Do former pros always make the best coaches?


Do former pros always make the best coaches?

Author
Message
Decentric
Decentric
Legend
Legend (22K reputation)Legend (22K reputation)Legend (22K reputation)Legend (22K reputation)Legend (22K reputation)Legend (22K reputation)Legend (22K reputation)Legend (22K reputation)Legend (22K reputation)Legend (22K reputation)Legend (22K reputation)

Group: Forum Members
Posts: 21K, Visits: 0
There  has been a view expressed elsewhere on this forum, that former pros always make the best coaches.

At the top level, Arriga Sacchi, Gerard Houllier, Jose Mourinho, Brendan Rodgers, Holger Osieck, current English coach, Steve Holland, and mooted HAL coach, Arthur Papas have not been finer pros.

I've coached with and know a lot of former pros. I'll go down the list of what they've done since their pro careers.

Player A 

Now  teacher and  former engineer, who played for one of the biggest NSL clubs. Huge ego, and has done no coaching since  his pro career, because he didn't like coaching  NSL Youth.



Player B

Former NSL player who dominated local league as a player after his NSL retirement. I replaced him as under 14 Southern Tas coach. FFA staff thought he sent players backwards, because he rejected the FFA NC and current plaining formations. Always coaches from sidelines in matches. Onus is now on doing it all on the training track, and letting players make their own mistakes. Lack of creativity inghis players. Controversial figure.



Player C

Former pro in Scottish league. Has done no coaching since retirement. Now an optometrist. Charming bloke.



Player D

Former pro with FC Koln. Qualified success as NPL coach. Great bloke. Very popular with players.



Player E.

Former pro with Panathanikos

Terrific bloke and successful youth NPL coach and senior  NPL level. I've done a lot of co-coaching with him. He thinks I coach too many concepts at once, compared to him. Very popular with players.



Player F

Former NSL player. Also a current chef. Another good bloke. Looked like he was going to coach NPL seniors after doing a lot of badges. Work interfered.






Edited
Last Year by Decentric
AJF
AJF
Semi-Pro
Semi-Pro (1.4K reputation)Semi-Pro (1.4K reputation)Semi-Pro (1.4K reputation)Semi-Pro (1.4K reputation)Semi-Pro (1.4K reputation)Semi-Pro (1.4K reputation)Semi-Pro (1.4K reputation)Semi-Pro (1.4K reputation)Semi-Pro (1.4K reputation)Semi-Pro (1.4K reputation)Semi-Pro (1.4K reputation)

Group: Forum Members
Posts: 1.4K, Visits: 0
Lets look at what the recent FIFA Coach of the Year Winners tell us:

 
Year  Winner Senior Appearances
2010 José Mourinho 94
2011 Pep Guardiola 380
2012 Vicente del Bosque 518
2013 Jupp Heynckes 394
2014 Joachim Löw 304
2015 Luis Enrique 427
2016 Claudio Ranieri 363
2017 Zinedine Zidane 506

Affirmative








Decentric
Decentric
Legend
Legend (22K reputation)Legend (22K reputation)Legend (22K reputation)Legend (22K reputation)Legend (22K reputation)Legend (22K reputation)Legend (22K reputation)Legend (22K reputation)Legend (22K reputation)Legend (22K reputation)Legend (22K reputation)

Group: Forum Members
Posts: 21K, Visits: 0
Player G

Ostensibly a former pro. Nobody can verify his career. NTC coach, one of Oz's top keeper coaches, and a FFA coach educator. 85 % of people  who know him hate his guts. Good structural  coach of shape. His players are in too many queues for effective technical development. Very controversial figure in Oz football. Biggest bastard, and only one, I've met face to face through football. Reluctantly, I have to admit I've learnt a lot from him.



Player H

Former NSL and Young Socceroo player. Was FFA state TD, a FFA coach educator and NPL senior coach. Very popular with players and coaches he meets. Many claim to have learnt a lot from him, including me. Charming bloke. As a NPL senior coach didn't have the success expected. Some thought his coaching methodology went over NPL players' heads.



Player I

Former English Lower league pro. Has never coached. Great bloke.



Player J  

NSL pro with one of the biggest clubs. Good bloke who has never coached.



Player K

Former Sporting Lisbon Youth player. Amazing skill. Has never coached. Good bloke.














