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dman2018 - 21 Feb 2022 9:44 PM
I have an awful feeling 'innovators' have been watching this weekend thinking 'geez this unlimited interchange is great, let's change thexrules'.... And 'quarters are gold, let's change the rules'....

That explains why Villi and I have been called into an emergency meeting at NRL HQ.
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Zef - 21 Feb 2022 9:46 PM
dman2018 - 21 Feb 2022 9:36 PM

Don’t know really.

I know a lot would say Averillo, but I’ve never really been sold on him. I see him as a head down footballer, as opposed to heads up.

He just seems to lose his confidence… early, and drops his head,

 So maybe Allen, who can ball play, didn’t show it so much last year but certainly did the year before. If not him well let someone put their hand up.

Or next year we look for someone who can. And I’ve said it before I think Gus has his eye on someone, named Latrell.

But worry about that next year.

How quickly I forgot about Allen... 
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Anyone else disapointed with TBaz interview after the game?

He downplayed how bad the halves were but most of all he made reference to the tries we conceded as being single errors rather than systematic and that we can fix them fairly easily...

What planet is he on?

The one on one misses that result in tries cannot just be fixed like a light switch. Clifford ran through a poor Alamoti miss close to the line, Averillo miss read a short pass from Klemmer. The only try that was systematic that can be fixed was the last one scored by Young from a cut-out pass when JOK jammed in.

I sometimes feel TBaz talks like he has all the answers when he really has shit. We saw all of last year and years before how bad our attack was inside the 20m. We see it again in 1 trial match.

Id rather he comes out and blames the wet conditions, match unfitness and inexperience and that we need to work on our cover defence rather than make it sound like he has all the answers.
He worries me. 
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dman2018 - 21 Feb 2022 9:53 PM
Zef - 21 Feb 2022 9:46 PM

How quickly I forgot about Allen... 

Youre excused.
Dufty will not be vacating the fullback spot for Allan. Not unless he is suspended or injured.
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When you talk about confidence - Allomatti  had about the worst 20 mins odd NRL debut of a Bulldog player I’ e seen for a long time.

But then his his second 20 and the odd minutes in the 2nd half he got involved, was agro both defensively.. which still wasn’t great…  and offensively

He put himself right in the thick of it and backed himself for better or worse.

I don’t see that from Averillo. Always looks like a deer in the headlights to me.
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Marki - 21 Feb 2022 9:56 PM
Anyone else disapointed with TBaz interview after the game?

He downplayed how bad the halves were but most of all he made reference to the tries we conceded as being single errors rather than systematic and that we can fix them fairly easily...

What planet is he on?

The one on one misses that result in tries cannot just be fixed like a light switch. Clifford ran through a poor Alamoti miss close to the line, Averillo miss read a short pass from Klemmer. The only try that was systematic that can be fixed was the last one scored by Young from a cut-out pass when JOK jammed in.

I sometimes feel TBaz talks like he has all the answers when he really has shit. We saw all of last year and years before how bad our attack was inside the 20m. We see it again in 1 trial match.

Id rather he comes out and blames the wet conditions, match unfitness and inexperience and that we need to work on our cover defence rather than make it sound like he has all the answers.
He worries me. 

I watched the press conference, seemed ok to me.

Acknowledged errors, kicking game etc. .Difficulty in attacking close to the line.

The coach isn't going to be overly critical of players in public.

In the modern game attacking in the opposition 20 is something teams need to execute well to get results.

Defense wise he is saying decisions made by players were a factor.
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King wanted to offload every time. His selectivity could be questioned but also did well.
Cook was giving good directions every time he was involved. JOK has appalling hands and doesn't have the menace he should have. If anyone thought of playing him in the forwards I'd say they'd have to be kidding. He is nearly 2 metres tall and big as a truck but doesn't play like it.
Schupp's goalkicking didn't look too bad at all.
Every second of every day I hate Klemmer just a little bit more.
Dufty in the halves or Biondi-odo may not be a bad thing. Dufty's pass to Okunder was great. I think our attack will improve with his masny incursions during attacking runs.
Seaumanufagai seemed to be more explosive than last year.
All in all a reasonable hit up. Still have severe doubts re Flanagan.
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Creedence had played a solid part in Canterbury's Revival.


