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dman2018
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I reckon it’s a little difficult to judge whether he is a better hooker than lock at this point in time considering how little take he has played... 
Melbourne thought he was a good enough replacement for his namesake until the freak that is HDs boyfriend hit the scene...
Cheese will have plenty to prove at 9, and will be champing at the bit to get one over Grant in NV’L then In the test scene...
Easily the best option currently available for ‘22, and will play 80 minutes on his ear... 
Making him an offer to play his preferred position is the right thing to do...
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dman2018 - 8 Dec 2020 2:16 PM
I reckon it’s a little difficult to judge whether he is a better hooker than lock at this point in time considering how little take he has played... 
Melbourne thought he was a good enough replacement for his namesake until the freak that is HDs boyfriend hit the scene...
Cheese will have plenty to prove at 9, and will be champing at the bit to get one over Grant in NV’L then In the test scene...
Easily the best option currently available for ‘22, and will play 80 minutes on his ear... 
Making him an offer to play his preferred position is the right thing to do...

If he agitates, we might even get him earlier 
But we need to be prepared to go after him even on big bucks.
I think afew too many people think if we sign him on big bucks for 2 or 3 years, that we are stuck with him and have to pay him that much for any contract thereafter. Well, we dont.
We dont have any big money players so we can afford to splash it on him. In 2 or 3 years if a higher profile player is on the market, we can cut him loose or offer him less.
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dogbone - 8 Dec 2020 11:30 AM
Imagine after watching the absolute shit dished up from our dummy halves ever since Ennis left in 2014 and not wanting to throw the fucking bank at Brandon Smith? Yes not $1m a year but I'd be more than happy for a player like him to get $7-800 if that's what it takes. He will compliment our halves and fire up our forward pack. 

Good post. 
With Flanagan, Burton and Lewis, we have enough organising halves who can kick. All we need from the hooker is to run. Run bloody run
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Marki - 8 Dec 2020 4:18 PM
dogbone - 8 Dec 2020 11:30 AM

Good post. 
With Flanagan, Burton and Lewis, we have enough organising halves who can kick. All we need from the hooker is to run. Run bloody run

Cheese has a sneaky little kicking game close to the line, and used sparingly at the right time adds to the decisions defenders have to make...

I can’t reconcile moving him to lock Mid game to bring on the likes of a JMK... it would be pointless... JMK on the bench to cover injuries to backline and spine is a luxury not a necessity... The two hooker thing only works if you’ve got two pretty damn good hookers... 

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dman2018 - 8 Dec 2020 4:32 PM
Marki - 8 Dec 2020 4:18 PM

Cheese has a sneaky little kicking game close to the line, and used sparingly at the right time adds to the decisions defenders have to make...

I can’t reconcile moving him to lock Mid game to bring on the likes of a JMK... it would be pointless... JMK on the bench to cover injuries to backline and spine is a luxury not a necessity... The two hooker thing only works if you’ve got two pretty damn good hookers... 

The Cheese can play 80 so we can try both approaches.

JMK off the bench is to come on fresh and run at tired defence, JMK can play 14, he is an ordinary starting hooker.
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The cheese is the best signing we can make from the options available. He plays in the position we desperately need to fill. 

I don’t think judging him from his stint at 9 this year is fair. C.Smith played half and the 5/8th was a runner more than a playmaker. It’s also hard to take on the booking role when the best Hooker the game has ever seen us calling for the ball at halfback. 

I think Cheese can fit in perfectly with Flange and Burton who are both dominant playmakers. Allowing Cheese to run at every chance. The game will probably change somewhat to slow the ruck down, that would benefit him. 

I would have him over most other hookers in the game. He has aggression, enthusiasm, football smarts and is a winner. He might be that final piece of the puzzle. The Fox and the Cheess please

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Mick O, although what you say is mostly fact there is one thing I cannot agree with you on, and that is Cameron Smith being the best hooker the game has seen. I have been watching the game since 1960 and I can tell you there has been some cracker hookers over the past six decades. Smith maybe the best No.9 in the modern era, but hardly the best ever. Who knows, the best No.9 to ever play the game has probably not been even born yet.
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You blokes are all talking about Cheese the middle forward as Cheese the DH.

He’s not the same player. Would anyone here wanting Cheese as a DH say he plays better football at DH than he does as a back rower? Anyone? Really, honestly, not just for the sake of argument? No you wouldn’t would you, because you know you couldn’t.

So, the plan is to buy him and play him in a position where it means he’ll play below his best every game, and then pay him more for it.

That’s the plan?

why not just offer him back rower money, to play back row, and if he knock it back then stiff sh.t.


