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Decentric
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Group: Awaiting Activation
Posts: 22K,
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xI vacillated about starting a separate thread on this topic, but I don't think any of Smith, Warner or Bancroft should ever be captain or vice captain again under any circumstances. They brought the game into disrepute. I come from a small place. I know on good authority from a senior Shield colleague of Paine's that he was in utter disbelief when he found out that what those three had done with the ball tampering incident in SA. h ecoul don twelve that had dome it. He had no idea beforehand and was totally shocked. I'm even uneasy about them being selected again. ATM Paine and Langer are constantly in conversation all the time discussing tactics. They lead the team. I'd not want to see any pernicious and destabilising influences return. If they are selected again, they need the riot read to them to shut up and keep their heads down. Smith's body language was atrocious as captain, always looking frustrated with his teammates. He was too young and too immature for the captaincy. Apart from Paine, Lyon, Hazlewood and Starc, nobody else is really established in the team, apart from arguably Usman. Cummins has faded from even a year ago and isn't the bowler he was. As long as Paine's form holds out he should be captain for mine. I am biased as he was a student in a school I taught at. I bowled to him in the playground. I think he looks like the best in the role since Mark Taylor. Ponting and Clarke exploded publicly at times - a bad look for a captain. Waugh didn't have the respect of some teammates. Some considered him selfish and not supporting them in times of difficulty. Taylor was a revered figure. Langer cleaned out West Aussie cricket. He suspended Tom Triffet, the Tassie recruited wicketkeeper, who was caught breaking and entering on a WA tour with a teammate. Langer also suspended both Marshes for inappropriate behaviour. He came down on them like a ton of bricks! ATM our batting is abysmal, but if Renshaw can regain the the form he had, it will start to look brighter. We need a string team ethos ATM - not one prone to cheating. I don't think Warner is in any danger of ever getting a captaincy position again... Smudger is a lot younger than Paine... so I would not rule him out entirely in the future... Paine is 34 - 3 seasons max after this one left - more likely 2. And Smudger is ineligible for a year after return anyway... Warner and Smith are going to be crowd sledged endlessly for a while (in England all tour for sure), so they may not find it easy going for a while. I am not entirely convinced that Warner will even win over the Aus public again, who for years went into bat for him, just because of the CA team... who feel let down. They would rather he had punched de Kock than sandpaper the ball through Bancroft as reported... He has learnt somethi Smithy - he was weak to Warner. He will regret it immensely. But - if he makes runs, the Aussie public will forgive him... As re his captaincy in future, he has learnt something from this that none of all those runs could ever teach him.... Gday Paddles, I totally agree with you, Warner may even have trouble getting back into the side, Bancroft should slot in again as I do not feel there is much anger towards him from the public. Smith will return, probably better for what happened & I still think if no one else stands up he will be captain again when he is eligible I can not see Bancroft coming back any time soon. He was under scrutiny before his misdemeanour for a dodgy technique. Tim deserves to have the captaincy for as long as he wants. Smith can wait. If Marsh does not cement his spot then give Smith the deputy badge. Despite my not liking any wk / captain as I have posted, Smith as VC to Paine would work. As I have posted the only way for Paine to stay captain is have an extremely good VC beside him to help out. Smith could do that & at the same time be the captain in waiting for when Paine retires. Interesting thought Respectfully, disagree, JJ. Paine is captain in his own right. He spends a lot of time conferring with Langer. Problem is Langer is not on the field & who decides on last minute changes that Paine misses because he's concentrating on behind the stumps. To keep Paine as captain a really good VC is required to actively help him out - we don't have one - Too much for a WC/captain. Obviously if Smith was in the mix, would not be for a while - who is there with Marsh no guarantee to keep his spot. This is a huge weakness in the Australian side and needs rectifying. I think Finch has a very good cricket brain from what I hear from the LOC internationals when he has captained Aus (I don't watch any of it though). Usman is also a state captain - as is Head. He has these resources to draw on out on the field. Paine has played with George Bailey in the Shield for years - and they are very close mates. Paine has also played a lot of Shield cricket and a fair few LOC internationals. In addition, he had a very good overseas tour a few years back when he replaced Haddin as Test keeper - Pakistan? There was a school of though he should replace Haddin as Test keeper then, because he was a better gloveman and had done little wrong with the bat. Moreover, Paine was already identified as a future Australian captain even then. It just happens he was a state player with arguably the best captain in the country in George Bailey. Bailey also said he would step aside for Paine to captain Tas , if he was being groomed for the Test captaincy. Then the Aussie Test selectors selected Haddin again and Paine got injured. Gday Dc, thanks for that, as a lot of info on Paine I wasn't aware of. Part of being in the wild west and we are very parochial. I quess it comes down to a VC that can help him. My problem with Finch, is that I do not see him being in the team long term in any position as his technique has too many problems and he is also 32. Mitch Marsh & Handscomb positions are tenuous, so pending on the team selected for MCG & result of same, CA could be finally forced to face reality & make some changes, which may be the time they sort out the VC. Khawaja I put forward on a previous post, as I did not know much of his background. I now see him as a long term number 3, able to open if a quick wicket lost, can stay if required to anchor an innings and score freely when required & one of the few experienced batsmen I see keeping his place. So is he a future VC or is he too old? If Burns comes in - RH batsman, he is 29 but again I do not know much of his background. Our list does not seem to have an up & coming player to be VC and groomed for a future captain. Thanks for posting, JJ. I've been trying to provide some impetus to this Cricket forum for a long time, trying to induce football fans who follow cricket on IS to participate more regularly. Since we've picked up Baggers, MikeR, Paddles, Test Fan and you, we have a lot of content to augment the circa 10 who post frequently or sporadically who've probably come through the football section on IS. ATM we have a scenario where some of our best players are unsuitable for leadership roles, and other players well suited to captaincy aren't established national team players or good enough. I think Smith was lucky to have the very mature, experienced WA captain, Voges, and the very experienced, Chris Rogers, to seek advice from for a period of his captaincy. Once they departed, I'm not sure who he had to provide words of wisdom.
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jaszyjim
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 224,
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xI vacillated about starting a separate thread on this topic, but I don't think any of Smith, Warner or Bancroft should ever be captain or vice captain again under any circumstances. They brought the game into disrepute. I come from a small place. I know on good authority from a senior Shield colleague of Paine's that he was in utter disbelief when he found out that what those three had done with the ball tampering incident in SA. h ecoul don twelve that had dome it. He had no idea beforehand and was totally shocked. I'm even uneasy about them being selected again. ATM Paine and Langer are constantly in conversation all the time discussing tactics. They lead the team. I'd not want to see any pernicious and destabilising influences return. If they are selected again, they need the riot read to them to shut up and keep their heads down. Smith's body language was atrocious as captain, always looking frustrated with his teammates. He was too young and too immature for the captaincy. Apart from Paine, Lyon, Hazlewood and Starc, nobody else is really established in the team, apart from arguably Usman. Cummins has faded from even a year ago and isn't the bowler he was. As long as Paine's form holds out he should be captain for mine. I am biased as he was a student in a school I taught at. I bowled to him in the playground. I think he looks like the best in the role since Mark Taylor. Ponting and Clarke exploded publicly at times - a bad look for a captain. Waugh didn't have the respect of some teammates. Some considered him selfish and not supporting them in times of difficulty. Taylor was a revered figure. Langer cleaned out West Aussie cricket. He suspended Tom Triffet, the Tassie recruited wicketkeeper, who was caught breaking and entering on a WA tour with a teammate. Langer also suspended both Marshes for inappropriate behaviour. He came down on them like a ton of bricks! ATM our batting is abysmal, but if Renshaw can regain the the form he had, it will start to look brighter. We need a string team ethos ATM - not one prone to cheating. I don't think Warner is in any danger of ever getting a captaincy position again... Smudger is a lot younger than Paine... so I would not rule him out entirely in the future... Paine is 34 - 3 seasons max after this one left - more likely 2. And Smudger is ineligible for a year after return anyway... Warner and Smith are going to be crowd sledged endlessly for a while (in England all tour for sure), so they may not find it easy going for a while. I am not entirely convinced that Warner will even win over the Aus public again, who for years went into bat for him, just because of the CA team... who feel let down. They would rather he had punched de Kock than sandpaper the ball through Bancroft as reported... He has learnt somethi Smithy - he was weak to Warner. He will regret it immensely. But - if he makes runs, the Aussie public will forgive him... As re his captaincy in future, he has learnt something from this that none of all those runs could ever teach him.... Gday Paddles, I totally agree with you, Warner may even have trouble getting back into the side, Bancroft should slot in again as I do not feel there is much anger towards him from the public. Smith will return, probably better for what happened & I still think if no one else stands up he will be captain again when he is eligible I can not see Bancroft coming back any time soon. He was under scrutiny before his misdemeanour for a dodgy technique. Tim deserves to have the captaincy for as long as he wants. Smith can wait. If Marsh does not cement his spot then give Smith the deputy badge. Despite my not liking any wk / captain as I have posted, Smith as VC to Paine would work. As I have posted the only way for Paine to stay captain is have an extremely good VC beside him to help out. Smith could do that & at the same time be the captain in waiting for when Paine retires. Interesting thought Respectfully, disagree, JJ. Paine is captain in his own right. He spends a lot of time conferring with Langer. Problem is Langer is not on the field & who decides on last minute changes that Paine misses because he's concentrating on behind the stumps. To keep Paine as captain a really good VC is required to actively help him out - we don't have one - Too much for a WC/captain. Obviously if Smith was in the mix, would not be for a while - who is there with Marsh no guarantee to keep his spot. This is a huge weakness in the Australian side and needs rectifying. I think Finch has a very good cricket brain from what I hear from the LOC internationals when he has captained Aus (I don't watch any of it though). Usman is also a state captain - as is Head. He has these resources to draw on out on the field. Paine has played with George Bailey in the Shield for years - and they are very close mates. Paine has also played a lot of Shield cricket and a fair few LOC internationals. In addition, he had a very good overseas tour a few years back when he replaced Haddin as Test keeper - Pakistan? There was a school of though he should replace Haddin as Test keeper then, because he was a better gloveman and had done little wrong with the bat. Moreover, Paine was already identified as a future Australian captain even then. It just happens he was a state player with arguably the best captain in the country in George Bailey. Bailey also said he would step aside for Paine to captain Tas , if he was being groomed for the Test captaincy. Then the Aussie Test selectors selected Haddin again and Paine got injured. Gday Dc, thanks for that, as a lot of info on Paine I wasn't aware of. Part of being in the wild west and we are very parochial. I quess it comes down to a VC that can help him. My problem with Finch, is that I do not see him being in the team long term in any position as his technique has too many problems and he is also 32. Mitch Marsh & Handscomb positions are tenuous, so pending on the team selected for MCG & result of same, CA could be finally forced to face reality & make some changes, which may be the time they sort out the VC. Khawaja I put forward on a previous post, as I did not know much of his background. I now see him as a long term number 3, able to open if a quick wicket lost, can stay if required to anchor an innings and score freely when required & one of the few experienced batsmen I see keeping his place. So is he a future VC or is he too old? If Burns comes in - RH batsman, he is 29 but again I do not know much of his background. Our list does not seem to have an up & coming player to be VC and groomed for a future captain. Thanks for posting, JJ. I've been trying to provide some impetus to this Cricket forum for a long time, trying to induce football fans who follow cricket on IS to participate more regularly. Since we've picked up Baggers, MikeR, Paddles, Test Fan and you, we have a lot of content to augment the circa 10 who post frequently or sporadically who've probably come through the football section on IS. ATM we have a scenario where some of our best players are unsuitable for leadership roles, and other players well suited to captaincy aren't established national team players or good enough. I think Smith was lucky to have the very mature, experienced WA captain, Voges, and the very experienced, Chris Rogers, to seek advice from for a period of his captaincy. Once they departed, I'm not sure who he had to provide words of wisdom. Gday DC, I was searching for a site to vent my frustration at the state of Australian cricket & especially the lack of mainstream media addressing the problem and found this forum. I am enjoying participating, I am expanding my overall knowledge of the background of some of the players and as you will have noted I don't pull my punches.
