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hounddog
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Marki - 27 Mar 2022 9:56 PM
dman2018 - 27 Mar 2022 8:28 PM

I thought Baz did well with tactics today.
It was clear we were playing to a gameplan to nullify Saab and Turbo (which we had called blueprint from first 2 rounds). And it worked.

The problem was the fact that I raised this whole last week which was
#1 we dont fekking score enough points
#2 we have defensive structural problems inboard of right wing which are NOT Okunbors sole fault.

I couldn't have spelt it any fekking clearer.

And yes.... I pride myself as the coaching Oracle.
Because I was so fekking right.

(Go back and read my posts)

IMO if Hethro is out injured we need to put a good defensive 2nd rower on that side.

Okunbor is just too slow and too slow to adjust.

If he could handle the workrate, then play him at right 2nd row, him and Schoupp could even rotate, becuase Schoupp can handle it.

When the team is short, the problem isn't always the centre and winger, but they are the players who can solve the problem. At a minimum, they need to work together.
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Marki - 27 Mar 2022 10:09 PM
hounddog - 27 Mar 2022 9:40 PM

Dufty had no chance on the first try.
Once Garrick got passed Burns, Dufty had Garrick and at least 2 Manly players to cover. He went for the pass but it was a hail mary play.

On the second try, it was disappointing we didn't just slide. Dufty makes a last ditch effort to hit the ball away from Garricks hand and nearly succeeds. But the issue was inboard when we didn't slide wirh 30seconds to go.

As for the scrum, the idea is to break away and get under the posts. It was pioneered by Billy Slater who was very vocal and the "voice" of Melbourne storms structure. His role off the ball is often unrecognised by some.

Dufty hasn't got the same voice. 

It's why I'm very open to have someone like Gutherson. He is not only an elite fullback. He is a good captain and we could have done with someone like him in the final 5mins today.

Ok, I will rewatch, I just don't remeber Duffty using his speed to make a covering tackle.

He does add plenty in attack.

TPJ is a player who may frustrate me, he seems hot and cold and didn't make a big impact today.
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That kennel is full of a weird bunch.
They must all have bi-polar or something

They were calling for Averillos head last few weeks. They get their wish, and now they blame Wakeham.

At what point do they realise that even with 10 Nathan Clearys, we won't do shit if we arent hitting the advantage line in motion and create things?

Until we fekk off this idea that forwards are king shit, and piss them off the ball when attacking, we will remain shit.

No matter who the half is.
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Marki, are you just realusing the The Kennel is full of weirdos. Nothing EVER pleases that bunch and most of the time a lot of them aren't even aware of the sh!t that they waffle.
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Marki - 27 Mar 2022 10:28 PM
That kennel is full of a weird bunch.
They must all have bi-polar or something

They were calling for Averillos head last few weeks. They get their wish, and now they blame Wakeham.

At what point do they realise that even with 10 Nathan Clearys, we won't do shit if we arent hitting the advantage line in motion and create things?

Until we fekk off this idea that forwards are king shit, and piss them off the ball when attacking, we will remain shit.

No matter who the half is.

You are right in having players hit the advantage line. Also having players run into holes off the ball. But you are wrong that having forwards running block plays doesn’t work. Every good team has forwards in the backline running lines. 

Our problem is that the halfback isn’t getting the ball to Burton or Dufty with space. That takes time. It also takes patience. In a few games Avo would know roughly the timing that both Burto and Duffman were running onto the ball and when to link to them. Now we have to start again with Wakeham. The team needs to build combinations again. Changing the halfback could have put us back a few weeks. I’m pretty sure however Barrett will find a new halfback just before they get their timing right and stuff up the team again 

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Vallo440 - 27 Mar 2022 8:43 PM
Vallo440 - 27 Mar 2022 8:41 PM

Conversely we've scored the least points so far, only Manly have scored 3 more than us. 

Like firsr comment...
As for second... SCIENCE!!!.…
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Micko - 27 Mar 2022 9:15 PM
dman2018 - 27 Mar 2022 8:28 PM

I always said I’m happy for him to remain coach for his contract. But I think he has proven to be very poor at coaching. Changing the team after two rounds is very poor. 

Our defensive structure has been terrible. Our scramble in defence has been great. I think we both know the difference. Our try’s has come of individual efforts, a mistake or a lucky bounce.