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ODF - 9 Dec 2020 6:01 AM
Mick O, although what you say is mostly fact there is one thing I cannot agree with you on, and that is Cameron Smith being the best hooker the game has seen. I have been watching the game since 1960 and I can tell you there has been some cracker hookers over the past six decades. Smith maybe the best No.9 in the modern era, but hardly the best ever. Who knows, the best No.9 to ever play the game has probably not been even born yet.

The first question to ask when deciding who is the best in any position is. "When is the game being played"?  The requirements of virtually all positions has changed over the years.
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ODF - 9 Dec 2020 6:01 AM
Mick O, although what you say is mostly fact there is one thing I cannot agree with you on, and that is Cameron Smith being the best hooker the game has seen. I have been watching the game since 1960 and I can tell you there has been some cracker hookers over the past six decades. Smith maybe the best No.9 in the modern era, but hardly the best ever. Who knows, the best No.9 to ever play the game has probably not been even born yet.

That’s a fair point. Cam Smith is the best hooker I have seen in my lifetime. So roughly the last forty years. I would probably go as far as calling him the best player I have seen. But it’s just my humble opinion 
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Zef - 9 Dec 2020 7:33 AM
You blokes are all talking about Cheese the middle forward as Cheese the DH.

He’s not the same player. Would anyone here wanting Cheese as a DH say he plays better football at DH than he does as a back rower? Anyone? Really, honestly, not just for the sake of argument? No you wouldn’t would you, because you know you couldn’t.

So, the plan is to buy him and play him in a position where it means he’ll play below his best every game, and then pay him more for it.

That’s the plan?

why not just offer him back rower money, to play back row, and if he knock it back then stiff sh.t.


Do you know he isn’t the same player that we have seen in the past? Do any of us? He became a running forward to fit the team. He isn’t a natural second rower. Have we seen his best in either role? 

With a good off season he should be able to play his best footy in the number 9 jersey. Especially because we have two playmakers and a coach who will demand they call for the ball. He may be a better buy then a hooker who controls the game. 

Yes, I see your point in not wanting to spend big money on a player who doesn’t currently play in the spine. It is a gamble. But with most of the team off contract next year we can afford that gamble. 

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Zef - 9 Dec 2020 7:33 AM
You blokes are all talking about Cheese the middle forward as Cheese the DH.

He’s not the same player. Would anyone here wanting Cheese as a DH say he plays better football at DH than he does as a back rower? Anyone? Really, honestly, not just for the sake of argument? No you wouldn’t would you, because you know you couldn’t.

So, the plan is to buy him and play him in a position where it means he’ll play below his best every game, and then pay him more for it.

That’s the plan?

why not just offer him back rower money, to play back row, and if he knock it back then stiff sh.t.


He sees himself as a DH, that is where he played the majority of his career before he came to the Storm.

You are overly focused on the money, he may come for less, if he gets a crack at his preferred position.

If money is the only object, maybe there is a number we can't agree on.

But he will not come for less, if we tell him he can't play his preferred position.

Unless Wakeham makes the cut, any alternative currently DH at the club is probably under 20.

I can't think of a proven quality DH playing NRL who we can sign anytime soon.

The Storm might not let him go early.

The Cheese is worth talking to as there are not many other alternatives, if we have a price in mind, stick to our price.
Position wise give him a crack, he needs to perform to keep the spot, that is if he accepts our offer


Edited
3 Months Ago by hounddog
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hounddog - 9 Dec 2020 3:02 PM
You are overly focused on the money, he may come for less, if he gets a crack at his preferred position.


No I’m not actually.

I’m focussed on his best football, by plenty, has consistently been played in the back row. He’s not the same footballer at DH. And as a DH, he’s got no game management skills, he doesn’t scoot and has a terrible pass. The best that can be said is he’ll bulldoze some metres, back rower style, and tackle all day.

I just see no point in playing him in a position that will see him playing below his best. That’s the whole point.

I’d actually pay him elite back rower money, the highest in the game to get him. But he’d be playing back row all game every game.

No matter what he thinks he is. Ask any footballer in the game where they see themselves as playing best and every one of them will answer either 1, 6, 7, or 9. So pay no attention to that. Pay more attention to what the best NRL coach of the modern era, perhaps of all time, thinks.

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Zef - 9 Dec 2020 7:33 AM
You blokes are all talking about Cheese the middle forward as Cheese the DH.

He’s not the same player. Would anyone here wanting Cheese as a DH say he plays better football at DH than he does as a back rower? Anyone? Really, honestly, not just for the sake of argument? No you wouldn’t would you, because you know you couldn’t.

So, the plan is to buy him and play him in a position where it means he’ll play below his best every game, and then pay him more for it.

That’s the plan?

why not just offer him back rower money, to play back row, and if he knock it back then stiff sh.t.