Edited
Last Year by Decentric
Decentric
Decentric
Legend
Legend (22K reputation)Legend (22K reputation)Legend (22K reputation)Legend (22K reputation)Legend (22K reputation)Legend (22K reputation)Legend (22K reputation)Legend (22K reputation)Legend (22K reputation)Legend (22K reputation)Legend (22K reputation)

Group: Forum Members
Posts: 21K, Visits: 0
Decentric - 13 Jul 2018 4:06 PM
Player G

Ostensibly a former pro. Nobody can verify his career. NTC coach, one of Oz's top keeper coaches, and a FFA coach educator. 85 % of people  who know him hate his guts. Good structural  coach of shape. His players are in too many queues for effective technical development. Very controversial figure in Oz football. Biggest bastard, and only one, I've met face to face through football. Reluctantly, I have to admit I've learnt a lot from him.



Player H

Former NSL and Young Socceroo payer. Was FFA state TD, a FFA coach educator and NPL senior coach. Very popular with players and coaches he meets. Many claim to have learnt a lot from him, including me. Charming bloke. As a NPL senior coach didn't have the success expected. Some thought his coaching methodology went over NPL players' heads.



Player I

Former English Lower league pro. Has never coached. Great bloke.



Player J  

NSL pro with one of the biggest clubs. Good bloke who has never coached.



Player K

Former Sporting Lisbon Youth player. Amazing skill. Has never coached. Good bloke.
















Coach B and G hate each other's guts.
LFC.
LFC.
World Class
World Class (6.7K reputation)World Class (6.7K reputation)World Class (6.7K reputation)World Class (6.7K reputation)World Class (6.7K reputation)World Class (6.7K reputation)World Class (6.7K reputation)World Class (6.7K reputation)World Class (6.7K reputation)World Class (6.7K reputation)World Class (6.7K reputation)

Group: Forum Members
Posts: 6.6K, Visits: 0
AJF - 13 Jul 2018 3:01 PM
Lets look at what the recent FIFA Coach of the Year Winners tell us:

 
Year  Winner Senior Appearances
2010 José Mourinho 94
2011 Pep Guardiola 380
2012 Vicente del Bosque 518
2013 Jupp Heynckes 394
2014 Joachim Löw 304
2015 Luis Enrique 427
2016 Claudio Ranieri 363
2017 Zinedine Zidane 506

Affirmative

Carlo Ancelotti Runner up FIFA 2014 plus many other honours.
what about a bloke called Johan
Klopp hasn't done too bad as an ex player


I don't think its right to say every ex pro would be the best coach but there is quite a few good ones isn't there and you could add a number more.

theFOOTBALLlover
theFOOTBALLlover
Rising Star
Rising Star (957 reputation)Rising Star (957 reputation)Rising Star (957 reputation)Rising Star (957 reputation)Rising Star (957 reputation)Rising Star (957 reputation)Rising Star (957 reputation)Rising Star (957 reputation)Rising Star (957 reputation)Rising Star (957 reputation)Rising Star (957 reputation)

Group: Forum Members
Posts: 929, Visits: 0
Ex pros have an advantage because they are exposed to a higher standard of coaching. However, they need to be able to apply that knowledge into a proper team model and coach the players to execute that model. Not every ex player can do it well.

Coaches without the professional playing experience can learn in their own way, especially if they work under good coaches. This is an issue in Australia because there are very few GOOD coaches so developing coaches aren't exposed to a higher standard of coaching apart from a two week advanced course. 

There a plenty of examples for each. 
Decentric
Decentric
Legend
Legend (22K reputation)Legend (22K reputation)Legend (22K reputation)Legend (22K reputation)Legend (22K reputation)Legend (22K reputation)Legend (22K reputation)Legend (22K reputation)Legend (22K reputation)Legend (22K reputation)Legend (22K reputation)

Group: Forum Members
Posts: 21K, Visits: 0
theFOOTBALLlover - 14 Jul 2018 1:38 PM
Ex pros have an advantage because they are exposed to a higher standard of coaching. However, they need to be able to apply that knowledge into a proper team model and coach the players to execute that model. Not every ex player can do it well.

Coaches without the professional playing experience can learn in their own way, especially if they work under good coaches. This is an issue in Australia because there are very few GOOD coaches so developing coaches aren't exposed to a higher standard of coaching apart from a two week advanced course. 