The individual players we have recruited look good. The team looks disjointed. And even more so today after dropping the halfback. I thought we were building well and Baz drops the key man in attack. 

This team will struggle to make the 8 with Baz coaching. Kevin Walters would do better

Yep... Broncos looked great today...
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ODF - 27 Mar 2022 10:36 PM
Marki, are you just realusing the The Kennel is full of weirdos. Nothing EVER pleases that bunch and most of the time a lot of them aren't even aware of the sh!t that they waffle.

There are some kennel contributors who provide serious, constructive comments. Unfortunately many just revel in inane, abusive, faux tough guy rubbish.
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ODF - 27 Mar 2022 10:36 PM
Marki, are you just realusing the The Kennel is full of weirdos. Nothing EVER pleases that bunch and most of the time a lot of them aren't even aware of the sh!t that they waffle.

Marki has a shared affinity with them. We could have been 3 from 3 or none from 3..small things change the penthouse to the outhouse. We need a modicum of luck which we haven't had. 
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I still think the 6 again is a shit rule fraught with corruption. It is inconsistent as I watched most games this weekend and very few set restarts called, but the second half of our game the bell was ringing like a Mr Whippy ice cream van on steroids. Now that's how to influence to outcome of a game...... They couldn't let us spoil Manly's new ground homecoming wankfest.
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Mooloolabadog - 28 Mar 2022 12:30 AM
ODF - 27 Mar 2022 10:36 PM

There are some kennel contributors who provide serious, constructive comments. Unfortunately many just revel in inane, abusive, faux tough guy rubbish.

Yes. 
And they type faster than most people talk!
Have they got voice to text on or something? 
I cant keep up during a game... 
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Steveswr33333 - 28 Mar 2022 9:39 AM
ODF - 27 Mar 2022 10:36 PM

Marki has a shared affinity with them. We could have been 3 from 3 or none from 3..small things change the penthouse to the outhouse. We need a modicum of luck which we haven't had. 

On the contrary.... I thought we had the lions share of luck against Manly. We probably deserved some set restarts in their half towards the back end which we didn't get. But I thought the ref gave some latitude when he could have penalised us on some ruck interferences too.

In the end it wasn't good or bad luck we didn't win. It was our inability to skip to a lead or close games out. Need to work on the ability to score tries within 3 sets of posession, at any stage of the game. At the moment, we score only 2 and 1 of those is opposition error.
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ODF - 28 Mar 2022 12:20 PM
I still think the 6 again is a shit rule fraught with corruption. It is inconsistent as I watched most games this weekend and very few set restarts called, but the second half of our game the bell was ringing like a Mr Whippy ice cream van on steroids. Now that's how to influence to outcome of a game...... They couldn't let us spoil Manly's new ground homecoming wankfest.

Unfortunately, I thought we deserved some.
I made a number of comments on TK about how stupid we were just begging for the ref to signal 6 again.

Need to work on our understanding of the refs 6-again threshold.
Yesterday, it didn't matter who the ref was. We were our own worst enemies. Only a blind ref would have saved us. 
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Marki - 28 Mar 2022 1:23 PM
ODF - 28 Mar 2022 12:20 PM

Unfortunately, I thought we deserved some.
I made a number of comments on TK about how stupid we were just begging for the ref to signal 6 again.

Need to work on our understanding of the refs 6-again threshold.
Yesterday, it didn't matter who the ref was. We were our own worst enemies. Only a blind ref would have saved us. 

On afew occasions, we had both tacklers on the ground holding down as much as possible or getting tangled with the tackled player.

Then, when 1 finally gets up, instead of going to marker while other is still on side of ruck, he retreats the 10m and leaves no one at marker.

That's just silly, and gifting them free metres from a dummy half play.

If I were Barrett, I'd make them work extra this week on timing the release from a tackle to ensure we get 1 guy at marker while other completes or holds the tackle.

Watch the storm do it. It's very intentional and efficient.
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Hethro unfortunately requires surgery, probably not season ending, but sounds like at least 6 eeeks.

Doorey and RFM still out injured, Baz just needs to find the best possible replacement which might even be Stimson.

Apart from that I was happy with the team changes give Wakeham and Burton a few weeks to see if they can strike up a combo.

Averillo should be considered for 14, or just given sometime in reserve grade to work on his game.

