Australian General Cricket Discussion


Australian General Cricket Discussion

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baggygreenmania - 6 Nov 2018 10:23 AM
Paddles - 5 Nov 2018 10:37 AM

You have found me our Paddles. I almost left them off the list. The ICC has been a "toothless tiger" in the past so not completely blameless. They have not done sufficient in bringing more nations into the game.. until very recently..
 Hats off where due. the Test Championship will revitalise our longest form of the game. A great initiative by the ICC and long overdue.

You're definitely not the only one. Many a knowledgeable cricket fan thinks that the ICC runs the game because that is how things typically operate when organised. But the ICC is more like the United Nations - it has no actual sovereignty over its members. USA, Russia and China will do what they want - when they want. The ICC has no teeth at all because it is deliberately designed not to - it is simply a club to determine test, ODI and t20i status, and to organise world cups that make money to grow the game and redistribute some wealth to its members. 

The ICC does not organise the tours, the ICC does not get money from the tours, the ICC does not even supply the rules of cricket (remember when BCCI refused to play under DRS, and only 50 over ODI in Australia/NZ had a 30 metre cricle but England played 55 and 60 over ODI? Or the 8 ball and 6 ball split from country to country?) - all these things are agreed to by the Boards of the teams playing each other.

The only tours that make huge money are the Ashes and everytime India plays anyone, anywhere. The host gets the broadcasting revenue (outside ICC events like world cups) - so everybody wants India touring their backyard.

Put simply, world cricket is not really all that organised outside the world cups and world t20. It is very ad hoc. Member's vote - and if BCCI votes in the majority - it will pass. If BCCI is in the minority - they still often get what they want. Even the member votes are bought and sold for favourable and reciprocal tours. The stronger do as they will to the weaker and the weaker do as they must.

The ICC is simply politics and business in action (with a little dash of developing cricket). But it is certainly not sovereign over international cricket. And its only revenue stream is the World Cup, World T20, Champs Trophy. 

You remember the ICL? The ICC initially said the participants would not be sanctioned because 'who cares?' But the BCCI was so angry that someone else set up pro cricket in India that they demanded the players get banned from all ICC member boards making it 'rebel' and it established the IPL. The BCCI squashed its "competition" where noone else had perceived a 'competitor'. NZC to keep on good terms with the BCCI banned Shane Bond. NZC's best player for playing in something that the NZC relying on the ICC had told him would be fine and okay. Outrageous! 

The biggest challenge facing the ICC is whether it is a charity to grow and support world cricket (which is what it was set up to do) a business for unequal partners (which it has become) - or whether it is an instrument for its stronger members to exercise and maintain status quo over their world cricket power (the direction it is heading in).

And until it sorts itself out, the "good guys" sending friendly and nice former players do not represent their national board's interests - start sending politicians and business moguls - start sending slick and canny operators who see the big picture - because the "nice guys" get chewed up and spat out at the ICC. You don't send nice guys to the UN... you send diplomats and ambassadors. 

“An ambassador is an honest gentleman sent to lie abroad for the good of his country.”

—Sir Henry Wotton, 1604

“Diplomacy, n. The patriotic art of lying for one’s country.”—Ambrose Bierce, The Devil’s Dictionary, 1906

Sorry Baggers, as I said - the ICC causes a pet hate for me ;-)

World cricket is a unique sport in that it attempts to operate in an international league that funds the grass roots while valuing autonomy of individual boards. In Soccer - there is only a world cup every 4 years. In NBA, and NHL - Canadian and USA boards have no sway - it is just the Top Office. Yes, there is the Olympics - but that's it. Baseball doesn't even have the Olympics to worry about for the MLB. Have no doubt - the success of the IPL, the BBL and possibly the 100 (England version of 8 team T20) are direct challenges to the future of international cricket not heading the "franchise" way of Soccer, AFL, Rugby League, Rugby Union, Golf tours and Basketball in the next 100 years. To protect the international game, the ICC needs to become far more like the ATP. It needs to monopolize its members (like many fans thought it had already - but it never did nor intended to) and prioritize the international game before it is too late. And it possibly is already too late given the BCCI has already accumulated more wealth than the rest of the members put together and it may not be in their rational self interest to join such a monopoly.

