Mitchell who?  Nathan Brown to take out Cleary?

They’re all standards of your opinion, but The NRL doesn’t have to meet them to avoid liability. They only have to ensure they meet all current standards and practices,  which they are. In future there may be more, including yours, and if they’re smart they’ll keeep,up with them.

Trent Barret could have have had the same success in the house that Gus built.. with Nathan Cleary

That's the thing. We could have had both. Nathan wasn't signing anywhere until he had certainty of where his father would be. And this was all BEFORE he signed up with the Tigers.

Anyway water under the bridge.
You have to admit though, Ivan Cleary is a good coach. He took an unheralded Warriors team to a GF and now this star team. But he still had to get them up for a GF 3rd time running which is not easy to do. 

The requirement to provide a safe workplace is not an opinion it is a legislative requirement. Whether when push comes to shove repeated similar incidents can be defended will be the criteria. However we beg to differ.

Don’t want to be a doomsday prophet but after watching Penrith dominate this year I have grave concerns for Dogs in 23.
Our props are weak and our halfback is weak.
Thats a major issue 

Marki, under your own criteria, if we would’ve got Cleary before the Tigers job, he would’ve been and gone a long time by now.

It’s taken Ivan 20 years and his son to get where he is now. And remember for the bulk of those years, excepting the one flash in pan year with the Warriors, results have been bog or below bog average.

Under your own criteria of sacking a coach early in the season, Ivan would’ve lasted 1 season and half a dozen games, even with his son. You wouldn’t have had the patience for any more than that. He wouldn’t have turned us around in one season or three or four and you would’ve been onto the 2nd or 3rd coach during that time.

Penrith's defence is often overlooked because their attack is so good. They're well organised and players rarely miss tackles.

True- Warren Ryan was right when he said defence wins premierships

It's about steady improvement and certainly not regression. I gave Pay and Barrett 1 year to decide who to keep or let go from the out of contract players and then expected improvement in year 2.

Barrett clearly couldn't improve the team even with so many talented players in the roster. He had to go, no matter what. Pay was given slightly more leeway but was probably a victim of the timing of his tenure and the SC mess he still had to deal with. Either way, I said at the time he was most likely a stop-gap coach, and he was.

Yes, Cleary could have been that stop-gap also, but the fact Nathan would have joined him (and no doubt some other Panther players) I would imagine Ivan and Nathan would have guided us out of the bottom alot sooner than Pay / Barrett.

It is about taking a step forward in 2023, not winning the comp.

On form the Panthers might be hard to beat in 2023, their reserve grade hooker is a gun and will be a good replacement for Api.

Ciraldo had a lot to do with improving the Panthers defence, he should improve ours.

I am hoping that we sign a prop or 2 with some size.

Halfback basically anyone but Flanno will be a step forward. Short term probably Wakeham, long term probably Hayward.

In fact my hunch is that Hayward and Rajab are our version of Cleary and Luai. First time we make a GF it might be Hayward and Burton with Rajab on the bench, or Rajab could be playing lock or centre.

If we are looking for the next Terry Lamb style leader at the club Rajab is the man.

With Gus at the helm, I'm confident that we will keep and develop the good young players.

Hayward and Rajab together in the halves in the NRL is 2025 at the earliest.

I would like to improve prop for 2023, any chance of stumbling into the bottom of the top 8 depends on that. If we are weak at prop we will be lucky to finish much higher than 2022.

Nathan didn't join him at the Tigers.

How the Tigers progressed after signing Cleary as coach is a good guide to how we would have gone.

In fact the Tigers are a good guide to how hard it is to climb the ladder in the NRL. They have had name coaches a significant amount of of talent and some good young players. They had Teddy who is a truly elite talent.

Where did they go wrong? Signing Reynolds and Mbye on big money was part of it.

But the big part was failing to establish the right standards and leadership in the club. At the Panthers, the players are setting the standards, Cleary, Yeo, Fisher-Harris, Edwards, Martin and others, as a result they are an easy side to coach.
When the players set the standard it is far better than the coach attempting to set the standard, Maguire tried and failed at the Tigers.

Players at the Dogs who will help set the standard.

Jackson, Burton, Mahoney, Topine, King, Kiraz, Schoupp.

We have some dedicated competitors, but a team can never have too many.