I don’t reckon anyone has seen enough of him playing at 9, and regularly so to be able to come to that conclusion...
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dman2018 - 9 Dec 2020 4:29 PM
Zef - 9 Dec 2020 7:33 AM

I don’t reckon anyone has seen enough of him playing at 9, and regularly so to be able to come to that conclusion...

We haven't seen enough of him playing 9 to come to any conclusion.

I would like to see more of his passing game, Zef says it is terrible, I don't remember that.

Smith and Grant are smarter and throw lots of excellent passes, at the Storm the competition is stiff.

At the Dogs, JMK is average at best.

Even if his passing was no better than JMK he is an upgrade on what we have, defence is way better,  impact running the ball is better.

If his passing is worse than JMK, we tell him he is playing lock,
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Zef - 9 Dec 2020 7:33 AM
You blokes are all talking about Cheese the middle forward as Cheese the DH.

He’s not the same player. Would anyone here wanting Cheese as a DH say he plays better football at DH than he does as a back rower? Anyone? Really, honestly, not just for the sake of argument? No you wouldn’t would you, because you know you couldn’t.

So, the plan is to buy him and play him in a position where it means he’ll play below his best every game, and then pay him more for it.

That’s the plan?

why not just offer him back rower money, to play back row, and if he knock it back then stiff sh.t.


Because we exist to try and win premierships. 
That's why.

If he is the best available hooker, irrespective of him being the best fullback or halfback, then we play him at hooker and yes we pay him hooker money if that's what it takes.

We have not been able to get Api, Starling, Grant, etc. Its time we set our goals and achieved them.
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Micko - 9 Dec 2020 1:01 PM
ODF - 9 Dec 2020 6:01 AM

That’s a fair point. Cam Smith is the best hooker I have seen in my lifetime. So roughly the last forty years. I would probably go as far as calling him the best player I have seen. But it’s just my humble opinion 

I wouldn't call him the most entertaining hooker....but certainly the most influential/valuable and that makes him the best IMO.
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Zef - 9 Dec 2020 3:48 PM
hounddog - 9 Dec 2020 3:02 PM

No I’m not actually.

I’m focussed on his best football, by plenty, has consistently been played in the back row. He’s not the same footballer at DH. And as a DH, he’s got no game management skills, he doesn’t scoot and has a terrible pass. The best that can be said is he’ll bulldoze some metres, back rower style, and tackle all day.

I just see no point in playing him in a position that will see him playing below his best. That’s the whole point.

I’d actually pay him elite back rower money, the highest in the game to get him. But he’d be playing back row all game every game.

No matter what he thinks he is. Ask any footballer in the game where they see themselves as playing best and every one of them will answer either 1, 6, 7, or 9. So pay no attention to that. Pay more attention to what the best NRL coach of the modern era, perhaps of all time, thinks.

The only reason he isnt playing hooker for the storm is because 2 other guys are better than him. 
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hounddog - 9 Dec 2020 5:44 PM
dman2018 - 9 Dec 2020 4:29 PM

We haven't seen enough of him playing 9 to come to any conclusion.

I would like to see more of his passing game, Zef says it is terrible, I don't remember that.

Smith and Grant are smarter and throw lots of excellent passes, at the Storm the competition is stiff.

At the Dogs, JMK is average at best.

Even if his passing was no better than JMK he is an upgrade on what we have, defence is way better,  impact running the ball is better.

If his passing is worse than JMK, we tell him he is playing lock,

I cant believe we are debating the value of a player who is better than anyone we currently have in that position, and even if he fails in that position, he becomes the best 2nd rower in the team anyway!!!

What is the cost of versatility? Nothing?
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hounddog - 9 Dec 2020 5:44 PM
dman2018 - 9 Dec 2020 4:29 PM

We haven't seen enough of him playing 9 to come to any conclusion.

I would like to see more of his passing game, Zef says it is terrible, I don't remember that.

Smith and Grant are smarter and throw lots of excellent passes, at the Storm the competition is stiff.

At the Dogs, JMK is average at best.

Even if his passing was no better than JMK he is an upgrade on what we have, defence is way better,  impact running the ball is better.

If his passing is worse than JMK, we tell him he is playing lock,

There is a definite memory of his passing being awful in the last game he played majority at rake... but I won’t judge him in one game that sticks in my mind... 
thinking maybe he was a little rusty and perhaps trying too hard... but no reason to write him off at hooker...

And what is this thing with hooker money???.. There wouldn’t be too many hookers around on big coin... Hunt doesn’t count... So maybe Cam, Hodgo, Cook...

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dman2018 - 9 Dec 2020 6:02 PM
hounddog - 9 Dec 2020 5:44 PM

There is a definite memory of his passing being awful in the last game he played majority at rake... but I won’t judge him in one game that sticks in my mind... 
thinking maybe he was a little rusty and perhaps trying too hard... but no reason to write him off at hooker...