Read about why cricket is not in the Olympics. Who does not want China to play cricket? Who is opposed to further associate funding?

There is an elephant in the room. And it is getting bigger. And it wants profits. And it seems to want power.


Edited
6 Years Ago by Paddles
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There is a lot to absorb from your post, Paddles.
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Brew - 6 Nov 2018 2:56 PM
There is a lot to absorb from your post, Paddles.

I know and I am sorry for it.

I am a very passionate cricket supporter and a bit of a nerd. But I understand the infrastructure - that many fans - even if they are more talented players than I was or more qualified cricket analysts than I am  - do not quite get.

I am grateful you read it. Cricket fan ignorance to the structure and the reality of ICC politics really irks me. Because people assume certain things about the structure that were never there, nor intended to be there.

The average cricket fan has no idea nor comprehension how the world game works - nor how to salvage it if they want to protect international cricket.

If cricket goes the way of NBA and Soccer with franchises, I will remain a cricket fan because I love cricket - but its goal to have both international league and franchise league outside of world cups only - is doomed to fail in the long term if the status quo is in operation. This is the reality. Who cares for international basketball when you have the NBA?

For what its worth - my qualifications are a BA major in politics, especially in international political economy (incl normal economics papers) and a LLB (hons) with an LL.M award (that's law). And I am history buff in my spare time for fun. I really do understand what I am talking about.

The more cricket fans who understand the reality - appreciate the reality - can demand whatever the intl fan ACTUALLY wants given the confines of the dilemma. Because anyone paying for PAYTV cricket - anyone buying tickets to games, anyone who spends a dollar on cricket (like me :)) is relevant and deserves a voice - no matter where they are in the world. 

Because ultimately the consumer is the target in this current scheme. But the market will win. So who wants to influence the market the most? Because it is a question of passion and dollars. That is the reality.
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I think Warne comments with one hand on it!

ATM Paine is easily selected as top gloveman for the Tests.
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Keyboard Warrior - 6 Nov 2018 3:40 PM
I think Warne comments with one hand on it! ATM Paine is easily selected as top gloveman for the Tests.

I'd be surprised if he ever took his hand off it.
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Paddles - 6 Nov 2018 3:05 PM
Brew - 6 Nov 2018 2:56 PM

I know and I am sorry for it.

I am a very passionate cricket supporter and a bit of a nerd. But I understand the infrastructure - that many fans - even if they are more talented players than I was or more qualified cricket analysts than I am  - do not quite get.

I am grateful you read it. Cricket fan ignorance to the structure and the reality of ICC politics really irks me. Because people assume certain things about the structure that were never there, nor intended to be there.

The average cricket fan has no idea nor comprehension how the world game works - nor how to salvage it if they want to protect international cricket.

If cricket goes the way of NBA and Soccer with franchises, I will remain a cricket fan because I love cricket - but its goal to have both international league and franchise league outside of world cups only - is doomed to fail in the long term if the status quo is in operation. This is the reality. Who cares for international basketball when you have the NBA?

For what its worth - my qualifications are a BA major in politics, especially in international political economy (incl normal economics papers) and a LLB (hons) with an LL.M award (that's law). And I am history buff in my spare time for fun. I really do understand what I am talking about.

The more cricket fans who understand the reality - appreciate the reality - can demand whatever the intl fan ACTUALLY wants given the confines of the dilemma. Because anyone paying for PAYTV cricket - anyone buying tickets to games, anyone who spends a dollar on cricket (like me :)) is relevant and deserves a voice - no matter where they are in the world. 

Because ultimately the consumer is the target in this current scheme. But the market will win. So who wants to influence the market the most? Because it is a question of passion and dollars. That is the reality.

I reckoned you were an educated man Paddles. 
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Keyboard Warrior - 6 Nov 2018 3:40 PM
I think Warne comments with one hand on it! ATM Paine is easily selected as top gloveman for the Tests.

KW  from what comment did you  post this?
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baggygreenmania - 6 Nov 2018 4:15 PM
Keyboard Warrior - 6 Nov 2018 3:40 PM

KW  from what comment did you  post this?

I've just realised!

Warne has recently stated that Finch should be captain of all three of  the Australian  20/20, ODI and Test teams.
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Keyboard Warrior - 7 Nov 2018 9:53 AM
baggygreenmania - 6 Nov 2018 4:15 PM

I've just realised!