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Zef - 21 Feb 2022 10:01 PM
When you talk about confidence - Allomatti  had about the worst 20 mins odd NRL debut of a Bulldog player I’ e seen for a long time.

But then his his second 20 and the odd minutes in the 2nd half he got involved, was agro both defensively.. which still wasn’t great…  and offensively

He put himself right in the thick of it and backed himself for better or worse.

I don’t see that from Averillo. Always looks like a deer in the headlights to me.

When Averillo is on he can be a very dangerous attacking player.
He is still young and does need to get more consistent.

IMO Wakeham and BBO don't lack confidence, inconsistency is a lack of experience, and they need a number of NRL games in a row.

For now, I think Burto's partner is one of these 3 guys.we could argue quality but an NRL half needs 50 games to nail the role. If a guy was the raw ingredients there is chance more experience can improve their game. 
All 3 have talent in patches, just enough to suggest they are still worth tryimg.
 
Unless the halves are a disaster I would like to see each guy get 4-5 games in a row with Burto.
4-5 games is enough to rule the red line through the player at least until all other options have been tried.

Or if Baz has a hunch on Dufty in the halves make him option 2.

 Fullback might suit Averillo, bring his running game into play.
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Zef - 21 Feb 2022 9:09 PM
There’s a lot to be happy about.. and a lot not.

The defensive line speed seems a lot more urgent, we were running up, not jogging.

Of players we expect to make a difference - 

Dufty is a very gifted ball player and runner, we know his defensive issues but there were none tonight, best player on the field for his 40 mins. TPJ imposing. Same for Max King, played himself into the 17 pending 2nd trial. JMK looked sharp, Cook looked as sharp and a talker and leader. Vaughan strong, 

Schoup agro.. Mention for Alomoto who had a shocker first few involvement both defensively… especially… and offensively but subsequently was involved and physical, almost intimidating. Forget him being run down by whatever his name is - he’s not meant to run 80 and outrun them, he’s meant to run 40 and smash his way there.

The not lot to be happy about is whoever is gonna be #7. Averillo, Wakeham - they’re not it, don’t take a trial to know they never were. BBO maybe one day, but not soon enough - he’s #14.

I’m still thinking as Dufty is a gifted, very gifted, ball player and runner if our best bet is him at #6. We will go close to scoring every time he has ball in hand inside the 20, every single time.

Until and if someone puts a case otherwise, Burton #7, Dufty #6 is the best way to unleash the pints we got elsewhere all across the park.

Or they just sit there catching colds.

It maybe a bit early for BBO but is he the best we have? Would his style complement Burton?
As for Alomoti I'm  glad they persevered with him. He showed a lot of character  coming back from a poor start and it would  have been a shame to hook  him and dent his obvious  confidence.
King impressed, big and really had a go.
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Steveswr33333 - 21 Feb 2022 10:30 PM
King wanted to offload every time. His selectivity could be questioned but also did well.
Cook was giving good directions every time he was involved. JOK has appalling hands and doesn't have the menace he should have. If anyone thought of playing him in the forwards I'd say they'd have to be kidding. He is nearly 2 metres tall and big as a truck but doesn't play like it.
Schupp's goalkicking didn't look too bad at all.
Every second of every day I hate Klemmer just a little bit more.
Dufty in the halves or Biondi-odo may not be a bad thing. Dufty's pass to Okunder was great. I think our attack will improve with his masny incursions during attacking runs.
Seaumanufagai seemed to be more explosive than last year.
All in all a reasonable hit up. Still have severe doubts re Flanagan.

I don't think Flanno is even worth trying, until he is very dominant in reserve grade at least 3 weeks in a row.
If he comes back to NRL, we need him confident and ready.

Dufty does play like a 2nd 5/8 at fullback, a fullback with a good passing game and the abilty to read play is a bonus. None of the other fullback candidates have that.
Edited
3 Years Ago by hounddog
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hounddog - 21 Feb 2022 10:41 PM
Steveswr33333 - 21 Feb 2022 10:30 PM

I don't think Flanno is even worth trying, until he is very dominant in reserve grade at least 3 weeks in a row.
If he comes back to NRL, we need him confident and ready.

