible is ideal. We don't have ball playing defenders or midfield generals. When we press high up, have tackling intent, attack aggressively and get in behind we look amazing. When we pretend to be bartha we fail miserably. 

Ange needs to get real. Let's judge our performance and tactics based on goal scoring chance created and conceded. Having 70% possession passing between defenders and coward players passing backwards is not "controlling the game" , you're wasting time being cowards. 

I don't know what has happened, I don't know what the answer is either, but it is broken, isn't it

Hello darkness and all that

Surely he has to go now. Aim would be to qualify for the World Cup and do it direcetly. He's failed

So gamble on the draw and almost certain repechage, to chase a second goal, that seemed divinely to stay out. It was a rediculous move.