There a plenty of examples for each. 



I've heard of many coaches doing their badges, then disappearing into isolation for years before turning up to do a new badge.

I was lucky enough to have ongoing tuition, whether I wanted it or not, or actively sought it out. Now I'm not sure, sometimes, where I've learnt various things.

I have had a lot of exposure to many staff FFA coaches in the state coaching milieu after, and between, coaching courses. Also, they constantly bring HAL coaching staff and other senior FFA coaches in to do workshops. Apart from Kelly Cross, just about all FFA senior coaches in the organisation at national level, are former pros.
localstar
localstar
Semi-Pro
Semi-Pro (1.7K reputation)Semi-Pro (1.7K reputation)Semi-Pro (1.7K reputation)Semi-Pro (1.7K reputation)Semi-Pro (1.7K reputation)Semi-Pro (1.7K reputation)Semi-Pro (1.7K reputation)Semi-Pro (1.7K reputation)Semi-Pro (1.7K reputation)Semi-Pro (1.7K reputation)Semi-Pro (1.7K reputation)

Group: Forum Members
Posts: 1.6K, Visits: 0
Classic name dropping exercise from decentric.. without the names!
Benjamin
Benjamin
Legend
Legend (23K reputation)Legend (23K reputation)Legend (23K reputation)Legend (23K reputation)Legend (23K reputation)Legend (23K reputation)Legend (23K reputation)Legend (23K reputation)Legend (23K reputation)Legend (23K reputation)Legend (23K reputation)

Group: Moderators
Posts: 23K, Visits: 0
General rule of thumb is that the more football you played, the better a coach you will be.  The football played doesn't have to be at the highest level - but it had to be on the pitch.  That's where a true understanding of the game is developed.

There are figures coaching youths in Australia right now who I would suspect have never played a season of competitive football in their lives - but have read lots of books about coaching, been on a few approved courses, and could regurgitate all of the FFA's mantras hitting all the key watch-words, but wouldn't have a clue about how to actually coach a team to any level of success.  To be fair, such coaches no doubt exist in Europe as well (but I never ran into any of them).


Decentric
Decentric
Legend
Legend (22K reputation)Legend (22K reputation)Legend (22K reputation)Legend (22K reputation)Legend (22K reputation)Legend (22K reputation)Legend (22K reputation)Legend (22K reputation)Legend (22K reputation)Legend (22K reputation)Legend (22K reputation)

Group: Forum Members
Posts: 21K, Visits: 0
-------
Edited
Last Year by Decentric
Decentric
Decentric
Legend
Legend (22K reputation)Legend (22K reputation)Legend (22K reputation)Legend (22K reputation)Legend (22K reputation)Legend (22K reputation)Legend (22K reputation)Legend (22K reputation)Legend (22K reputation)Legend (22K reputation)Legend (22K reputation)

Group: Forum Members
Posts: 21K, Visits: 0
Benjamin - 20 Jul 2018 10:53 AM


There are figures coaching youths in Australia right now who I would suspect have never played a season of competitive football in their lives - but have read lots of books about coaching, been on a few approved courses, and could regurgitate all of the FFA's mantras hitting all the key watch-words, but wouldn't have a clue about how to actually coach a team to any level of success.  



I don't think I've met any - yet.

Only at junior level there are some suburban parents who draw the short straw to coach their kids' teams. Not in NPL clubs, or even suburban ones for youth cioaching though.
Edited
Last Year by Decentric
Judy Free
Judy Free
Semi-Pro
Semi-Pro (1.8K reputation)Semi-Pro (1.8K reputation)Semi-Pro (1.8K reputation)Semi-Pro (1.8K reputation)Semi-Pro (1.8K reputation)Semi-Pro (1.8K reputation)Semi-Pro (1.8K reputation)Semi-Pro (1.8K reputation)Semi-Pro (1.8K reputation)Semi-Pro (1.8K reputation)Semi-Pro (1.8K reputation)

Group: Forum Members
Posts: 1.7K, Visits: 0
localstar - 19 Jul 2018 4:40 PM
Classic name dropping exercise from decentric.. without the names!

Still trying to justify the costs for that certificate of participation.



GO


Select a Forum....























Inside Sport


Search