Dufty does play like a 2nd 5/8 at fullback, a fullback with a good passing game and the abilty to read play is a bonus. None of the otger fullback candidates have that.

Dufty has something we haven't  had for years. We can take advantage of his talents and work on any flaws or we can focus on his faults and go back to where we were.
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Mooloolabadog - 21 Feb 2022 10:40 PM
Zef - 21 Feb 2022 9:09 PM

It maybe a bit early for BBO but is he the best we have? Would his style complement Burton?
As for Alomoti I'm  glad they persevered with him. He showed a lot of character  coming back from a poor start and it would  have been a shame to hook  him and dent his obvious  confidence.
King impressed, big and really had a go.

We need to try different combinations and see which one works.

Burto will be doing a lot of the yardage kicking, BBO and Wakes ok at short kicking.

Averillo and BBO dangerous runners,.

All 3 throw some good passes, but not often enough.

BBO and Wakes have the confidence and competitiveness.

BBO is perhaps the most likely to become the total package . But is it a bit early to throw him in the  halves?

Often the best  option is the player that wants it the most. Again BBO seems like that guy.

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hounddog - 21 Feb 2022 10:51 PM
Mooloolabadog - 21 Feb 2022 10:40 PM

We need to try different combinations and see which one works.

Burto will be doing a lot of the yardage kicking, BBO and Wakes ok at short kicking.

Averillo and BBO dangerous runners,.

All 3 throw some good passes, but not often enough.

BBO and Wakes have the confidence and competitiveness.

BBO is perhaps the most likely to become the total package . But is it a bit early to throw him in the  halves?

Often the best  option is the player that wants it the most. Again BBO seems like that guy.

My question is why do our halves rarely get early ball? Is it their  lack of initiative  or coaching.
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Steveswr33333 - 21 Feb 2022 10:32 PM
Creedence had played a solid part in Canterbury's Revival.


It was as clear as water!
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Mooloolabadog - 21 Feb 2022 11:00 PM
hounddog - 21 Feb 2022 10:51 PM

My question is why do our halves rarely get early ball? Is it their  lack of initiative  or coaching.

That is one reason why I still have some reservations about JMK.

All of our recent dummy halves including Ennis never gave the halves enough fast early ball when we had momentum.

The halves do need to be in position and calling for it.

With early ball over the advantage line most halves are dangerous.

Slow play the ball, slow looping pass, opposition defence in their face, it is hard for halves to make an impression.

We should see TPJ and Hethro make an impact in attack, that should mean more attacking momentum and opportunity.



Edited
3 Years Ago by hounddog
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Dufty was great. Our halves were terrible. Forwards did well. Backline was too shallow. Allamoti will be great. Baz is still out of his depth. 
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If Burton can manage the team and just allow the other half to run and backup play we are still a hope of improving. Dufty can make up for the lack of ball playing at fullback. 

But we need our backline to be deep and have much better structure. I’m not sure if we can do this until we get Reed and hopefully a halfback too. 

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Mooloolabadog - 21 Feb 2022 11:00 PM
hounddog - 21 Feb 2022 10:51 PM

My question is why do our halves rarely get early ball? Is it their  lack of initiative  or coaching.

I often wonder the same thing myself...
I put it down to them not being assertive enough and this ingrained bulldog mentality that forwards are more important than spine players.

I fekking hate it
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Marki - 22 Feb 2022 7:54 PM
Mooloolabadog - 21 Feb 2022 11:00 PM

I often wonder the same thing myself...
I put it down to them not being assertive enough and this ingrained bulldog mentality that forwards are more important than spine players.

I fekking hate it

We looked a bit better with Cook at dummy-half.

By that time BBO was playing half wuth Flanno who was invisible.

Overall all of the new recruits and promoted pups went well

Hopefully Burto plays most games and maybe we need to sign a half for 23.
Edited
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I must admit, as much as i think Burton will be a good player, i honestly thought we signed him to fill the dominant half position.