I know that there is lots we need to work on but this is close to the best side we can pick.

I would play Okunbor in the 2nd row in reserve grade and get him to do lots of catching practice.
If he gets fitter he might get faster, if he can't get faster he needs to get smarter, otherwise he will probably be a regular in reserve grade.

Averillo wearing 7 confuses people at best he is a 6 or a 1. He wants to play in the spine, the problem isn't a lack of talent or smarts it is inexerience and being stretched beyond his natural skill set.
IMO Wakeham is the only talented natural  7 in our NRL squad, Flanno is a long shot who mjght come good.

Averillo is good enough to be in the 17 or close to it, he can play a few positions, it is up to him to press his case.
Edited
3 Years Ago by hounddog
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ODF - 28 Mar 2022 12:20 PM
I still think the 6 again is a shit rule fraught with corruption. It is inconsistent as I watched most games this weekend and very few set restarts called, but the second half of our game the bell was ringing like a Mr Whippy ice cream van on steroids. Now that's how to influence to outcome of a game...... They couldn't let us spoil Manly's new ground homecoming wankfest.

I agree I thought the team played well the last three weeks have really been impressive especially the defence aspect .  It is a new team will take time to gel .I knew from the beginning yesterday the Bulldogs Will in for a tough night . The opening of the stadium and the media Manly Trbojevic wankfest was always going to work against us .
I think Baz should work on attack and try to get more decent ball out to the Fox. 
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Marki - 28 Mar 2022 1:23 PM
ODF - 28 Mar 2022 12:20 PM

Unfortunately, I thought we deserved some.
I made a number of comments on TK about how stupid we were just begging for the ref to signal 6 again.

Need to work on our understanding of the refs 6-again threshold.
Yesterday, it didn't matter who the ref was. We were our own worst enemies. Only a blind ref would have saved us. 

Unfortunately there is no standard threshold to calibrate your actions against 
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Mooloolabadog - 28 Mar 2022 2:34 PM
Marki - 28 Mar 2022 1:23 PM

Unfortunately there is no standard threshold to calibrate your actions against 

Sometimes a team concedes a 6 again when they are on top, more often when the opposition has earned a quick play the ball.

The refs are not consistent, and home crowd advantage often happens.

The coach and players can work on intensity, line speed, communication, organisation and technique in defence. Get the technical aspects right and discipline is less on an issue.

In attack, get the technical aspects right, high completions and tries often result.

More than anything we need to improve the communication, and execution in attack. Often what could be a try is breaking down to a cheap turnover.

At some stage I would like to see Cook as starting hooker with JMK on the bench.
Execution in attack starts with a pass from dummy-half, compared to the better sides, we are a bit off the pace here.

The refs will never get more consistent, so we need to lift our game.
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hounddog - 28 Mar 2022 1:46 PM
Hethro unfortunately requires surgery, probably not season ending, but sounds like at least 6 eeeks.

Doorey and RFM still out injured, Baz just needs to find the best possible replacement which might even be Stimson.

Apart from that I was happy with the team changes give Wakeham and Burton a few weeks to see if they can strike up a combo.

Averillo should be considered for 14, or just given sometime in reserve grade to work on his game.

I know that there is lots we need to work on but this is close to the best side we can pick.

I would play Okunbor in the 2nd row in reserve grade and get him to do lots of catching practice.
If he gets fitter he might get faster, if he can't get faster he needs to get smarter, otherwise he will probably be a regular in reserve grade.

Averillo wearing 7 confuses people at best he is a 6 or a 1. He wants to play in the spine, the problem isn't a lack of talent or smarts it is inexerience and being stretched beyond his natural skill set.
IMO Wakeham is the only talented natural  7 in our NRL squad, Flanno is a long shot who mjght come good.

Averillo is good enough to be in the 17 or close to it, he can play a few positions, it is up to him to press his case.

Okunbor is worse in the second row than the wing...if ever there was a case of needing a hypnotherapist it is he....he is built like a brick outhouse and has a bit of pace but for some reason just appears an easy target both in attack and defence
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Steveswr33333 - 28 Mar 2022 9:39 AM
ODF - 27 Mar 2022 10:36 PM

Marki has a shared affinity with them. We could have been 3 from 3 or none from 3..small things change the penthouse to the outhouse. We need a modicum of luck which we haven't had. 