Warne has recently stated that Finch should be captain of all three of  the Australian  20/20, ODI and Test teams.

My comment to that was "of course Warne would say that.. as he is a Victorian". 
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I like this. Not cheesy or sanctimonious.
Player's Pact

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baggygreenmania - 8 Nov 2018 2:46 PM
I like this. Not cheesy or sanctimonious.
Player's Pact

I think it is spot on and absolutely brilliant. I think this and "elite honesty" is just the type of branding and buzzwords that the Australian cricket team needs so as to thrive and play dreamy cricket that gets smilies.
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Shane Warne  suddenly has all the answers to fix Australian cricket.  He usually opens his mouth and nothing comes out. I have to say I like some of his ideas.. namely pay state coaches on a full time basis to nurture our best young players and ensure they learn a correct technique. He also says our international stars should play more Shield cricket plus tour schools to inspire the next gen of players. What good are consultants.. employ Martyn, Clarke or even try getting Steve Waugh as a full time batting coach and bring McGrath home as our bowling coach. Hello Warne this is not rocket science. Those nongs at CA should have been using these initiatives long ago.. then just perhaps Australian cricket would not have degenerated to its present state.
Edited
6 Years Ago by baggygreenmania
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baggygreenmania - 9 Nov 2018 9:23 AM
Shane Warne is suddenly very outspoken over ways to fix our parlous position in world cricket. I like some of his ideas.. namely utilize the talents of past greats Dennis Lillee, Glen McGrath, Michael Clarke and Damien Martyn as consultants. Pay state coaches on a full time basis to nurture our best young players and ensure they learn a correct technique. He also says our international stars should play more Shield cricket plus tour schools to inspire the next gen of players. You are talking sense now Warne instead of your usual verbal diarrhoea.

Ha! Now that cricket is behind a paywall broadcaster (that he works for) - he thinks that the players should tour schools. I notice he is not putting his hand up to tour schools. :P

I agree that the coaches should definitely be paid full-time and working with the rising talent in winter (indoors or somewhere dry).

Lillee and McGrath have worked with Australian bowlers on a consultant basis anyway - even at the MRF foundation in India (set up to train Indian youth talent). Lillee worked a ton with Mitch. I would actually look to someone like Rian Harris as well (myself).

But what is the ACAcademy doing if Warne thinks all these extra consultants are needed? Start playing more winter A tours away. I firmly believe in A tours.


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6 Years Ago by Paddles
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Jason Behrendorff will return to Australian colours later this month for the first time in more than a year having been named in the T20 squad to play South Africa and India.The injury-plagued left-armer has been named alongside fellow quicks Nathan Coulter-Nile, Billy Stanlake and Andrew Tye, while Test and ODI pacemen Mitchell Starc, Josh Hazlewood and Pat Cummins have not been included.

Australia T20 squad:
 
Aaron Finch (c), Alex Carey, Ashton Agar, Jason Behrendorff, Nathan Coulter-Nile, Chris Lynn, Glenn Maxwell, Ben McDermott, D'Arcy Short, Billy Stanlake, Marcus Stoinis, Andrew Tye, Adam Zampa. 

I still have a problem with Lynn, Maxwell and Short in the top order. They are all of the same ilk.. one gear. Where is the cool head should early wickets fall? It may only be 20 overs but there is still room for some consolidation to avoid a low total. Perhaps Stoinis or McDermott. I also wanna see Agar bat up the order.
Edited
6 Years Ago by baggygreenmania
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baggygreenmania - 9 Nov 2018 9:43 AM
Jason Behrendorff will return to Australian colours later this month for the first time in more than a year having been named in the T20 squad to play South Africa and India.The injury-plagued left-armer has been named alongside fellow quicks Nathan Coulter-Nile, Billy Stanlake and Andrew Tye, while Test and ODI pacemen Mitchell Starc, Josh Hazlewood and Pat Cummins have not been included.

Australia T20 squad:
 
Aaron Finch (c), Alex Carey, Ashton Agar, Jason Behrendorff, Nathan Coulter-Nile, Chris Lynn, Glenn Maxwell, Ben McDermott, D'Arcy Short, Billy Stanlake, Marcus Stoinis, Andrew Tye, Adam Zampa. 