I thought (after watching that drawn game a couple of years back) that he would improve on his halves play in the subsequent opportunities he got while cleary was either injured or or rep duties. He hasnt. In fact he's more of a chance being a better centre than a 5/8th going on '21 form.

The fact he has now been branded as a 5/8th only when we had Averillo in that spot makes me think perhaps we could have passed on him and gone for a genuine half. Seems now we are trying to fit 2 players into 1 position. Poor averillo cops it left right and centre for not being the "half we need" yet Burton escapes criticsm on a position he was earnarked for well before Avo.

HD has already pointed out that maybe we should have gone after Reynolds and i have to agree with him. Unless we recruit a halfback in 2023 (or 24 at worst) it seems we are stuck with 2 running 5/8ths and no halfback who can steer the ship.

Personally i dont care if we go with 2 running 5/8ths. Storm do it and they are
 successful. We just need one of them to command the ship and dictate the play. Doesnt look like it can be Averillo so it will have ro be Burton, or one of them will have to make way for a genuine recruited half
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Marki - 22 Feb 2022 9:36 PM
I must admit, as much as i think Burton will be a good player, i honestly thought we signed him to fill the dominant half position.

I thought (after watching that drawn game a couple of years back) that he would improve on his halves play in the subsequent opportunities he got while cleary was either injured or or rep duties. He hasnt. In fact he's more of a chance being a better centre than a 5/8th going on '21 form.

The fact he has now been branded as a 5/8th only when we had Averillo in that spot makes me think perhaps we could have passed on him and gone for a genuine half. Seems now we are trying to fit 2 players into 1 position. Poor averillo cops it left right and centre for not being the "half we need" yet Burton escapes criticsm on a position he was earnarked for well before Avo.

HD has already pointed out that maybe we should have gone after Reynolds and i have to agree with him. Unless we recruit a halfback in 2023 (or 24 at worst) it seems we are stuck with 2 running 5/8ths and no halfback who can steer the ship.

Personally i dont care if we go with 2 running 5/8ths. Storm do it and they are
 successful. We just need one of them to command the ship and dictate the play. Doesnt look like it can be Averillo so it will have ro be Burton, or one of them will have to make way for a genuine recruited half

Abi hasty on Burton, he hasn't  pulled on a boot for us yet.
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Mooloolabadog - 22 Feb 2022 9:52 PM
Marki - 22 Feb 2022 9:36 PM

Abi hasty on Burton, he hasn't  pulled on a boot for us yet.

Sorry. Should be "a bit hasty"
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Marki - 22 Feb 2022 9:36 PM
I must admit, as much as i think Burton will be a good player, i honestly thought we signed him to fill the dominant half position.

I thought (after watching that drawn game a couple of years back) that he would improve on his halves play in the subsequent opportunities he got while cleary was either injured or or rep duties. He hasnt. In fact he's more of a chance being a better centre than a 5/8th going on '21 form.

The fact he has now been branded as a 5/8th only when we had Averillo in that spot makes me think perhaps we could have passed on him and gone for a genuine half. Seems now we are trying to fit 2 players into 1 position. Poor averillo cops it left right and centre for not being the "half we need" yet Burton escapes criticsm on a position he was earnarked for well before Avo.

HD has already pointed out that maybe we should have gone after Reynolds and i have to agree with him. Unless we recruit a halfback in 2023 (or 24 at worst) it seems we are stuck with 2 running 5/8ths and no halfback who can steer the ship.

Personally i dont care if we go with 2 running 5/8ths. Storm do it and they are
 successful. We just need one of them to command the ship and dictate the play. Doesnt look like it can be Averillo so it will have ro be Burton, or one of them will have to make way for a genuine recruited half

Burton is a good player, all combinations have their strong/weak points.
Weak point of Burton & Averillo might be end if set options, strong point is the running game.

On the trial itself the missed trap from Avo on the kick off got us off to the worst possible start,.
Then first half we stood too shallow and service from dummy-half was slow and occasionally inaccurate.
On some plays the defence was right on top of the half giving them little time to kick.

But the halves should have stood deeper.

Someone like Burto can make a difference just by being composed and getting into good positions, or by running.