It’s so true. If the Cows fullback was onside we are zero from three. If Burto could kick goals and the Broncos were penalised for a Shepard we are three from three. 

But the problem is. And I surprisingly agree with Marki on this. Is that we can’t score many try’s. And the ones we gave scored have come from individual efforts or a lucky bounce. We haven’t manufactured try’s. 

The best try we scored that was called back was when Avo passed to Burto who passed back inside to Dufty. That was a great planned move. And plays like that we’re building between those three. It’s why I have been so upset that Baz dropped Avo. 



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Micko - 28 Mar 2022 3:16 PM
Steveswr33333 - 28 Mar 2022 9:39 AM

It’s so true. If the Cows fullback was onside we are zero from three. If Burto could kick goals and the Broncos were penalised for a Shepard we are three from three. 

But the problem is. And I surprisingly agree with Marki on this. Is that we can’t score many try’s. And the ones we gave scored have come from individual efforts or a lucky bounce. We haven’t manufactured try’s. 

The best try we scored that was called back was when Avo passed to Burto who passed back inside to Dufty. That was a great planned move. And plays like that we’re building between those three. It’s why I have been so upset that Baz dropped Avo. 



I get the point.

So far Wakeham and Burton haven't struck up the same combination.
Now Baz has made the change I want to see Wakeham in the 7 for a few weeks.

Against Manly the Offload from our forwards were not so effective, wet conditions a factor. TPJ and King.

We have played wet-dry-wet, low scores for and against are partially due to the 2 wet games.

Dry-dry-dry gives a much better basis for honing the attack.
Against Manly with Hethro went off injured that weakened our pack and rotation, but my impression is that the forwards did not lay much of a platform.

This season we have the advantage of strike players who can create tries through individual efforts and we have the pace to score long range tries.

We really just need to keep practicing the basics, executing better passing and making smarter decisions. 
We need to consider the passing from dummy half.

Overall a big improvement on last season, to be expected but welcome.

We do make chances, we need to get better at taking them and improve the edge defence a bit.
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3 Years Ago by hounddog
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Steveswr33333 - 28 Mar 2022 2:54 PM
hounddog - 28 Mar 2022 1:46 PM

Okunbor is worse in the second row than the wing...if ever there was a case of needing a hypnotherapist it is he....he is built like a brick outhouse and has a bit of pace but for some reason just appears an easy target both in attack and defence

2nd row you are sometimes lined up on the opposition half for runs and kicks, size is an advantage.

I doubt that he will have the fitness / desire, but a stint of hard work never hurt anyone.

We are not winning games through the forwards, most high scores are built on a dominant pack.

Anything that can add to our strike in the forwards close to the line is welcome, Okunbor contesting a kick with a half should only ever have one outcome. That is an extra easy 5th tackle option.
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3 Years Ago by hounddog
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I also don't think TPJ and Hethro are thst great defensively on the edges.

In the defence column, we don't have a lot to lose.
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What I don't understand is why some are stating the glaring obvious and passing it off as our downfall. Of course we have to score more than the opposition to win the game and you are blaming the lack of points for our losses. Our defence has improved expotentially and off good defence, attack follows so be patient. There is no use scoring 10 tries a game if you are going to let in 12 or 13.
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ODF - 28 Mar 2022 6:53 PM
What I don't understand is why some are stating the glaring obvious and passing it off as our downfall. Of course we have to score more than the opposition to win the game and you are blaming the lack of points for our losses. Our defence has improved expotentially and off good defence, attack follows so be patient. There is no use scoring 10 tries a game if you are going to let in 12 or 13.

I don't think improving the attack means that we need to weaken the defence or change the side much.

I would try Cook at starting hooker sometime with JMK on the bench, that might improve attack and defence.

Apart from that the spine is pretty much set for this season, with the only likely question being Averillo or Wakeham.

Hethro being injured might force Baz to pick Stimson or Topine, which could improve the defence.

In attack we have enough strike players to score points, there is no big problem with the style we are attempting to play.

Our depth also seems good, this is the hard part of the season for us.
I would be happy to 5/5 after 10 rounds.

I think that we may spring the odd upset.

I agree with Baz, team spirt and effort look very good.
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Okunbor playing centre in reserve grade.