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BaggyGreens
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 4.1K,
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xI vacillated about starting a separate thread on this topic, but I don't think any of Smith, Warner or Bancroft should ever be captain or vice captain again under any circumstances. They brought the game into disrepute. I come from a small place. I know on good authority from a senior Shield colleague of Paine's that he was in utter disbelief when he found out that what those three had done with the ball tampering incident in SA. h ecoul don twelve that had dome it. He had no idea beforehand and was totally shocked. I'm even uneasy about them being selected again. ATM Paine and Langer are constantly in conversation all the time discussing tactics. They lead the team. I'd not want to see any pernicious and destabilising influences return. If they are selected again, they need the riot read to them to shut up and keep their heads down. Smith's body language was atrocious as captain, always looking frustrated with his teammates. He was too young and too immature for the captaincy. Apart from Paine, Lyon, Hazlewood and Starc, nobody else is really established in the team, apart from arguably Usman. Cummins has faded from even a year ago and isn't the bowler he was. As long as Paine's form holds out he should be captain for mine. I am biased as he was a student in a school I taught at. I bowled to him in the playground. I think he looks like the best in the role since Mark Taylor. Ponting and Clarke exploded publicly at times - a bad look for a captain. Waugh didn't have the respect of some teammates. Some considered him selfish and not supporting them in times of difficulty. Taylor was a revered figure. Langer cleaned out West Aussie cricket. He suspended Tom Triffet, the Tassie recruited wicketkeeper, who was caught breaking and entering on a WA tour with a teammate. Langer also suspended both Marshes for inappropriate behaviour. He came down on them like a ton of bricks! ATM our batting is abysmal, but if Renshaw can regain the the form he had, it will start to look brighter. We need a string team ethos ATM - not one prone to cheating. I don't think Warner is in any danger of ever getting a captaincy position again... Smudger is a lot younger than Paine... so I would not rule him out entirely in the future... Paine is 34 - 3 seasons max after this one left - more likely 2. And Smudger is ineligible for a year after return anyway... Warner and Smith are going to be crowd sledged endlessly for a while (in England all tour for sure), so they may not find it easy going for a while. I am not entirely convinced that Warner will even win over the Aus public again, who for years went into bat for him, just because of the CA team... who feel let down. They would rather he had punched de Kock than sandpaper the ball through Bancroft as reported... He has learnt somethi Smithy - he was weak to Warner. He will regret it immensely. But - if he makes runs, the Aussie public will forgive him... As re his captaincy in future, he has learnt something from this that none of all those runs could ever teach him.... Gday Paddles, I totally agree with you, Warner may even have trouble getting back into the side, Bancroft should slot in again as I do not feel there is much anger towards him from the public. Smith will return, probably better for what happened & I still think if no one else stands up he will be captain again when he is eligible I can not see Bancroft coming back any time soon. He was under scrutiny before his misdemeanour for a dodgy technique. Tim deserves to have the captaincy for as long as he wants. Smith can wait. If Marsh does not cement his spot then give Smith the deputy badge. Despite my not liking any wk / captain as I have posted, Smith as VC to Paine would work. As I have posted the only way for Paine to stay captain is have an extremely good VC beside him to help out. Smith could do that & at the same time be the captain in waiting for when Paine retires. Interesting thought Respectfully, disagree, JJ. Paine is captain in his own right. He spends a lot of time conferring with Langer. Problem is Langer is not on the field & who decides on last minute changes that Paine misses because he's concentrating on behind the stumps. To keep Paine as captain a really good VC is required to actively help him out - we don't have one - Too much for a WC/captain. Obviously if Smith was in the mix, would not be for a while - who is there with Marsh no guarantee to keep his spot. This is a huge weakness in the Australian side and needs rectifying. I think Finch has a very good cricket brain from what I hear from the LOC internationals when he has captained Aus (I don't watch any of it though). Usman is also a state captain - as is Head. He has these resources to draw on out on the field. Paine has played with George Bailey in the Shield for years - and they are very close mates. Paine has also played a lot of Shield cricket and a fair few LOC internationals. In addition, he had a very good overseas tour a few years back when he replaced Haddin as Test keeper - Pakistan? There was a school of though he should replace Haddin as Test keeper then, because he was a better gloveman and had done little wrong with the bat. Moreover, Paine was already identified as a future Australian captain even then. It just happens he was a state player with arguably the best captain in the country in George Bailey. Bailey also said he would step aside for Paine to captain Tas , if he was being groomed for the Test captaincy. Then the Aussie Test selectors selected Haddin again and Paine got injured. Gday Dc, thanks for that, as a lot of info on Paine I wasn't aware of. Part of being in the wild west and we are very parochial. I quess it comes down to a VC that can help him. My problem with Finch, is that I do not see him being in the team long term in any position as his technique has too many problems and he is also 32. Mitch Marsh & Handscomb positions are tenuous, so pending on the team selected for MCG & result of same, CA could be finally forced to face reality & make some changes, which may be the time they sort out the VC. Khawaja I put forward on a previous post, as I did not know much of his background. I now see him as a long term number 3, able to open if a quick wicket lost, can stay if required to anchor an innings and score freely when required & one of the few experienced batsmen I see keeping his place. So is he a future VC or is he too old? If Burns comes in - RH batsman, he is 29 but again I do not know much of his background. Our list does not seem to have an up & coming player to be VC and groomed for a future captain. Thanks for posting, JJ. I've been trying to provide some impetus to this Cricket forum for a long time, trying to induce football fans who follow cricket on IS to participate more regularly. Since we've picked up Baggers, MikeR, Paddles, Test Fan and you, we have a lot of content to augment the circa 10 who post frequently or sporadically who've probably come through the football section on IS. ATM we have a scenario where some of our best players are unsuitable for leadership roles, and other players well suited to captaincy aren't established national team players or good enough. I think Smith was lucky to have the very mature, experienced WA captain, Voges, and the very experienced, Chris Rogers, to seek advice from for a period of his captaincy. Once they departed, I'm not sure who he had to provide words of wisdom. Gday DC, I was searching for a site to vent my frustration at the state of Australian cricket & especially the lack of mainstream media addressing the problem and found this forum. I am enjoying participating, I am expanding my overall knowledge of the background of some of the players and as you will have noted I don't pull my punches. The beauty of forums, specially sports forums, is you can do be as opinionated at you wish. As you say they are just the place to vent your frustrations, praise players that deserve it and criticise those that frustrate. I have been doing just this for five years now. Some of my posts are taken as a grain of salt.. some rubbished while others receive some praise. And when I feel passionately about a subject.. such as the direction our Baggy Greens are taking I too do not pull my punches. Above all my main aim is for my posts to provide the forum with a good basis for debate on a whole range of subjects.
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BaggyGreens
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 4.1K,
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xI vacillated about starting a separate thread on this topic, but I don't think any of Smith, Warner or Bancroft should ever be captain or vice captain again under any circumstances. They brought the game into disrepute. I come from a small place. I know on good authority from a senior Shield colleague of Paine's that he was in utter disbelief when he found out that what those three had done with the ball tampering incident in SA. h ecoul don twelve that had dome it. He had no idea beforehand and was totally shocked. I'm even uneasy about them being selected again. ATM Paine and Langer are constantly in conversation all the time discussing tactics. They lead the team. I'd not want to see any pernicious and destabilising influences return. If they are selected again, they need the riot read to them to shut up and keep their heads down. Smith's body language was atrocious as captain, always looking frustrated with his teammates. He was too young and too immature for the captaincy. Apart from Paine, Lyon, Hazlewood and Starc, nobody else is really established in the team, apart from arguably Usman. Cummins has faded from even a year ago and isn't the bowler he was. As long as Paine's form holds out he should be captain for mine. I am biased as he was a student in a school I taught at. I bowled to him in the playground. I think he looks like the best in the role since Mark Taylor. Ponting and Clarke exploded publicly at times - a bad look for a captain. Waugh didn't have the respect of some teammates. Some considered him selfish and not supporting them in times of difficulty. Taylor was a revered figure. Langer cleaned out West Aussie cricket. He suspended Tom Triffet, the Tassie recruited wicketkeeper, who was caught breaking and entering on a WA tour with a teammate. Langer also suspended both Marshes for inappropriate behaviour. He came down on them like a ton of bricks! ATM our batting is abysmal, but if Renshaw can regain the the form he had, it will start to look brighter. We need a string team ethos ATM - not one prone to cheating. I don't think Warner is in any danger of ever getting a captaincy position again... Smudger is a lot younger than Paine... so I would not rule him out entirely in the future... Paine is 34 - 3 seasons max after this one left - more likely 2. And Smudger is ineligible for a year after return anyway... Warner and Smith are going to be crowd sledged endlessly for a while (in England all tour for sure), so they may not find it easy going for a while. I am not entirely convinced that Warner will even win over the Aus public again, who for years went into bat for him, just because of the CA team... who feel let down. They would rather he had punched de Kock than sandpaper the ball through Bancroft as reported... He has learnt somethi Smithy - he was weak to Warner. He will regret it immensely. But - if he makes runs, the Aussie public will forgive him... As re his captaincy in future, he has learnt something from this that none of all those runs could ever teach him.... Gday Paddles, I totally agree with you, Warner may even have trouble getting back into the side, Bancroft should slot in again as I do not feel there is much anger towards him from the public. Smith will return, probably better for what happened & I still think if no one else stands up he will be captain again when he is eligible I can not see Bancroft coming back any time soon. He was under scrutiny before his misdemeanour for a dodgy technique. Tim deserves to have the captaincy for as long as he wants. Smith can wait. If Marsh does not cement his spot then give Smith the deputy badge. Despite my not liking any wk / captain as I have posted, Smith as VC to Paine would work. As I have posted the only way for Paine to stay captain is have an extremely good VC beside him to help out. Smith could do that & at the same time be the captain in waiting for when Paine retires. Interesting thought Respectfully, disagree, JJ. Paine is captain in his own right. He spends a lot of time conferring with Langer. Problem is Langer is not on the field & who decides on last minute changes that Paine misses because he's concentrating on behind the stumps. To keep Paine as captain a really good VC is required to actively help him out - we don't have one - Too much for a WC/captain. Obviously if Smith was in the mix, would not be for a while - who is there with Marsh no guarantee to keep his spot. This is a huge weakness in the Australian side and needs rectifying. I think Finch has a very good cricket brain from what I hear from the LOC internationals when he has captained Aus (I don't watch any of it though). Usman is also a state captain - as is Head. He has these resources to draw on out on the field. Paine has played with George Bailey in the Shield for years - and they are very close mates. Paine has also played a lot of Shield cricket and a fair few LOC internationals. In addition, he had a very good overseas tour a few years back when he replaced Haddin as Test keeper - Pakistan? There was a school of though he should replace Haddin as Test keeper then, because he was a better gloveman and had done little wrong with the bat. Moreover, Paine was already identified as a future Australian captain even then. It just happens he was a state player with arguably the best captain in the country in George Bailey. Bailey also said he would step aside for Paine to captain Tas , if he was being groomed for the Test captaincy. Then the Aussie Test selectors selected Haddin again and Paine got injured. Gday Dc, thanks for that, as a lot of info on Paine I wasn't aware of. Part of being in the wild west and we are very parochial. I quess it comes down to a VC that can help him. My problem with Finch, is that I do not see him being in the team long term in any position as his technique has too many problems and he is also 32. Mitch Marsh & Handscomb positions are tenuous, so pending on the team selected for MCG & result of same, CA could be finally forced to face reality & make some changes, which may be the time they sort out the VC. Khawaja I put forward on a previous post, as I did not know much of his background. I now see him as a long term number 3, able to open if a quick wicket lost, can stay if required to anchor an innings and score freely when required & one of the few experienced batsmen I see keeping his place. So is he a future VC or is he too old? If Burns comes in - RH batsman, he is 29 but again I do not know much of his background. Our list does not seem to have an up & coming player to be VC and groomed for a future captain. Thanks for posting, JJ. I've been trying to provide some impetus to this Cricket forum for a long time, trying to induce football fans who follow cricket on IS to participate more regularly. Since we've picked up Baggers, MikeR, Paddles, Test Fan and you, we have a lot of content to augment the circa 10 who post frequently or sporadically who've probably come through the football section on IS. ATM we have a scenario where some of our best players are unsuitable for leadership roles, and other players well suited to captaincy aren't established national team players or good enough. I think Smith was lucky to have the very mature, experienced WA captain, Voges, and the very experienced, Chris Rogers, to seek advice from for a period of his captaincy. Once they departed, I'm not sure who he had to provide words of wisdom. Gday DC, I was searching for a site to vent my frustration at the state of Australian cricket & especially the lack of mainstream media addressing the problem and found this forum. I am enjoying participating, I am expanding my overall knowledge of the background of some of the players and as you will have noted I don't pull my punches. The beauty of forums, specially sports forums, is you can do be as opinionated at you wish. As you say they are just the place to vent your frustrations, praise players that deserve it and criticise those that frustrate. I have been doing just this for five years now. Some of my posts are taken as a grain of salt.. some rubbished while others receive some praise. Above all my main aim is for my posts to provide the forum with a good basis for debate on a whole range of subjects. It is early days but does our win in Perth mean Australian cricket is about to turn the corner after a "annus horribilis" or horrible year? We do need tho to tread cautiously before making bold predictions we can not back as this current batting squad is far from the finished product. This is the first time in decades that Australia is in danger of losing at home to a sub continental team. Many pundits in fact had India favorites at the start of the series with us minus run machines Steve Smith and Dave Warner. We could still lose the series..with plenty of work to be done in Melbourne and Sydney. To be brutally honest Australian cricket is in a parlous state when it comes to batting talent. By talent I mean Test match quality. Players who are prepared to value their wicket and bat time. Players with the required technique to combat the best bowling and build the big 400 plus scores of the past. I am seeing more increasingly.. and not only among our own batsmen.. many players losing their wickets to shots manufactured in the white ball game. This is a worrying trend and shows the influence the short formats have had on our purest form of the sport. I am seeing young batsmen just out of juniors with questionable techniques born of white ball cricket. Where are our junior coaches. Why are they not detecting these flaws and rectifying them before their charge reaches senior level? What is CA doing about this. It is even aware of this blot on our sport? I have maintained for years now that our U17/19 junior national championships need as a matter of urgency a red ball component. Say a 4 day match to kick off the tournament. I even emailed CA suggesting this. Did not even receive a reply. We all know why as white ball cricket.. specially BBL T20 is the sports "cash cow" and CA worships money. comments
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jaszyjim
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Group: Forum Members
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Gday all,
I decided to do some research into the ages that Australian test players retired from test cricket.