I still have a problem with Lynn, Maxwell and Short in the top four. They are all of the same ilk.. one gear. Where is the cool head should early wickets fall? It may only be 20 overs but there is still room for some consolidation to avoid a low total. Perhaps Stoinis.

Stoinis is block block bash. He doesn't rotate the strike much so much as hits a boundary fielder. If teams want to go bash bash bash, they need to bat deep like England do to avoid low totals. India are solely reliant on Rohit or Kohli going big almost every game (these 2 start in a low gear and build up) with Dhawan, Pant, Rahul, Pandya bashing it around them. 

Alex Carey and Darcy Short need to start proving themselves as consistent batsmen.
Edited
6 Years Ago by Paddles
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Paddles - 9 Nov 2018 9:50 AM
baggygreenmania - 9 Nov 2018 9:43 AM

Stoinis is block block bash. He doesn't rotate the strike much so much as hits a boundary fielder. If teams want to go bash bash bash, they need to bat deep like England do to avoid low totals. India are solely reliant on Rohit or Kohli going big almost every game (these 2 start in a low gear and build up) with Dhawan, Pant, Rahul, Pandya bashing it around them. 

Alex Carey and Darcy Short need to start proving themselves as consistent batsmen.

So who is your answer for the consolidation role?
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baggygreenmania - 9 Nov 2018 10:07 AM
Paddles - 9 Nov 2018 9:50 AM
 
So who is your answer for the consolidation role?

For a one off t20 game vs SA?

I couldn't care less :P

The t20 team is meaningless right now - the banned players will be back before the 2020cup in 2020.

But seriously - a one off match? This is a trial game at best. Give McDermott a go.

The answer for the t20 team is Lynn opening with either Warner or Finch at 3. But what will happen is Smith will get selected and block up the overs causing CA to have suffocating run rate problems while the commentators tell the public how great Smith is doing because they cannot comprehend that the greatest test batsman in the world is just not that great at t20. Smith will also bat at 3 or 4 - leaving Lynn or Finch batting at 5 and not having any utility at all. Because, selectors *derp*. 

England has gotten to the point that Joe Root has been dropped from the t20 side. NZ media has all sorts of pressure on KW in t20 as well.

D'arcy Short is providing a real headache. Is he a high quality player or not? Is he the next Morgan, Guptill and Rohit Sharma who prefer and are better at white ball - or does he in fact not belong in any international cricket? Because his FC average of 23 is very low. Very very low. And he seems to have very limited ability against spinners (outside of the UAE team).
Edited
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Paddles - 9 Nov 2018 10:16 AM
baggygreenmania - 9 Nov 2018 10:07 AM

For a one off t20 game vs SA?

I couldn't care less :P

The t20 team is meaningless right now - the banned players will be back before the 2020cup in 2020.

But seriously - a one off match? This is a trial game at best.

The answer for the t20 team is Lynn opening with either Warner or Finch at 3. But what will happen is Smith will get selected and block up the overs causing CA to have suffocating run rate problems while the commentators tell the public how great Smith is doing because they cannot comprehend that the greatest test batsman in the world is just not that great at t20. Smith will also bat at 3 or 4 - leaving Lynn or Finch batting at 5 and not having any utility at all. Because, selectors *derp*. 

England has gotten to the point that Joe Root has been dropped from the t20 side. NZ media has all sorts of pressure on KW in t20 as well.

D'arcy Short is providing a real headache. Is he a high quality player or not?

Im talking about long term. I agree Smith may well be the worlds best red ball batsman.. and he is among the best accumulators in the 50 over game.. but when it comes to the faster pace of forcing runs in T20  he loses his shape and looks uncomfortable. Agree Lynn must open and be given free licence. I also wanna see Agar given a shot up the order .. perhaps also open. This bloke is one of the sweetest strikers of a cricket ball there is.