Once the competitive core is there, other players get dragged along in the wave or are exposed and discarded.

Winning is 75% doing the hard work, after that 25% talent and composure kicks in.

Maybe add JAC to the list.

I will when I see smarter decisions in defence.

In attack, the Fox is a leader.

We just need our forwards to run onto the Reed Mahoney passes. But we definitely need creativity in the halves. Either Burton needs to pull his finger out and step up or we need Wakeham. We cannot think top 8 with Flanno at halfback and Burton not stepping up. 

The other reason that the Panthers are doing well, is their emphasis on being a development club and good recruitment and retention decisions.

I give Gus a lot of credit for that, at the Dogs we need to do a better job of scouting than the Panthers, but there is talent in our junior clubs.

Back in the 1970s, Bullfrog was big on scouting and smart recruitment, Mal Clift had all grades playing the same style, and we had an emphasis on development.

In recent seasons the Storm, Panthers and even partially the Roosters have had a lot of success using a formula similar to what the Dogs used for most of the 70s, 80s and 90s. Thst isn't surprising as it is the best way to achieve results and a logical thing to do.

Returning to our core DNA should be easy for us.

We rarely have an abundance of lower grade talent, but we only need to promote 3-4 NRL standard players each year.

As at the Panthers, having an NRL squad full of players who played together in the lower grades is an advantage 

I agree with most of this.

Mahoney passes will definitely help, but we need more from the forwards and the halves.

As far as GF entertainment. The NRL should just alternate yearly between Jimmy Barnes and Cold Chisel. Best GF show before this year was Cold Chisel. Best Gf show since Cold Chisel was Jimmy Barnes.

They get it. Even at 80 or whatever they are.

And he wore the same boots!

You mentioned dedicated competitors JAC is that and more. Then again, if it's based on ability, as you say with JAC, maybe Schoupp as a centre could learn how to set his winger up 

It's the type of songs....
"Ain't no second prize" and "Lay down your guns and surrender" are anthem lyrics and song titles that can relate to rugby league (or any sport for that matter).

They are also rock anthems which get the crowd going....there's afew other tracks that get the blood racing....

I love the track from the Script called Hall of Fame. It unfortunately haunts me abit from the 2014 GF, but I love it nonetheless. 

I remember Grinspoon smashing GF entertainment… though Im probably biased…

I will add JAC to the list as I think that the coaches will sort out his decision making.The problem isn't laziness perhaps just trying too hard or lacking patience.

Overall the big area where we can improve is defensive linespeed and that might be a better fit for the forwards that we do have and will make life easier for the edge defenders.

Fast linespeed can neutralise any size advantage that the opposition has, gang tackle the big boys before they get moving. 

If improved service from dummy-half can speed up our attack and add variety we might win the ruck and the yardage battle.

In so many games the side has hung in bravely, defended our line and tried hard for the full 80 mins while losing the ruck and the yardage battle. We have the strike to post points given opportunities especially with Kicks added to the side.

If the rules are applied gang tackling the big guys before they get moving is not possible. The defence back 10 and can't advance until the ball leaves the ball players foot. The attack taking the ball at speed at the advantage line. It's not possible.
Line speed is the defence cribbing a little, but not too much as to be blatant, but more importantly going together. It is easy for the ref if one player goes before the rest. Of course you can always test the ref to see where the parameters of the day are 

Not hard to believe a comment about women’s AFL being of a very ordinary standard has received such significant coverage…

Cos it’s 2022 and you can’t tell the truth… 

The mens game is awful enough, and it’s definitely more entertaining and skilful than the other offering…

Linespeed and tackle/wrestle technique are areas where we could improve, at the expense of the occasional penalty.

It would also be good to get more size and in particular a big prop who is up to the physical challenge and hits hard in tackles.

I am sure Gus and Ciraldo know what wins football games, I am looking forward to the 2023 version of the Dogs, because our time in the wilderness should be over.

Very ordinary is a complement and means that the women's AFL is better than the men's.

When there are no seagulls fighting over a chip on TV, no real sport on and the only movie option is Jane Austen, the women's game might be work watching, but it is probably the ideal time to mow the lawn, even if you mowed it 1 hour ago.

Next doors lawn could also do with a trim…

Ditto women's RL

I don’t think the two are comparable… 

Courtesy of touch footy the RL girls are a long way in front of the WAFL…