This was brought about due to Paine's age & how much do you put into an inexperienced captain that has a limited number of years left,
ie, by the time he has learnt enough to become an effective captain, he will be ready to retire.
The groups I looked were captain-batsmen from AB to present; Wicket keepers from Swampy to present & pace bowlers from Lille / Thomo to present.
Average retirement age from test cricket are;
Captain-batsmen, ranged from 34 to 38, average = 36
Wicket keepers, ranged from 35 to 37, average = 36
Pace bowlers, ranged from 31 to 36, average = 34
I was surprised as I did not think keepers would last as long as batsmen & pace bowlers only 2 years less.
So Paine at 34 realistically has 2 to 3 years left, is this enough to warrant him the captaincy or is it as I posted before,
there is no one else of captaincy potential, who is seen to be in the team even that long.
If this is the case CA & the selectors have a lot to answer for & why is Holmes still chairman of selectors?
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Test_Fan
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xI vacillated about starting a separate thread on this topic, but I don't think any of Smith, Warner or Bancroft should ever be captain or vice captain again under any circumstances. They brought the game into disrepute. I come from a small place. I know on good authority from a senior Shield colleague of Paine's that he was in utter disbelief when he found out that what those three had done with the ball tampering incident in SA. h ecoul don twelve that had dome it. He had no idea beforehand and was totally shocked. I'm even uneasy about them being selected again. ATM Paine and Langer are constantly in conversation all the time discussing tactics. They lead the team. I'd not want to see any pernicious and destabilising influences return. If they are selected again, they need the riot read to them to shut up and keep their heads down. Smith's body language was atrocious as captain, always looking frustrated with his teammates. He was too young and too immature for the captaincy. Apart from Paine, Lyon, Hazlewood and Starc, nobody else is really established in the team, apart from arguably Usman. Cummins has faded from even a year ago and isn't the bowler he was. As long as Paine's form holds out he should be captain for mine. I am biased as he was a student in a school I taught at. I bowled to him in the playground. I think he looks like the best in the role since Mark Taylor. Ponting and Clarke exploded publicly at times - a bad look for a captain. Waugh didn't have the respect of some teammates. Some considered him selfish and not supporting them in times of difficulty. Taylor was a revered figure. Langer cleaned out West Aussie cricket. He suspended Tom Triffet, the Tassie recruited wicketkeeper, who was caught breaking and entering on a WA tour with a teammate. Langer also suspended both Marshes for inappropriate behaviour. He came down on them like a ton of bricks! ATM our batting is abysmal, but if Renshaw can regain the the form he had, it will start to look brighter. We need a string team ethos ATM - not one prone to cheating. I don't think Warner is in any danger of ever getting a captaincy position again... Smudger is a lot younger than Paine... so I would not rule him out entirely in the future... Paine is 34 - 3 seasons max after this one left - more likely 2. And Smudger is ineligible for a year after return anyway... Warner and Smith are going to be crowd sledged endlessly for a while (in England all tour for sure), so they may not find it easy going for a while. I am not entirely convinced that Warner will even win over the Aus public again, who for years went into bat for him, just because of the CA team... who feel let down. They would rather he had punched de Kock than sandpaper the ball through Bancroft as reported... He has learnt somethi Smithy - he was weak to Warner. He will regret it immensely. But - if he makes runs, the Aussie public will forgive him... As re his captaincy in future, he has learnt something from this that none of all those runs could ever teach him.... Gday Paddles, I totally agree with you, Warner may even have trouble getting back into the side, Bancroft should slot in again as I do not feel there is much anger towards him from the public. Smith will return, probably better for what happened & I still think if no one else stands up he will be captain again when he is eligible I can not see Bancroft coming back any time soon. He was under scrutiny before his misdemeanour for a dodgy technique. Tim deserves to have the captaincy for as long as he wants. Smith can wait. If Marsh does not cement his spot then give Smith the deputy badge. Despite my not liking any wk / captain as I have posted, Smith as VC to Paine would work. As I have posted the only way for Paine to stay captain is have an extremely good VC beside him to help out. Smith could do that & at the same time be the captain in waiting for when Paine retires. Interesting thought Respectfully, disagree, JJ. Paine is captain in his own right. He spends a lot of time conferring with Langer. Problem is Langer is not on the field & who decides on last minute changes that Paine misses because he's concentrating on behind the stumps. To keep Paine as captain a really good VC is required to actively help him out - we don't have one - Too much for a WC/captain. Obviously if Smith was in the mix, would not be for a while - who is there with Marsh no guarantee to keep his spot. This is a huge weakness in the Australian side and needs rectifying. I think Finch has a very good cricket brain from what I hear from the LOC internationals when he has captained Aus (I don't watch any of it though). Usman is also a state captain - as is Head. He has these resources to draw on out on the field. Paine has played with George Bailey in the Shield for years - and they are very close mates. Paine has also played a lot of Shield cricket and a fair few LOC internationals. In addition, he had a very good overseas tour a few years back when he replaced Haddin as Test keeper - Pakistan? There was a school of though he should replace Haddin as Test keeper then, because he was a better gloveman and had done little wrong with the bat. Moreover, Paine was already identified as a future Australian captain even then. It just happens he was a state player with arguably the best captain in the country in George Bailey. Bailey also said he would step aside for Paine to captain Tas , if he was being groomed for the Test captaincy. Then the Aussie Test selectors selected Haddin again and Paine got injured. Gday Dc, thanks for that, as a lot of info on Paine I wasn't aware of. Part of being in the wild west and we are very parochial. I quess it comes down to a VC that can help him. My problem with Finch, is that I do not see him being in the team long term in any position as his technique has too many problems and he is also 32. Mitch Marsh & Handscomb positions are tenuous, so pending on the team selected for MCG & result of same, CA could be finally forced to face reality & make some changes, which may be the time they sort out the VC. Khawaja I put forward on a previous post, as I did not know much of his background. I now see him as a long term number 3, able to open if a quick wicket lost, can stay if required to anchor an innings and score freely when required & one of the few experienced batsmen I see keeping his place. So is he a future VC or is he too old? If Burns comes in - RH batsman, he is 29 but again I do not know much of his background. Our list does not seem to have an up & coming player to be VC and groomed for a future captain. Thanks for posting, JJ. I've been trying to provide some impetus to this Cricket forum for a long time, trying to induce football fans who follow cricket on IS to participate more regularly. Since we've picked up Baggers, MikeR, Paddles, Test Fan and you, we have a lot of content to augment the circa 10 who post frequently or sporadically who've probably come through the football section on IS. ATM we have a scenario where some of our best players are unsuitable for leadership roles, and other players well suited to captaincy aren't established national team players or good enough. I think Smith was lucky to have the very mature, experienced WA captain, Voges, and the very experienced, Chris Rogers, to seek advice from for a period of his captaincy. Once they departed, I'm not sure who he had to provide words of wisdom. Gday DC, I was searching for a site to vent my frustration at the state of Australian cricket & especially the lack of mainstream media addressing the problem and found this forum. I am enjoying participating, I am expanding my overall knowledge of the background of some of the players and as you will have noted I don't pull my punches. The beauty of forums, specially sports forums, is you can do be as opinionated at you wish. As you say they are just the place to vent your frustrations, praise players that deserve it and criticise those that frustrate. I have been doing just this for five years now. Some of my posts are taken as a grain of salt.. some rubbished while others receive some praise. Above all my main aim is for my posts to provide the forum with a good basis for debate on a whole range of subjects. It is early days but does our win in Perth mean Australian cricket is about to turn the corner after a "annus horribilis" or horrible year? We do need tho to tread cautiously before making bold predictions we can not back as this current batting squad is far from the finished product. This is the first time in decades that Australia is in danger of losing at home to a sub continental team. Many pundits in fact had India favorites at the start of the series with us minus run machines Steve Smith and Dave Warner. We could still lose the series..with plenty of work to be done in Melbourne and Sydney. To be brutally honest Australian cricket is in a parlous state when it comes to batting talent. By talent I mean Test match quality. Players who are prepared to value their wicket and bat time. Players with the required technique to combat the best bowling and build the big 400 plus scores of the past. I am seeing more increasingly.. and not only among our own batsmen.. many players losing their wickets to shots manufactured in the white ball game. This is a worrying trend and shows the influence the short formats have had on our purest form of the sport. I am seeing young batsmen just out of juniors with questionable techniques born of white ball cricket. Where are our junior coaches. Why are they not detecting these flaws and rectifying them before their charge reaches senior level? What is CA doing about this. It is even aware of this blot on our sport? I have maintained for years now that our U17/19 junior national championships need as a matter of urgency a red ball component. Say a 4 day match to kick off the tournament. I even emailed CA suggesting this. Did not even receive a reply. We all know why as white ball cricket.. specially BBL T20 is the sports "cash cow" and CA worships money. comments Beating India in Perth is not an achievement of note, despite India's fast bowling be so much improved of late, it should be a fairly routine win. It only occurred because we had Nathan Lyon and the Indians made a huge selection blunder in picking Umesh Yadav. Also our bowlers can bat, India's cannot. Their batting is clearly better than ours apart from the openers with Shaw missing and I think their fast bowlers are better than ours. Ashwin is also a better bowler than Lyon and India clearly missed him in Perth, not least of all because he can bat. I know Kohli said he might have dropped Ashwin anyway but that is easier to say than to do. A combined team with the best of both teams in the series would be, Harris, Shaw, Pujara, Kohli, Rahane, Khawaja, Paine, Ashwin, Lyon, Shami, Bumrah. Included Shaw even though he has not played because Rahul, Vijay and Finch are not deserving a spot in the team and Shaw is clearly hugely better. Khawaja ahead of Head is perhaps strange but I just think Khawaja is the better batsman by a long way. Shami, Starc and Sharma are all close for the second fast bowling spot but I think Shami is the best bowler of the 3.