Leading 18-0 @at halftime.
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Maybe that's what he needed... building confidence in a team more suited to his ability (at the moment). There's nothing to say he might just pick up the skills necessary for FG.
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hounddog - 28 Mar 2022 3:38 PM
Micko - 28 Mar 2022 3:16 PM

I get the point.

So far Wakeham and Burton haven't struck up the same combination.
Now Baz has made the change I want to see Wakeham in the 7 for a few weeks.

Against Manly the Offload from our forwards were not so effective, wet conditions a factor. TPJ and King.

We have played wet-dry-wet, low scores for and against are partially due to the 2 wet games.

Dry-dry-dry gives a much better basis for honing the attack.
Against Manly with Hethro went off injured that weakened our pack and rotation, but my impression is that the forwards did not lay much of a platform.

This season we have the advantage of strike players who can create tries through individual efforts and we have the pace to score long range tries.

We really just need to keep practicing the basics, executing better passing and making smarter decisions. 
We need to consider the passing from dummy half.

Overall a big improvement on last season, to be expected but welcome.

We do make chances, we need to get better at taking them and improve the edge defence a bit.

I really want us to have moves for both left side attack and right side attack. When we get the ball around halfway or inside opposition half, with a full set of 6, I want to see us try 3 backline moves in the set. We can have a settler or a straight run or a dummy half run in between but it should be something like attack on plays 1, 3 and 5 with a reset play in between.

At the moment, it seems there is no plan and when there is no plan, we get Desball and we see 3 or 4 one out settler runs which are easy pickings for the defence and worse of all, gives the opposition plenty of time to number up.

We need to incite chaos in the defence. We need to get them when they are struggling to number up or even assess what is coming at them.

This is the blueprint of the Storm and more recently the Panthers and is also the reason the Raiders did well afew years back.



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ODF - 28 Mar 2022 6:53 PM
What I don't understand is why some are stating the glaring obvious and passing it off as our downfall. Of course we have to score more than the opposition to win the game and you are blaming the lack of points for our losses. Our defence has improved expotentially and off good defence, attack follows so be patient. There is no use scoring 10 tries a game if you are going to let in 12 or 13.

With the exception of last years rules, we have always had decent (better than most teams) defence.

It's never been our issue.

Our issue is attack. Full stop.
Always has been. 

Recent history (last 20 odd years) shows that our successful years are the ones when the team is scoring well. 
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Marki - 28 Mar 2022 10:06 PM
hounddog - 28 Mar 2022 3:38 PM

I really want us to have moves for both left side attack and right side attack. When we get the ball around halfway or inside opposition half, with a full set of 6, I want to see us try 3 backline moves in the set. We can have a settler or a straight run or a dummy half run in between but it should be something like attack on plays 1, 3 and 5 with a reset play in between.

At the moment, it seems there is no plan and when there is no plan, we get Desball and we see 3 or 4 one out settler runs which are easy pickings for the defence and worse of all, gives the opposition plenty of time to number up.

We need to incite chaos in the defence. We need to get them when they are struggling to number up or even assess what is coming at them.

This is the blueprint of the Storm and more recently the Panthers and is also the reason the Raiders did well afew years back.



Against Manly we ran out of juice to attack in the 2nd half.

But our side would be improved by 2nd rowers who can hit a hole, RFM and Doorey fit the bill.
All our halves Burton, Wakeham, Averillo and BBO can throw a good short pass.

Apart from that we need a few plays early in the set with props running hard over the add line or a run from dummy half.

A good hooker creates the roll on for his side establishing early momentum. The halves get a rest early in the set while momentum is built.

Too many passes being thrown early in a set, after an offload throw the passes.

When players get tired they don't have the energy to run hard.

The conditions didn't help passes were slower as a result.

Keep the faith we mostly have the players, but we might be missing  a few things.
1. A good starting hooker - Reed.
2. A good impact 2nd rower - Kicks.
3. A starting prop with good authority- my priority.
4. An experienced elder  statesman half- also a priorty  -doesn't need to be big dollars or to have succeeded in the NRL previously- mandatory 150+ games of NRL/Super league  with least 50 NRL games.

When we don't have 1..4 particularly 1. It is going to be a slow grind looking for steady improvement.
They are trying we might get there but we are still missing a few key building blocks.
Edited
3 Years Ago by hounddog
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