For the Pangai kick, Wakes had no time to kick and choose to run, right decision, the ball was flopped out to Pangai who kicked, right decision, while the kick was wobbly, a more committed chase might have got a result, often a kick is only as good as the chase.

If we want to avoid the problem, Wakes should stand deeper and he needs good service.

Whst I liked about Cook was speed, he played fast and plenty of times the halves were over the add line.
Unfortunately a lot of that great service was ruined by simply passing the ball across the field, halves had to pick up an runner inside or outside 2 passes- 1. dummy-half to half. 2. Half to runner, fast play the ball and repeat

So overall we are too shallow and try to play around the opposition too much.

I don't know if that is bad coaching, bad habits or simply the players are not good enough. 

Lots of new players and some selection decisions to be made, might take a while to build combinations.






Edited
3 Years Ago by hounddog
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Not liking Latrell being able to count the All Stars game as one of his suspensions. This is a semi exhibition game (note the number of players that pulled out or made themselves  unavailable) with a limited selection criteria. This gives Latrell an advantage over other players who were not racially qualified for selection.
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Mooloolabadog - 22 Feb 2022 9:52 PM
Marki - 22 Feb 2022 9:36 PM

Abi hasty on Burton, he hasn't  pulled on a boot for us yet.

A lot of sport is played in the head, I'm hoping Burton brings some composure.
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Mooloolabadog - 22 Feb 2022 10:04 PM
Not liking Latrell being able to count the All Stars game as one of his suspensions. This is a semi exhibition game (note the number of players that pulled out or made themselves  unavailable) with a limited selection criteria. This gives Latrell an advantage over other players who were not racially qualified for selection.

That hit on Joey by Latrell was bad and deserves the full sentence.
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hounddog - 22 Feb 2022 10:01 PM
Marki - 22 Feb 2022 9:36 PM

Burton is a good player, all combinations have their strong/weak points.
Weak point of Burton & Averillo might be end if set options, strong point is the running game.

On the trial itself the missed trap from Avo on the kick off got us off to the worst possible start,.
Then first half we stood too shallow and service from dummy-half was slow and occasionally inaccurate.
On some plays the defence was right on top of the half giving them little time to kick.

But the halves should have stood deeper.

Someone like Burto can make a difference just by being composed and getting into good positions, or by running.

For the Pangai kick, Wakes had no time to kick and choose to run, right decision, the ball was flopped out to Pangai who kicked, right decision, while the kick was wobbly, a more committed chase might have got a result, often a kick is only as good as the chase.

If we want to avoid the problem, Wakes should stand deeper and he needs good service.

Whst I liked about Cook was speed, he played fast and plenty of times the halves were over the add line.
Unfortunately a lot of that great service was ruined by simply passing the ball across the field, halves had to pick up an runner inside or outside 2 passes- 1. dummy-half to half. 2. Half to runner, fast play the ball and repeat

So overall we are too shallow and try to play around the opposition too much.

I don't know if that is bad coaching, bad habits or simply the players are not good enough. 

Lots of new players and some selection decisions to be made, might take a while to build combinations.






Some good points.
I agree we were rushed and stood too shallow.
The solution and adjustment was simple.
Thats if the team had an IQ.

If it happens again without adjustment, im blaming both players a coaches.
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Mooloolabadog - 22 Feb 2022 10:04 PM
Not liking Latrell being able to count the All Stars game as one of his suspensions. This is a semi exhibition game (note the number of players that pulled out or made themselves  unavailable) with a limited selection criteria. This gives Latrell an advantage over other players who were not racially qualified for selection.

The sooner he returns, the sooner he can get suspended again....

(Glass half full)
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Mooloolabadog - 22 Feb 2022 10:04 PM
Not liking Latrell being able to count the All Stars game as one of his suspensions. This is a semi exhibition game (note the number of players that pulled out or made themselves  unavailable) with a limited selection criteria. This gives Latrell an advantage over other players who were not racially qualified for selection.

The NRL couldn’t have it both ways though - suspend him from The All Stars and then not make it count. Origin games, Aus games they all count.

Either The All Stars counts too or they let him play it - and seeing as they didn’t, it’s got to count.
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