No Short is not a hi quality player.. a fabulous flat track bully tho. Suited to T20.
Edited
6 Years Ago by baggygreenmania
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baggygreenmania - 9 Nov 2018 10:43 AM
Paddles - 9 Nov 2018 10:16 AM



Im talking about long term. I agree Smith may well be the worlds best red ball batsman.. and he is among the best consolidators in the 50 over game.. but when it comes to the faster pace of forcing runs in T20  he loses his shape and looks uncomfortable. Agree Lynn must open and be given free licence. I also wanna see Agar given a shot up the order .. perhaps also open. This bloke is one of the sweetest strikers of a cricket ball there is.

No Short is not a hi quality player.. a fabulous flat track bully tho. Suited to T20.

Then CA needs to cut him loose now. He stealing the place of someone like McDermott who may be much more valuable to develop.

I'm happy for you to say Smith is the best test batsman. But he is not among the best consolidators in the 50 over game. His away record is particularly dire. 

I do not buy into the ODI team's problems being Smith's ban. At all. The ODI team problems were patently obvious to me at the Champs Trophy, then in India, then when England won in Australia. Smith played in all these series.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/267192.html?class=2;template=results;type=batting

Australians loved to sledge Watto, but he was an ATG ODI player. He really really was. Aus needs a new Watto. The runs, the wickets, the centuries. Just solved so many in-game problems. And Aus need someone like an in-form Faulkner, who bowls 10 including the death, and bats and blazes at 8. These 2 holes, CA has not remedied. But they're so used to team selection around them. And Aus is now paying the price for this. And was paying for it when and before Smith and Warner's bans.



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Paddles - 9 Nov 2018 10:47 AM
baggygreenmania - 9 Nov 2018 10:43 AM

Then CA needs to cut him loose now. He stealing the place of someone like McDermott who may be much more valuable to develop.

I'm happy for you to say Smith is the best test batsman. But he is not among the best consolidators in the 50 over game. His away record is particularly dire. 

I do not buy into the ODI team's problems being Smith's ban. At all. The ODI team problems were patently obvious to me at the Champs Trophy, then in India, then when England won in Australia. Smith played in all these series.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/267192.html?class=2;template=results;type=batting

England record may be dire but his averages in other countries are very acceptable. He is a fine consolidator.  Many a time.. mostly here in OZ he has salvaged a dire start by our flat trackers. He has never been a forcer of the ball. Even as far back as when he was dumped from our Test side.. if not mistaken.. he still played ODI. George Bailey is our best ever 50 over player imho.
Edited
6 Years Ago by baggygreenmania
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baggygreenmania - 9 Nov 2018 11:04 AM
Paddles - 9 Nov 2018 10:47 AM
 
England record may be dire but his averages in other countries are very acceptable. He is a fine accumulator when the chips are down.  Perhaps I should use term consolidator. Many a time.. mostly here in OZ he has salvaged a dire start by our flat trackers. Even as far back as when he was dumped from our Test side.. if not mistaken.. he still played ODI. George Bailey is our best ever 50 over player imho.

His away record is terrible. Not acceptable. Bare in mind 300 is commonplace in this era. Warner from 2015 - 17 averaged close to 60 at over 100 SR

Smith Overall Away - Ave 28 at 76. Not acceptable.India ave 28 at 84. Not acceptable. NZ - 11.25 at 60. SL - 32 at 70.Zimbabwe 19 at 80. Bangladesh 3 at 50. England starts looking okay at 33 at 81.

His record is Australia is an impressive 53 at 93. But he is really going along at about SR 85 in the number 3 spot.

Bailey best ever? Big call. I'll take Mark Waugh, Punter, Deano, Watto and Symonds ahead of him.

Anyway - my point is - Smith does not return to the ODI team and solve the problems. And if he's making the t20 team, there's problems. Smith definitely heals the test team a lot, though.



Edited
6 Years Ago by Paddles
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baggygreenmania - 9 Nov 2018 9:23 AM
Shane Warne  suddenly has all the answers to fix Australian cricket.  He usually opens his mouth and nothing comes out. I have to say I like some of his ideas.. namely pay state coaches on a full time basis to nurture our best young players and ensure they learn a correct technique. He also says our international stars should play more Shield cricket plus tour schools to inspire the next gen of players. What good are consultants.. employ Martyn, Clarke or even try getting Steve Waugh as a full time batting coach and bring McGrath home as our bowling coach. Hello Warne this is not rocket science. Those nongs at CA should have been using these initiatives long ago.. then just perhaps Australian cricket would not have degenerated to its present state.