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Test_Fan
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Group: Forum Members
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+xGday all, I decided to do some research into the ages that Australian test players retired from test cricket. This was brought about due to Paine's age & how much do you put into an inexperienced captain that has a limited number of years left, ie, by the time he has learnt enough to become an effective captain, he will be ready to retire. The groups I looked were captain-batsmen from AB to present; Wicket keepers from Swampy to present & pace bowlers from Lille / Thomo to present. Average retirement age from test cricket are; Captain-batsmen, ranged from 34 to 38, average = 36 Wicket keepers, ranged from 35 to 37, average = 36 Pace bowlers, ranged from 31 to 36, average = 34 I was surprised as I did not think keepers would last as long as batsmen & pace bowlers only 2 years less. So Paine at 34 realistically has 2 to 3 years left, is this enough to warrant him the captaincy or is it as I posted before, there is no one else of captaincy potential, who is seen to be in the team even that long. If this is the case CA & the selectors have a lot to answer for & why is Holmes still chairman of selectors? Why do you think Paine is currently not an effective captain? To be fair to the selectors and CA they would have thought they had a long term captain in place in Steve Smith but he made a huge mistake and was removed from the side. Travis Head was made captain of South Australia at age 21 and if he can secure his place in the side he could be an option in 2-3 years.
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BaggyGreens
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xI vacillated about starting a separate thread on this topic, but I don't think any of Smith, Warner or Bancroft should ever be captain or vice captain again under any circumstances. They brought the game into disrepute. I come from a small place. I know on good authority from a senior Shield colleague of Paine's that he was in utter disbelief when he found out that what those three had done with the ball tampering incident in SA. h ecoul don twelve that had dome it. He had no idea beforehand and was totally shocked. I'm even uneasy about them being selected again. ATM Paine and Langer are constantly in conversation all the time discussing tactics. They lead the team. I'd not want to see any pernicious and destabilising influences return. If they are selected again, they need the riot read to them to shut up and keep their heads down. Smith's body language was atrocious as captain, always looking frustrated with his teammates. He was too young and too immature for the captaincy. Apart from Paine, Lyon, Hazlewood and Starc, nobody else is really established in the team, apart from arguably Usman. Cummins has faded from even a year ago and isn't the bowler he was. As long as Paine's form holds out he should be captain for mine. I am biased as he was a student in a school I taught at. I bowled to him in the playground. I think he looks like the best in the role since Mark Taylor. Ponting and Clarke exploded publicly at times - a bad look for a captain. Waugh didn't have the respect of some teammates. Some considered him selfish and not supporting them in times of difficulty. Taylor was a revered figure. Langer cleaned out West Aussie cricket. He suspended Tom Triffet, the Tassie recruited wicketkeeper, who was caught breaking and entering on a WA tour with a teammate. Langer also suspended both Marshes for inappropriate behaviour. He came down on them like a ton of bricks! ATM our batting is abysmal, but if Renshaw can regain the the form he had, it will start to look brighter. We need a string team ethos ATM - not one prone to cheating. I don't think Warner is in any danger of ever getting a captaincy position again... Smudger is a lot younger than Paine... so I would not rule him out entirely in the future... Paine is 34 - 3 seasons max after this one left - more likely 2. And Smudger is ineligible for a year after return anyway... Warner and Smith are going to be crowd sledged endlessly for a while (in England all tour for sure), so they may not find it easy going for a while. I am not entirely convinced that Warner will even win over the Aus public again, who for years went into bat for him, just because of the CA team... who feel let down. They would rather he had punched de Kock than sandpaper the ball through Bancroft as reported... He has learnt somethi Smithy - he was weak to Warner. He will regret it immensely. But - if he makes runs, the Aussie public will forgive him... As re his captaincy in future, he has learnt something from this that none of all those runs could ever teach him.... Gday Paddles, I totally agree with you, Warner may even have trouble getting back into the side, Bancroft should slot in again as I do not feel there is much anger towards him from the public. Smith will return, probably better for what happened & I still think if no one else stands up he will be captain again when he is eligible I can not see Bancroft coming back any time soon. He was under scrutiny before his misdemeanour for a dodgy technique. Tim deserves to have the captaincy for as long as he wants. Smith can wait. If Marsh does not cement his spot then give Smith the deputy badge. Despite my not liking any wk / captain as I have posted, Smith as VC to Paine would work. As I have posted the only way for Paine to stay captain is have an extremely good VC beside him to help out. Smith could do that & at the same time be the captain in waiting for when Paine retires. Interesting thought Respectfully, disagree, JJ. Paine is captain in his own right. He spends a lot of time conferring with Langer. Problem is Langer is not on the field & who decides on last minute changes that Paine misses because he's concentrating on behind the stumps. To keep Paine as captain a really good VC is required to actively help him out - we don't have one - Too much for a WC/captain. Obviously if Smith was in the mix, would not be for a while - who is there with Marsh no guarantee to keep his spot. This is a huge weakness in the Australian side and needs rectifying. I think Finch has a very good cricket brain from what I hear from the LOC internationals when he has captained Aus (I don't watch any of it though). Usman is also a state captain - as is Head. He has these resources to draw on out on the field. Paine has played with George Bailey in the Shield for years - and they are very close mates. Paine has also played a lot of Shield cricket and a fair few LOC internationals. In addition, he had a very good overseas tour a few years back when he replaced Haddin as Test keeper - Pakistan? There was a school of though he should replace Haddin as Test keeper then, because he was a better gloveman and had done little wrong with the bat. Moreover, Paine was already identified as a future Australian captain even then. It just happens he was a state player with arguably the best captain in the country in George Bailey. Bailey also said he would step aside for Paine to captain Tas , if he was being groomed for the Test captaincy. Then the Aussie Test selectors selected Haddin again and Paine got injured. Gday Dc, thanks for that, as a lot of info on Paine I wasn't aware of. Part of being in the wild west and we are very parochial. I quess it comes down to a VC that can help him. My problem with Finch, is that I do not see him being in the team long term in any position as his technique has too many problems and he is also 32. Mitch Marsh & Handscomb positions are tenuous, so pending on the team selected for MCG & result of same, CA could be finally forced to face reality & make some changes, which may be the time they sort out the VC. Khawaja I put forward on a previous post, as I did not know much of his background. I now see him as a long term number 3, able to open if a quick wicket lost, can stay if required to anchor an innings and score freely when required & one of the few experienced batsmen I see keeping his place. So is he a future VC or is he too old? If Burns comes in - RH batsman, he is 29 but again I do not know much of his background. Our list does not seem to have an up & coming player to be VC and groomed for a future captain. Thanks for posting, JJ. I've been trying to provide some impetus to this Cricket forum for a long time, trying to induce football fans who follow cricket on IS to participate more regularly. Since we've picked up Baggers, MikeR, Paddles, Test Fan and you, we have a lot of content to augment the circa 10 who post frequently or sporadically who've probably come through the football section on IS. ATM we have a scenario where some of our best players are unsuitable for leadership roles, and other players well suited to captaincy aren't established national team players or good enough. I think Smith was lucky to have the very mature, experienced WA captain, Voges, and the very experienced, Chris Rogers, to seek advice from for a period of his captaincy. Once they departed, I'm not sure who he had to provide words of wisdom. Gday DC, I was searching for a site to vent my frustration at the state of Australian cricket & especially the lack of mainstream media addressing the problem and found this forum. I am enjoying participating, I am expanding my overall knowledge of the background of some of the players and as you will have noted I don't pull my punches. The beauty of forums, specially sports forums, is you can do be as opinionated at you wish. As you say they are just the place to vent your frustrations, praise players that deserve it and criticise those that frustrate. I have been doing just this for five years now. Some of my posts are taken as a grain of salt.. some rubbished while others receive some praise. Above all my main aim is for my posts to provide the forum with a good basis for debate on a whole range of subjects. It is early days but does our win in Perth mean Australian cricket is about to turn the corner after a "annus horribilis" or horrible year? We do need tho to tread cautiously before making bold predictions we can not back as this current batting squad is far from the finished product. This is the first time in decades that Australia is in danger of losing at home to a sub continental team. Many pundits in fact had India favorites at the start of the series with us minus run machines Steve Smith and Dave Warner. We could still lose the series..with plenty of work to be done in Melbourne and Sydney. To be brutally honest Australian cricket is in a parlous state when it comes to batting talent. By talent I mean Test match quality. Players who are prepared to value their wicket and bat time. Players with the required technique to combat the best bowling and build the big 400 plus scores of the past. I am seeing more increasingly.. and not only among our own batsmen.. many players losing their wickets to shots manufactured in the white ball game. This is a worrying trend and shows the influence the short formats have had on our purest form of the sport. I am seeing young batsmen just out of juniors with questionable techniques born of white ball cricket. Where are our junior coaches. Why are they not detecting these flaws and rectifying them before their charge reaches senior level? What is CA doing about this. It is even aware of this blot on our sport? I have maintained for years now that our U17/19 junior national championships need as a matter of urgency a red ball component. Say a 4 day match to kick off the tournament. I even emailed CA suggesting this. Did not even receive a reply. We all know why as white ball cricket.. specially BBL T20 is the sports "cash cow" and CA worships money. comments Beating India in Perth is not an achievement of note, despite India's fast bowling be so much improved of late, it should be a fairly routine win. It only occurred because we had Nathan Lyon and the Indians made a huge selection blunder in picking Umesh Yadav. Also our bowlers can bat, India's cannot. Their batting is clearly better than ours apart from the openers with Shaw missing and I think their fast bowlers are better than ours. Ashwin is also a better bowler than Lyon and India clearly missed him in Perth, not least of all because he can bat. I know Kohli said he might have dropped Ashwin anyway but that is easier to say than to do. A combined team with the best of both teams in the series would be, Harris, Shaw, Pujara, Kohli, Rahane, Khawaja, Paine, Ashwin, Lyon, Shami, Bumrah. Included Shaw even though he has not played because Rahul, Vijay and Finch are not deserving a spot in the team and Shaw is clearly hugely better. Khawaja ahead of Head is perhaps strange but I just think Khawaja is the better batsman by a long way. Shami, Starc and Sharma are all close for the second fast bowling spot but I think Shami is the best bowler of the 3. Given our brittle, untried and mostly inexperienced batting lineup..this was a very good win. Given we had been defeated quite comfortably a week earlier..also made this a very good win. Pure conjecture that India would have won if they had chosen Ashwin over Yadav. Ashwins record here is moderate at best. Lyon took advantage of an Indian team down on confidence as I read it. You could see this in the way they played our offie. How many actually took him on. Kholi and his batsmen played Lyon like scared rabbits. Kholi's body language was poor and he lost his cool far too often. The only one to try to put Lyon off his unwavering length was Pant the slogger. He fell predictably. As for Shaw making any difference. Again pure conjecture. He is yet to be tested in Australian conditions. India can thank their lucky stars or was it their gods that Kohli survived at least half a dozen plays and misses to get his ton. Had he not India were looking at a huge deficit. No this was a momentum building win.