And what is this thing with hooker money???.. There wouldn’t be too many hookers around on big coin... Hunt doesn’t count... So maybe Cam, Hodgo, Cook...

That's right.
He's probably on 500k now and asking for at least 600k. So give it. And tell him he gets a bonus 100k in first year if he agitates and gets released for '21
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Marki - 9 Dec 2020 7:50 PM
dman2018 - 9 Dec 2020 6:02 PM

That's right.
He's probably on 500k now and asking for at least 600k. So give it. And tell him he gets a bonus 100k in first year if he agitates and gets released for '21

Its business fekken....
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Marki - 9 Dec 2020 7:50 PM

type your messageThat's right.
He's probably on 500k now and asking for at least 600k. So give it. And tell him he gets a bonus 100k in first year if he agitates and gets released for '21
You were talking about giving a million, like everybody else that catches your eye.

And if The Tigers are in the game, it mightn’t be far off. Because They think like you - everyone gets a million. Even JR.


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I’d still like to know if anybody thinks he’s a better DH  than back rower.

whether he’s a good... great... player is not in dispute. I’d love to have him at The Dogs, and I’d pay a premium to get him here, but I’d play him where he plays best.

And is there anybody who would think that’s at DH?
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I know Dman & HD have been waiting patiently for my expertise & views on B Smith....

1000% we should go hard for him @ 9


Won’t be long before we’ll have Burton/Flanagan combo controlling things... I couldn’t care less if B Smith can’t kick a ball, his natural aggression, enthusiasm & winning attitude is surely worth 4 to 8 points each week for the team at both ends of the field

Lichaa & JMK wouldn’t hurt a fly.... Katoa has a little something in him, but he also has a number of weaknesses too..... B Smith would be exactly what our pack needs. 


Ok I’m off now...

Edited
3 Months Ago by Villi
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Zef - 9 Dec 2020 8:13 PM
I’d still like to know if anybody thinks he’s a better DH  than back rower.

whether he’s a good... great... player is not in dispute. I’d love to have him at The Dogs, and I’d pay a premium to get him here, but I’d play him where he plays best.

And is there anybody who would think that’s at DH?

I want to see him play 5 games in a row at DH, consecutive weeks. I've barely seen him play DH fullstop,

Our club has some good backrow options, he is still worth getting as a backrower, but Elliott, Jackson, Thompson and RFM are 4 of our options at lock, so if he is equally good at DH and lock, I would start him at DH.
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Villi - 9 Dec 2020 9:14 PM
I know Dman & HD have been waiting patiently for my expertise & views on B Smith....

1000% we should go hard for him @ 9


Won’t be long before we’ll have Burton/Flanagan combo controlling things... I couldn’t care less if B Smith can’t kick a ball, his natural aggression, enthusiasm & winning attitude is surely worth 4 to 8 points each week for the team at both ends of the field

Lichaa & JMK wouldn’t hurt a fly.... Katoa has a little something in him, but he also has a number of weaknesses too..... B Smith would be exactly what our pack needs. 


Ok I’m off now...

The NRL guru has spoken...
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Zef - 9 Dec 2020 7:59 PM
Marki - 9 Dec 2020 7:50 PM
You were talking about giving a million, like everybody else that catches your eye.

And if The Tigers are in the game, it mightn’t be far off. Because They think like you - everyone gets a million. Even JR.


I'd rather give the 1M to him than pay overs for the rest of the squad just because we have to fill 95% of our cap allowance....

This club didn't get into trouble paying too much for a few good players.....it got into SC trouble by paying too much to average players and had th er ir contracts all expire at the same bloody time.
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Zef - 9 Dec 2020 8:13 PM
I’d still like to know if anybody thinks he’s a better DH  than back rower.

whether he’s a good... great... player is not in dispute. I’d love to have him at The Dogs, and I’d pay a premium to get him here, but I’d play him where he plays best.

And is there anybody who would think that’s at DH?

Team first, players best position 2nd.
That's how it has to be.

We are not here trying to get him a backrow rep position or for him to win Dally M backrower of the year Zef.

We want what is best for the team. Her him.at hooker and put the wheels in motion to get an even better hooker next time they are on the market. Then move him to the backrow if needed.
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Zef - 9 Dec 2020 8:13 PM
I’d still like to know if anybody thinks he’s a better DH  than back rower.

whether he’s a good... great... player is not in dispute. I’d love to have him at The Dogs, and I’d pay a premium to get him here, but I’d play him where he plays best.

And is there anybody who would think that’s at DH?

I think he could be a better dummy half than back rower. Currently he isn’t. But the point is that if he trains the offseason at hooker he might be just as good there as he is as a running forward. 

I would love to see him in the team after an offseason of him training at hooker. And we have no better option. 

GO


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