I'm just wondering if all these ex players also make good coaches?

Are they trained to analyse  and coach others? Some do this a lot better than others.

However, I am worried dickheads with no knowledge of cricket, like ex Rio Tinto executive, Peever, renowned for abusing people, have done a fair bit of damage to the game in his  role with CA. He is trained in maximising profits, not creating a strong cricket structure which assists performance.
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For those that think nothing is being done to improve Australia's humiliating records in India, Sri Lanka and other sub continental places.. Take note. Early this year the NCC hosted a Spin Camp for Australia's most promising tweakers as the key element for CA's push to produce more high-quality slow bowlers – and batsmen capable of prospering in turning conditions...specially in Asia 

The week long camp was centred specially built on subcontinent-style pitches, simulating different training and match situations with specialist spin-bowling panels overseeing the camp. . Among the attendees were four 2018 National Performance Squad members.. Michael Cormack, Daniel Fallins, Param Uppal and Mac Wright.

“We want to build a really strong spin culture,” National Performance Squad head coach Troy Cooley said at the start of the week long camp..

“The game has changed for spinners, and over the last few years at the NCC we have had a huge shift to ensure spin bowling takes it rightful place in the skill component of our program.

"This is on the back of Australia wanting to dominate and win overseas at the top level, where the spinning ball can play a big part" 
https://www.cricket.com.au/~/media/42F45795A59E4D12B1802F7846030C0C.ashx
https://www.cricket.com.au/~/media/6EBE524FCD9C404AB3BFAF4643323CB5.ashx
Spin Camp: Thomas Engelbrecht, Ben Taylor (ACT); Daniel Fallins*, Devlin Malone, Arjun Nair, Jason Sangha, Param Uppal* (NSW); Hamish Martin, Dylan Mullen (N T); Mitchell Connolly, Matthew Kuhnemann, Harrison Macoun, Mitch Swepson (QLD); Tom Andrews, Michael Cormack*, Thomas O’Connell, Lloyd Pope (S A); Jarrod Freeman, Beau Webster, Mac Wright* (Tasmania); Liam Bowe, Sam Grimwade, (VIC); Ashton Agar, Kyle Gardiner, D’Arcy Short (WA).

I have a question CA. Why was this not done a decade ago?  I say make this a bi-annual event and for a longer duration. For goodness sake plant one of these Indian-like decks into a ground for an actual match scenario.

Comments.



Edited
6 Years Ago by baggygreenmania
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baggygreenmania - 10 Nov 2018 10:38 AM

For those that think nothing is being done to improve Australia's humiliating records in India, Sri Lanka and other sub continental places.. Take note. Early this year the NCC hosted a Spin Camp for Australia's most promising tweakers as the key element for CA's push to produce more high-quality slow bowlers – and batsmen capable of prospering in turning conditions...specially in Asia 

The week long camp was centred specially built on subcontinent-style pitches, simulating different training and match situations with specialist spin-bowling panels overseeing the camp. . Among the attendees were four 2018 National Performance Squad members.. Michael Cormack, Daniel Fallins, Param Uppal and Mac Wright.

“We want to build a really strong spin culture,” National Performance Squad head coach Troy Cooley said at the start of the week long camp..

“The game has changed for spinners, and over the last few years at the NCC we have had a huge shift to ensure spin bowling takes it rightful place in the skill component of our program.

"This is on the back of Australia wanting to dominate and win overseas at the top level, where the spinning ball can play a big part" 
https://www.cricket.com.au/~/media/42F45795A59E4D12B1802F7846030C0C.ashx
https://www.cricket.com.au/~/media/6EBE524FCD9C404AB3BFAF4643323CB5.ashx
Spin Camp: Thomas Engelbrecht, Ben Taylor (ACT); Daniel Fallins*, Devlin Malone, Arjun Nair, Jason Sangha, Param Uppal* (NSW); Hamish Martin, Dylan Mullen (N T); Mitchell Connolly, Matthew Kuhnemann, Harrison Macoun, Mitch Swepson (QLD); Tom Andrews, Michael Cormack*, Thomas O’Connell, Lloyd Pope (S A); Jarrod Freeman, Beau Webster, Mac Wright* (Tasmania); Liam Bowe, Sam Grimwade, (VIC); Ashton Agar, Kyle Gardiner, D’Arcy Short (WA).