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BaggyGreens
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Test_Fan
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xI vacillated about starting a separate thread on this topic, but I don't think any of Smith, Warner or Bancroft should ever be captain or vice captain again under any circumstances. They brought the game into disrepute. I come from a small place. I know on good authority from a senior Shield colleague of Paine's that he was in utter disbelief when he found out that what those three had done with the ball tampering incident in SA. h ecoul don twelve that had dome it. He had no idea beforehand and was totally shocked. I'm even uneasy about them being selected again. ATM Paine and Langer are constantly in conversation all the time discussing tactics. They lead the team. I'd not want to see any pernicious and destabilising influences return. If they are selected again, they need the riot read to them to shut up and keep their heads down. Smith's body language was atrocious as captain, always looking frustrated with his teammates. He was too young and too immature for the captaincy. Apart from Paine, Lyon, Hazlewood and Starc, nobody else is really established in the team, apart from arguably Usman. Cummins has faded from even a year ago and isn't the bowler he was. As long as Paine's form holds out he should be captain for mine. I am biased as he was a student in a school I taught at. I bowled to him in the playground. I think he looks like the best in the role since Mark Taylor. Ponting and Clarke exploded publicly at times - a bad look for a captain. Waugh didn't have the respect of some teammates. Some considered him selfish and not supporting them in times of difficulty. Taylor was a revered figure. Langer cleaned out West Aussie cricket. He suspended Tom Triffet, the Tassie recruited wicketkeeper, who was caught breaking and entering on a WA tour with a teammate. Langer also suspended both Marshes for inappropriate behaviour. He came down on them like a ton of bricks! ATM our batting is abysmal, but if Renshaw can regain the the form he had, it will start to look brighter. We need a string team ethos ATM - not one prone to cheating. I don't think Warner is in any danger of ever getting a captaincy position again... Smudger is a lot younger than Paine... so I would not rule him out entirely in the future... Paine is 34 - 3 seasons max after this one left - more likely 2. And Smudger is ineligible for a year after return anyway... Warner and Smith are going to be crowd sledged endlessly for a while (in England all tour for sure), so they may not find it easy going for a while. I am not entirely convinced that Warner will even win over the Aus public again, who for years went into bat for him, just because of the CA team... who feel let down. They would rather he had punched de Kock than sandpaper the ball through Bancroft as reported... He has learnt somethi Smithy - he was weak to Warner. He will regret it immensely. But - if he makes runs, the Aussie public will forgive him... As re his captaincy in future, he has learnt something from this that none of all those runs could ever teach him.... Gday Paddles, I totally agree with you, Warner may even have trouble getting back into the side, Bancroft should slot in again as I do not feel there is much anger towards him from the public. Smith will return, probably better for what happened & I still think if no one else stands up he will be captain again when he is eligible I can not see Bancroft coming back any time soon. He was under scrutiny before his misdemeanour for a dodgy technique. Tim deserves to have the captaincy for as long as he wants. Smith can wait. If Marsh does not cement his spot then give Smith the deputy badge. Despite my not liking any wk / captain as I have posted, Smith as VC to Paine would work. As I have posted the only way for Paine to stay captain is have an extremely good VC beside him to help out. Smith could do that & at the same time be the captain in waiting for when Paine retires. Interesting thought Respectfully, disagree, JJ. Paine is captain in his own right. He spends a lot of time conferring with Langer. Problem is Langer is not on the field & who decides on last minute changes that Paine misses because he's concentrating on behind the stumps. To keep Paine as captain a really good VC is required to actively help him out - we don't have one - Too much for a WC/captain. Obviously if Smith was in the mix, would not be for a while - who is there with Marsh no guarantee to keep his spot. This is a huge weakness in the Australian side and needs rectifying. I think Finch has a very good cricket brain from what I hear from the LOC internationals when he has captained Aus (I don't watch any of it though). Usman is also a state captain - as is Head. He has these resources to draw on out on the field. Paine has played with George Bailey in the Shield for years - and they are very close mates. Paine has also played a lot of Shield cricket and a fair few LOC internationals. In addition, he had a very good overseas tour a few years back when he replaced Haddin as Test keeper - Pakistan? There was a school of though he should replace Haddin as Test keeper then, because he was a better gloveman and had done little wrong with the bat. Moreover, Paine was already identified as a future Australian captain even then. It just happens he was a state player with arguably the best captain in the country in George Bailey. Bailey also said he would step aside for Paine to captain Tas , if he was being groomed for the Test captaincy. Then the Aussie Test selectors selected Haddin again and Paine got injured. Gday Dc, thanks for that, as a lot of info on Paine I wasn't aware of. Part of being in the wild west and we are very parochial. I quess it comes down to a VC that can help him. My problem with Finch, is that I do not see him being in the team long term in any position as his technique has too many problems and he is also 32. Mitch Marsh & Handscomb positions are tenuous, so pending on the team selected for MCG & result of same, CA could be finally forced to face reality & make some changes, which may be the time they sort out the VC. Khawaja I put forward on a previous post, as I did not know much of his background. I now see him as a long term number 3, able to open if a quick wicket lost, can stay if required to anchor an innings and score freely when required & one of the few experienced batsmen I see keeping his place. So is he a future VC or is he too old? If Burns comes in - RH batsman, he is 29 but again I do not know much of his background. Our list does not seem to have an up & coming player to be VC and groomed for a future captain. Thanks for posting, JJ. I've been trying to provide some impetus to this Cricket forum for a long time, trying to induce football fans who follow cricket on IS to participate more regularly. Since we've picked up Baggers, MikeR, Paddles, Test Fan and you, we have a lot of content to augment the circa 10 who post frequently or sporadically who've probably come through the football section on IS. ATM we have a scenario where some of our best players are unsuitable for leadership roles, and other players well suited to captaincy aren't established national team players or good enough. I think Smith was lucky to have the very mature, experienced WA captain, Voges, and the very experienced, Chris Rogers, to seek advice from for a period of his captaincy. Once they departed, I'm not sure who he had to provide words of wisdom. Gday DC, I was searching for a site to vent my frustration at the state of Australian cricket & especially the lack of mainstream media addressing the problem and found this forum. I am enjoying participating, I am expanding my overall knowledge of the background of some of the players and as you will have noted I don't pull my punches. The beauty of forums, specially sports forums, is you can do be as opinionated at you wish. As you say they are just the place to vent your frustrations, praise players that deserve it and criticise those that frustrate. I have been doing just this for five years now. Some of my posts are taken as a grain of salt.. some rubbished while others receive some praise. Above all my main aim is for my posts to provide the forum with a good basis for debate on a whole range of subjects. It is early days but does our win in Perth mean Australian cricket is about to turn the corner after a "annus horribilis" or horrible year? We do need tho to tread cautiously before making bold predictions we can not back as this current batting squad is far from the finished product. This is the first time in decades that Australia is in danger of losing at home to a sub continental team. Many pundits in fact had India favorites at the start of the series with us minus run machines Steve Smith and Dave Warner. We could still lose the series..with plenty of work to be done in Melbourne and Sydney. To be brutally honest Australian cricket is in a parlous state when it comes to batting talent. By talent I mean Test match quality. Players who are prepared to value their wicket and bat time. Players with the required technique to combat the best bowling and build the big 400 plus scores of the past. I am seeing more increasingly.. and not only among our own batsmen.. many players losing their wickets to shots manufactured in the white ball game. This is a worrying trend and shows the influence the short formats have had on our purest form of the sport. I am seeing young batsmen just out of juniors with questionable techniques born of white ball cricket. Where are our junior coaches. Why are they not detecting these flaws and rectifying them before their charge reaches senior level? What is CA doing about this. It is even aware of this blot on our sport? I have maintained for years now that our U17/19 junior national championships need as a matter of urgency a red ball component. Say a 4 day match to kick off the tournament. I even emailed CA suggesting this. Did not even receive a reply. We all know why as white ball cricket.. specially BBL T20 is the sports "cash cow" and CA worships money. comments Beating India in Perth is not an achievement of note, despite India's fast bowling be so much improved of late, it should be a fairly routine win. It only occurred because we had Nathan Lyon and the Indians made a huge selection blunder in picking Umesh Yadav. Also our bowlers can bat, India's cannot. Their batting is clearly better than ours apart from the openers with Shaw missing and I think their fast bowlers are better than ours. Ashwin is also a better bowler than Lyon and India clearly missed him in Perth, not least of all because he can bat. I know Kohli said he might have dropped Ashwin anyway but that is easier to say than to do. A combined team with the best of both teams in the series would be, Harris, Shaw, Pujara, Kohli, Rahane, Khawaja, Paine, Ashwin, Lyon, Shami, Bumrah. Included Shaw even though he has not played because Rahul, Vijay and Finch are not deserving a spot in the team and Shaw is clearly hugely better. Khawaja ahead of Head is perhaps strange but I just think Khawaja is the better batsman by a long way. Shami, Starc and Sharma are all close for the second fast bowling spot but I think Shami is the best bowler of the 3. Given our brittle, untried and mostly inexperienced batting lineup..this was a very good win. Given we had been defeated quite comfortably a week earlier..also made this a very good win. Pure conjecture that India would have won if they had chosen Ashwin over Yadav. Ashwins record here is moderate at best. Lyon took advantage of an Indian team down on confidence as I read it. You could see this in the way they played our offie. How many actually took him on. Kholi and his batsmen played Lyon like scared rabbits. Kholi's body language was poor and he lost his cool far too often. The only one to try to put Lyon off his unwavering length was Pant the slogger. He fell predictably. As for Shaw making any difference. Again pure conjecture. He is yet to be tested in Australian conditions. India can thank their lucky stars or was it their gods that Kohli survived at least half a dozen plays and misses to get his ton. Had he not India were looking at a huge deficit. No this was a momentum building win. Our batting line up should not be brittle, untried and mostly inexperienced. It is because Australian cricket is failing at producing batsmen. It was a good win for the team which won, BUT THAT TEAM IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH. It should be so much better. Our fast bowlers should be better in these conditions, our batsmen should be better in these conditions and that should be what makes the differrence. From what has been said about Ashwin he has learnt how to bowl in Australia from watching how Lyon bowls and Lyon has learnt how to bowl in India from watching Ashwin. Bowlers are capable of improving themselves, Ashwin has done so, his performance in Adelaide showed that. Also coming up against a weaker batting line up helps him a bit.
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Test_Fan
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He is the worst type of cricketer, giving up proper cricket for fake cricket. Lost all respect for him. If he decides to play proper cricket again then I will take some notice of what he does. Chris Lynn is another on of those who have sold their soul to cricket's devil.
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Test_Fan
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And another example of Australian cricket losing its way was the decision to allow Mitch Marsh and Peter Siddle leave the test squad to play BBL. Marsh should not be in the squad but seeing he is the last thing that should be happening is him getting into completely the wrong mindset by playing that shit. He needs be practising putting value on his wicket not wildly slogging. Players talk about it being hard to change mindset between cricket and fake cricket yet the CA and selectors willingly contaminate his mindset.
MONEY, MONEY, MONEY, all about the money the BBL can reap while it is poisoning the remnants of cricket left in this nation. We will be soon like the West Indies who can not produce batsmen or bowlers. Will Smith and Warner be our last high quality test batsmen like Chanderpaul was for the West Indies? And Kemar Roach is the best fast bowler they have produced since Walsh retired and he is not very good.