I have a question CA. Why was this not done a decade ago?  I say make this a bi-annual event and for a longer duration. For goodness sake plant one of these Indian-like decks into a ground for an actual match scenario.

Comments.



That Queensland dustbowl was used extensively in preparation for the last India tour.

Check out what these Aussies at the ICC decided to build with the ICC dosh.

Tony Hemming (curator at new Perth stadium) and Rod Marsh with Mal Speed (former ICC CEO) were the brains behind it. (All Australian). 

http://www.iccacademy.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/ICC-A-3d-model.png

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/sports/cricket/news/icc-academy-opening-doors-to-crickets-next-generation/articleshow/62844646.cms?utm_source=contentofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst



Edited
6 Years Ago by Paddles
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Keyboard Warrior - 9 Nov 2018 11:47 PM
baggygreenmania - 9 Nov 2018 9:23 AM

I'm just wondering if all these ex players also make good coaches?

Are they trained to analyse  and coach others? Some do this a lot better than others.

However, I am worried dickheads with no knowledge of cricket, like ex Rio Tinto executive, Peever, renowned for abusing people, have done a fair bit of damage to the game in his  role with CA. He is trained in maximising profits, not creating a strong cricket structure which assists performance.

Ok KW what is the difference between a consultant and a coach? Does Paddles know? Lets just say in this rebuilding stage we need the influence of some of our greats on the younger members of our side as well as emerging  players.  Imagine the impression the great Glenn McGrath would have on a young quick or the man with arguably the strongest mental stamina of any batsman to have played the game in Steve Waugh. What inspiration these kids would garner from actually seeing these two greats bowling and batting in the nets and hearing about their exploits as master Test cricketers. 
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baggygreenmania - 10 Nov 2018 11:40 AM
Keyboard Warrior - 9 Nov 2018 11:47 PM



Ok KW what is the difference between a consultant and a coach? Does Paddles know? Lets just say in this rebuilding stage we need the influence of some of our greats on the younger members of our side as well as emerging  players.  Imagine the impression the great Glenn McGrath would have on a young quick or the man with arguably the strongest mental stamina of any batsman to have played the game in Steve Waugh. What inspiration these kids would garner from actually seeing these two greats bowling and batting in the nets and hearing about their exploits as master Test cricketers. 

Consultant is part time on a massive hourly rate. Coach is more typically a full time position.

McGrath is doing coaching. He took over from Lillee at the MRF pace foundation (one month a year all up I believe) - I think he is involved as a consultant at the ACA as well.

If you want to teach stamina, then practice stamina. Chuck them in the nets for 6 hours.

While pace can be taught, swing can be taught, and spin as well after Steve Smith - there was a philosophy of not meddling with batsman techniques too much cos an awkward could be successful. I mean at some point everyone knows the basics of body movement to shot trajectory. 

I really don't think you need to get all the former elites in to teach these kids. All they need is some former FC (if that) players prepared to work the bowling machine and sharpen them up. Invest time and engery in their development. That gets them ready for Australia. To get them ready for England and Asia, start sending them to league cricket in England in the off season, and organise some India junior and A tours. Shield already has the Dukes, I am sure Hobart with a Dukes is very unpleasant for the batsmen, and very much like England.

I think long term there is going to be far more horses for courses selection going on. I think Kohli will lead the charge, and England will follow suit. Then it will start catching on. There will be the swing attack and swing batsmen for England, the pace attack and pace batsmen for Australia, and the spin attack and spin batsmen for Asia. England has a massive problem with Keaton Jennings for example, he sucks against swing. Big problem playing for England. But he may just be their best batsmen for Asian conditions. I foresee regional specialist batsman being a thing in the next 10 years.
Edited
6 Years Ago by Paddles
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Paddles - 10 Nov 2018 11:39 AM
baggygreenmania - 10 Nov 2018 10:38 AM

That Queensland dustbowl was used extensively in preparation for the last India tour.

Check out what these Aussies at the ICC decided to build with the ICC dosh.

Tony Hemming (curator at new Perth stadium) and Rod Marsh with Mal Speed (former ICC CEO) were the brains behind it. (All Australian). 

http://www.iccacademy.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/ICC-A-3d-model.png">

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/sports/cricket/news/icc-academy-opening-doors-to-crickets-next-generation/articleshow/62844646.cms?utm_source=contentofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst



Used extensively on a training basis only. I still maintain and so do several former players that the pitches should be actually planted into the middle of  Allan Border Field so an actual game scenario can take place. You can train on these pitches for so long. Playing an actually game on one surely is far more beneficial.
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Paddles - 10 Nov 2018 11:43 AM
baggygreenmania - 10 Nov 2018 11:40 AM

Consultant is part time on a massive hourly rate. Coach is more typically a full time position.

McGrath is doing coaching. He took over from Lillee at the MRF pace foundation (one month a year all up I believe) - I think he is involved as a consultant at the ACA as well.

If you want to teach stamina, then practice stamina. Chuck them in the nets for 6 hours.

While pace can be taught, swing can be taugh, and spin as well after Steve Smith - there was a philosophy of not meddling with batsman techniques too much cos an awkward could be successful. 

I really don't think you need to get all the former elites in to teach these kids. All they need is some former FC (if that) player prepared to work the bowling machine and sharpen them up. That gets them ready for Australia. To get them ready for England and Asia, start sending them to league cricket in England in the off season, and organise some India junior and A tours.

We all know where McGrath is.. teaching future Indian Test bowlers. He should be home imparting his skills and massive experience on our young quicks. Yes that is pie in the sky thinking as I suppose he is paid twice what CA would be prepared to pay him. 
Our best young kids used to be sent to play league cricket in England.. not so sure they are now. Good idea. Hope the new honchos at CA have some more good ideas such as scheduling more reciprocal A and U19 tours. There was one good thing the old CA did..that is send our best under 17s to play in comps in sub continental countries. I applaud them for that. These sorts of initiatives need to be maintained.

Yes chuck em in the nets and pound them with balls from the bowling machine for hours on end. Our greats all learned technique and stamina doing this. If it is not done today then why not?. 
Edited
6 Years Ago by baggygreenmania
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baggygreenmania - 10 Nov 2018 12:03 PM
Paddles - 10 Nov 2018 11:43 AM

We all know where McGrath is.. teaching future Indian Test bowlers. He should be home imparting his skills and massive experience on our young quicks. Yes that is pie in the sky thinking as I suppose he is paid twice what CA would be prepared to pay him. 
Our best young kids used to be sent to play league cricket in England.. not so sure they are now. Good idea. Hope the new honchos at CA have some more good ideas such as scheduling more reciprocal A and U19 tours. There was one good thing the old CA did..that is send our best under 17s to play in comps in sub continental countries. I applaud them for that. These sorts of initiatives need to be maintained.

To be fair, Dennis did train Glen, Mitch J and Binga at the MRF :P

I believe Australian early talent processes are in excellent shape. The pathways are there, and it is a well cashed up infrastructure. They have the ACA 50 over team. They have the ACA. Everything that could be done is being done. One of the big problems for the kids is this:

Education for if the pro-career does not eventuate. So they could go off for League cricket, gamble a few years, then be 22, uneducated and still no state contract. NZ and Aus are blessed in that one can get through University and still be available for almost all of the cricket season domestically.

Now this may be less of an issue for some, I understand Steve Smith left school high school early to be pro-cricketer, think Beefy did as well. But for many - it is a huge issue.



Edited
6 Years Ago by Paddles
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Paddles - 10 Nov 2018 12:09 PM
baggygreenmania - 10 Nov 2018 12:03 PM

To be fair, Dennis did train Glen, Mitch J and Binga at the MRF :P

I believe Australian early talent processes are in excellent shape. The pathways are there, and it is a well cashed up infrastructure. They have the ACA 50 over team. Everything that could be done is being done. One of the big problems for the kids is this:

Education for if the pro-career does not eventuate. So they could go off for League cricket, gamble a few years, then be 22, uneducated and still no state contract. NZ and Aus are blessed in that one can get through University and still be available for almost all of the cricket season domestically.



Do you know of any Kiwis that have been trained at this ICC Academy. I know of no Australians. Is it only for cashed up parents of Asian kids?
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