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jaszyjim
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+x+xGday all, I decided to do some research into the ages that Australian test players retired from test cricket. This was brought about due to Paine's age & how much do you put into an inexperienced captain that has a limited number of years left, ie, by the time he has learnt enough to become an effective captain, he will be ready to retire. The groups I looked were captain-batsmen from AB to present; Wicket keepers from Swampy to present & pace bowlers from Lille / Thomo to present. Average retirement age from test cricket are; Captain-batsmen, ranged from 34 to 38, average = 36 Wicket keepers, ranged from 35 to 37, average = 36 Pace bowlers, ranged from 31 to 36, average = 34 I was surprised as I did not think keepers would last as long as batsmen & pace bowlers only 2 years less. So Paine at 34 realistically has 2 to 3 years left, is this enough to warrant him the captaincy or is it as I posted before, there is no one else of captaincy potential, who is seen to be in the team even that long. If this is the case CA & the selectors have a lot to answer for & why is Holmes still chairman of selectors? Why do you think Paine is currently not an effective captain? To be fair to the selectors and CA they would have thought they had a long term captain in place in Steve Smith but he made a huge mistake and was removed from the side. Travis Head was made captain of South Australia at age 21 and if he can secure his place in the side he could be an option in 2-3 years. I have posted my views on Paine & to sum it up; Do not agree with Keeper / Captains full stop. He often has poor field placings that are not micro managed, probably because he is too busy behind the stumps. He is inexperienced as a captain & here we are talking test cricket = the best of the best. The problem is due to CA poor management & selection, we do not even have a viable VC to back him up or replace him. Whilst Smith & Warner's unexpected exit would have caught CA out, it shows the very poor depth in our side = 0. It's like Finch, has a very poor technique & yet people still want him in the side as a number 5. The position he bats in doesn't change his poor technique - get rid of him. I like Harris & Head, simply based on what I saw as I do not know their backgrounds - A lot to learn at test level but both look promising & well worth sticking with' ie they exhibited good test batting at times, with a reasonable technique.
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Test_Fan
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+x+x+xGday all, I decided to do some research into the ages that Australian test players retired from test cricket. This was brought about due to Paine's age & how much do you put into an inexperienced captain that has a limited number of years left, ie, by the time he has learnt enough to become an effective captain, he will be ready to retire. The groups I looked were captain-batsmen from AB to present; Wicket keepers from Swampy to present & pace bowlers from Lille / Thomo to present. Average retirement age from test cricket are; Captain-batsmen, ranged from 34 to 38, average = 36 Wicket keepers, ranged from 35 to 37, average = 36 Pace bowlers, ranged from 31 to 36, average = 34 I was surprised as I did not think keepers would last as long as batsmen & pace bowlers only 2 years less. So Paine at 34 realistically has 2 to 3 years left, is this enough to warrant him the captaincy or is it as I posted before, there is no one else of captaincy potential, who is seen to be in the team even that long. If this is the case CA & the selectors have a lot to answer for & why is Holmes still chairman of selectors? Why do you think Paine is currently not an effective captain? To be fair to the selectors and CA they would have thought they had a long term captain in place in Steve Smith but he made a huge mistake and was removed from the side. Travis Head was made captain of South Australia at age 21 and if he can secure his place in the side he could be an option in 2-3 years. I have posted my views on Paine & to sum it up; Do not agree with Keeper / Captains full stop. He often has poor field placings that are not micro managed, probably because he is too busy behind the stumps. He is inexperienced as a captain & here we are talking test cricket = the best of the best. The problem is due to CA poor management & selection, we do not even have a viable VC to back him up or replace him. Whilst Smith & Warner's unexpected exit would have caught CA out, it shows the very poor depth in our side = 0. It's like Finch, has a very poor technique & yet people still want him in the side as a number 5. The position he bats in doesn't change his poor technique - get rid of him. I like Harris & Head, simply based on what I saw as I do not know their backgrounds - A lot to learn at test level but both look promising & well worth sticking with' ie they exhibited good test batting at times, with a reasonable technique. On Finch, the new ball tends to expose technical flaws more than the old ball and opening is mostly a specialist position. You would never open with Kohli or Smith even though they are arguably two of the top three batsmen in the world. Williamson bats 3 so might be okay opening. I largely think Finch could be given a middle order spot because he is so clearly not an opener but is fighting hard and not being totally hopeless. The selectors seem almost to be sacrificing him at the top of the order so they can justify bringing Warner straight back in to replace him and that is just not fair.
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BaggyGreens
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+xHe is the worst type of cricketer, giving up proper cricket for fake cricket. Lost all respect for him. If he decides to play proper cricket again then I will take some notice of what he does. Chris Lynn is another on of those who have sold their soul to cricket's devil. Faulkner did not sell out to "fake" cricket. A serious leg injury apparently is the reason he has not been playing domestic red ball cricket...any cricket for that matter for over a year. If memory serves the last time I saw him bowl was for Tassie in a 2017 Shield game. Then he simply dropped out of circulation. Virtually nothing reported by the media as to why. Faulkner has been wrongly pigeon holed as a limited overs cricketer.. purely because he took the format by storm when still a kid. His FC record is more than respectable: 63 matches.. @24 ball @30 bat. Specially with the ball he is up among our best domestic red ball bowlers and murders fellow all rounders Marsh and Stoinis. To top that .. Faulkner took 6 wkts in his only Test match. I for one hope we have not seen the last of the multi talented James Faulkner in red ball cricket.
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BaggyGreens
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+x+x+x+xGday all, I decided to do some research into the ages that Australian test players retired from test cricket. This was brought about due to Paine's age & how much do you put into an inexperienced captain that has a limited number of years left, ie, by the time he has learnt enough to become an effective captain, he will be ready to retire. The groups I looked were captain-batsmen from AB to present; Wicket keepers from Swampy to present & pace bowlers from Lille / Thomo to present. Average retirement age from test cricket are; Captain-batsmen, ranged from 34 to 38, average = 36 Wicket keepers, ranged from 35 to 37, average = 36 Pace bowlers, ranged from 31 to 36, average = 34 I was surprised as I did not think keepers would last as long as batsmen & pace bowlers only 2 years less. So Paine at 34 realistically has 2 to 3 years left, is this enough to warrant him the captaincy or is it as I posted before, there is no one else of captaincy potential, who is seen to be in the team even that long. If this is the case CA & the selectors have a lot to answer for & why is Holmes still chairman of selectors? Why do you think Paine is currently not an effective captain? To be fair to the selectors and CA they would have thought they had a long term captain in place in Steve Smith but he made a huge mistake and was removed from the side. Travis Head was made captain of South Australia at age 21 and if he can secure his place in the side he could be an option in 2-3 years. I have posted my views on Paine & to sum it up; Do not agree with Keeper / Captains full stop. He often has poor field placings that are not micro managed, probably because he is too busy behind the stumps. He is inexperienced as a captain & here we are talking test cricket = the best of the best. The problem is due to CA poor management & selection, we do not even have a viable VC to back him up or replace him. Whilst Smith & Warner's unexpected exit would have caught CA out, it shows the very poor depth in our side = 0. It's like Finch, has a very poor technique & yet people still want him in the side as a number 5. The position he bats in doesn't change his poor technique - get rid of him. I like Harris & Head, simply based on what I saw as I do not know their backgrounds - A lot to learn at test level but both look promising & well worth sticking with' ie they exhibited good test batting at times, with a reasonable technique. On Finch, the new ball tends to expose technical flaws more than the old ball and opening is mostly a specialist position. You would never open with Kohli or Smith even though they are arguably two of the top three batsmen in the world. Williamson bats 3 so might be okay opening. I largely think Finch could be given a middle order spot because he is so clearly not an opener but is fighting hard and not being totally hopeless. The selectors seem almost to be sacrificing him at the top of the order so they can justify bringing Warner straight back in to replace him and that is just not fair. You are pretty spot with your assessment. Finch is opening as a stop gap measure while Warner is hibernating in white ball cricket. To be honest Warner has improved as a red ball cricketer since coming into Test cricket but he is still a 'see it hit it' type of player..same as Finch. Wondering what CA is thinking now that Finch has not folded like a pack of cards and is at least making a decent fist of a position to which he is clearly unsuited. We both agree on the batting frailties. No way are our fast bowling attack under performing. Starc was off with his radar and down on pace in Adelaide . and yes Cummins was under par in Perth. But as a cohesive unit they are doing their job. Hazlewood , specially and Starc created many plays and misses in Perth. As did India's Bumrah. All three were unlucky.
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Test_Fan
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+x+xHe is the worst type of cricketer, giving up proper cricket for fake cricket. Lost all respect for him. If he decides to play proper cricket again then I will take some notice of what he does. Chris Lynn is another on of those who have sold their soul to cricket's devil. Faulkner did not sell out to "fake" cricket. A serious leg injury apparently is the reason he has not been playing domestic red ball cricket...any cricket for that matter for over a year. If memory serves the last time I saw him bowl was for Tassie in a 2017 Shield game. Then he simply dropped out of circulation. Virtually nothing reported by the media as to why. Faulkner has been wrongly pigeon holed as a limited overs cricketer.. purely because he took the format by storm when still a kid. His FC record is more than respectable: 63 matches.. @24 ball @30 bat. Specially with the ball he is up among our best domestic red ball bowlers and murders fellow all rounders Marsh and Stoinis. To top that .. Faulkner took 6 wkts in his only Test match. I for one hope we have not seen the last of the multi talented James Faulkner in red ball cricket. Maybe, maybe not sold out. I am well aware of his quality as a red ball bowler, although his batting is not really good enough for him to be a true all rounder at test level he is certainly another excellent bowler who can be fairly well like Cummins, Starc, Pattinson and perhap Jhye Richardson.
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BaggyGreens
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+x+x+xHe is the worst type of cricketer, giving up proper cricket for fake cricket. Lost all respect for him. If he decides to play proper cricket again then I will take some notice of what he does. Chris Lynn is another on of those who have sold their soul to cricket's devil. Faulkner did not sell out to "fake" cricket. A serious leg injury apparently is the reason he has not been playing domestic red ball cricket...any cricket for that matter for over a year. If memory serves the last time I saw him bowl was for Tassie in a 2017 Shield game. Then he simply dropped out of circulation. Virtually nothing reported by the media as to why. Faulkner has been wrongly pigeon holed as a limited overs cricketer.. purely because he took the format by storm when still a kid. His FC record is more than respectable: 63 matches.. @24 ball @30 bat. Specially with the ball he is up among our best domestic red ball bowlers and murders fellow all rounders Marsh and Stoinis. To top that .. Faulkner took 6 wkts in his only Test match. I for one hope we have not seen the last of the multi talented James Faulkner in red ball cricket. Maybe, maybe not sold out. I am well aware of his quality as a red ball bowler, although his batting is not really good enough for him to be a true all rounder at test level he is certainly another excellent bowler who can be fairly well like Cummins, Starc, Pattinson and perhap Jhye Richardson. I too think he may have missed the Test boat as an all rounder. I would certainly consider him as a change bowler. Good lefties dont exactly grow on trees. His late order batting would also come in handy.
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jaszyjim
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+x+x+x+xGday all, I decided to do some research into the ages that Australian test players retired from test cricket. This was brought about due to Paine's age & how much do you put into an inexperienced captain that has a limited number of years left, ie, by the time he has learnt enough to become an effective captain, he will be ready to retire. The groups I looked were captain-batsmen from AB to present; Wicket keepers from Swampy to present & pace bowlers from Lille / Thomo to present. Average retirement age from test cricket are; Captain-batsmen, ranged from 34 to 38, average = 36 Wicket keepers, ranged from 35 to 37, average = 36 Pace bowlers, ranged from 31 to 36, average = 34 I was surprised as I did not think keepers would last as long as batsmen & pace bowlers only 2 years less. So Paine at 34 realistically has 2 to 3 years left, is this enough to warrant him the captaincy or is it as I posted before, there is no one else of captaincy potential, who is seen to be in the team even that long. If this is the case CA & the selectors have a lot to answer for & why is Holmes still chairman of selectors? Why do you think Paine is currently not an effective captain? To be fair to the selectors and CA they would have thought they had a long term captain in place in Steve Smith but he made a huge mistake and was removed from the side. Travis Head was made captain of South Australia at age 21 and if he can secure his place in the side he could be an option in 2-3 years. I have posted my views on Paine & to sum it up; Do not agree with Keeper / Captains full stop. He often has poor field placings that are not micro managed, probably because he is too busy behind the stumps. He is inexperienced as a captain & here we are talking test cricket = the best of the best. The problem is due to CA poor management & selection, we do not even have a viable VC to back him up or replace him. Whilst Smith & Warner's unexpected exit would have caught CA out, it shows the very poor depth in our side = 0. It's like Finch, has a very poor technique & yet people still want him in the side as a number 5. The position he bats in doesn't change his poor technique - get rid of him. I like Harris & Head, simply based on what I saw as I do not know their backgrounds - A lot to learn at test level but both look promising & well worth sticking with' ie they exhibited good test batting at times, with a reasonable technique. On Finch, the new ball tends to expose technical flaws more than the old ball and opening is mostly a specialist position. You would never open with Kohli or Smith even though they are arguably two of the top three batsmen in the world. Williamson bats 3 so might be okay opening. I largely think Finch could be given a middle order spot because he is so clearly not an opener but is fighting hard and not being totally hopeless. The selectors seem almost to be sacrificing him at the top of the order so they can justify bringing Warner straight back in to replace him and that is just not fair. Gday TF, Agree with you in the sense, is CA purposely fielding a sub bar side so both Smith & Warner slot straight back in, no questions asked? Would dropping Finch down the order stop him falling over the ball, which is the start of his poor technique. How bad is the side, when the reason for keeping Finch is that he is fighting hard & not totally hopeless, wouldn't it be nice to have a batsman that you can't keep out of the side because he is batting so well.
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MikeR
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Faulkner is the face for T10. yes it exists in Saudi Arabia. It has been officially approved by the ICC. It appears to be the push for inclusion at the Olympic games. http://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/25399188/dwayne-bravo-james-faulkner-back-t10-become-global-phenomenonSuggestions for a more ridiculous game of cricket?
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Test_Fan
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+x+x+x+x+xGday all, I decided to do some research into the ages that Australian test players retired from test cricket. This was brought about due to Paine's age & how much do you put into an inexperienced captain that has a limited number of years left, ie, by the time he has learnt enough to become an effective captain, he will be ready to retire. The groups I looked were captain-batsmen from AB to present; Wicket keepers from Swampy to present & pace bowlers from Lille / Thomo to present. Average retirement age from test cricket are; Captain-batsmen, ranged from 34 to 38, average = 36 Wicket keepers, ranged from 35 to 37, average = 36 Pace bowlers, ranged from 31 to 36, average = 34 I was surprised as I did not think keepers would last as long as batsmen & pace bowlers only 2 years less. So Paine at 34 realistically has 2 to 3 years left, is this enough to warrant him the captaincy or is it as I posted before, there is no one else of captaincy potential, who is seen to be in the team even that long. If this is the case CA & the selectors have a lot to answer for & why is Holmes still chairman of selectors? Why do you think Paine is currently not an effective captain? To be fair to the selectors and CA they would have thought they had a long term captain in place in Steve Smith but he made a huge mistake and was removed from the side. Travis Head was made captain of South Australia at age 21 and if he can secure his place in the side he could be an option in 2-3 years. I have posted my views on Paine & to sum it up; Do not agree with Keeper / Captains full stop. He often has poor field placings that are not micro managed, probably because he is too busy behind the stumps. He is inexperienced as a captain & here we are talking test cricket = the best of the best. The problem is due to CA poor management & selection, we do not even have a viable VC to back him up or replace him. Whilst Smith & Warner's unexpected exit would have caught CA out, it shows the very poor depth in our side = 0. It's like Finch, has a very poor technique & yet people still want him in the side as a number 5. The position he bats in doesn't change his poor technique - get rid of him. I like Harris & Head, simply based on what I saw as I do not know their backgrounds - A lot to learn at test level but both look promising & well worth sticking with' ie they exhibited good test batting at times, with a reasonable technique. On Finch, the new ball tends to expose technical flaws more than the old ball and opening is mostly a specialist position. You would never open with Kohli or Smith even though they are arguably two of the top three batsmen in the world. Williamson bats 3 so might be okay opening. I largely think Finch could be given a middle order spot because he is so clearly not an opener but is fighting hard and not being totally hopeless. The selectors seem almost to be sacrificing him at the top of the order so they can justify bringing Warner straight back in to replace him and that is just not fair. Gday TF, Agree with you in the sense, is CA purposely fielding a sub bar side so both Smith & Warner slot straight back in, no questions asked? Would dropping Finch down the order stop him falling over the ball, which is the start of his poor technique. How bad is the side, when the reason for keeping Finch is that he is fighting hard & not totally hopeless, wouldn't it be nice to have a batsman that you can't keep out of the side because he is batting so well. Smith comes straight back in because he is just so good. However Warner is a far more controversial character, he is not as good as Smith, long way short of it and it would be harder to bring him back in if there were two genuine openers doing well. Harris is a genuine opener, so is Renshaw and Burns has transformed himself into an opener. Finch is not an opener so picking him just leaves the spot effectively open. Even if Finch does really well they can always fall back on him not being an opener and push him down the order. There should be only 3 names currently, Harris, Burns and Renshaw talked about as opening the batting in this series. Renshaw is out of form so Burns and Harris should be playing. When Warner comes back he is the 4th player probably fighting for three positions on the Ashes tour unless they consider Khawaja as the back up opener. And yes it would be great to have 6 batsmen who are playing very well and are clearly of test match standard, but that is not happening any time soon. And I am not completely glued on keeping Finch in the team down the order but I certainly do not want him to open. It just seems a bit harsh to play a middle order batsman as an opener and then throw him away when he fails without giving him the chance of being a middle order batsman when the batting line up is so weak.
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jaszyjim
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+x+x+x+x+x+xGday all, I decided to do some research into the ages that Australian test players retired from test cricket. This was brought about due to Paine's age & how much do you put into an inexperienced captain that has a limited number of years left, ie, by the time he has learnt enough to become an effective captain, he will be ready to retire. The groups I looked were captain-batsmen from AB to present; Wicket keepers from Swampy to present & pace bowlers from Lille / Thomo to present. Average retirement age from test cricket are; Captain-batsmen, ranged from 34 to 38, average = 36 Wicket keepers, ranged from 35 to 37, average = 36 Pace bowlers, ranged from 31 to 36, average = 34 I was surprised as I did not think keepers would last as long as batsmen & pace bowlers only 2 years less. So Paine at 34 realistically has 2 to 3 years left, is this enough to warrant him the captaincy or is it as I posted before, there is no one else of captaincy potential, who is seen to be in the team even that long. If this is the case CA & the selectors have a lot to answer for & why is Holmes still chairman of selectors? Why do you think Paine is currently not an effective captain? To be fair to the selectors and CA they would have thought they had a long term captain in place in Steve Smith but he made a huge mistake and was removed from the side. Travis Head was made captain of South Australia at age 21 and if he can secure his place in the side he could be an option in 2-3 years. I have posted my views on Paine & to sum it up; Do not agree with Keeper / Captains full stop. He often has poor field placings that are not micro managed, probably because he is too busy behind the stumps. He is inexperienced as a captain & here we are talking test cricket = the best of the best. The problem is due to CA poor management & selection, we do not even have a viable VC to back him up or replace him. Whilst Smith & Warner's unexpected exit would have caught CA out, it shows the very poor depth in our side = 0. It's like Finch, has a very poor technique & yet people still want him in the side as a number 5. The position he bats in doesn't change his poor technique - get rid of him. I like Harris & Head, simply based on what I saw as I do not know their backgrounds - A lot to learn at test level but both look promising & well worth sticking with' ie they exhibited good test batting at times, with a reasonable technique. On Finch, the new ball tends to expose technical flaws more than the old ball and opening is mostly a specialist position. You would never open with Kohli or Smith even though they are arguably two of the top three batsmen in the world. Williamson bats 3 so might be okay opening. I largely think Finch could be given a middle order spot because he is so clearly not an opener but is fighting hard and not being totally hopeless. The selectors seem almost to be sacrificing him at the top of the order so they can justify bringing Warner straight back in to replace him and that is just not fair. Gday TF, Agree with you in the sense, is CA purposely fielding a sub bar side so both Smith & Warner slot straight back in, no questions asked? Would dropping Finch down the order stop him falling over the ball, which is the start of his poor technique. How bad is the side, when the reason for keeping Finch is that he is fighting hard & not totally hopeless, wouldn't it be nice to have a batsman that you can't keep out of the side because he is batting so well. Smith comes straight back in because he is just so good. However Warner is a far more controversial character, he is not as good as Smith, long way short of it and it would be harder to bring him back in if there were two genuine openers doing well. Harris is a genuine opener, so is Renshaw and Burns has transformed himself into an opener. Finch is not an opener so picking him just leaves the spot effectively open. Even if Finch does really well they can always fall back on him not being an opener and push him down the order. There should be only 3 names currently, Harris, Burns and Renshaw talked about as opening the batting in this series. Renshaw is out of form so Burns and Harris should be playing. When Warner comes back he is the 4th player probably fighting for three positions on the Ashes tour unless they consider Khawaja as the back up opener. And yes it would be great to have 6 batsmen who are playing very well and are clearly of test match standard, but that is not happening any time soon. And I am not completely glued on keeping Finch in the team down the order but I certainly do not want him to open. It just seems a bit harsh to play a middle order batsman as an opener and then throw him away when he fails without giving him the chance of being a middle order batsman when the batting line up is so weak. Gday TF, Agree
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BaggyGreens
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Is this catering for the decreasing attention span of cricket watchers. Imho T20 is just about the correct time for limited overs cricket. 10 over cricket will not hold my attention. Having said this.. there is a annual tournament in Hong Kong. If not mistaken that goes for a mere 6 overs. Someone must be watching as it has been going for a decade or more. Also if memory serves me there was a short lived 10 over tournament several decades ago. Have a feeling it was in Asia somewhere.
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BaggyGreens
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+xIs this catering for the decreasing attention span of cricket watchers. Imho T20 is just about the correct time for limited overs cricket. 10 over cricket will not hold my attention. Having said this.. there is a annual tournament in Hong Kong. If not mistaken that goes for a mere 6 overs. Someone must be watching as it has been going for a decade or more. If CA is looking for an excuse to jettison Warner then Harris or Renshaw or Burns have build an irresistible case before the ASHES SQUAD IS PICKED. So they had better get cracking. Harris has the rails runs at the moment. He has a potential four more tests of the summer to show he deserves to stay at this level. He has promise and a sound technique.. no doubt about that. But he does have a tendency to flash at balls he should leave. Burns has been tried and discarded as has Renshaw. Of the two my money is on Renshaw to seal a long term opening role. I like Burns. .so I wanna see him start smashing down the door for, if not opener, then a middle order spot. Both he and Renshaw need to nail the last four Shield rounds facing the Dukes ball.
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Test_Fan
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+x+xIs this catering for the decreasing attention span of cricket watchers. Imho T20 is just about the correct time for limited overs cricket. 10 over cricket will not hold my attention. Having said this.. there is a annual tournament in Hong Kong. If not mistaken that goes for a mere 6 overs. Someone must be watching as it has been going for a decade or more. If CA is looking for an excuse to jettison Warner then Harris or Renshaw or Burns have to cement their spots before the ASHES SQUAD IS PICKED. So they had better get cracking. Harris has the rails runs at the moment. He has a potential four more tests of the summer to show he deserves to stay at this level. He has promise and a sound technique.. no doubt about that. But he does have a tendency to flash at balls he should leave. Burns has been tried and discarded as has Renshaw. Of the two my money is on Renshaw to seal a long term opening role. I like Burns. .so I wanna see him build an irresistible case for, if not opener, then a middle order spot. Renshaw needs to nail the last four Shield rounds facing the Dukes ball. I think CA is doing the opposite, making sure they can bring Warner straight back in despite everything. I do agree though with most of what you are saying, Burns is certainly no certainty to be a good long term opener for Australia, but he deserves a chance more than anyone else at the moment. It just not take much to be the most deserving at the moment. India have just added an opener to their squad whose FC average is just under 50, we just do not have any batsmen like that. Harris does need to improve his shot selection outside off stump, mostly by just leaving balls he now plays with that nothing angled bat sort of cut that tends to be too close to the body. Head similarly needs to show more discipline outside off stump as well. A batsman, especially an opener, needs to know where his off stump is and be able to leave confidently. One of the things a good fast bowler will do is threaten to hit the stumps and try and encourage a batsman to play at balls they should not be. There was a lot of talk about the bowlers bowling too few balls that hit the stumps in the last test match. While that is true it never seemed to be mentioned that bowling balls that look like they might hit the stumps but move away or go straight if previous balls have been moving into the stumps is a great way of getting wickets.
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Decentric
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+x+x+x+x+x+xGday all, I decided to do some research into the ages that Australian test players retired from test cricket. This was brought about due to Paine's age & how much do you put into an inexperienced captain that has a limited number of years left, ie, by the time he has learnt enough to become an effective captain, he will be ready to retire. The groups I looked were captain-batsmen from AB to present; Wicket keepers from Swampy to present & pace bowlers from Lille / Thomo to present. Average retirement age from test cricket are; Captain-batsmen, ranged from 34 to 38, average = 36 Wicket keepers, ranged from 35 to 37, average = 36 Pace bowlers, ranged from 31 to 36, average = 34 I was surprised as I did not think keepers would last as long as batsmen & pace bowlers only 2 years less. So Paine at 34 realistically has 2 to 3 years left, is this enough to warrant him the captaincy or is it as I posted before, there is no one else of captaincy potential, who is seen to be in the team even that long. If this is the case CA & the selectors have a lot to answer for & why is Holmes still chairman of selectors? Why do you think Paine is currently not an effective captain? To be fair to the selectors and CA they would have thought they had a long term captain in place in Steve Smith but he made a huge mistake and was removed from the side. Travis Head was made captain of South Australia at age 21 and if he can secure his place in the side he could be an option in 2-3 years. I have posted my views on Paine & to sum it up; Do not agree with Keeper / Captains full stop. He often has poor field placings that are not micro managed, probably because he is too busy behind the stumps. He is inexperienced as a captain & here we are talking test cricket = the best of the best. The problem is due to CA poor management & selection, we do not even have a viable VC to back him up or replace him. Whilst Smith & Warner's unexpected exit would have caught CA out, it shows the very poor depth in our side = 0. It's like Finch, has a very poor technique & yet people still want him in the side as a number 5. The position he bats in doesn't change his poor technique - get rid of him. I like Harris & Head, simply based on what I saw as I do not know their backgrounds - A lot to learn at test level but both look promising & well worth sticking with' ie they exhibited good test batting at times, with a reasonable technique. On Finch, the new ball tends to expose technical flaws more than the old ball and opening is mostly a specialist position. You would never open with Kohli or Smith even though they are arguably two of the top three batsmen in the world. Williamson bats 3 so might be okay opening. I largely think Finch could be given a middle order spot because he is so clearly not an opener but is fighting hard and not being totally hopeless. The selectors seem almost to be sacrificing him at the top of the order so they can justify bringing Warner straight back in to replace him and that is just not fair. Gday TF, Agree with you in the sense, is CA purposely fielding a sub bar side so both Smith & Warner slot straight back in, no questions asked? Would dropping Finch down the order stop him falling over the ball, which is the start of his poor technique. How bad is the side, when the reason for keeping Finch is that he is fighting hard & not totally hopeless, wouldn't it be nice to have a batsman that you can't keep out of the side because he is batting so well. Smith comes straight back in because he is just so good. However Warner is a far more controversial character, he is not as good as Smith, long way short of it and it would be harder to bring him back in if there were two genuine openers doing well. Harris is a genuine opener, so is Renshaw and Burns has transformed himself into an opener. Finch is not an opener so picking him just leaves the spot effectively open. Even if Finch does really well they can always fall back on him not being an opener and push him down the order. There should be only 3 names currently, Harris, Burns and Renshaw talked about as opening the batting in this series. Renshaw is out of form so Burns and Harris should be playing. When Warner comes back he is the 4th player probably fighting for three positions on the Ashes tour unless they consider Khawaja as the back up opener. And yes it would be great to have 6 batsmen who are playing very well and are clearly of test match standard, but that is not happening any time soon. And I am not completely glued on keeping Finch in the team down the order but I certainly do not want him to open. It just seems a bit harsh to play a middle order batsman as an opener and then throw him away when he fails without giving him the chance of being a middle order batsman when the batting line up is so weak. Agree, TF. Although I wouldn't discard all other openers outside Harris, Burns, Renshaw and Warner.
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Decentric
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+x+x+xHe is the worst type of cricketer, giving up proper cricket for fake cricket. Lost all respect for him. If he decides to play proper cricket again then I will take some notice of what he does. Chris Lynn is another on of those who have sold their soul to cricket's devil. Faulkner did not sell out to "fake" cricket. A serious leg injury apparently is the reason he has not been playing domestic red ball cricket...any cricket for that matter for over a year. If memory serves the last time I saw him bowl was for Tassie in a 2017 Shield game. Then he simply dropped out of circulation. Virtually nothing reported by the media as to why. Faulkner has been wrongly pigeon holed as a limited overs cricketer.. purely because he took the format by storm when still a kid. His FC record is more than respectable: 63 matches.. @24 ball @30 bat. Specially with the ball he is up among our best domestic red ball bowlers and murders fellow all rounders Marsh and Stoinis. To top that .. Faulkner took 6 wkts in his only Test match. I for one hope we have not seen the last of the multi talented James Faulkner in red ball cricket. Maybe, maybe not sold out. I am well aware of his quality as a red ball bowler, although his batting is not really good enough for him to be a true all rounder at test level he is certainly another excellent bowler who can be fairly well like Cummins, Starc, Pattinson and perhap Jhye Richardson. I've seen Faulkner bowl a lot on a flat Bellerive wicket before he was injured. It has juiced up since he has been injured and the Duke balls have been used in the latter half of the last two seasons too.
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Decentric
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+xGday all, I decided to do some research into the ages that Australian test players retired from test cricket. This was brought about due to Paine's age & how much do you put into an inexperienced captain that has a limited number of years left, ie, by the time he has learnt enough to become an effective captain, he will be ready to retire. The groups I looked were captain-batsmen from AB to present; Wicket keepers from Swampy to present & pace bowlers from Lille / Thomo to present. Average retirement age from test cricket are; Captain-batsmen, ranged from 34 to 38, average = 36 Wicket keepers, ranged from 35 to 37, average = 36 Pace bowlers, ranged from 31 to 36, average = 34 I was surprised as I did not think keepers would last as long as batsmen & pace bowlers only 2 years less. So Paine at 34 realistically has 2 to 3 years left, is this enough to warrant him the captaincy or is it as I posted before, there is no one else of captaincy potential, who is seen to be in the team even that long. If this is the case CA & the selectors have a lot to answer for & why is Holmes still chairman of selectors? I think Finch has great captaincy potential too, but is struggling to cement his place in the team.
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BaggyGreens
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+x+xGday all, I decided to do some research into the ages that Australian test players retired from test cricket. This was brought about due to Paine's age & how much do you put into an inexperienced captain that has a limited number of years left, ie, by the time he has learnt enough to become an effective captain, he will be ready to retire. The groups I looked were captain-batsmen from AB to present; Wicket keepers from Swampy to present & pace bowlers from Lille / Thomo to present. Average retirement age from test cricket are; Captain-batsmen, ranged from 34 to 38, average = 36 Wicket keepers, ranged from 35 to 37, average = 36 Pace bowlers, ranged from 31 to 36, average = 34 I was surprised as I did not think keepers would last as long as batsmen & pace bowlers only 2 years less. So Paine at 34 realistically has 2 to 3 years left, is this enough to warrant him the captaincy or is it as I posted before, there is no one else of captaincy potential, who is seen to be in the team even that long. If this is the case CA & the selectors have a lot to answer for & why is Holmes still chairman of selectors? I think Finch has great captaincy potential too, but is struggling to cement his place in the team. I like CA are happy to keep Paine holding the reins.. simply because he is doing a good job. If he has three years left in the game then let him have them all as team leader. He is a fresh change Australian cricket needed. You have to admire Tim Paine. The way he brushed away the complete distain showed him by Kohli at the end of match handshake...with a simple "it did not bother me". Who saw this? Tim not only offered his hand but patted Kohli's shoulder. The India skipper looked thru him wearing a scowl. Gross arrogancy..or petulant immaturity?
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BaggyGreens
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+x+x+x+x+xI vacillated about starting a separate thread on this topic, but I don't think any of Smith, Warner or Bancroft should ever be captain or vice captain again under any circumstances. They brought the game into disrepute. I come from a small place. I know on good authority from a senior Shield colleague of Paine's that he was in utter disbelief when he found out that what those three had done with the ball tampering incident in SA. h ecoul don twelve that had dome it. He had no idea beforehand and was totally shocked. I'm even uneasy about them being selected again. ATM Paine and Langer are constantly in conversation all the time discussing tactics. They lead the team. I'd not want to see any pernicious and destabilising influences return. If they are selected again, they need the riot read to them to shut up and keep their heads down. Smith's body language was atrocious as captain, always looking frustrated with his teammates. He was too young and too immature for the captaincy. Apart from Paine, Lyon, Hazlewood and Starc, nobody else is really established in the team, apart from arguably Usman. Cummins has faded from even a year ago and isn't the bowler he was. As long as Paine's form holds out he should be captain for mine. I am biased as he was a student in a school I taught at. I bowled to him in the playground. I think he looks like the best in the role since Mark Taylor. Ponting and Clarke exploded publicly at times - a bad look for a captain. Waugh didn't have the respect of some teammates. Some considered him selfish and not supporting them in times of difficulty. Taylor was a revered figure. Langer cleaned out West Aussie cricket. He suspended Tom Triffet, the Tassie recruited wicketkeeper, who was caught breaking and entering on a WA tour with a teammate. Langer also suspended both Marshes for inappropriate behaviour. He came down on them like a ton of bricks! ATM our batting is abysmal, but if Renshaw can regain the the form he had, it will start to look brighter. We need a string team ethos ATM - not one prone to cheating. DC I wondered what happened to Triffet... a Tassie boy. How his star fell after he kept for the victorious 2010 U19 World Cup winners. Triffet is selling real estate in Tas. He blew his chance in WA. Tas didn't want him after his crime. Tasmania has many back up keepers like McDermott, Doran and Dunk. What crime? Mac, Doran and Dunk suck compared to Triffet's glove skills. They do not pick keepers for Australia unless they are the best. Triffet was caught breaking and entering with a WA teammate whilst on tour with WA in Queensland. Whiteman replaced him with the gloves for WA and has done little wrong. Nothing wrong until his current finger injury.. has now missed at least one season.. shades of Tim Paine. Josh Inglis pinched Whitey's spot while he was on injury leave and seems to have retained it. Is Whiteman even still keeping. Did not in a recent FL game.. or was it the tour match?
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